How To Develop Professional Relatability Through Storytelling | Sophie Wadsworth

Johnny: 00:00:00

Welcome to the show.

Johnny: 00:00:00

My name is Johnny Ball.

Johnny: 00:00:01

This is speaking influence at least for now.

Johnny: 00:00:04

So for those of you who have been treating them regularly, you may be

Johnny: 00:00:07

aware that there are some changes coming up on the show and a more about

Johnny: 00:00:10

those in just a moment, but this is the influence and persuasion show that

Johnny: 00:00:13

is really all about helping you build professional authority and become a

Johnny: 00:00:17

powerfully persuasive communicator.

Johnny: 00:00:19

And whilst we're on that journey, Also helping you pick up some of the tips

Johnny: 00:00:23

and tricks that are going to help you be able to defend yourself against the

Johnny: 00:00:27

weapons of influence and persuasion being used against you, and also learning

Johnny: 00:00:31

how to use those weapons in an ethical way for your life and your business.

Johnny: 00:00:37

Now I have mentioned some changes coming up in the show.

Johnny: 00:00:39

The name is going to be changing, and I'll tell you more about that nearer the time.

Johnny: 00:00:43

And some of the focus of the show is going to be narrowing a bit more and whilst we

Johnny: 00:00:47

will still be having great conversations about influence and persuasion with

Johnny: 00:00:50

experts from various fields, a lot of the focus is going to be narrowing into

Johnny: 00:00:55

building influence and authority and becoming more powerfully persuasive

Johnny: 00:00:58

communicators through podcasting, whether as hosts, whether as guests, whether

Johnny: 00:01:03

as marketers or other ways that you may be able to think of to use and leverage

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podcasting for your professional growth.

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We're going to stay very focused on the business side of influence and persuasion

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and helping you to build and grow your business, your authority, and to become

Johnny: 00:01:18

a recognized expert in your area.

Johnny: 00:01:22

This week on the show, we're going to be talking about storytelling.

Johnny: 00:01:25

And my guests for that is an executive coach who has been helping other

Johnny: 00:01:29

coaches understand the power of stories in their work and in their

Johnny: 00:01:33

communication skills to be able to be

Johnny: 00:01:36

better communicators and more effective with how they deliver and

Johnny: 00:01:41

also in understanding ourselves, her name is Sophie Wadsworth, I know

Johnny: 00:01:45

you're going to enjoy this show.

Johnny: 00:01:46

I have had some amazing guests recently, and you might want to

Johnny: 00:01:50

check out some of those recent shows with people like Chris Ducker, Mr.

Johnny: 00:01:53

Youpreneur himself, Daniel Tolson, Adam Adams from the podcast on podcasting,

Johnny: 00:01:59

Alex Sanfilippo from Pod Match and more besides.

Johnny: 00:02:02

I've already started recording some of the shows that are going to be under the

Johnny: 00:02:05

new focus and new brand of this podcast.

Johnny: 00:02:09

And I know that not everybody is going to love the change that's coming across.

Johnny: 00:02:12

So as we make those changes, some of you may love some of the content that's

Johnny: 00:02:16

more about influence and persuasion still, and not so much the stuff

Johnny: 00:02:19

that's going to be more focused on the podcast side of helping you to do that.

Johnny: 00:02:23

And that's absolutely fine.

Johnny: 00:02:24

Hope there's still going to be plenty that will keep you wanting to tune in.

Johnny: 00:02:27

For some of you, the podcast stuff is going to be really great for

Johnny: 00:02:30

helping you to really focus in on building your professional authority

Johnny: 00:02:34

and becoming an amazing communicator.

Johnny: 00:02:36

Whichever path you want, and I hope you'll stay with us for future shows

Johnny: 00:02:39

And if you'd like to contribute to the show in some way, shape or

Johnny: 00:02:42

form, please get in touch with me.

Johnny: 00:02:44

My website is present influence.com.

Johnny: 00:02:45

You can find all of my contact information there, and you'll often find me hanging

Johnny: 00:02:49

around on Twitter and Instagram as well, which can be great places to contact me.

Johnny: 00:02:53

You're probably already thinking hurry up and get on with the show,

Johnny: 00:02:55

so I'm going to do exactly that and hope that you will enjoy today's

Johnny: 00:02:59

episode of speaking influence.

Johnny: 00:03:20

Welcome to speaking influence.

Johnny: 00:03:22

Now we are revisiting some territory to some degree because we have,

Johnny: 00:03:26

but I haven't done it for a while.

Johnny: 00:03:28

We do sometimes like to talk about storytelling and using stories in your

Johnny: 00:03:32

inference and persuasion as part of how you communicate about what you do and

Johnny: 00:03:36

how you entertain and engage an audience.

Johnny: 00:03:39

We have someone with us today who is going to help us be able to do that even

Johnny: 00:03:43

better than we may have done before.

Johnny: 00:03:45

And become better at communicating through stories and more besides,

Johnny: 00:03:49

well, she works as an executive coach.

Johnny: 00:03:51

Her name is Sophie Wadsworth.

Johnny: 00:03:53

Please.

Johnny: 00:03:53

Welcome to the show Sophie Wadsworth.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:03:56

Thank you so much, Johnny.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:03:58

Great to be here.

Johnny: 00:04:00

Great to have you on the show and I'm looking forward to the

Johnny: 00:04:03

conversation that we're going to have.

Johnny: 00:04:04

But before we get into talking more about storytelling and a bit more

Johnny: 00:04:07

about what you do with that story, with storytelling in your own professional

Johnny: 00:04:11

life, I'd like to know if there's somebody who you particularly look up to

Johnny: 00:04:16

respect and admire for their influence and persuasion and for how they use it.

Johnny: 00:04:20

And why.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:04:22

well, most recently it's a thought leader and coach

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:04:28

wouldn't, you know, named Dorie Clark.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:04:31

And I find her someone who has wisdom each time I read her posts and her

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:04:37

books speaks with great integrity.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:04:41

And she's super real.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:04:44

Even though she's very accomplished.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:04:46

So that's the first person who comes to mind.

Johnny: 00:04:49

Fantastic say, is that someone who you try to be more like, do you

Johnny: 00:04:54

model the kind of way that she shows.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:04:58

you know, I do in certain ways, Johnny, because

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:05:01

I find her very consistent and energetic in her writing.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:05:07

So it's like, I can count on this voice reaching out to me in

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:05:12

this steady way, challenging me, but also saying I've been there.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:05:17

Here's how I've been there and even sharing anecdotes.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:05:21

I love stories.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:05:22

So have a sense of she's traveled road.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:05:25

She's way ahead of me.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:05:27

And I can build some of my own path how she's navigated.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:05:33

Yeah, some tough stretches.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:05:35

And yeah.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:05:36

Had a lot of think ability to learn from experience along the way.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:05:40

So admire that and hope to do more of that myself.

Johnny: 00:05:45

Great.

Johnny: 00:05:46

I guess it's important to have these people who are already further along

Johnny: 00:05:49

in the game, who we can look up to and follow in their footsteps and then

Johnny: 00:05:52

find our path beyond that as well.

Johnny: 00:05:55

That's a great answer.

Johnny: 00:05:56

And I would like to know if you work as, as, uh, as an executive

Johnny: 00:05:59

coach, and so somebody might be thinking well you more, where does

Johnny: 00:06:02

storytelling fit in for somebody who's working as an executive coach.

Johnny: 00:06:08

Where does it fit in?

Johnny: 00:06:09

What, how do you use that in the kind of work that.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:06:13

well, it shows up in a variety of ways.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:06:16

I think one of the ways it shows up is the story that we're telling

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:06:19

ourselves of where we are our career.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:06:24

as an executive coach, I am inviting people to reflect on

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:06:29

their journey to the here and now why they do the work that they do.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:06:34

And some of those peak experiences, the highs, and very importantly, the lows that

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:06:41

they've navigated along the way, because the story that we tell ourselves is

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:06:47

extremely powerful how we are connecting with the people that selling to, that.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:06:54

we're coaching.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:06:55

And that we're working with, if we're leading a team.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:06:58

So that's the first way is what's the story in our own head our journey.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:07:01

So to speak this moment when we're in this conversation,

Johnny: 00:07:06

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:07:07

So how do we identify our story?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:07:11

Well, that's a big question.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:07:13

Yes.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:07:14

And and that's something where it's very helpful to have a

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:07:18

coach to guide you along the way.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:07:21

I'd say first it's taking the time to reflect, to write,

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:07:28

to record into your phone.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:07:30

However you like to explore it, what your life has been

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:07:34

what stories stand out for you.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:07:36

If you think about moments of crisis and moments of great

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:07:39

accomplishment and just let yourself write them, type them, speak them.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:07:44

actually a very good beginning.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:07:47

And would say more specifically, you can think about what are the stories

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:07:52

you tend to tell to your staff, to your colleagues, you know, when you're sitting

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:07:58

around, what do you tend to say about, like, what are your war stories about

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:08:04

the trials and tribulations so far, and think about the nature of those.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:08:10

And who you were as a character in that story.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:08:13

That's a great starting place.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:08:15

It's not necessarily about, oh, I need to go figure out some story.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:08:19

I've never told often we've got these vignettes we already are telling, and

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:08:24

it's a matter of excavating those and amplifying them and understanding them

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:08:30

in the larger narrative of our lives.

Johnny: 00:08:33

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:08:33

Do you find that in some of the cases where you're working on this sort of

Johnny: 00:08:38

thing with somebody that they may be, feel reluctant to talk about some of

Johnny: 00:08:42

those deeper challenges that they've had in life, because perhaps they

Johnny: 00:08:47

don't want to share those stories with people who they may be see

Johnny: 00:08:52

them as being one particular thing.

Johnny: 00:08:54

And that these stories of where they've maybe failed or crashed and burned

Johnny: 00:08:59

or whatever else has come before, but that might change the way people think

Johnny: 00:09:04

about them or make them seem less than they hope that people see them as

Johnny: 00:09:09

being, have you ever come across that?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:09:11

Oh, sure.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:09:13

mean, I think we all have feelings about our stories and how they might

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:09:18

be received lead us to be anxious.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:09:20

And it's hard to know how much do we pull back the curtain, right?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:09:24

How much do we share with whom?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:09:27

So some of it is a question of confidence and.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:09:30

Trust that this is a valuable way to share who you are with other people.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:09:36

And some of it is knowing your audience and sort of understanding, well, who are

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:09:41

they and am I telling this story to them?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:09:45

what is it that I hope that they'll take away from it?

Johnny: 00:09:48

Yeah.Yeah.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:09:49

Think knowing the purpose of sharing the stories first.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:09:54

And having clarity about how we want to make the audience feel on the other

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:01

side of the screen or the table is a great starting point because when

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:05

we're clear, oh, this is the experience that I want to give them by sharing.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:10

These elements from my life.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:11

Well, then we've got someof the recipes started for r what we're going to share.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:16

Right.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:16

And just say, okay, if I want them to feel this way, if I want them

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:19

to have these thoughts about who I am or who my organization is then

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:24

how am I going to get them there?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:26

Well, I have to be a bit vulnerable.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:27

Right.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:28

And about what comfort level is with vulnerability and how much

Johnny: 00:10:34

Mm.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:34

share?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:35

I guess communicate that experience and what are you comfortable with?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:38

Cause you gotta be comfortable, right?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:39

Nobody wants to see or hear you know, go out on the ledge and then, throw one

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:45

foot over the ledge while we're talking.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:47

It's just makes us all uncomfortable.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:49

So some of it is also knowing what's your edge, so to speak

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:52

and you can take a small step.

Johnny: 00:10:52

Yeah.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:53

right?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:10:53

Don't have to do the whole confessional.

Johnny: 00:10:56

In your work then as an executive coach, where do stories coming?

Johnny: 00:11:02

Can you give an example of how you utilize them when you're working with.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:11:07

Sure.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:11:08

Well, I can give one example of working with someone a keynote and they're trying

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:11:12

to figure out how do they communicate the story, the journey of business.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:11:22

And I try to find out what are those moments along the journey that we're

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:11:27

really challenging and choose one that they might be comfortable sharing.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:11:33

And then I ask them to of go into their imaginations so I can invite all

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:11:39

of you who are listening out there to do the same right now is think, Okay.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:11:43

what's a little crisis.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:11:45

Maybe from yesterday, maybe from the past year, you know,

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:11:49

there've been a few, right.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:11:51

And go into that in your mind's eye.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:11:54

Like you're watching a movie.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:11:58

And try to see and hear, and sense all that's going on.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:12:05

So I try to help the folks that I'm working with.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:12:07

Go back into that room, back into that felt experience and bring

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:12:12

it alive for them and choose a few details that are going to

Johnny: 00:12:17

Yeah.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:12:17

it alive for the reader so that the reader can come there with us.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:12:22

I think that's one of the challenges and the fun in storytelling is that.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:12:27

It's so vivid to us, it is that movie playing in our head.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:12:31

We can see it and smell it.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:12:33

And especially if it was something challenging a big intense

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:12:37

experience, it's very vivid.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:12:40

And yet the audience isn't going to get it.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:12:42

If we just say something.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:12:45

Right.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:12:45

Like there were these people, we had this conversation, amazing things happen.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:12:50

that's way I try to coach people to bring us the experience that

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:12:57

you had with those details.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:13:00

And it doesn't matter so much, which details you choose as long

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:13:03

as they feel authentic and real and help bring the story alive.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:13:08

I could add that you can have fun with the details and try to pick things

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:13:11

that will reflect someone's character.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:13:14

Someone in my office that I had never met were wearing a sweatshirt and jeans

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:13:22

and the baseball hat was on backwards, but I could tell right away that they

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:13:27

were no ordinary venture capital kind of.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:13:31

Gal.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:13:32

So that paints a picture right there.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:13:36

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:13:37

Interesting.

Johnny: 00:13:38

Now you work with executives in your coaching and you help them with

Johnny: 00:13:42

things like keynote, as you said, with presentation skills and storytelling.

Johnny: 00:13:47

Why is that in your opinion?

Johnny: 00:13:49

So important for executives and people in high level.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:13:56

well, it's important because I think when we're talking

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:14:02

about our business and talking about where we want our organization to

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:14:06

go, whatever the mission might be, we need to build trust and relationship

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:14:11

with the people we're talking to.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:14:14

And so it really does come through speaking one way or another.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:14:19

That speaking can also be on the page, but we need to give them some idea

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:14:23

of our multidimensionality right.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:14:26

And that the business has an origin story.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:14:28

And we have an origin story that, we bring threads from our journey

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:14:33

into the work that we're doing.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:14:36

Right.

Johnny: 00:14:36

Yeah.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:14:37

so, you know, if you grew up with a dad who was a

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:14:41

firefighter and a mom who was a middle school teacher in a little community,

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:14:45

That may be a piece of your story.

Johnny: 00:14:48

Um,

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:14:48

I am, you know, running this with hundreds of employees and

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:14:53

what I bring to it every day is that sense of caring about the people where

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:14:57

we live and taking care of people.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:14:59

And there could even be a story, like a short little story about You know

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:15:04

about a parent, if that was meaningful or about something that you experienced

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:15:08

along your journey to get where you are today and why chose this profession.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:15:14

that's important because we just yearn to know who we're listening to and

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:15:18

who's leading us or who were inspired by what's behind the inspiration.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:15:23

What do you think, does that, does that resonate for you?

Johnny: 00:15:26

It does, you know, I've, I've been around public speaking organizations

Johnny: 00:15:31

like Toastmasters for quite some time.

Johnny: 00:15:33

And one of the things that I see most commonly, especially with a lot of

Johnny: 00:15:37

people who do come there to Polish their skills for business is that there is

Johnny: 00:15:42

this tendency to deliver information and.

Johnny: 00:15:46

Pretty much just information and it's impersonal and it's kind of boring.

Johnny: 00:15:53

And the reality is I think that Dan and chip Heath in Made To Stick at this very

Johnny: 00:15:58

well, people just don't remember it.

Johnny: 00:16:00

If you think about any presentation you've ever been to people think, oh no, I'm

Johnny: 00:16:04

going to pack this full of information.

Johnny: 00:16:05

I'm going to deliver all this great stuff at the end of it.

Johnny: 00:16:08

How much are you really going to remember?

Johnny: 00:16:11

But attach a story to it and you will you'll remember.

Johnny: 00:16:15

We remember stories.

Johnny: 00:16:16

We, uh, I think this is Lisa Cron says we're wired for stories

Johnny: 00:16:20

and I think that's very true.

Johnny: 00:16:23

So I know people have fear around sometimes adding stories in, or I've

Johnny: 00:16:27

even had people saying they don't

Johnny: 00:16:28

I really have stories of their own.

Johnny: 00:16:31

How do you know what kind of stories are appropriate and how

Johnny: 00:16:36

would you help a client of yours?

Johnny: 00:16:38

Pull out some stories for a presentation that would be appropriate.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:16:43

Yeah, that's a wonderful question.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:16:45

You know, what's coming to mind first and I don't do this often, but it

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:16:49

could be fun to do a little kind of a self 360 where you actually ask

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:16:54

clients, if you're someone who does share anecdotes at times already.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:16:58

If they remember any of them and if so, which ones So for someone

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:17:02

going forward, who's thinking, Yeah.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:17:04

what do I share?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:17:05

What's a fit.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:17:07

I would ask yourself, what is it that person you're going to be speaking

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:17:12

with or the group you're going to be speaking with really cares about what

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:17:17

is the of journey that they are taking or that you want them to take from

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:17:24

here, the here and now into the future, and try to choose a story that that.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:17:31

So.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:17:33

On the one hand I I've coached someone who's searching for a new position

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:17:38

within a very big organization and said, well, you might start this conversation

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:17:43

by framing it with a memory of a time you had in working with this person.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:17:50

You know, that

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:17:50

you've worked with for years and how in working with that person.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:17:55

You had this set of challenges and goals and how you got there, so

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:18:00

that the, the story that you kind of open with has that trajectory in it.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:18:05

On the other hand, you may have situations where you want to share a story.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:18:09

That's not so serious and businessy to start out.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:18:13

You know, I did a post recently about

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:18:16

A football star.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:18:19

So got a son who's 11 and plays soccer as we call it here in the states.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:18:25

And decided I just wanted to put out there.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:18:28

The inspiration I had gained from watching the world cup.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:18:30

This was a few years ago, but it really stayed with me.

Johnny: 00:18:34

Yeah,

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:18:34

well, these people like sports and I'm going

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:18:36

to just find some parallel here between something in the sport.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:18:40

You know, maybe you can talk about a player that they know in common,

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:18:44

let's say it's Ronaldo, you know, you just say, oh, well this is what I see

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:18:47

out on the pitch when he's out there.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:18:49

Right.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:18:50

And so to that's how I roll, you know, in my career.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:18:55

That's an example of ways to tune into the audience and think it doesn't

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:19:00

have to all be about business at hand.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:19:02

It can be an analogy, right?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:19:04

You can use that as a metaphor.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:19:05

So that would be another way.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:19:06

And then I guess they would add Johnny that we often have stories happening

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:19:12

to us, and we just don't really take note of it in the rush of our lives.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:19:15

So some of it is just developing that.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:19:20

Kind of that lens where we recognize, oh, there's a bit of a story in that

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:19:26

can be some mishap from the day, right?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:19:28

Or some off-handed conversation, or something that you, you read in the news

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:19:33

and any of that can actually be material

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:19:35

for story.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:19:37

What matters is that

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:19:39

it really caught hold of you and figuring out why and seeing if

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:19:44

you can share some of that in the context that you're moving into.

Johnny: 00:19:48

yeah, I think when it comes to actually putting together a

Johnny: 00:19:53

presentation or anything that you might be delivering publicly, or

Johnny: 00:19:58

even thinking about telling stories.

Johnny: 00:20:01

It's hard to sometimes come up with those stories on the spot

Johnny: 00:20:06

while you're doing the preparation.

Johnny: 00:20:08

Is it then a good idea to start thinking about collecting your stories

Johnny: 00:20:15

in advance of those things so that you have a resource available for you?

Johnny: 00:20:21

And if so, what's the best way do you think to do that?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:20:27

Yes, that's a great idea to start and the, how

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:20:30

would depend on who you are and how you capture information in general?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:20:36

You know, years ago I kept a little tiny notebook in my pocket.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:20:40

Sounds very old school, but it seemed to work in a very small pen.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:20:44

You know, I also of course use the note function on my phone

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:20:49

cause that's right at hand.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:20:50

You might think about a time of day when you reflect on the day

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:20:56

you know or enjoying your morning.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:20:58

Coffee and a running list.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:21:01

Some people I know keep it like in an Excel sheet.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:21:05

One storyteller who I really admire his name is Matthew Dicks.

Johnny: 00:21:09

I know Matthew he's been on the show.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:21:10

has wonderful.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:21:12

Oh, I'll have to listen to that episode.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:21:14

he talks about homework for life and you know, he's very disciplined, so it

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:21:18

works for him to go into this Excel sheet and, you know, he makes himself write

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:21:22

down a certain number every evening, know, and he may not like them all, but

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:21:27

it really sort of builds this muscle.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:21:29

Right.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:21:30

I don't know if you talked about that.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:21:32

But you know, that any of us can do.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:21:36

It's just about finding the container and making it then lo and behold,

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:21:40

you have all these bits and pieces and there's some gems in there.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:21:43

No doubt.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:21:44

So I would just say making it a practice one way or another, you

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:21:47

also can build it into a staff.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:21:50

So I work with both businesses and nonprofits.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:21:52

And what I found as an executive leader in the nonprofit space is building in

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:21:57

questions about stories to ask people who are out in the field is very powerful.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:22:02

That it's just almost ritual that in the meeting we check in.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:22:06

So from the past week or the past month, you know, what are some highlights of

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:22:11

the interactions that we had with the people we're serving and just sort of.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:22:16

Go around the group and collect them that way.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:22:18

Cause it's hard to find time.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:22:19

Right.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:22:19

And we always have big

Johnny: 00:22:20

Yeah,

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:22:21

but it's a matter of how do you just embed it in what you're doing?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:22:24

Or in one-on-one conversations?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:22:27

Tell me my point?

Johnny: 00:22:29

I liked that I liked the idea of encouraging other

Johnny: 00:22:31

people to share their stories.

Johnny: 00:22:33

And I think there's a lot of power in that because people like to be

Johnny: 00:22:37

heard and people that they maybe have the stories in their head, but

Johnny: 00:22:40

don't pay much attention to them.

Johnny: 00:22:42

So getting to share them and actually being heard on that,

Johnny: 00:22:44

create some recognition and yeah, hopefully some insight for people

Johnny: 00:22:49

and hopefully stories to use too.

Johnny: 00:22:51

In the way that you do with executives.

Johnny: 00:22:55

I was wondering like a lot of the people who change their show, perhaps coaches,

Johnny: 00:22:58

speakers, trainers, or maybe work in those sorts of environments as well.

Johnny: 00:23:02

But if you are doing something like an online presentation or course or program,

Johnny: 00:23:08

how might you incorporate or weave stories into what you do in a way that's

Johnny: 00:23:13

going to entertain, engage and educate.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:23:19

Great question because we are so much in this virtual world.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:23:25

You know, one thing I'll share that I find myself saying more to clients lately

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:23:29

is help the audience with you when you are heading into the land of story.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:23:38

Even if the story is short, give them a little.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:23:46

Invitation.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:23:47

you might pause in what you're saying and take a breath and say, so now I want

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:23:53

to share a moment I had in the depths of COVID in and you let there be another

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:24:04

breath and you let people settle in.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:24:08

Even if it's going to be a short story that will change up the.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:24:12

And

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:24:12

help them Listen differently than if you just keep going at the pace you've

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:24:17

been going and slip the story in.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:24:20

And then of course, the wisdom that everyone whostory knows as wellws

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:24:25

as well as that you want to drop them into the middle of the action.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:24:29

if you can, if it fits right.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:24:30

So think about how you're going to drop the audience into the

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:24:32

middle of the action of your story.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:24:34

And the other thing is, invite them to themselves on something that

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:24:41

is along the lines of the story.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:24:43

You're going to tell, think back to last year, think back to five years

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:24:47

ago, where were you just to get their brains rolling a little differently than.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:24:52

That passive listening.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:24:53

I think that's one of the challenges of being here on the screen is that you don't

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:24:58

have the body language and the atmosphere, the shared atmosphere that you're in.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:25:05

how do we bring more attention, I suppose?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:25:09

How do we bring more?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:25:10

Wakefulness into the conversation and it's by changing up and it's by

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:25:14

asking a question or inviting them to come along with us in some way.

Johnny: 00:25:19

Yeah.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:25:19

silence can do that.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:25:20

And I think a signal like you know, let me tell you about a time when,

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:25:26

and I think dropping people in the middle of the action with that detail

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:25:29

that brings them into the moment.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:25:31

Those

Johnny: 00:25:32

Yeah.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:25:32

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:25:34

I like that.

Johnny: 00:25:34

I like that theme.

Johnny: 00:25:36

The communication side is really important.

Johnny: 00:25:39

I, I feel, uh, stories are a great way to help people feel more connected to

Johnny: 00:25:44

you and remember more of what you're talking about and also change up the

Johnny: 00:25:49

energy and pacing of what you talk about so that it stays engaging interactive.

Johnny: 00:25:54

And these are, these are all things we, we touched on.

Johnny: 00:25:57

When somebody comes to you, I imagine that they're thinking, well, I want to be, I

Johnny: 00:26:01

want to be as good as you are doing that.

Johnny: 00:26:03

I want to be a really cool communicator and speaker and

Johnny: 00:26:07

be able to tell, tell stories.

Johnny: 00:26:10

What's the very first thing that you do with a client who comes to you wanting to

Johnny: 00:26:15

improve their presentations and keynotes.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:26:21

Well, I think the first question is, is is your end goal?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:26:26

Where do you want this speaking better storytelling to take you?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:26:34

Because the answer to that will how I coach the person, right?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:26:40

And how we move through the questions of using stories in their work.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:26:45

Do they envision that they want to write a.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:26:48

Do they have a keynote for a very specific type of an audience?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:26:52

Do they want to be funnier and just get people laughing through the nuttiness

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:26:58

of the way things are and sort of develop their inner with their team.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:01

So I think getting clarity about that first, you know, maybe it's

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:05

more for personal development.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:06

They say, you know, I just have always done explore my life story.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:11

And I don't know where it's going to go.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:13

It could be a talk, it could, could be a book.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:15

It could be, you know, material that I'm feeding into my blog post,

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:18

but I just want to craft my story.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:19

So that would be first is to hear what ideas they have so far about.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:24

I think of it kind of like the containers, because if they have a specific idea,

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:27

then I'll say, okay, If want to create, a talk that you're going to give.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:33

And then I ask, of course, if it's virtual, or are they thinking

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:36

about doing it up on the stage?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:37

Um, I try to get an idea of how much of their story is it, how much of it is

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:43

going to be the story of the organization?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:45

The call to action.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:46

That might be part of it go from there.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:49

The proportion of the personal and the professional and just

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:52

get a feeling of the tone.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:54

You know, I need to spend time with the person to get to know kind of

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:27:57

who they are, what their strengths are and what their character is

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:28:00

like to help bring that forth.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:28:03

Uh, and then diving into the, the, all the material that they

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:28:07

don't even know that they have.

Johnny: 00:28:09

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:28:09

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:28:10

I will often say to potential clients and customers, whether I'm working with

Johnny: 00:28:15

them on presentation skills or not there.

Johnny: 00:28:17

I believe that being able to speak and present well.

Johnny: 00:28:22

Is no longer an option when it comes to leadership roles and C-suite and

Johnny: 00:28:28

above everybody has to do this now just in some way, shape or form, especially

Johnny: 00:28:33

if you are a business owner or an entrepreneur, it is absolutely critical.

Johnny: 00:28:38

Would you agree with that?

Johnny: 00:28:39

And is there anything you would add to that?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:28:42

Oh, I certainly is critical.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:28:45

And I would say being aware of what of your platforms are, where your voice up

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:28:53

very important to look at that array, the blog, The vlog, the vlog, conversations

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:29:02

with the team, the conversations with clients, and really get that?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:29:05

full picture because the material you can develop is material

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:29:09

you can use in all platforms.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:29:12

I don't think there's a limit.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:29:14

And so the work that you invest to develop your voice and become.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:29:23

Even more of who you are, whether it's on the page or on

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:29:27

the stage is time and effort.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:29:30

Very well-spent.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:29:32

Um, I think sometimes we aren't aware of places where we could amplify our voice

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:29:38

and bring in more color and dimension.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:29:40

Right.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:29:41

Bring in more anecdotes.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:29:42

They don't need to be long again, um, to engage.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:29:46

The people who are reading are the people who are listening.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:29:49

So I think that's the first step is really thinking of it as a whole mosaic.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:29:53

And what is everything, and maybe you want to add something to it

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:29:55

too, but I definitely agree with you, Johnny, that it's critical.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:29:59

It's also, I think I find with clients a way of crafting a better magnet.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:30:06

And by that, I mean, you developing your voice.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:30:11

And making it authentic and bringing forth of the color of who you are

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:30:20

and what your business or your nonprofit, your, what your mission is.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:30:25

You are creating a stronger pull to draw in the people that you really want to work

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:30:32

with you're showing more of who you are.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:30:34

Right.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:30:35

You're pulling back that curtain a little.

Johnny: 00:30:37

Yeah.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:30:38

will attract those people better.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:30:39

So that's, I think a silver lining, I guess, to this reality that

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:30:44

yes, we do need to spend all of us more time thinking about how you

Johnny: 00:30:48

Yeah.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:30:48

ourselves out there.

Johnny: 00:30:50

Pretty much and, and how we're seen by other people as well.

Johnny: 00:30:53

This is part of cultivating your professional image or

Johnny: 00:30:57

professional brand as well.

Johnny: 00:30:59

Even if you're working in a corporation, you still need to have your brand,

Johnny: 00:31:03

do your mark, that you put on things.

Johnny: 00:31:06

And I think it's a great way to be thinking about it with particular

Johnny: 00:31:10

regards to the business sector.

Johnny: 00:31:13

Who are some of the people we may be able to identify who are killing it,

Johnny: 00:31:18

who do a really good job of presenting and storytelling in how they speak

Johnny: 00:31:24

to companies, organizations, or whoever, whoever they're presenting to.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:31:29

Hm.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:31:30

you want me to name drop here?

Johnny: 00:31:32

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:31:33

If you can think of a few particular people, that would be great.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:31:36

Yeah.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:31:37

I'm working with companies and organizations.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:31:40

Yeah, That's a great question.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:31:42

Well, I've mentioned Dorie Clark.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:31:44

Um, I think there's sort of a range of up and down.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:31:49

I mean, I think of someone who really speaks to the writer in me is Seth.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:31:56

I think he's a really gifted at illuminating what it means to

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:32:01

communicate well and, you know, get going on, on your on your best voice.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:32:07

So he's another one.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:32:09

Um, my mind's kind of like, flooded right now with people, Johnny.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:32:12

So if I think about like who's,

Johnny: 00:32:16

That's a nice problem to have.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:32:17

Yes.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:32:17

Like who's, who's really killing it.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:32:19

You know, I'm thinking of someone I'm trying to remember his name.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:32:22

He works with IBM.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:32:24

And I've just come across him recently.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:32:26

Maybe the name will come back to me in a moment.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:32:28

But I also think of people who are less well known who are you know, Out

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:32:34

there just doing amazing consulting.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:32:36

I mean, I think of Ruth Forenga I think is her name.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:32:39

And she's really got this mindfulness orientation in her work with organizations

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:32:46

she's really about conscious leadership.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:32:47

I don't know if you know her work.

Johnny: 00:32:50

No, no, I don't.

Johnny: 00:32:51

I'll check out.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:32:52

Yeah, she's part of this group in the UK called drive.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:32:56

And it's headed up by someone who is a business mentor and advisor and Hawkins.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:33:02

and it's fun to know these people who aren't, you know, sort of like the big

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:33:06

shining stars, like the Dorie Clark or the Alyssa cone who works with startups.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:33:12

I also admire But it's fun to think of the people who a, a smaller practice, right.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:33:17

Who don't have like hundreds of thousands of followers and

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:33:20

what are they doing sort of out.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:33:22

there on the edge.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:33:23

So there, those are a few people come to mind.

Johnny: 00:33:25

Yeah, it's interesting.

Johnny: 00:33:27

One of the, one client who I worked for back, and I wrote about this in a blog

Johnny: 00:33:31

recently when we started talking about.

Johnny: 00:33:34

Some presentations and online work, her initial fear was that she was

Johnny: 00:33:42

perhaps going to not be able to go to the supermarket anymore because of

Johnny: 00:33:46

people wanting her autograph and that, well, I'm not saying that that couldn't

Johnny: 00:33:51

happen, but it is very unlikely that that's going to impact your personal

Johnny: 00:33:57

life in that kind of way, because most of the people were talking about.

Johnny: 00:34:01

Like Hollywood A-list stars.

Johnny: 00:34:04

They are just general random people who you may recognize them in the supermarket,

Johnny: 00:34:10

but even then, you're probably not going to go up to them unless you really

Johnny: 00:34:13

feel some, some connection to them.

Johnny: 00:34:15

And then is to say that.

Johnny: 00:34:16

So, so probably not, but but it's interesting how people perceive

Johnny: 00:34:20

this thing of putting themselves into public life and it is worth

Johnny: 00:34:25

considering how you're going to be seen.

Johnny: 00:34:26

But what do you think are perhaps the more realistic but positive and negative

Johnny: 00:34:32

points of having more of a public profile.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:34:38

well, that's an interesting question.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:34:43

yeah, I mean, I think that you have to.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:34:47

The extra careful, you know, you have sort of more at stake if you have, you

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:34:53

know, so, so very many followers and you have to of course have a bigger

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:34:57

team and delegate for some of the work.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:00

So you have sort of more layers.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:01

I think some of the fun of being an entrepreneur and having a small

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:06

shop is that you're very close to the communications right there.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:10

Aren't a lot of layers.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:12

And I think also it's harder to stay in touch with what's

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:15

happening out in the field.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:16

Right.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:17

To know what, what's the experience of the people who really delivering

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:21

the services out on the front lines.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:23

It's hard.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:24

I take, takes work to stay in touch with that.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:27

I think it's easy to get swept up in that high level strategic work with people who

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:32

are in your circle by necessity, right?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:35

There's a lot, there's a lot to be done.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:37

Um, so I think those are a couple of pieces around communication and

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:42

yeah, what you're in touch with and how you just sort of, stay real, you

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:47

know, and don't let, don't let the feedback sort of get to your head.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:50

And I think the people that I admire are ones where I feel like they

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:53

really, they stay real and they stay true them, themselves in the way

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:35:59

they were they became all and famous.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:36:02

Right.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:36:02

They can still laugh at themselves right there.

Johnny: 00:36:06

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:36:07

I, I just, yeah, I do sometimes wonder if there is, it's interesting that when,

Johnny: 00:36:11

when you have the smaller following of people who are kind of committed to,

Johnny: 00:36:14

and you can be more connected to that, you, you are more based in the reality

Johnny: 00:36:19

of what's going on, but I do often see for some people when they rise up.

Johnny: 00:36:24

They sometimes lose that connection on that journey of rising up, because

Johnny: 00:36:29

I guess they are more public figures.

Johnny: 00:36:32

They're more, well-known, they're more likely to be recognized in

Johnny: 00:36:35

public life and and that could be an issue for them, but it also creates

Johnny: 00:36:40

a level of perhaps detachment from what they do because it's essential.

Johnny: 00:36:44

I mean, at some level, When you have a big enough audience, you have to

Johnny: 00:36:48

detach at least to some degree, right.

Johnny: 00:36:51

To be able to protect your own private life and the have

Johnny: 00:36:54

some time away from things?

Johnny: 00:36:55

So you know, although that might, may seem desirable for people to have

Johnny: 00:37:00

that huge following and become a big online meet online star or speaking

Johnny: 00:37:05

star, wherever it does come with some of those things, maybe not to this,

Johnny: 00:37:10

or if you're going to be followed around by the paparazzi kind of thing,

Johnny: 00:37:12

but being frequently recognized and having to be that bit more careful as you say

Johnny: 00:37:18

about about how you interact with people and protecting your, yourself and your

Johnny: 00:37:24

own mental health as a part of that too.

Johnny: 00:37:26

So, yeah.

Johnny: 00:37:28

You have to take your pick, I guess, do you want to go, go big and deal with all

Johnny: 00:37:32

of those sides of things or keep things in a sort of a high level, but not too big?

Johnny: 00:37:37

Not that you have to make any big changes or adjust to private life,

Johnny: 00:37:41

just keep that deeper connection.

Johnny: 00:37:43

It's a tough choice.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:37:44

it is a tough choice.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:37:45

You know, it's a question it'd be fun to ask folks who have a big following

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:37:50

know, The person that I wanted to reference earlier is Jeremy Connell.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:37:56

Wait e it's Connell is C O N N E L L and a it's a hyphenated.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:38:02

Waite, w a I T E I find his material compelling around

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:38:08

communications and story.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:38:10

He's the one at IBM.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:38:11

And I think it's partly because he keeps it.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:38:13

You know, in his video material, you can see he's like a kid in a

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:38:17

candy store with some topics, right?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:38:19

He's having all the fun with the research he's doing and the ways

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:38:24

he's, he's thinking and what he's excited to share with us.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:38:27

And, and my hunch is, you know, he has to say very present and conscious

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:38:31

to keep that, keep that spirit about.

Johnny: 00:38:36

Yeah, absolutely.

Johnny: 00:38:37

So, I wanted to come back to something you mentioned earlier about human

Johnny: 00:38:41

comedy, because I know that this is something that a lot of people in,

Johnny: 00:38:46

especially in corporate presentations, professional presentations are

Johnny: 00:38:49

really scared about doing and people will try and stay away from that.

Johnny: 00:38:55

How can you start to bring that in, in a way that's going to feel appropriate

Johnny: 00:39:00

and not be scary, like not thinking that you have to get on stage and be tonight,

Johnny: 00:39:05

stand up act, but actually just maybe help create a bit more rapport and relaxation

Johnny: 00:39:11

and connection with your audience.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:39:15

humour is, such a great topic.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:39:17

Well, it's great to start in some way with yourself.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:39:22

And the small catastrophe, can be a good source if you're not too, too introverted.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:39:28

That's a great well to draw from because there's always new material.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:39:33

And think about when you find yourself laughing at yourself when your friends

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:39:39

and family are laughing at you what is so you what troubles you get yourself into?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:39:45

Because all love hearing people who are able to laugh at themselves.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:39:50

Yeah, we all do.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:39:50

Like I was thinking, yeah, I could share with you Johnny that you know,

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:39:54

I just, I love talking with people that I remember this time of sort

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:39:58

of self-consciousness when I'm in a parking lot at the grocery store and

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:01

there was this truck parked there.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:04

I don't know how many wheels.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:05

It definitely had more than 18 wheels on it.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:07

It was this massive truck in this not very big parking lot.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:10

And I thought, well, maybe he's lost.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:13

Who knows what?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:14

He's got a story, right.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:18

It was an unmarked truck, so who knows.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:19

But I said to my son, let's go ask him if he needs help or what he's up to.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:24

And this conversation ensued, you know, he was from down in Arkansas we talked

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:30

about he was carrying in that truck.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:34

I can't even remember anymore.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:35

And I just had this moment of like, yeah, here I am stepping

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:40

up on the little ladder thing.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:42

And this chatting with this trucker, I'm like, that is so me, you know,

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:47

and, and bringing my son along with me.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:49

And thinking, that's a story I could work up to let people know

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:53

that I'm just always interested.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:55

I'm interested in helping somebody who's lost.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:57

I'm interested in what his story is.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:40:59

He came from somewhere and he's going somewhere.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:41:00

He has a job to do.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:41:01

And that's a very, every day.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:41:05

Right, it does give you a little color and it's out of the office.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:41:08

That's a nice, that's a nice dimension to it.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:41:10

And funny would be to find, you know, one that has a, more

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:41:13

of a mishap involved, right?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:41:15

Yeah, like the time when, you know, I was going cross country and just

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:41:19

camping wherever I could, and identified this little park on the map in this

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:41:25

place called Lowell, Massachusetts.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:41:27

And I wasn't really familiar with Lowell and I was like, oh great.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:41:30

There's a national park.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:41:31

I'll just pull up, pull up and spend the night there.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:41:34

Well, it's completely an urban There was nowhere to sleep.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:41:39

And then I find myself driving into these crazy neighborhoods in Lowell and asking

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:41:43

these people in random gas stations.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:41:45

If there's anywhere to go camping, this might not be the smartest thing

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:41:50

to do to be getting out of my car.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:41:52

It's like 20 something innocent looking young woman.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:41:56

And so that's something where I could just play up that story about, how sometimes

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:42:01

I just jump into things and I don't, it

Johnny: 00:42:03

Yeah.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:42:03

the map and let's go for it.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:42:05

And this will all work out.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:42:07

So thinking of your stories and mishaps is a great place to start.

Johnny: 00:42:11

Hmm, I thinkI think so.

Johnny: 00:42:13

I, Iknow if you've ever heard of a, an English, Irish really, a talk

Johnny: 00:42:17

show host called Graham Norton, but on, on his chat show, in the,

Johnny: 00:42:21

in the UK is on BBC every Friday.

Johnny: 00:42:23

I think.

Johnny: 00:42:25

He does this segment at the end of the show where he has members of the audience

Johnny: 00:42:29

come and tell a story from their lives.

Johnny: 00:42:32

And the idea is that they're meant to entertain with their story.

Johnny: 00:42:35

And if they're not very entertaining, they pull a lever

Johnny: 00:42:37

and they get thrown off the chair.

Johnny: 00:42:39

I think it was kind of funny.

Johnny: 00:42:41

I always find it interesting.

Johnny: 00:42:42

I haven't watched it for a while, but often when.

Johnny: 00:42:46

People from the UK who are in the chair because he does have people

Johnny: 00:42:49

who are English speaking from other countries in the audience to.

Johnny: 00:42:53

That the stories of the mishaps that perhaps were entertaining

Johnny: 00:42:58

nearly always involve getting caught short for the toilet and needing

Johnny: 00:43:03

something involving bodily functions.

Johnny: 00:43:06

There's nearly, always, just to me, it's just kind of gross.

Johnny: 00:43:09

I don't ask me why english people particularly seem to find that so funny,

Johnny: 00:43:13

but that seems to be a theme for a lot of those sorts of mishap stories.

Johnny: 00:43:19

And to me, it's a bit like, oh, good grief.

Johnny: 00:43:21

Another story about somebody who.

Johnny: 00:43:24

Diarrhea and unfortunate time for a job interview as I'm about.

Johnny: 00:43:28

It's not as funny as people think it is.

Johnny: 00:43:32

And that's definitely something I think people should stay, stay

Johnny: 00:43:36

well away from it, especially in, in professional presentations.

Johnny: 00:43:40

Do you think people should stay away from stories about.

Johnny: 00:43:44

Bodily functions and fluids and the likes when it comes to

Johnny: 00:43:48

professional life storytelling,

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:43:51

you know, I haven't thought about that.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:43:53

it's not one of my go-to's.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:43:55

I would say, know your audience is what matters.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:43:58

And if you want to it safe, talk more about food.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:44:04

As an example, Which is, you know, so central everyone can relate to it.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:44:09

So some disaster at a restaurant or some blow up in your own kitchen and

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:44:16

there's mess involved and that might be a way to still hit some of the.

Johnny: 00:44:22

Well,Well,

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:44:22

r notes going all the way to the bathroom humor.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:44:26

But

Johnny: 00:44:26

Yeah,

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:44:26

knowing your audience, right?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:44:27

I, I don't, I don't know that there's any hard and fast

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:44:30

rules when it comes to humor.

Johnny: 00:44:32

I guess if you're present, perhaps if you're presenting in the

Johnny: 00:44:35

toilet industry or something like that, maybe that's incredibly appropriate.

Johnny: 00:44:39

So I guess there could betimes where, whether it is and and it t does depend

Johnny: 00:44:44

on who you're actually speaking to.

Johnny: 00:44:46

So maybe nothing is completely off the cards, but what were some of the

Johnny: 00:44:51

stories that you like to use in your presentations, funny or otherwise that

Johnny: 00:44:56

that you have had great results with.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:45:00

Well, that is bit more serious is.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:45:05

From the world of farming that I shared with my staff when I was a leader.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:45:10

And what I said to them once in a meeting was that I had known of a farmer who, you

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:45:17

know, came to this time in the year when a lot of the crops are ready for harvest.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:45:24

And he pulled together the team, that's a bunch of 20 somethings and

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:45:28

said, You know, you all know that the weeds have taken over a lot of the

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:45:34

crops and we are way, way, way behind.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:45:40

And by the way, my organization was way behind on a few things.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:45:44

And what the farmer said was those rows of broccoli over there.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:45:56

That we are going to be ready to harvest soon.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:45:59

What we need to do today is actually plow them under.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:46:05

And the young people look at him with huge eyes.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:46:08

Like he's talking about tilling money into the ground, which he is,

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:46:14

but what he said is is that will let ustch up with the rest of the crops.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:46:22

We cannot do it all.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:46:24

And that broccoli will feed the soil.

Johnny: 00:46:27

Yeah.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:46:27

this is our way forward.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:46:29

And so they did, and indeed they were able to catch.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:46:37

And it's a great lesson sometimes we have to make tough choices and that

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:46:42

we cannot weed out everything down all the projects that we have on our

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:46:45

plate, that other circumstances come up and leadership is making those tough,

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:46:51

unlikely decisions to plow things under.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:46:55

So that's an example of a story that just came in passing, you know,

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:46:59

from the life of a farmer and struck me as such a powerful metaphor.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:47:04

And so I've told this story before I realized in hindsight was that

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:47:09

it became part of our culture.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:47:10

It became part of our, kind of our language as an organization that we

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:47:16

didn't necessarily share this with the outside world, but we would share with.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:47:20

each other knowingly that.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:47:25

That item, that task that we're not getting to broccoli, isn't it.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:47:30

And we wouldwould all nod and kindhuckle because it sounded so funny, but it

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:47:34

was, and the metaphor and the story really helped us that it's a tough

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:47:39

moment to circle up and say, Yeah.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:47:40

we're going to plow that under and let it go.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:47:42

And just trust we've done so far will serve us and feed us

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:47:47

and we've got to just move on.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:47:49

So that's one example.

Johnny: 00:47:51

No.

Johnny: 00:47:51

I love that that shared, shared metaphors, like that are very, very powerful

Johnny: 00:47:55

and that's definitely very effective.

Johnny: 00:47:59

There's so much I could ask you because this is such an interesting

Johnny: 00:48:01

topic for me but I know that we do have to consider the time as well.

Johnny: 00:48:05

So I do want to ask you, because we were about influence and persuasion

Johnny: 00:48:08

here in the show and storytelling of course, is a critical part of

Johnny: 00:48:11

building your influence and persuasion.

Johnny: 00:48:12

Is that your greatest superpower in influence and persuasion or

Johnny: 00:48:16

would you choose something else?

Johnny: 00:48:17

If I say you, what's your, what is your greatest strength when it

Johnny: 00:48:19

comes to influence and persuasion?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:48:25

Well, I'd say my greatest strength coach is.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:48:29

I love helping other people improve their influence and persuasion.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:48:32

And it's really through creating a space listening so that people can go

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:48:38

deeper into their stories so that people can time travel with me into what they

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:48:46

have felt and seen and known to be true in the life of their organization.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:48:52

And then go deeper still.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:48:54

And.

Johnny: 00:48:54

Yeah.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:48:56

Where I influence and persuade is that

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:48:58

people can take those risks.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:49:01

They can move into places that may feel vulnerable in developing their material.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:49:06

And what will from that more powerful than they daredare to imagine.

Johnny: 00:49:16

Ntastic.Let me ask you this then, ass he comes on this show gets

Johnny: 00:49:20

asked for a book recommendation and that could be related to the topic or not.

Johnny: 00:49:25

Could just be a book that you have found very powerful that

Johnny: 00:49:28

you like recommending to other people, but what would you choose?

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:49:32

It's a book that a number of people may

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:49:34

know called talk like Ted, um,

Johnny: 00:49:38

Yeah, I think I've read that.

Johnny: 00:49:39

Yeah.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:49:40

And it's Carmine Gallo and I found it extremely helpful

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:49:45

developing my own speech writing.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:49:48

The talks that I gave at big events or at conferences a wonderful teacher

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:49:52

and it is just also a good read.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:49:54

There's a reason it was a wall street journal best.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:49:57

So talk like Ted he even writes a good title.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:49:59

I mean, who doesn't want to talk like Ted the nine public speaking

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:50:02

secrets of the world's top minds?

Johnny: 00:50:06

Yeah, helpful.

Johnny: 00:50:06

But I, I read that and a few others of his, I think his most recent book

Johnny: 00:50:10

I read as well and got some, some value from so a great recommendation.

Johnny: 00:50:13

Thank you.

Johnny: 00:50:14

One thing I would like to ask then, based on, we talked a lot about storytelling

Johnny: 00:50:18

and bringing that into professional life.

Johnny: 00:50:20

What's one thing you hope people will most remember or take

Johnny: 00:50:23

away from this conversation.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:50:27

oh, I hope you all will know.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:50:31

With more conviction, how you can serve other people by

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:50:38

telling your story and telling

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:50:39

Of your story.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:50:42

It can seem self-centered sometimes right.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:50:45

We're talking about ourselves and things that we've experienced.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:50:49

I invite you to think about it as a service to others a gift to others.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:50:55

And I hope you take away that part of your.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:50:59

Opportunity.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:50:59

And I think obligation as a human to share the inspiration.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:51:04

You've got

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:51:05

the wisdom from the life you've lived with others.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:51:08

It's it's a gift to other people.

Johnny: 00:51:11

Yeah, life is the stories that we create.

Johnny: 00:51:14

And I, I live to be a better storyteller, so I appreciate

Johnny: 00:51:18

everything you've shared with us today.

Johnny: 00:51:20

Sophie Wadsworth, thank you so much for coming and being

Johnny: 00:51:22

a guest on Speaking Influence.

Sophie Wadsworth: 00:51:23

you, Johnny.

Johnny: 00:51:24

you for tuning in.

Johnny: 00:51:25

I hope you've enjoyed the show.

Johnny: 00:51:26

If you've got something valuable from listening in today, then I hope you'll

Johnny: 00:51:29

consider sharing the show out with your friends and networks so that they

Johnny: 00:51:32

can get the same valuable lessons and learning experiences for themselves.

Johnny: 00:51:38

If you haven't already checked out recent shows with amazing

Johnny: 00:51:40

guests like Chris Ducker, Mr.

Johnny: 00:51:42

Youpreneur, please do go back and listen to them.

Johnny: 00:51:44

Some amazing interviews and some real gold in terms of information

Johnny: 00:51:48

and stuff that you can utilize in your own influence and persuasion..

Johnny: 00:51:52

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Johnny: 00:52:21

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Johnny: 00:52:25

Have an amazing rest of your day.