Episode 140

The absolute best authority builder for any Personal Brand Business Owner | Chris Ducker

I do wonder how many business owners find themselves where I've been, feeling like they're working hard and doing all the things they see industry leaders doing but not experiencing even a fraction of their success? They're burning rubber with the wheels spinning and have barely crossed the start line, let alone the finish line.

I first encountered my guest today through Pat Flynn's YouTube channel. Pat is someone I've been following for a long time and this guest said that you can't expect people to take you seriously in business if you don't have anything they can buy on your website. It was a wake-up call for me and the start of my learning from someone who has now become a business mentor and a friend. His name is Chris Ducker and he's the author of several best selling books including Virtual Freedom and Rise of the YouPreneur.

In this episode:

  • Chris' biggest influence builder
  • Why most entrepreneurs are starting in the wrong place
  • How to level up your business
  • The damage done by shortcuts
  • Why Chris started a podcast
  • The power of being prepared and more...

This is an unmissable episode if you are in business yourself, especially if you're not taking off and feeling frustrated. Chris gave several book recommendations on the show:

  1. Zig Ziglar's See you at the top https://amzn.to/3LGNyAI
  2. Gary Vaynerchuck's Crush It https://amzn.to/3y2U0y5 and
  3. Rocket Fuel by Gino Wickman and Mark Winters https://amzn.to/3vs9g65

You can find out more about Chris, his books, the incubator program, his round table, podcast and more from his website https://www.chrisducker.com/coaching and he's always happy to connect with people on social media. Let us know what your takeaways have been from this episode of Speaking Influence.

Are you wondering if a podcast is the right move for your business or whether there are other ways to leverage podcasting beyond having a show then we should talk? Book a free 15-minute discovery call with me https://calendly.com/presentinfluence/15-discover-coaching and let's get the power of podcasts working for you.

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Mentioned in this episode:

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Transcript
Johnny:

Welcome to the show.

Johnny:

My name is Johnny Ball.

Johnny:

This is speaking influence.

Johnny:

For now, anyway, I'll tell you more about that a bit later on.

Johnny:

This is the show where we delve into the world of influence and persuasion

Johnny:

to help you build your professional authority and to become a more

Johnny:

powerfully persuasive communicator.

Johnny:

And maybe on the way, learn some of the skills to help defend ourselves against

Johnny:

the misuse of the tools of influence and persuasion in life and in business.

Johnny:

Each week on the show, I have conversations with people from all

Johnny:

sorts of different industries, like the personal and professional development

Johnny:

world, public speakers, other podcasters, marketers, branding experts, neuroscience

Johnny:

experts, and much more besides.

Johnny:

This show is to help you develop all the tools that you will need to be able to be

Johnny:

effective with influence and persuasion in your professional life, and maybe

Johnny:

even in your personal life as well.

Johnny:

My guest on the show today is one of my own personal business heroes

Johnny:

and is actually a mentor of mine.

Johnny:

Someone who I spend a lot of time learning from.

Johnny:

And if you haven't already come across Chris Ducker before, by the end of this,

Johnny:

you are undoubtedly going to want to check out more about Chris and what he can

Johnny:

potentially do for you and your business.

Johnny:

Now, I know Chris, as an author, as a speaker, as a podcast, as a

Johnny:

course creator, as somebody who has built an amazing professional

Johnny:

ecosystem and product system, and is teaching other people to do the same.

Johnny:

In fact, I'm one of those people who he is teaching, and we

Johnny:

will talk about some of that.

Johnny:

And we, these probably start off with me fan-girling a little bit over

Johnny:

Chris, because he is a really cool guy and I was super happy that he agreed

Johnny:

to come and be a guest on the show.

Johnny:

One of the things that was really special for me, which I unfortunately can't share

Johnny:

with you is the conversation that Chris and I had after we finished recording,

Johnny:

which was a testament to me, of how much Chris really gives to the people who

Johnny:

he's helping and how much he really cares about wanting to make a difference and

Johnny:

helping entrepreneurs like you and I.

Johnny:

To be able to build sustainable businesses that are profitable, helping making

Johnny:

an impact and making a difference and

Johnny:

not just spinning our wheels at the start line.

Johnny:

Think so many people end up doing and often not really

Johnny:

getting anywhere and succeeding.

Johnny:

So this show really is going to be all about building your

Johnny:

influence as a business owner.

Johnny:

And we're going to be talking with Chris about what he has found to be

Johnny:

some of the most effective ways to do that as someone who has seemingly

Johnny:

done all of these different areas of influence and persuasion and

Johnny:

done them all incredibly well.

Johnny:

So whether you're listening to this show on the go, or you're sitting

Johnny:

down to take notes, all that remains for me to say is enjoy the show.

Johnny:

I always think we should have a mentor, right?

Johnny:

And today I get to introduce you to one of mine, someone who is an incredible

Johnny:

teacher, someone who I have been learning and progressing through because, and

Johnny:

who I still very much enjoy working with and connecting with just last week,

Johnny:

had the most amazing one day event.

Johnny:

Let me introduce to you.

Johnny:

And to anyone is listening, Chris Ducker.

Chris Ducker:

Hello, sir.

Johnny:

I'm super happy to be talking to you, Chris.

Johnny:

I'm a big fan, of course, as I need to be, being part of your incubator community.

Johnny:

But the reality is for me, that's just before we really get into it.

Johnny:

I first really got came to with you.

Johnny:

I saw you for the first time on a video with Pat Flynn,

Johnny:

who I've been following for a very long time.

Johnny:

And on that video, you just said something that really impacted me about if you don't

Johnny:

have something for sale on your website.

Johnny:

How can you expect people to take you seriously?

Chris Ducker:

Yeah.

Johnny:

and, and I was just watching that thinking, oh my, Yeah.

Johnny:

that makes a lot of sense.

Johnny:

And I started following you a lot more.

Johnny:

Then I read your book.

Johnny:

And then I, of course I got into your incubator community.

Johnny:

In fact, even just connecting with your online, I was convinced when I

Johnny:

was speaking to you that it was a bot or someone in your office, and then I

Johnny:

realized it was actually was speaking to

Johnny:

you and it's like, oh man, that's amazing.

Johnny:

The whole journey into coming into working with you.

Chris Ducker:

Well, I appreciate all those kind words, dude.

Chris Ducker:

And yeah, I mean, Pat.

Chris Ducker:

And I have known each other for a long, long, long time on me while

Chris Ducker:

over a decade of friends now.

Chris Ducker:

And he's actually godfather to my little girl, Cassandra and you know,

Chris Ducker:

It's very interesting because when Pat and I first kind of got to know

Chris Ducker:

each other, he was the freebie guy.

Chris Ducker:

He was giving everything away for free like the literally everything.

Chris Ducker:

And I used to just beat him up, like just beat him up about it verbally.

Chris Ducker:

And eventually he sort of, You know, doing more and more affiliate marketing, and

Chris Ducker:

then he got into courses and then he got into speaking and then he got into running

Chris Ducker:

events with me as well as on his own.

Chris Ducker:

And he's the perfect example of somebody who, understands the power of the personal

Chris Ducker:

brand, understands the importance of being respected and having a strong

Chris Ducker:

reputation, but also understanding the opportunity that if you don't monetize

Chris Ducker:

itin a proper way then not only will you not really be taken all that much

Chris Ducker:

seriously, but also you're kind of letting yourself down as well as the other people

Chris Ducker:

that are within your ecosystem within your community that do want to invest

Chris Ducker:

in themselves to be able to spring board their own growth based on your experience.

Chris Ducker:

Right.

Chris Ducker:

And that's really what fires me up more than anything about anything

Chris Ducker:

else about this whole situation.

Chris Ducker:

When we talk about mentors and coaching and personal branding and

Chris Ducker:

things like that, that we're in a position right now where people are

Chris Ducker:

investing way more in themselves than they ever have done before.

Chris Ducker:

And.

Chris Ducker:

The vast majority of people are doing it because they want to go further, faster.

Chris Ducker:

It's that simple?

Chris Ducker:

I didn't have a mentor when I was, 30, 32, 33, 35 even.

Chris Ducker:

But I know that, looking back, yeah.

Chris Ducker:

I had people that would take mentorship roles for me, but.

Chris Ducker:

It wasn't a transactional relationship.

Chris Ducker:

It wasn't a long-term relationship.

Chris Ducker:

There was no real accountability built in, in any way whatsoever.

Chris Ducker:

And so for me, that's where the power of working with mentors and coaches

Chris Ducker:

is, is that you can ultimately.

Chris Ducker:

Really move much faster in terms of everything you want to achieve, because

Chris Ducker:

they've already been there and done that and they can help you avoid those potholes

Chris Ducker:

and focus on kind of doing the things that you need to be doing rather than the

Chris Ducker:

things you think you might have to do.

Johnny:

Yeah, I, I can attest to that since joining your incubator community,

Johnny:

my progress has been rocketing and I've

Chris Ducker:

Dude, you're crushing it, man.

Chris Ducker:

You serious don't hold back like you are.

Chris Ducker:

You're doing your it's night and day compared to when you joined up night

Johnny:

yeah, totally, totally.

Johnny:

I think you, I feel like I know where I'm going and I'm on the path,

Johnny:

but also that's one of the things that you did, which we'll come to.

Johnny:

I think we'll hopefully get to touch on a bit later about laying out that path to.

Johnny:

Making it happen because I think so we get lost in the weeds

Johnny:

when we're starting out with businesses.

Johnny:

Certainly one of the reasons why I was so excited to have you on the show.

Johnny:

Isn't just because I've learned so much from you even just in that, I think

Johnny:

it's probably only about 12 months learning from maybe even less than that.

Johnny:

But but not just because of that, but because you are probably one of the few

Johnny:

people who are having on the show who

Johnny:

really has been in involved in pretty much all of the areas of

Johnny:

influence and persuasion that I generally like to talk about.

Johnny:

Like public speaking, like writing books, like podcasting, and I'm going to run out

Johnny:

of breath before I finish that sentence.

Johnny:

But that's one of the reasons why I really, really want to speak to you.

Johnny:

I think you have a bigger view picture than probably many people do who, who

Johnny:

have been on for more, more specialist.

Johnny:

It's like people coming to talk specifically about public speaking

Johnny:

or talk specifically about the books, whereas with you, I think we can.

Johnny:

Probably encompass a lot of that as well.

Johnny:

You're certainly someone who I look up to in terms of business

Johnny:

or learning from, I look forward to continuing to learn from you.

Johnny:

Who is someone for you though, in terms of influence and persuasion, who

Johnny:

you would say you look up to and for how they've utilized their influence.

Chris Ducker:

Oh man.

Chris Ducker:

So many great people.

Chris Ducker:

I think it's interesting.

Chris Ducker:

The one person, whenever I get asked that sort of type of question, the

Chris Ducker:

one person that just instantly comes into my mind and I do mean quite

Chris Ducker:

literally instantly is Zig Ziglar.

Chris Ducker:

Which is pretty amazing, cause I never met Zig at all.

Chris Ducker:

But there's something about the way and I've been, I've been listening to Z.

Chris Ducker:

Since I was like 15 years old, I used to get his audio tapes at the library.

Chris Ducker:

And there's something about the way that he would string his words together.

Chris Ducker:

I mean, it was incredible public speaker, incredible trainer of sales people.

Chris Ducker:

And when I left school and I started my sales career I instantly kind of went

Chris Ducker:

back to, you know, to read, See You At The Top and all those other great Zig books.

Chris Ducker:

And for me, it it's just something about his teaching and the way he taught.

Chris Ducker:

That I've always connected with the stories that he tells the, the lessons

Chris Ducker:

that are embedded in the stories as well.

Chris Ducker:

Like he would see those lessons so well inside of the stories that it

Chris Ducker:

was almost impossible for you to not sit up and pay attention to it.

Chris Ducker:

And if anybody's watching or listening this and they haven't consumed

Chris Ducker:

some Zig Ziglar, Either audio or video, go to YouTube, Google his

Chris Ducker:

name and just watch a video or two you'll know what I'm talking about.

Chris Ducker:

And even now it's impossible for me to read a Zig book and

Chris Ducker:

not hear his voice in my head.

Chris Ducker:

They kind of, you know, that American accident and he does

Chris Ducker:

the whole thing with his voice.

Chris Ducker:

I'm just like, I love Zig Ziglar, man.

Chris Ducker:

Bruce Lee has been another massive inspiration for me.

Chris Ducker:

I discovered Bruce in the.

Chris Ducker:

Of 85, 86.

Chris Ducker:

I was around a friend's place and his dad had an old beta max video.

Chris Ducker:

There you go.

Chris Ducker:

Show my age now.

Chris Ducker:

Betamax video of enter the dragon and I must have watched that

Chris Ducker:

film 20 times at summer holidays.

Chris Ducker:

I just fell in love.

Chris Ducker:

And so, you know, what a lot of people don't know about Bruce is that he was a

Chris Ducker:

lot more than just a Kung Fu movie star.

Chris Ducker:

He was a big time philosopher.

Chris Ducker:

He was a philosophy major at university of Washington.

Chris Ducker:

And he was just an incredibly inspiring guy.

Chris Ducker:

And if you read anything that he put out, you realize he was a lot

Chris Ducker:

more than just kicks and punches.

Chris Ducker:

And so, I got back to those two guys pretty regularly.

Chris Ducker:

If I feel like I'm struggling a little bit, or if I feel like I need a bit of a

Chris Ducker:

kick up the pants, or if I need to kind of just double check on how I'm doing

Chris Ducker:

or why I'm doing certain things, one of those two guys will usually tick a box

Chris Ducker:

for me.

Chris Ducker:

Now bringing it to kind of like present day.

Chris Ducker:

I'm very lucky to have a lot of very, very good friends who are

Chris Ducker:

also ridiculously successful people.

Chris Ducker:

Dan Miller, 48 days fame has been a long-time mentor of mine, Michael

Chris Ducker:

Hyatt you know, even people like Carrie Wilkerson who, you know,

Chris Ducker:

who was The Barefoot Executive.

Chris Ducker:

I stalked Carrie online when I first got active online for years.

Johnny:

So you should be admitting to that on a podcast.

Johnny:

Chris.

Chris Ducker:

Yeah.

Chris Ducker:

Yeah.

Chris Ducker:

Well, I mean, she knows we've become, I mean, we're like brother and sister

Chris Ducker:

now, so we've become very, very close and you know, over the years she has,

Chris Ducker:

there's something about that mama bear approach that she takes to helping

Chris Ducker:

people that I just really resonate with.

Chris Ducker:

She's super smart.

Chris Ducker:

Super just full of empathy and knows when to shut up and just listen.

Chris Ducker:

And I think that's a big part of coaching and mentoring as well.

Chris Ducker:

So yeah, I'm blessed, man.

Chris Ducker:

I've got a lot of great friends, great mentors and coaches that I've learned

Chris Ducker:

from and continue to learn from for sure.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

I mean, on a, on a personal, I think Carrie and many of the people who have

Johnny:

been introduced to through your community has just been phenomenal people who

Johnny:

I'm so happy to now know about and

Johnny:

be connected with, because I learned so much from them as well.

Johnny:

We can, I think we can pretty much judge people by the company we keep.

Johnny:

Right.

Johnny:

And

Johnny:

you keep, you keep some UK some pretty, some pretty top company

Johnny:

Chris I have to tell you that and say, maybe we go from that.

Johnny:

I mean, in terms of your own business life, what, what really moves you

Johnny:

to want to do the work that you do?

Chris Ducker:

People winning.

Chris Ducker:

That's what I want.

Chris Ducker:

I don't ex I don't expect anything of my clients actually, other than them

Chris Ducker:

just doing the work, that's it like, I don't, I don't expect, although,

Chris Ducker:

you know, every August when it's my birthday and every Christmas, I get great

Chris Ducker:

gifts from people, which is amazing.

Chris Ducker:

One of the best gifts I ever had actually was a signed

Chris Ducker:

vinyl, a record of one of Zig Ziglar's seminars from like

Chris Ducker:

the sixties or seventies.

Chris Ducker:

Or so.

Chris Ducker:

.And it was actually signed to George, see you at the top Zig Ziglar.

Chris Ducker:

I'm like, well, I'm not George, but I'll, I'll take the gift.

Chris Ducker:

That's phenomenal you know, so little things like that, bottles

Chris Ducker:

of whiskey I get, cause I'm a whiskey and bourbon collector.

Chris Ducker:

I get lots of cool whiskey and you know, all of that to one side, what I

Chris Ducker:

want my clients to do yourself included is for you to follow the path is to

Chris Ducker:

not try and deviate away from that.

Chris Ducker:

And to genuinely, just take it one step at a time and not try and

Chris Ducker:

do too many things all at once.

Chris Ducker:

I often say that, as you know, we work on 90 day sprints, right?

Chris Ducker:

So every 90 days we come together at our intensive event and we look at

Chris Ducker:

what's happened in the last 90 days.

Chris Ducker:

We learned something new.

Chris Ducker:

We listened to lots of cool people, and then we plan for the next 90 days.

Chris Ducker:

Well, that, that planning it's super important.

Chris Ducker:

In fact, I'm anything you could dump the rest of it and just focus on that

Chris Ducker:

last hour that we spend with each other,

Chris Ducker:

and you still get plenty because if we don't work our plan and we can't

Chris Ducker:

get, or rather if we don't plan the work, we can't work the plan.

Chris Ducker:

Right.

Chris Ducker:

That's important if it doesn't get scheduled, it doesn't get done.

Chris Ducker:

And so when I look at that 90 day plan, if you have any more than like

Chris Ducker:

two things on that plan in the next 90 days, There's only one reason

Chris Ducker:

that I won't pull you up on it.

Chris Ducker:

And that is that if you've got a team in place, right.

Chris Ducker:

If you've got a VA or a bunch of VA's or a bunch of team members

Chris Ducker:

that can help you execute on those individual tasks, then that's great.

Chris Ducker:

Have as many as you want on there.

Chris Ducker:

But if you're a one man band or maybe you just, you're a solopreneur and you've

Chris Ducker:

got maybe one VA full-time, you've got to look at where you're spending your time.

Chris Ducker:

And so I just want people to do the work, man, and, and by the

Chris Ducker:

way, if you don't do the work.

Chris Ducker:

And you don't get the success.

Chris Ducker:

You can't blame me as your coach is I've given you everything, right?

Chris Ducker:

I've given you everything you need.

Chris Ducker:

You need to just go ahead and put your foot down on the gas and make it happen.

Chris Ducker:

And so that's what drives me.

Chris Ducker:

That's what drives me whenever I'm putting training content together.

Chris Ducker:

Whenever I show up live to do a training call or when I'm on stage, or even

Chris Ducker:

when I'm being interviewed like this, like, I just want people to understand

Chris Ducker:

the importance of taking action and not BS ing themselves about it.

Chris Ducker:

It ain't going to fall in your lap.

Chris Ducker:

There's not a leprechaun.

Chris Ducker:

That's going to turn up with a pot of gold for you.

Chris Ducker:

You need to get up every day.

Chris Ducker:

You need to put your big boy pants on and you need to get to work.

Chris Ducker:

It's really that simple, you know?

Chris Ducker:

Yeah.

Johnny:

But many of the things that you've done on your journey have created a

Johnny:

level of influence that you're right now, where a lot of people know who you are or

Johnny:

people would have encountered your book.

Johnny:

A lot of people may be listened to their Youpreneur podcast.

Johnny:

They have some connection with you.

Johnny:

Maybe they're maybe they're in one of your Facebook communities.

Johnny:

Of all the things that aren't, you've done on your journey in terms of

Johnny:

building that level of influence, what do you feel has been the most effective

Johnny:

for you, or what's really been the most bang for your buck in terms of

Johnny:

where you put your time and energy?

Chris Ducker:

I think probably my books, if I, if I had to put out

Chris Ducker:

a big, just one thing out of all those things, probably the books.

Chris Ducker:

Because if you look at everything else, like the podcast is

Chris Ducker:

successful as it has been.

Chris Ducker:

You know, if you're not, I don't know.

Chris Ducker:

There's something about it.

Chris Ducker:

Like being on stages being interviewed, putting out your own show, doing

Chris Ducker:

all these things, it's all.

Chris Ducker:

It's all well.

Chris Ducker:

And good.

Chris Ducker:

If like you say, if people can discover you in a way where it's

Chris Ducker:

kind of almost like that six degree of separation thing, right.

Chris Ducker:

Where, oh, he said they good light.

Chris Ducker:

You just said it yourself.

Chris Ducker:

Like I met Carrie through the incubator through me and, you

Chris Ducker:

know, it's things like that, where.

Chris Ducker:

That's great.

Chris Ducker:

And there's nothing wrong with that at all.

Chris Ducker:

But when we think about how we've learned for decades for hundreds of years, how

Chris Ducker:

we've discovered things out, how we grown on knowledge basis for decades

Chris Ducker:

and hundreds of years, books have been at the very center of everything.

Chris Ducker:

Right.

Chris Ducker:

And they still are, as far as I'm concerned, even in this digital age.

Chris Ducker:

And there's just something about having a name on the front cover of a book

Chris Ducker:

that provides pure value from cover to cover that you can't, I don't think you

Chris Ducker:

can really put a dollar amount on it.

Chris Ducker:

I mean, you know, if you traditionally publish it, you'll

Chris Ducker:

make a couple of bucks a book.

Chris Ducker:

If you're lucky, if you self publish it, you make four or five times that amount,

Chris Ducker:

if you're lucky, but at the end of the day, the real success, the real wins

Chris Ducker:

attached to being an author is, you know, you're seen as a leader in your industry.

Chris Ducker:

You're instantly recognized as that leader in that industry or that niche, because

Chris Ducker:

you've got a book with your name on the front cover, and also more importantly,

Chris Ducker:

more than anything else, the people that pick up the book and read it and hopefully

Chris Ducker:

put into action, what they learn.

Chris Ducker:

And we're talking obviously business books and things like this right here.

Chris Ducker:

You know, that's where the real win is, because if they discover something

Chris Ducker:

that was in your book and put it into action and get a win out of it.

Chris Ducker:

They're not going to sh they're not going to keep that to themselves.

Chris Ducker:

They're going to share that.

Chris Ducker:

And that's how you get to the point of selling 10, 20, 30, 50, a hundred

Chris Ducker:

thousand, 150,000 copies of a book.

Chris Ducker:

It's not because 150,000 people are out there ready and waiting to buy it.

Chris Ducker:

No it's because their friends are talking about it.

Chris Ducker:

And that just takes us back to, the oldest form of persuasion and influence.

Chris Ducker:

And that is word of mouth.

Chris Ducker:

Right.

Chris Ducker:

Word of mouth you're after your own opinions, you're way more likely

Chris Ducker:

to believe the opinions of somebody that you know, like and trust.

Chris Ducker:

And so that's where word of mouth comes into play as well with everything.

Chris Ducker:

So yes, long-winded answer, but books, I could have just said books

Chris Ducker:

and that would have been it, but you would have missed all that gold there,

Johnny:

We would have an ID, prefer it with my guest, expand on their answers.

Johnny:

At least a little Chris, you know, it makes my life easier.

Johnny:

One of the things I love about the Youpreneur incubator, and I know

Johnny:

I'm sort of going back to that lot, but I mean, it's been very valuable

Johnny:

to me because I've done all sorts of courses on programs I've learned

Johnny:

from all sorts of different people.

Johnny:

And yeah, I feel that.

Johnny:

none of them have.

Johnny:

So I'm not going to say help my Hamlin quite sorry.

Johnny:

Cause it's not really handholding, but no, one's really set it out quite like

Johnny:

you have for me anyway, that you build this foundational level, then you build

Johnny:

on that and then you build on that.

Johnny:

You that, and you keep going up these levels with it to see what these are,

Johnny:

the things you need to have in place, or at least most of them, depending on the

Johnny:

kind of business you have and to see it all laid out like that just made so much

Johnny:

sense for me now in your, in your roadmap.

Johnny:

The book is kind of high up on other levels.

Johnny:

So there's a lot of foundational stuff to do first.

Johnny:

And I think maybe this is some of the stuff where people do get maybe not lost

Johnny:

in the weeds being lost is the wrong word, but maybe tongue run before they can walk.

Johnny:

Most people don't want to, I don't know how to, I don't want to take the time

Johnny:

to set up all the foundational stuff.

Johnny:

That's actually going to lay the groundwork for that stuff in the future.

Johnny:

Is that something that you, you saw very clearly creating that.

Chris Ducker:

Over and over and over again.

Chris Ducker:

Yeah.

Chris Ducker:

People like the idea.

Chris Ducker:

I mean, we were using the concept of the book.

Chris Ducker:

We're talking about that as an example, really a Bumble and everything else,

Chris Ducker:

but people like the idea of having a book and saying I'm an author

Chris Ducker:

and selling their book on Amazon.

Chris Ducker:

Right.

Chris Ducker:

But if that's all you've done as a business owner who is building a business

Chris Ducker:

based around your expertise, then when people pick up that book, And they

Chris Ducker:

like what they see and hear from you.

Chris Ducker:

And they want to reach out and end up doing business with you.

Chris Ducker:

What else have you got for them?

Chris Ducker:

Nothing, which is why we see everything else, you know, above or rather

Chris Ducker:

below in the roadmap towards that book part there that you mentioned.

Chris Ducker:

Is all geared up to not only actually a have something or other things to

Chris Ducker:

sell to people who come to you that want to invest in learning with you.

Chris Ducker:

But also it's also about making sure that not only can you sell something, but also

Chris Ducker:

you've already built up a certain level of community in a certain following over

Chris Ducker:

the work that you've done before the book comes out so that when you do release the

Chris Ducker:

book, it's somewhat of a success, right?

Chris Ducker:

And when you look at the fact that 97% of all nonfiction books never sell any more

Chris Ducker:

than a thousand copies in their lifetime.

Chris Ducker:

That statistic is horrific to think about all the, all the let's just

Chris Ducker:

bring it down to brass tacks, all the trees that have been chopped down for

Chris Ducker:

the paper that had been printed onto, you know, used for books to print.

Chris Ducker:

And no one's buying these books.

Chris Ducker:

Like it's brutal if you think about it.

Chris Ducker:

Right.

Chris Ducker:

So I, I just feel like it's just a smart way of setting it up.

Chris Ducker:

Number one, so that you've got a community that you can launch the book.

Chris Ducker:

two, that you've got other things that you can sell to those readers

Chris Ducker:

as, and when they come your way.

Chris Ducker:

And by the way, on the subject of books, things have changed a lot in the last

Chris Ducker:

10 to 15 years or so 15 years ago, if you had even even 12 or 13 years ago,

Chris Ducker:

if you had a good book idea and you could get an agent to sell that book,

Chris Ducker:

to publishers through a proposal.

Chris Ducker:

If it was really good, it was likely as a first time author

Chris Ducker:

that you'd get a book deal.

Chris Ducker:

It might not, you might not have made a six figure advance or a

Chris Ducker:

seven figure advance, but you probably could have got a book deal.

Chris Ducker:

Right.

Chris Ducker:

Nowadays publishers, they don't want just your book.

Chris Ducker:

They want your email list.

Chris Ducker:

They want your podcast listenership.

Chris Ducker:

They want your YouTube videos.

Chris Ducker:

They want your social media followers.

Chris Ducker:

So all becomes part of the proposal now that if you don't have all those

Chris Ducker:

things in place before you put the book out, the chances are, you're

Chris Ducker:

probably not going to get a tradition.

Chris Ducker:

Book publishing deal anyway.

Chris Ducker:

So yeah, there's pros and cons to it all, but ultimately this is the way

Chris Ducker:

that I like to teach it because I've seen people do it the other way round.

Chris Ducker:

And generally it's not the best business.

Johnny:

Yeah, no, I would say from, from my own perspective, one of the.

Johnny:

Things I used to as well, I like podcasts.

Johnny:

You put somewhere a bit higher up the ladder as well.

Johnny:

And, and there's someone who maybe started a podcast quite early on.

Johnny:

It makes sense to me now.

Johnny:

It's like, oh, I wish I had known.

Johnny:

I wish I'd had that realization before, because I know how much work

Johnny:

goes into a podcast and I know how much I'm not supposed to have because

Johnny:

have more, more systemized things on.

Johnny:

I have.

Johnny:

I'm more familiar with doing it, but it just makes sense to me

Johnny:

that, yeah, it's probably not one of the first things you should do.

Johnny:

Because so much needs to go into it.

Johnny:

It's not going to be a horrible thing to do, but it's probably

Johnny:

not going to bring in the income.

Johnny:

And it's like all this stuff that you really do need to take care of

Johnny:

these foundational levels first.

Johnny:

And I need them for myself, I think.

Johnny:

Yeah, there were times, many, many times where I damaged myself as an

Johnny:

entrepreneur, trying to get to those higher levels without doing all the stuff

Johnny:

that needs to happen to get you up there.

Chris Ducker:

Exactly.

Chris Ducker:

And that's the, you know, again, going back to the concept of, Bill, building the

Chris Ducker:

community before you launched the book.

Chris Ducker:

So the book can be successful exactly the same with the podcast.

Chris Ducker:

Exactly same with a podcast, you launch a podcast.

Chris Ducker:

No problem.

Chris Ducker:

Go straight up onto apple and everywhere else.

Chris Ducker:

And yes, it will be discovered by some people.

Chris Ducker:

Absolutely.

Chris Ducker:

But if you could launch it and you had an email list of 500 people, and

Chris Ducker:

half of those people opened every email that you sent, you would have

Chris Ducker:

250 people ready and waiting for.

Chris Ducker:

Not only listened to the show, but subscribed to the show, the

Chris Ducker:

download your launch episodes.

Chris Ducker:

And before you know, what's happening, boom, you're at the top of the new and

Chris Ducker:

noteworthy and you're ready to rock and roll with lots of new eyeballs

Chris Ducker:

seeing you way more eyeballs than if you'd have just launched it into the

Chris Ducker:

ethos with, you know, sort of not, you know, with nobody following you at all.

Chris Ducker:

You know what I

Johnny:

which is kind of what I did.

Johnny:

I w I was having, I was having, having that discussion with Mr.

Johnny:

Mark Asquith a few weeks back in the, yeah.

Johnny:

Very aware that it's it's one of these, you don't, you don't know what

Johnny:

you don't know at the time, I guess,

Johnny:

but, uh, it.

Johnny:

does make sense to reach out and try and get a strategy or a plan before

Johnny:

you start doing anything, especially if you're looking to potentially

Johnny:

do it as some kind of business.

Johnny:

I guess my issue was I didn't start a podcast as part of my business.

Johnny:

I started it as a fun project And it

Johnny:

ended up becoming a

Chris Ducker:

And that is, you know, I don't want to kind

Chris Ducker:

of like discouraged people.

Chris Ducker:

That's absolutely fine.

Chris Ducker:

There's nothing wrong with that at all.

Chris Ducker:

If you go into it with the mindset of, I'm not looking to make money out of this.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Chris Ducker:

Right.

Chris Ducker:

If you're doing it for fun, if you're doing it for connections, if you're

Chris Ducker:

doing it for relationships and stuff like that, then go, do you, do you think

Chris Ducker:

it's all good, but if your, if you're going into it thinking that you're going

Chris Ducker:

to publish a show once a week, and that you're going to make, you know, $10,000

Chris Ducker:

a month in sponsorship you're kidding yourself, plain and simple, you know?

Johnny:

I I'm a regular listener to your podcast.

Johnny:

And I wonder for you, what were the things that made you want to start that?

Johnny:

What said you're right.

Johnny:

It's time for my time for me to do a show,

Chris Ducker:

Well, so I've had, how many have I have 1, 2, 3, 4 different podcasts.

Chris Ducker:

In the last 12 years, the first one that I started was in April, 2010, which

Chris Ducker:

makes me a veteran podcaster apparently.

Chris Ducker:

Um, I did, this is the reason why I have gray hair and what little

Chris Ducker:

hair I've got left is great as well.

Chris Ducker:

So I feel pretty qualified to talk about this as a medium.

Chris Ducker:

And although there are way more successful shows out there.

Chris Ducker:

I will say the reason why I started it to begin with was entirely selfish.

Chris Ducker:

I wanted to get, cause I was, although I had been online since the mid nineties

Chris Ducker:

I'd never really utilized the internet for anything more than like email.

Chris Ducker:

Google searches and like watching cat videos on YouTube.

Chris Ducker:

Right.

Chris Ducker:

And so when I got in, once we got started with our kind of online journey as a,

Chris Ducker:

as a group of businesses, I thought, well, if I'm going to do this, what's

Chris Ducker:

the easiest way for me to be able to springboard off and piggyback off other

Chris Ducker:

people's lessons and, and growth habits.

Chris Ducker:

I know I'll find these.

Chris Ducker:

And I'll interview them or start a podcast.

Chris Ducker:

And my wife said to me, you'd never done a podcast before.

Chris Ducker:

We're like, we've only heard about them like six months ago.

Chris Ducker:

Like, what's the deal?

Chris Ducker:

And I said, well, I've got a computer and I've got Skype and I've got a call

Chris Ducker:

recorder and I've got headphones right.

Chris Ducker:

With a little mic on it.

Chris Ducker:

I don't need anything more.

Chris Ducker:

And so what I did is I launched the first show, virtual business lifestyle where

Chris Ducker:

I talked about building a business and we were, we were piggybacking a little

Chris Ducker:

on Tim and the four hour work week, a little bit, outsourcing and delegating

Chris Ducker:

and automation and all that kind of stuff.

Chris Ducker:

But it worked brilliantly.

Chris Ducker:

And so I started reaching out to, these old school veteran internet folks like

Chris Ducker:

Chris Brogan and You know, David Meerman Scott and all these guys that have

Chris Ducker:

been doing this for like 20 years and slowly but surely over the course of a

Chris Ducker:

couple of years, I just got to connect it to more and more and more people.

Chris Ducker:

And every time they came on the.

Chris Ducker:

I would just ask them questions that I wanted the answers to myself, but it

Chris Ducker:

just so happens that everybody else that was tuning in was in a similar position

Chris Ducker:

that I was, they were learning all this stuff for the first time as well.

Chris Ducker:

So they absolutely loved it.

Chris Ducker:

And then in 2014, I launched my first book, virtual freedom to

Chris Ducker:

which I attached a a limited 25 episode series as a podcast to help.

Chris Ducker:

It in the run-up to the book coming out and that worked brilliantly, then

Chris Ducker:

myself and Pat Flynn got together.

Chris Ducker:

And we did our one day business breakthrough podcast, which was, I

Chris Ducker:

think we did three seasons of that.

Chris Ducker:

I might be wrong, but I think we did three seasons of that.

Chris Ducker:

And we only ever was supposed to do one.

Chris Ducker:

And if, almost like, we want more so fine, we'll do another one.

Chris Ducker:

And then they want more, we do another, and then we're like, that's it.

Chris Ducker:

And then.

Chris Ducker:

There's the Youpreneur show and the Youpreneur shows coming

Chris Ducker:

up on 8 million downloads now.

Chris Ducker:

And I still, to this day, when I'm interviewing people on

Chris Ducker:

that show, it's purely selfish.

Chris Ducker:

I just want to know the secrets man.

Chris Ducker:

And because I know that that formula works.

Chris Ducker:

I know that my people like you, who listen into the show, they also

Chris Ducker:

want to know the secrets as well.

Chris Ducker:

And so, you know, I will.

Chris Ducker:

When you say, like what's been the biggest needle mover in terms of the overall

Chris Ducker:

growth of my personal influence, it's been the book hands down, but in terms

Chris Ducker:

of building my network and relationships and you know, my Rolodex to use a very

Chris Ducker:

old fashioned word the podcast has been the biggest game changer there without a

Chris Ducker:

doubt, all of the super close friendships that I've got in the industry now with.

Chris Ducker:

Lewis Howes and Gary Vaynerchuk and Amy Porterfield, and a whole bunch of other

Chris Ducker:

folks that, you know, the list is so long.

Chris Ducker:

Now these are people that genuinely spend time with I've broken bread with.

Chris Ducker:

I can text them whenever I want.

Chris Ducker:

You know, these are the people that I've, I've met all of them, all of

Chris Ducker:

them pretty much through my podcasting.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Yeah, I think that was one of the things I had no idea about when

Johnny:

I got into podcasting and was one of the unexpected benefits, the

Johnny:

amazing network that you build up.

Johnny:

And mainly I find that it's because the vast majority of people who

Johnny:

do podcasts are not doing it with the sole intent of making money.

Johnny:

I'm not saying that that's not bad, though.

Johnny:

There are shows that are like that, but the vast majority are not they're

Johnny:

doing it because they have a passion for what they do because they care

Johnny:

about it because like you, they want to have those interesting conversations

Johnny:

and find those secrets with people.

Johnny:

Although I will say I also get just as much value out of your

Johnny:

solo solo exercise as I do.

Johnny:

If any of the ones that you have with your guests as well, So.

Chris Ducker:

Yeah, well, and I appreciate that.

Chris Ducker:

And that is very specific for the longest time.

Chris Ducker:

I was just an interview show.

Chris Ducker:

I mean, we're talking years and years and years and years.

Chris Ducker:

And then probably around 2017 when I kind of started doing more coaching,

Chris Ducker:

more mastermind sessions more programs, you know, that sort of type of thing.

Chris Ducker:

It was very like, I needed to position myself as a genuine expert in the niche.

Chris Ducker:

And so you can do that through solo shows.

Chris Ducker:

So for anybody that's thinking about starting a show with.

Chris Ducker:

They want to be able to create those relationships, but they

Chris Ducker:

also want to be able to position themselves as a leader, as an expert.

Chris Ducker:

The easiest way to do that is to flip flop between the two formats.

Chris Ducker:

So one week you'll have an interview the next minute, you'll have a solo

Chris Ducker:

show, then interview solo, interview solo and so on and so on and so on.

Chris Ducker:

And that's pretty much what we do now, you know, week for week, pretty, pretty much.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

As, as someone who's where you are in the industry as a whole.

Johnny:

Presenters with big enough, you have a confidence, you have experience.

Johnny:

And I just wonder if you were always someone who was very comfortable

Johnny:

speaking and presenting, or if it was something that you really

Johnny:

had to develop for yourself.

Chris Ducker:

It's a good question.

Chris Ducker:

I, you know, when I was younger, I was pretty shy.

Chris Ducker:

I was quite short up until kind of like I reached and reached like 13, 14, and I

Chris Ducker:

threw like something stupid, like eight inches in one year or something crazy.

Chris Ducker:

I was pretty short dude.

Chris Ducker:

And the one thing that I always did enjoy doing though, was making people laugh.

Chris Ducker:

And so I would do, silly impressions and back in those days, my

Chris Ducker:

impressions were like, there, I say it, Jimmy Savile and you

Chris Ducker:

know, prince Charles.

Chris Ducker:

You know, uh, you know, all those, well we'll bleep out, his name and you know,

Chris Ducker:

all the people at Prince Charles, I used to do this thing, oh, well, mummy,

Chris Ducker:

you know, and all this kind of stuff.

Chris Ducker:

And now it's a horrible impersonation, but when you're like eight or nine years

Chris Ducker:

old or 10 years old, and you're doing it at a family, barbecue or something, and

Chris Ducker:

everyone's had a little bit of alcohol.

Chris Ducker:

It's pretty funny to see a kid doing that.

Chris Ducker:

And so I think that probably helped me build up the confidence.

Chris Ducker:

And then what happened was actually going into sixth form, uh, after high school

Chris Ducker:

you had to do presentations, right?

Chris Ducker:

You've got to, you've got to show your work.

Chris Ducker:

You've got to talk about essays that you've written

Chris Ducker:

and the light kind of stuff.

Chris Ducker:

And I realized that I was actually pretty comfortable standing in

Chris Ducker:

front of my classmates and my teachers talking about things.

Chris Ducker:

'cause I was always prepared, Johnny.

Chris Ducker:

That was the thing.

Chris Ducker:

I think the people who mess it up for the people that get up on the stage

Chris Ducker:

and kind of don't have a game plan.

Chris Ducker:

They, they figured, oh, well, I'll just talk about this for half an hour.

Chris Ducker:

That's a recipe for disaster.

Chris Ducker:

You might be able to talk for half an hour on a topic, but it

Chris Ducker:

doesn't mean that any of it's going to hit home with your audience.

Chris Ducker:

You know what I mean?

Chris Ducker:

Like there's a big difference between, you know, looping in stories.

Chris Ducker:

Punching out the odd joke and, and writing pre-writing and rehearsing certain

Chris Ducker:

sections of a talk such as your opening line, your closing line, and maybe two

Chris Ducker:

or three other what I call tweetable moments where you say something and

Chris Ducker:

everyone's like, oh man, that's good.

Chris Ducker:

I've got to tweet it out.

Chris Ducker:

That kind of thing.

Chris Ducker:

And I've actually been on stage with people where I've said something

Chris Ducker:

and I've said, yeah, I know.

Chris Ducker:

You want to grab your phone and tweet it right now?

Chris Ducker:

Don't you, in fact, you know what, I'll wait at Chris Ducker hashtag event.

Chris Ducker:

And this is what I said, and I'll literally wait for people to tweet it out.

Chris Ducker:

You know, these are the things that I think that know, that's the difference

Chris Ducker:

between like a presenter and a real kind of true note keynote speaker.

Chris Ducker:

Um, and although speaking is not something that I go out to, to, kind

Chris Ducker:

of get on my schedule on an annual basis, it does come to me probably

Chris Ducker:

around about six to eight gigs a year.

Chris Ducker:

I do.

Chris Ducker:

And they're always at good events.

Chris Ducker:

They're always with good people in attendance and I enjoy doing

Chris Ducker:

it, but I don't say I'm a speaker.

Chris Ducker:

Right.

Chris Ducker:

But I can speak because I know, I know, what I'm going to talk about.

Chris Ducker:

I've got a good amount of experience to back it up and people can argue with me

Chris Ducker:

and put their own opinions their way,

Chris Ducker:

that's absolutely fine.

Chris Ducker:

But I'm comfortable enough being in a position where I feel like I can get

Chris Ducker:

up on stage or, present to a group of people online where I know enough to

Chris Ducker:

be able to not fall flat on their face.

Johnny:

Th there is an interesting thing.

Johnny:

I think may people don't consider that a lot of the times w well, I think

Johnny:

probably we'll have clever things.

Johnny:

We could say.

Johnny:

Why isn't it?

Johnny:

Because like, but it does make a difference who's saying it.

Johnny:

And in what context they're saying it, you do have to have that level of

Johnny:

credibility and authority for people.

Johnny:

All right.

Johnny:

I should be paying attention to that.

Johnny:

This person knows what they're talking about.

Johnny:

This is someone I should listen to because you know, you could say something

Johnny:

deeply wise and very valuable to people.

Johnny:

But if you have no track record, no credibility, nobody knows who you are.

Johnny:

They are going to be thinking, why should I care?

Chris Ducker:

Yeah,

Johnny:

I listen to that?

Chris Ducker:

Yeah, absolutely.

Chris Ducker:

And also, you know, when you do have that track record and you've got

Chris Ducker:

that that, that influence, if you want to call it understand that you.

Chris Ducker:

These one liners these little takeaways that you can convey to

Chris Ducker:

the people that follow your work and subscribe and things like that.

Chris Ducker:

Like they can come to you at the weirdest moments as well.

Chris Ducker:

Like, you know, middle of the shower just before you're going to

Chris Ducker:

go to bed when you're walking the dog, you know, or whatever it is.

Chris Ducker:

And actually it's it's, it was really interesting about two weeks ago.

Chris Ducker:

just, just under two weeks ago.

Chris Ducker:

My wife and my kids went to the Philippines for three week holiday and I'm

Chris Ducker:

just kind of left in the house on my own for the first time, literally quite ever.

Chris Ducker:

And I thought, well, okay, I can, I can keep myself busy during the day.

Chris Ducker:

There's lots going on, which is the reason why I'm not going with them.

Chris Ducker:

But in the evening it's going to be tough.

Chris Ducker:

So I need a show to watch on Netflix, something I can just watch an episode of.

Chris Ducker:

Every night and I don't know what attracted me to it at all, but I started

Chris Ducker:

watching the show called Top Boy, which is about youth drug dealers in London

Chris Ducker:

on like housing estates and stuff.

Chris Ducker:

And it's so not my usual kind of drama, but two or three episodes in, I was

Chris Ducker:

actually getting into it, Johnny.

Chris Ducker:

Every now, and then one of these, you know, street kids, uh, you know, or,

Chris Ducker:

or, you know, street drug dealers and everything, or money launderers or

Chris Ducker:

whatever they had in the show, they would come out with something that was so good

Chris Ducker:

that I hit, I hit the pause button and I'd have to come running into my own

Chris Ducker:

office here and write it on the board.

Chris Ducker:

And there's two or three things on the board behind me that

Chris Ducker:

I've kind of like rewritten.

Chris Ducker:

So the, I can pass them on either in videos or podcasts and things like that.

Chris Ducker:

But, you know, th they're not word for word for what was in the show, but now

Chris Ducker:

I've rewritten them in a way that I can convey them to my audience and my

Chris Ducker:

clients in a way that hopefully it's home.

Chris Ducker:

And they, they understand that and kind of go with it.

Chris Ducker:

So these opportunities to be able to get these little jewels will come to you

Chris Ducker:

in no matter, you know, where you are.

Chris Ducker:

Uh, it's the weirdest moments.

Chris Ducker:

Really, intentional about capturing them when you hear them or see

Chris Ducker:

them because, you know, a minute later they're gone, you'll

Chris Ducker:

never remember them, you know?

Johnny:

but that's pretty important.

Johnny:

I was listening to a while back Gary Vaynerchuk on Jordan Harbinger's podcast.

Johnny:

And, and I guess if you're going to go on a show like Jordan Harbinger's

Johnny:

is one of the biggest podcasts out there and you want to be well prepared.

Johnny:

Like if I was coming as a guest on your show, I would want

Johnny:

to be really well-prepared.

Johnny:

So Gary has.

Johnny:

Something.

Johnny:

He very clearly had prepared that quotable stuff, stuff that he knew was going to

Johnny:

pop and stuff that was not yet, you will want to write this down and you will.

Johnny:

And I said, that was so clever.

Johnny:

It was

Johnny:

just so clever to have that stuff.

Johnny:

And Yeah.

Johnny:

most people would just go on blah, blah, blah.

Johnny:

On a podcast.

Johnny:

He went on there that this is quite simple stuff.

Johnny:

This is the stuff that when you

Johnny:

have those memories, Yeah.

Johnny:

Being prepared for this stuff is, is all the difference to just

Johnny:

going out there and winging it.

Johnny:

And.

Chris Ducker:

One of my buddies Stu McLaren, who runs like a membership

Chris Ducker:

training education business been in the business for a long, long time online.

Chris Ducker:

And he, his big thing, the way he sells his products and

Chris Ducker:

services through telling stories.

Chris Ducker:

He does it better than most people on the planet, quite frankly.

Chris Ducker:

And I remember I had him on my show a while back and I asked them, like,

Chris Ducker:

you tell all these great stories when you're being interviewed or

Chris Ducker:

when you're live on Facebook or like, how do you just quantifiably?

Chris Ducker:

How do you remember them all?

Chris Ducker:

Because in one hour you want to tell one or two, he'll tell like

Chris Ducker:

seven or eight to make a point.

Chris Ducker:

Like, how do you remember it?

Chris Ducker:

And he said, you know, it's not rocket science.

Chris Ducker:

You want to know.

Chris Ducker:

I just have bits of paper stuck up all over my office.

Chris Ducker:

I bought the name of the person in big black letters and then like two

Chris Ducker:

or three talking points of where they were at, what I worked with

Chris Ducker:

them on, and where they're at now.

Chris Ducker:

And I'm like, this is gold.

Chris Ducker:

Like, why are we in.

Chris Ducker:

this, like I have a number of clients stories that I can pull

Chris Ducker:

off relatively easily, but having those visual cues in front of us

Chris Ducker:

means that we get the stories right.

Chris Ducker:

Every single time.

Chris Ducker:

And that is very, very powerful.

Chris Ducker:

Indeed.

Chris Ducker:

Very

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

I think a lot of people rather than just delivering information without the

Johnny:

stories and the stories are actually a really key part of persuasion factor.

Johnny:

When, when we do get the opportunity

Chris Ducker:

That's what keeps people tuned in.

Chris Ducker:

I mean, you know, it's all very well wanting to learn something, but if

Chris Ducker:

you can back it up with a real story behind it, then, you know, it's just

Chris Ducker:

so much more endearing, so much more.

Johnny:

I know we don't have that much time next.

Johnny:

I want to get to a few things before we do start to wrap things up, but yeah.

Johnny:

One thing I'm going to say, I don't not from you.

Johnny:

And I've learned a lot from your book and I have a very kindly sent

Johnny:

me a copy and I have the audio book already and greatly appreciate all

Johnny:

of that and keep learning from me.

Johnny:

I wonder for you, like, if I can to use that Chris, other than your own

Johnny:

book, which everybody should read, what books would you recommend?

Johnny:

The ones that are may be made an impact on you.

Johnny:

If we just have one or two of those books, what are the ones

Johnny:

that you would most recommended?

Chris Ducker:

So, okay.

Chris Ducker:

Let's go with three books in terms of, particularly in terms

Chris Ducker:

of business, if that's okay.

Chris Ducker:

First up, I'll go back to Zig see you at the top.

Chris Ducker:

Zig Ziglar, one of the best books ever, plain simple.

Chris Ducker:

Number two.

Chris Ducker:

I would say, although it's probably a little dated now Gary's crush it.

Chris Ducker:

I remember picking that up in like 2009, 2010, thinking.

Chris Ducker:

I'm going to be a YouTube star.

Chris Ducker:

This is going to be great.

Chris Ducker:

You know, just the power of like personal branding and how you could genuinely

Chris Ducker:

make money off of what you enjoyed.

Chris Ducker:

I think he said cash in on your passion or something on the, on the subtitle.

Chris Ducker:

Just a great book.

Chris Ducker:

And still to this day, you probably could still pick it up and pick up

Chris Ducker:

some incredible, incredible lessons.

Chris Ducker:

And then the other.

Chris Ducker:

There's another book.

Chris Ducker:

God, there's so many, there's another book called Rocket Fuel

Chris Ducker:

that I read for the second time, just recently by Gino Wickman.

Chris Ducker:

And it talks about the really important relationship between

Chris Ducker:

the visionary in a business.

Chris Ducker:

Usually the owner, the CEO, and the integral.

Chris Ducker:

All right.

Chris Ducker:

Somebody who does all their dirty work, right.

Chris Ducker:

The managers, the team, and all the rest of it.

Chris Ducker:

That that's been a very, very important book to read as well.

Chris Ducker:

But I mean, if I'm, to be honest with you, Johnny, like, you know,

Chris Ducker:

I probably have close to three or 400 books on the shelves behind me.

Chris Ducker:

Here they go right up to the vaulted ceiling.

Chris Ducker:

And there's so many great ones to pick.

Chris Ducker:

It's so hard to quantify it into just a few.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

it must've been, I struggled myself sometimes because I get through maybe

Johnny:

a two, two or three books a week.

Johnny:

and so yeah, it's hard to pick the

Chris Ducker:

Yeah.

Chris Ducker:

Particularly if you're listening to them as well, right?

Chris Ducker:

Like when you're out and what, you know, there are times now where, you know, I

Chris Ducker:

don't know about you, but like I used to buy books at airports all the time.

Chris Ducker:

But, but I realized that I would read a book, you know, in the crappy lighting

Chris Ducker:

that you get in the cabin on a plane.

Chris Ducker:

I'd read a book for 30 minutes and my eyes would get all tired.

Chris Ducker:

I'd have to rest.

Chris Ducker:

If I had an audio book on my phone or my iPad or something, I

Chris Ducker:

could listen to the entire thing.

Chris Ducker:

LA the New York Bosch, I've just done the four hour work week.

Chris Ducker:

You know what I mean?

Chris Ducker:

So it's it's yeah, it's interesting.

Chris Ducker:

The way that we consume stuff nowadays as well.

Johnny:

I'm a huge fan of audio books.

Johnny:

I want to ask you, this is one of my last questions for you now.

Johnny:

I have so many more what's

Johnny:

your,

Chris Ducker:

through some more ground.

Chris Ducker:

We

Chris Ducker:

can, we can go for a little bit longer.

Chris Ducker:

Go

Johnny:

Okay.

Johnny:

But what's your influence and persuasion.

Johnny:

Super power.

Chris Ducker:

I'd like to say my incredibly good looks and wit and charm.

Chris Ducker:

I don't know, actually, I, I think that a super power, I think the one thing that

Chris Ducker:

I am pretty good at, and yes, this would be influenced personified actually is.

Chris Ducker:

Bringing people together.

Chris Ducker:

I'm a very good connector of people.

Chris Ducker:

I think I've been running, events from, 10 seats around

Chris Ducker:

table, private masterminds, right.

Chris Ducker:

The way up to, four or 500 people in a conference kind of thing.

Chris Ducker:

And, you know, I always say it and many people probably hear me say it more than

Chris Ducker:

five or six times on the, oh, that's just the S you know, that's a, that's a bit, he

Chris Ducker:

says that all the time kind of thing, but I mean, it genuinely, I'm really blessed

Chris Ducker:

to have the overall worldwide community that we have around everything that we do.

Chris Ducker:

And when we do, you know, when you put on the vent on, in London, England,

Chris Ducker:

and you've got people flying in from 37 different countries around the world, as

Chris Ducker:

far as Australia and as close as France, you know, there's something to be said

Chris Ducker:

for the person that's making that happen.

Chris Ducker:

And I think that, you know, having the ability to bring all these different

Chris Ducker:

people from all these different walks of life and backgrounds together

Chris Ducker:

to genuinely learn with each other network party, have a little fun

Chris Ducker:

and do all those things together.

Chris Ducker:

That is a super power.

Chris Ducker:

And I don't care like what language you speak, what color your skin

Chris Ducker:

is, who you love, who you don't.

Chris Ducker:

We're just all the human race.

Chris Ducker:

And I just love the idea of bringing people together to further

Chris Ducker:

their goals and their dreams.

Chris Ducker:

And that's genuinely, I think something that doesn't necessarily

Chris Ducker:

come easy to everybody.

Chris Ducker:

But it does come easy to me.

Chris Ducker:

So I'm, I guess I'm kind of lucky for it.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

If we were to go in a few minutes more than I would like to ask

Johnny:

you, what has been perhaps one of your own toughest challenges as a

Johnny:

business owner or an entrepreneur?

Chris Ducker:

Oh, that's an easy one to answer.

Chris Ducker:

Delegating letting go, you know, getting out of my own way, whatever

Chris Ducker:

kind of way you want to put it.

Chris Ducker:

You know, I burned out in 2009.

Chris Ducker:

We'd been building the business for a few years.

Chris Ducker:

One morning I couldn't wake up, you know?

Chris Ducker:

Oh, well I could wake up, but I couldn't get out of bed.

Chris Ducker:

My wife called the doctor, we went to the hospital.

Chris Ducker:

We did blood panels.

Chris Ducker:

We did scans and all the rest of it.

Chris Ducker:

And I was basically I was diagnosed with acute exhaustion, acute

Chris Ducker:

dehydration and mild depression.

Chris Ducker:

And that came about as a result of sitting on a chair for 15 hours

Chris Ducker:

a day for three years, building my business six days a week.

Chris Ducker:

And.

Chris Ducker:

I was the reason why that was happening.

Chris Ducker:

It was because I wouldn't let go.

Chris Ducker:

I would do everything.

Chris Ducker:

I would do the hiring.

Chris Ducker:

I did the training.

Chris Ducker:

I would do the managing.

Chris Ducker:

I would do, you know, I'd walk around our it server room in

Chris Ducker:

our facility looking at cables.

Chris Ducker:

Like I knew what the hell they did.

Chris Ducker:

Like it was ridiculous, Johnny.

Chris Ducker:

It was ridiculous.

Chris Ducker:

And the moment that I got out of my way, and we S we actually hired eight people

Chris Ducker:

in 2010 to replace me in the business.

Chris Ducker:

And this is a business that is a multi seven figure annual revenue

Chris Ducker:

business still to this day.

Chris Ducker:

And now I spend about 30 minutes a month on that business.

Chris Ducker:

I talk with my general manager, 30 minutes every month we have virtual staff

Chris Ducker:

finder, which has just hit 12 years.

Chris Ducker:

I spent about 30 minutes a month on that as well.

Chris Ducker:

So I've become really, really good at delegating now.

Chris Ducker:

But that was the biggest.

Chris Ducker:

The biggest hurdle, the biggest stumbling block was understanding

Chris Ducker:

the power of surrounding yourself with really good people that you

Chris Ducker:

don't have to do it all yourself.

Chris Ducker:

You don't have to wear all the hats as being the biggest game changer.

Chris Ducker:

No doubt.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

it's interesting that I was writing about that in my blog last week.

Johnny:

And then I think a lot of people are heading towards this burnout journey

Johnny:

themselves because they are trying to be everything and do everything.

Johnny:

And.

Johnny:

Be everywhere, be on all the channels and see that we always

Johnny:

get these new force coming up.

Johnny:

Someone who's direct killing got on Tik TOK.

Johnny:

All right.

Johnny:

I need to do that.

Johnny:

I need to go out and take time.

Johnny:

I'm killing, got an Instagram.

Johnny:

Oh, I need to do that.

Johnny:

And he's go, we get all that all the time and this, the shiny object

Johnny:

syndrome and this, or this thing, what we should be in all of these

Johnny:

places.

Johnny:

And yet most of us are trying to do that when we're not really

Johnny:

ready to expand beyond that.

Johnny:

What, what do you think is the cure for people who are like maybe spinning

Johnny:

their wheels at that moment or trying to bang their heads against the wall?

Johnny:

Trying to do too much.

Chris Ducker:

Well, I think genuinely, they need to look for a coach.

Chris Ducker:

They need to look for somebody to show them the way just like I did,

Chris Ducker:

you know, I don't know the exact dollar amount that I've invested in

Chris Ducker:

masterminds and coaches and mentors over the year, but in terms of.

Chris Ducker:

You know their fees along with travel and hotels and you know, the whole

Chris Ducker:

kit and caboodle man, quarter of a mil, maybe more even quite literally.

Chris Ducker:

And that's because I'm not superhuman, I've got problems.

Chris Ducker:

I need to fix them as well.

Chris Ducker:

Halfway through the pandemic, I started getting all these gut issues.

Chris Ducker:

I says, well, why is my stomach so bloated all the time?

Chris Ducker:

Why am I, why am I waking up with a painful stomach and things like that.

Chris Ducker:

And so I hired a nutritionist who specializes in gut balance.

Chris Ducker:

It ain't sexy, but it cured the problem.

Chris Ducker:

I was eating too much crap, not working out at the right times,

Chris Ducker:

drinking caffeine at the wrong time of the day and all the rest of it.

Chris Ducker:

Right.

Chris Ducker:

So, you know, If they're really struggling, if they're spinning the

Chris Ducker:

words, they're trying to do all these things that they see everybody else doing.

Chris Ducker:

One of the easiest ways to get over there is to hire somebody, to help

Chris Ducker:

them figure it out because sometimes you're too close to your own situation

Chris Ducker:

to realize, you know, where the exit is on, on the issues that you're

Chris Ducker:

experiencing and having a coach or having a mentor or being part of a mastermind.

Chris Ducker:

You know, I put them all in sort of the same category.

Chris Ducker:

Is a great way to be able to make sure that you overcome those problems, but

Chris Ducker:

then even more importantly, make sure that you don't experience them again.

Chris Ducker:

Right.

Chris Ducker:

and

Chris Ducker:

and stay on the right path and, and forget about the shiny objects and

Chris Ducker:

bloody TikTok and all the rest of it.

Chris Ducker:

Like you don't don't need tick tock to build a successful business.

Chris Ducker:

You don't,

Chris Ducker:

I know this because I'm not on bloody TikTok and I'm doing just fine.

Johnny:

you don't want to do those silly dances and

Johnny:

now.

Chris Ducker:

I'm not doing that.

Chris Ducker:

It's interesting, Chloe, as you know, my daughter, she runs all of our

Chris Ducker:

social and she's always saying to me, you know, cause I'm quite active on

Chris Ducker:

Instagram and she says, yeah, dad, we should get you doing some reels.

Chris Ducker:

I'm like, okay.

Chris Ducker:

Yeah, I can do a reel or two, you know, what, what do you want me to do?

Chris Ducker:

And she goes, you know, these ones where they point, you know, and then

Chris Ducker:

text appears, I'm not doing, I look a right plonker, I've got no intention of

Chris Ducker:

wanting to do anything like that at all.

Chris Ducker:

So it goes back to what we talked about, you know, at the beginning of.

Chris Ducker:

Do the things your own way, you know, you only have one life.

Chris Ducker:

And if you are particularly building a business based around your experience

Chris Ducker:

and your influence and the things that you are known for, or want to be known

Chris Ducker:

for, then you shouldn't try and copy what Gary Vaynerchuk or me or you or

Chris Ducker:

anyone else for that matter is doing.

Chris Ducker:

You should, You can use some of their tactics and strategies.

Chris Ducker:

Sure.

Chris Ducker:

You've got to do it your way as early on in the journey as possible.

Chris Ducker:

And if that means you need to kind of correct the course a little bit and

Chris Ducker:

move in a slightly different direction.

Chris Ducker:

So the one that you've been going then, you know, spin, you know,

Chris Ducker:

spin the helm right there, man.

Chris Ducker:

You got to spin that wheel at the helm much earlier on as possible because

Chris Ducker:

you've only got so many time, so many days in the week and so many years on the.

Johnny:

There for, from, from my own journey.

Johnny:

That's what I recognize that.

Johnny:

And I see that very early on.

Johnny:

I think maybe I didn't do that as much as I should have because I,

Johnny:

I didn't really have the feedback.

Johnny:

I didn't really have the following or the things that, to show me

Johnny:

that, And it was only really sort of understanding these foundational elements.

Johnny:

Having to build up as like, oh, it has to be that it has to be you being your

Johnny:

authentic self, because anything else you will get, you will get cold ass in it.

Johnny:

If you're trying to be a Tony Robbins knockoff, or a Gary V knockoff or a

Johnny:

Mel Robbins knock-off or whatever, you will get caught out on it.

Chris Ducker:

Yeah, absolutely.

Chris Ducker:

And you know, and then, and then it's done, then you're finished

Chris Ducker:

right then you're finished.

Chris Ducker:

So yeah, just do you don't lie.

Chris Ducker:

Don't BS.

Chris Ducker:

For you all the time and you know, just

Chris Ducker:

help people, man, you know, to, to end on Zig Ziglar, he said that you

Chris Ducker:

can have anything in life that you want as long as you help, as many

Chris Ducker:

other people get what they want.

Chris Ducker:

And so amen to Zig.

Chris Ducker:

that onboard every single day, man,

Chris Ducker:

every single day.

Johnny:

absolutely.

Johnny:

Chris, I could talk to you for hours, but I know that you don't

Johnny:

have that kind of time, but I am looking forward to spending some time

Johnny:

with you in person in a few months.

Johnny:

So, and getting to

Johnny:

meet you for the first time as well.

Johnny:

I'm very excited for that.

Johnny:

Thank you so much for your time today.

Johnny:

it's been an absolute honor to have you on my show and I look forward to

Johnny:

continuing to learn for you in the future.

Johnny:

There'll be links in the show notes for anyone else who would like to

Johnny:

start taking that journey with you.

Chris Ducker:

Thanks, man.

Chris Ducker:

It was a real pleasure.

Chris Ducker:

You're an inspiration do to keep doing what you're doing.

Johnny:

Thanks for tuning in.

Johnny:

I hope you've enjoyed the show.

Johnny:

And if you did, please make sure that you are not only subscribed to future

Johnny:

episodes, but share the episode out with your friends and network as well.

Johnny:

It's the one thing that makes the biggest difference in helping me to grow the show

Johnny:

and you can consider that to be the price of admission into

Johnny:

all this great information from amazing guests like Chris.

Johnny:

Sometimes I record a show and I just know that I'm going to have to go back

Johnny:

and listen to it and make some notes.

Johnny:

And for me, this is one of those shows and maybe for you as well.

Johnny:

So it's well worth going back and taking a note of all those different things,

Johnny:

but do go and check the show notes.

Johnny:

You can get those links and maybe even consider coming and joining myself

Johnny:

and other like-minded entrepreneurs in Chris' incubator community, which for

Johnny:

me has been one of the best guidance systems for your entrepreneurial journey.

Johnny:

I mentioned right at the start of the show that speaking may not be Speaking

Johnny:

Influence for that much longer.

Johnny:

This is because things are going to be changing, but not that much.

Johnny:

So you're still going to be getting great guests and we're still going

Johnny:

to be talking about influence and persuasion, and we'll be having

Johnny:

more of a focus on the podcasting side of influence and persuasion

Johnny:

speaking with more people who are.

Johnny:

Building their professional authority and extending their influence and persuasion

Johnny:

through podcasting, not exclusively, but certainly it's going to be a more

Johnny:

guiding feature of the show is coming up in the future and with that, the name

Johnny:

of the show will be changing as well.

Johnny:

So I hope you will stay with us through that transition.

Johnny:

We're still going to be bringing you a lot of the same great content

Johnny:

and hopefully bring you even more exciting and interesting guests and

Johnny:

topics and book reviews and the likes.

Johnny:

So please do stay tuned for the show at this exciting time.

Johnny:

But right now, if you are listening to the show on your device, maybe

Johnny:

you have that in your hand right now.

Johnny:

If you have your device handy right now, please do make sure you are subscribed

Johnny:

to the show for future episodes on Apple Podcasts it's really easy to do.

Johnny:

Just press the plus button on the show and on any other platform

Johnny:

that's very easy to do as well.

Johnny:

It would mean the world to me.

Johnny:

If you are able to leave us a review for the show.

Johnny:

One thing is it tells me how well the show is going and what you like and

Johnny:

what we could maybe work on improving.

Johnny:

Whether there are particular guests you'd like to see those kinds of.

Johnny:

Really easy to do on apple podcasts.

Johnny:

You can also do that on podchaser.com and you can not leave a star rating on

Johnny:

Spotify, if you would like to do that.

Johnny:

It means the world to me podcast is love getting feedback, and it is so rare,

Johnny:

but really would appreciate that as well as you, of course, sharing out the show

Johnny:

and more than anything, the fact that you come along and listen to the show.

Johnny:

So thank you for tuning into this episode.

Johnny:

I hope to see you again for another episode very soon.

Johnny:

Wherever you're going, whatever you're doing, have an amazing rest of your day.

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About the Podcast

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Present Influence
The podcast that helps professional communicators learn the skills that increase influence, impact and authority.

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About your host

Profile picture for John Ball

John Ball

John Ball is a keynote coach and professional speaker on a mission to help upcoming leaders master their communication, create impact and stand out as experts in their field.
John left the high life of his flying career to do something more meaningful to him and has since worked with several leading personal and professional development organisations as a lead coach and trainer.
The heart of everything John does involves helping people shift to personal responsibility and conscious awareness of how they show up and perform in every situation, whilst equipping them with the tools to be exceptional.
John also co-hosts The Coaching Clinic Podcast with his great friend and colleague Angie Besignano.
He lives in the beautiful city of Valencia, Spain with his husband and often visits the UK and US for speaking and training engagements. When he's not speaking or podcasting, he's likely to be out swimming, kayaking or enjoying time with friends.

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