Funny Business: Mastering Comedy and Public Speaking with Judy Carter

John: 00:00:00

Can you learn to be funny?

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How important is it to be funny as a

professional speaker and communicator?

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I'm super excited to introduce

you to my guest for this episode.

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I was planning to save this for my 200th

episode, which is coming up very soon,

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but then I decided, as it was my birthday

this week, I wanted to give you a present.

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I've wanted to interview Judy Carter

for a long time, and this year the

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Stars aligned to make it happen.

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Judy is the author of several amazing

books, one of them being the New Comedy

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Bible, and also it's a Message of You,

which I think is an essential book.

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Both essential books really for

professional speakers, and certainly

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anyone who wants to punch up their

communication skills with humor.

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The new Comedy Bible was the book that

helped me to realize that maybe I could

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do standup comedy after all, and certainly

I can be funny when I know how to do it.

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Now, I've spared you some of our

conversation where we chatted about

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things like Spain and Trump and

tapas and workshops, but if you

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want to hear the full version, let

me know and I'll make it available.

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Even humor impaired people can be funny

when they know how to make a joke work.

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And by the end of this episode,

you will learn at least one simple

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technique that you can start to

use right away to be funnier.

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And you'll get Judy's wonderful

take on doing scary things.

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You'll discover why Judy is one of

the top comedy coaches in the world.

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And I'll let you know where you can

send your thank yous and your gift

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baskets for introducing you to Judy.

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Welcome to Present Influence the show

for speakers, coaches, and communication

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professionals who want to increase

their impact and present with influence.

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I'm John Ball, your Guide

to Developing Mastery Level

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Communication and Presentation Skills.

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My goal is to help you maximize your

inspiration, impact, and influence.

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Subscribe to the show for weekly episodes

and interviews with influence experts.

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a five star review on your preferred app.

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Also connect with me on LinkedIn to get

the weekly Present Influence newsletter.

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Welcome to the show.

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I am so happy today to be joined by

a legend in the public speaking world

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and in the comedy circuit as well.

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Judy Carter, welcome to the show.

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I've been wanting to

have you on for so long.

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Judy Carter: Thank you.

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I hate being called a legend.

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That just means old, doesn't it?

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A legend.

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Diana Ross, look, she's still alive.

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John: It's more a case of you, you

rightfully have a lot of respect in

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the public speaking world and the

community because you've helped a lot

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of people to do better with their public

speaking and to get funnier as well.

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And that could be a good place to

start because, I originally found

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you through your comedy Bible book,

which I think there's so few books

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that can actually teach people comedy.

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I think it was even people who say

it's not possible, but you do it.

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And you do it really well.

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Judy Carter: the comedy Bible

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John: so what was the

genesis of that book for you?

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And

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Judy Carter: It was my Taylor Swift

book because the comedy Bible was

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published by Simon Schuster and it

really revolutionized the way that comedy

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was taught because the whole thing is

you can't teach anybody to be funny.

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And I really believe that's true.

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You can't, I think you can teach people

to be funnier . And I also think you can

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teach people who are talented to stop

doing things that are cutting off their

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career options and to encourage them to

go deeper, be more authentic, go farther.

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And that book, the comedy Bible

is published by, major publisher

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and it just did really well.

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However when I went to go,

Hey, it needs a rewrite.

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Bill Cosby is not an icon who we should.

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emulate, Lois C.K.,

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it's old, it's dated and I want to write

a new one and they didn't want me to.

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So I went I'm going to, for the

first time, I have seven books that

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have been published by Random House,

Dell Publishing, Simon Schuster, St.

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Martin's Press.

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And I just said, you know what, I'm

going to go in and publish the book

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myself and take a risk and do And I,

went, you got to do a complete rewrite.

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I did because comedy changes, comedy

changes so much and how we do it and

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what we do and the approach to it.

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So I re engineered the entire book.

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And then I self published it.

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Wow.

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What I found to be true was that I

have sold my book, the new comedy Bible

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to It's translated into Portuguese.

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It was bought by Russia just last week.

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I sold to Ukraine, Taiwan, Mongolia.

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It's been published in so many

different languages and I realized.

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That I had a global audience for this

book and everybody underestimates like

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when I first wrote my first book on comedy

was called stand up coming the book.

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I was rejected from 59 agents

because everybody said nobody

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wants to learn how to become funny.

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You can't you know, how do you can't

teach comedy and when I finally

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got a publisher for agent number

60 who gave me a green light random

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house to give me a green light.

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That was the first question

Oprah Winfrey asked me, can you

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really teach people to be funny?

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And the answer is, I've taught people

how to be funny for five minutes on

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stage and kill, but to really sustain a

comedy career, you have to have talent.

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You have to be that person who

makes people laugh in life.

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You can't teach people.

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Like how to think differently, because

we comics are always, counterintuitive

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and looking for that thing, that slant.

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But people who do think that way,

if you're one of us, I call them,

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I call everybody else civilians.

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You can learn how to be more succinct

in your writing and save yourself

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five years of experimentation

by, still experimenting.

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I'm one for formulas.

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My father was an engineer and I got that

nerdiness and my mother was a dancer.

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So I got creativity.

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I can't dance and I can't engineer,

but I know how to engineer a joke.

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John: I must say, I'm one of those

people that I've always been able

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to make people laugh in my social

groups, but that's not the same as

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necessarily making people laugh from

the stage as a stand up or as a speaker.

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And so there is a different skill to it.

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I think when I started working through

the comedy Bible was the first time

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I actually thought that I had comic

potential, the stuff that I would

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actually be happy to take on a stage.

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So I definitely think that the

formulas are really effective.

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Judy Carter: So you find

yourself humor impaired.

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John: No, not so much.

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I think it was really just a case of

with the formulas and with regular

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flexing of the comedy muscles and

regular writing, which you encourage

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people to do and get the comedy buddies.

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I felt, I found myself developing.

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A lot quicker than I expected,

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Judy Carter: Oh, good, because I

think the starting place is the truth

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about yourself that most people hide.

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And if everybody listening to this could

think about what is it about themselves.

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It's like you said, I said,

Oh, you're humor impaired.

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That's a fun, people would laugh

when you go I'm humor impaired.

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And then you think of, like, all

the situations where you're just

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not funny, that becomes funny.

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So part of humor is really

here's a good example.

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And I do this when I do corporate

speaking, I go, okay, everybody,

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civilians go, hello, how are you?

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What does everybody say?

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Fine.

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Good.

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So we all lie.

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Nobody who's good in

this world we live in.

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Who is good?

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It's such a lie, right?

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So when you insert there something

that's the truth about you, but is just

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negative, you're just really negative, and

you add, woohoo, like you celebrate it.

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So you celebrate your defects and,

woohoo, I'm getting old, woohoo, and

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then that becomes what I call a premise.

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Oh, it's awesome getting older, isn't it?

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There's so many advantages to it.

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Now you have a premise that you can

roll on and, create a lot of stuff.

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I was just writing material about

that, about getting older and about age

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and how awesome it is because people

assume things about you and you could

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just, mess with them because of it.

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And so that's really fun.

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That's how it all starts.

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I think it really starts in the

willingness to, say something

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negative about yourself.

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John: I guess a lot of people

aren't always willing to be

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that vulnerable, especially on a

platform in front of other people.

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So that is quite a big step in it.

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Judy Carter: Like speakers.

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John: yeah.

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Is that maybe where a lot

of the fear lies for people?

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Do you think in terms of like stage fight

or release or emotionally connecting with

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Judy Carter: I do.

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I do.

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It's I think this notion

that you have to be perfect.

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Now, if everybody here is listening

to this thinks about like, when you

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went to high school, and the most

perfect guy and the most perfect girl.

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We all hated them, right?

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We really like people who are

willing to admit their imperfections.

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And there's something really

wonderful and likable about that,

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because, oh, you're just like me.

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And that's how you're trying to connect.

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So speakers have a additional problem.

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If you go up on stage

and going, I'm an expert.

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I'm so good at all this and I'm going

to show you the way and what I believe

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about speakers is we all speak about

what we need to learn I speak on

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stress reduction and I'm like Jewish.

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I am so stressed all the time and I'm

getting on stage and I'm giving advice

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on how to use humor to deal with stress.

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And what I'm essentially doing

is talking to myself because

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then I have to go on stage and

admit how stressed I am about it.

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everything in my life.

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And here are some tips that have

helped me and they can help you.

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And that makes it so much better

than if you're a speaker and

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you go on, conflict resolution.

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I never have had it, but

I'm going to teach you.

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And it's like it's so inauthentic.

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And that's why I think speakers

really have to embrace the truth.

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That they don't know shit about

what they're talking about.

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They've made up this speech as

their winning formula in life.

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And yeah, why don't you just call it

the possibility of what we could all be.

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You'll get a lot more likeability by

starting off with your vulnerabilities.

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John: You talk about that quite

a lot in the message of you, like

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you start off with, go through your

life story, find your mess, and

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then find your magic from there.

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It's all there in your story.

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That's where you're going to

draw out your real expertise.

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Judy Carter: Yeah, it's in the book,

The Message of You, which I think,

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Okay, I wrote the comedy bible, but

before that I wrote The Message of You.

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And I, It's even after I wrote it

and I looked at the title the message

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of you and then the word message

And then I went wait a second.

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I wrote this whole book.

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I've been staring at the title.

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I've been staring at the cover I've

been signing autographs, you know

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autographing the book and I went oh my

god It's right there in the word message.

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You can't spell it without

the first four letters.

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You can't spell message Without a mess and

you can't see it without some age, like

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they say, comedy is tragedy plus time.

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So I had this eureka moment that I

based my TEDx talk on it about you

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can't spell message without a mess.

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And there it was.

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And I think

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for speakers to go, what is the bridge

between you and the audience, your mess?

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And the mess that the audience is in.

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And if you start your speech talking

about the mess, the problem that you face,

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maybe you have some stories about it.

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What you know about the audience,

maybe you have some humor about it.

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Then you can go into like, couple

tips to help you with that mess.

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And I, that's the essential of a

corporate keynote or, I've done

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hundreds and hundreds of them.

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And I always, talk to people who are going

to be in the audience, and I asked them

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one question, what happens on a bad day,

and then I use it, and boy does it kill.

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I was speaking about the communication

problem, and the managers were

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going, wow, we have a problem.

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Worldwide shortage of copper.

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Wow, it's really a problem.

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Then I said, okay, can

I talk to some admins?

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Can I talk to some people

in customer service?

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Can I talk to some of your sales team?

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And what is a bad day?

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And I go, we can't find any parking.

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I go, what about the

worldwide shortage of copper?

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And they're like, huh?

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No, they're constructing.

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There's no parking.

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I have to park a mile away.

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I have to take a shower.

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I'm covered in sweat when I come to work.

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So I opened my show going,

hi, yeah, I'm Judy Carter.

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I'm talking about stress.

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And believe me, I'm not going to

take long because I know you all

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have to go out and feed the meters.

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And they lost it the entire

you're talking about 15 seconds.

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I have the audience in the palm of my

hand going, Oh, she might be an outsider.

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She doesn't work here, but she knows us.

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John: She gets it.

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Yeah.

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Judy Carter: done her homework.

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She's funny.

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And already within 15 seconds,

I'm transforming their mess into

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a success by laughing at it.

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And that's my whole point.

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So I open up.

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Not about, hi, let me talk about

me, their least interesting subject.

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Let's talk about, yeah, then I go into it.

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It's like, how many of you get to work?

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And it's who needs to join a gym?

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You're covered with sweat.

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Now, ah, you're smelling up your cubicle.

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Now, you're, it's what?

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John: I love that.

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And.

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I wonder, I work with a lot of speakers, a

lot of professional speakers and coaches,

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and I do find that many of them are scared

of using humor, and I wonder why you

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think that maybe it's just because they're

scared of bombing or they're just not

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funny, but I often find that they Mostly

are, I think I've only ever really ever

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encountered a handful of people who is no,

I don't think, I don't think that's ever

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really going to be all that funny, but

I think that there may be just sometimes

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a bit too serious, but for most people

that I've worked with, I think they, they

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could at least on some level without maybe

needing to be a standup, but what do you

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think that the people are afraid of using?

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Judy Carter: There's an old joke that

goes, was going around National Speakers

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Association that went a newbie comes up

to, one of the professionals says, Hey, do

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I really have to be funny to be a speaker?

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And the answer is no, only

if you want to get paid.

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And we live in a very

serious world right now.

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I don't have to tell you that,

there is so much going on.

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And I think people will

listen to you if you're funny.

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And I think you have to be funny

because I think to take it so

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seriously is a huge mistake.

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John: I got the pleasure of being on a

workshop with you a few weeks back about

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punching up your stories with comedy.

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And it was so helpful.

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Judy Carter: I have to tell you that,

okay, so I've been making a living from

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speaking and comedy my entire life, right?

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I bought my entire house in Venice,

California from speaking, and I used

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to teach all the time and then I went,

I'm going to stop doing this for a

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while, and I did for a while, and then

I started up with a class about finding

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extraordinary stories in an ordinary day.

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And then I got nervous, like I

was really nervous and part of the

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problem I have is that I have imposter

syndrome, which I think a lot of

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speakers have, because let's face it,

do we really know more than other,

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if you're really honest,

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John: I think we all get it.

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Yeah.

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Judy Carter: A lot off us speakers have

imposter syndrome, especially when they

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pay me a lot of money, then it's And so

I'm going to tell people that imposter

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syndrome, although painful is a very

good thing Because if you can't remember

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your last gigs and how great it was

and that standing ovation you got, if

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that evaporates very quickly and you

just look at, remember your image is

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the guy in the front row going Jesus,

that's the memories you, you hold on to,

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you're going to have imposter syndrome.

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But here's why it's a good thing because

it keeps you it keeps you being better.

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So like I have a five minute open

night, some local gig tonight,

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some not even getting paid.

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I have to pay, I think, to do it.

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Cause I thought let me do some open

mics, keep myself to scare myself.

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And scaring yourself

is a really good thing.

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So trying something new and scaring

yourself means you're gonna pay a

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little more attention to it, work

a little harder, maybe get some

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coaching on it, I do, I get coaching.

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I never stopped getting coaching.

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Just really, is this okay?

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: 00:18:05

Is this good?

309

: 00:18:06

Because it's so hard to know yourself

and then you have people you trust and

310

: 00:18:10

then you try it and this may be murky

and then you try it again and then it's

311

: 00:18:14

better and then you try it again and

then it becomes your signature piece.

312

: 00:18:18

So if you don't try anything new,

You're just going to be very mediocre

313

: 00:18:22

because you're not scaring yourself.

314

: 00:18:26

So when I taught that workshop which

was finding extraordinary stories and

315

: 00:18:30

ordinary day based on a workbook I did,

that was a companion to the message of

316

: 00:18:34

you, it's the message of you journal.

317

: 00:18:37

I was doing it for myself, but I

also had a fear of trying new things.

318

: 00:18:42

And, but now that I've done

and I go, Oh, that was fun.

319

: 00:18:46

Let's maybe do it again.

320

: 00:18:47

It's hard to figure out the

balance between coaching and being

321

: 00:18:54

creative myself, like helping

other people can be soul sucking.

322

: 00:18:59

And so I stopped.

323

: 00:19:01

coaching, but I one thing I do like

about coaching the class that you took

324

: 00:19:07

is I think it creates community and I

think that's what we all need right now.

325

: 00:19:13

And maybe you can convince

me John to do it again.

326

: 00:19:16

I was thinking about creating a community

Of comics, and then maybe if people need

327

: 00:19:25

personal attention, like we can gather as

a group and we can share some things, but

328

: 00:19:29

if people need personal comment, things

that maybe I can have some other people

329

: 00:19:35

coach or something like that, that so you

got to be careful of everybody, pretends

330

: 00:19:40

that time is, you have so much of it

and I'm very aware by age that I don't.

331

: 00:19:46

John: I say, one of the things I really

love about your books, particularly your

332

: 00:19:49

content is that you do set things up to

make things very easy for people to be

333

: 00:19:55

more accountable and to follow through on

things, which I think isn't always there.

334

: 00:20:00

So community can really do that.

335

: 00:20:03

And there's a very powerful thing.

336

: 00:20:04

I found the comedy bible

community on Facebook to be

337

: 00:20:08

very helpful over the years.

338

: 00:20:10

I found my comedy buddy there,

although sadly we lost touch.

339

: 00:20:14

Life got too busy for her and

she had to drop away from it.

340

: 00:20:17

But, I had a lot of fun whilst we

were doing those sessions together.

341

: 00:20:21

And just those connections

with other people is fantastic.

342

: 00:20:26

And the community is one thing that will

encourage you because so many of us as

343

: 00:20:31

speakers and coaches are out on our own

a lot of the time and not really always

344

: 00:20:36

connecting unless we're at events.

345

: 00:20:39

Judy Carter: the two people ask you like

they go, Oh, do you know this speaker?

346

: 00:20:43

Do you know this comic?

347

: 00:20:45

And the answer is usually no, because I'm

rarely at a gig that has other speakers.

348

: 00:20:51

John: Yeah.

349

: 00:20:53

You've coached some pretty

big names in comedy, right?

350

: 00:20:57

Judy Carter: Yeah, I have a lot of

people have started in my workshop.

351

: 00:21:01

Eliza Schlesinger Seth

Rogen, a lot of people.

352

: 00:21:06

And then there's like a lot, most, pretty

much everybody working comedy clubs,

353

: 00:21:10

making a living has bought, starred in

one of my books, pretty much where I go.

354

: 00:21:14

If people have ever done

comedy, they know who I am.

355

: 00:21:19

It's the kind of fame I really super enjoy

because I've never wanted to be famous.

356

: 00:21:25

I never I just felt that would, I'd

have to always wear makeup when I go

357

: 00:21:30

outside, I'd have to always look good.

358

: 00:21:32

I'd be a target for criticism.

359

: 00:21:35

Oh, she's not that funny.

360

: 00:21:36

People are ferocious to

anybody who's famous.

361

: 00:21:40

So I never wanted to be famous.

362

: 00:21:43

So I have developed, and this is what

my new book is going to be about.

363

: 00:21:48

I finished the first draft of it.

364

: 00:21:50

Also has a very specific formula and

it's called Making Money Being Funny.

365

: 00:21:55

And I'm not sure what the subtitle is

because it's really great for speakers,

366

: 00:21:59

anybody who's creative on how to make

a living doing what you love doing.

367

: 00:22:04

And it's a very specific

approach, but the approaches.

368

: 00:22:08

to get famous within a niche

and get a very specific niche.

369

: 00:22:12

So my book on Amazon that I self published

the new comedy Bible, hold it up.

370

: 00:22:19

Cause I don't have a publisher behind me.

371

: 00:22:21

This is my book.

372

: 00:22:23

John: No, it's fine.

373

: 00:22:25

Judy Carter: no, this isn't it.

374

: 00:22:26

This is the Portuguese version.

375

: 00:22:28

Sorry.

376

: 00:22:29

I was going, why

377

: 00:22:29

John: I was going to

say, it didn't look like

378

: 00:22:31

Judy Carter: why can't I understand

why does Riverside, this program

379

: 00:22:34

we're in, reverse the letters and

make it, this is the Portuguese

380

: 00:22:38

John: It's only reversed for you.

381

: 00:22:41

Judy Carter: No

382

: 00:22:42

John: I don't know why it does that.

383

: 00:22:43

Judy Carter: the new comedy

Bible is something that is

384

: 00:22:47

for a very specific niche.

385

: 00:22:50

It's only for that niche.

386

: 00:22:52

Do I know that audience?

387

: 00:22:53

Yes, I've lived it.

388

: 00:22:55

Do I know speakers?

389

: 00:22:56

Yes, I've lived it.

390

: 00:22:58

So when a publisher publishes your

book, everybody gets so excited.

391

: 00:23:03

Oh, they want my book and

they're giving me an advance.

392

: 00:23:06

And let me tell you something

from self directing.

393

: 00:23:10

My book

394

: 00:23:13

I've made maybe 30 40 times the money that

Simon and Schuster was willing to pay me

395

: 00:23:19

I personally sold it through countries.

396

: 00:23:22

I personally have for three years.

397

: 00:23:24

The book has been out.

398

: 00:23:25

It's been trending on the top three

Best sellers in its category on Amazon

399

: 00:23:32

and I just went, okay, this is the

way that anybody can really have a

400

: 00:23:40

living and get paid is that you get

to be a big fish in a small pond,

401

: 00:23:45

trying to be a big fish in a big pond.

402

: 00:23:48

It's very unlikely you're

going to be a Kevin Hart.

403

: 00:23:51

You're going to be a Jerry

Seinfeld, you're going to get

404

: 00:23:53

that deal that Joe Rogan got.

405

: 00:23:55

It's very unlikely.

406

: 00:23:57

It's 0.

407

: 00:23:58

2 percent of everybody.

408

: 00:24:00

But you can self orchestrate

to make yourself a good living.

409

: 00:24:04

Maybe you're not going to

be a billionaire, but like

410

: 00:24:08

I say, Some of the richest.

411

: 00:24:10

Comedians and speakers are

people you've never heard of.

412

: 00:24:16

John: Yeah, for sure.

413

: 00:24:17

I know several speakers who are very

industry specific, who people would

414

: 00:24:22

never have heard of, who are incredibly

successful, pulling in 30, 40 50, 000 a

415

: 00:24:29

gig for their speaking some even more.

416

: 00:24:31

So absolutely

417

: 00:24:32

Judy Carter: Yeah, I think

the range I don't know, in

418

: 00:24:34

euros, but in American dollars.

419

: 00:24:38

There's a lot of people at least

making 300, 000 a year which I, cause

420

: 00:24:44

I don't know, I don't need to fly

in my own jet and pollute the world.

421

: 00:24:47

I'm fine.

422

: 00:24:49

I don't need that.

423

: 00:24:49

I'm like, what?

424

: 00:24:51

This is awesome.

425

: 00:24:52

So I went, okay, so my whole life,

I've never had a real day job.

426

: 00:24:56

I've made a living from speaking.

427

: 00:24:58

I made a living from comedy.

428

: 00:24:59

How did I do it?

429

: 00:25:01

How do I do it?

430

: 00:25:02

And then I went, I think I have to, so

I did a self examination of my career.

431

: 00:25:08

I'm not a household name, but how do

I make so much money enough to really,

432

: 00:25:15

at my age now, not even have to work.

433

: 00:25:18

And I found a way to do it.

434

: 00:25:20

So I thought this will be

my last gift to my niche,

435

: 00:25:25

telling them the formula

because there is a formula.

436

: 00:25:28

John: I'll be pre ordering

that book for sure.

437

: 00:25:31

Judy Carter: And I really want

to this is my plan and maybe

438

: 00:25:33

John, you can help me with it.

439

: 00:25:35

Okay.

440

: 00:25:36

I was thinking, and especially cause

I'm thinking about getting out of the

441

: 00:25:39

U S and I'm like, what do I want to do?

442

: 00:25:42

So my book is very popular

in, in certain countries.

443

: 00:25:45

I know people use it in the UK,

so I want to figure out, and

444

: 00:25:49

maybe, you can help me with this.

445

: 00:25:50

How do I do workshops in other

countries where people know my

446

: 00:25:54

book, people like I know in France.

447

: 00:25:56

The book is huge seller.

448

: 00:25:58

I had to translate into French and

I did do a workshop in Russia, maybe

449

: 00:26:04

seven years ago through a translator.

450

: 00:26:07

And I went, okay, is this going to work?

451

: 00:26:10

Is this formula for being funny going

to translate or is an American thing?

452

: 00:26:14

And it translated beautifully because

I had interpreter the whole time.

453

: 00:26:18

It worked really well.

454

: 00:26:20

It's not a problem, and the

formula for getting laughs because.

455

: 00:26:25

My whole thing is you need to laugh

every 10 seconds and to set it up,

456

: 00:26:30

pay it off, set it up, pay it off.

457

: 00:26:32

And even though I went to their

final performance in Moscow,

458

: 00:26:36

I went, Oh, I hear the laugh.

459

: 00:26:37

So I'm doing something frigging right.

460

: 00:26:41

John: which is awesome.

461

: 00:26:41

I definitely think I don't doubt that

Toastmasters organizations around Europe

462

: 00:26:45

would love to have you and promote

you and the professional speakers

463

: 00:26:47

associations in UK and Europe as well.

464

: 00:26:50

I would be happy to help you make some

introductions if it's going to help you.

465

: 00:26:54

Judy Carter: Yeah, I just don't think that

they pay enough to like, I've done NSA.

466

: 00:27:01

And that, but Toastmasters

sometimes did, I did do Toastmasters

467

: 00:27:06

Oman, which boy, that was fun.

468

: 00:27:09

That was like great to travel

there and they were willing

469

: 00:27:13

to pay for business class.

470

: 00:27:14

So that was, cause, I don't know.

471

: 00:27:17

Just can't sit up for 14 hours in a plane.

472

: 00:27:20

But anyway,

473

: 00:27:20

John: it's a long time,

474

: 00:27:21

Judy Carter: That's what

I'd like to do in: 2026

475

: 00:27:24

So the book will probably come

out in September of this year.

476

: 00:27:28

And we'll see

477

: 00:27:29

John: I would certainly love to

get to one of your live trainings.

478

: 00:27:32

I think that would be incredibly

479

: 00:27:33

Judy Carter: Oh, it'll be so much fun.

480

: 00:27:34

I love doing it live because

I love people in front of me.

481

: 00:27:38

And just, my instincts are

really good with people.

482

: 00:27:43

I somehow sense.

483

: 00:27:48

Deeply what people's messages can be.

484

: 00:27:50

And I also can sense what their message

isn't a lot of people talk about.

485

: 00:27:53

I go, I that story is not the story.

486

: 00:27:56

Let's go deeper.

487

: 00:27:57

What happened?

488

: 00:27:58

And sometimes I'll get an image.

489

: 00:28:00

I was doing this at Toastmasters.

490

: 00:28:01

I said, what happened to you at 12?

491

: 00:28:04

And this woman went and she told

me the story of she was an African

492

: 00:28:10

American woman and she was 12 years

old and she saw something really

493

: 00:28:14

racist happened to her mother, and

it really transformed her life.

494

: 00:28:18

And she go, how did you know that?

495

: 00:28:19

But sometimes I get people in front of

me and I have this empathy or something.

496

: 00:28:25

And something comes into my head

from them, like a message from them.

497

: 00:28:30

And it scares me sometimes

that I can do that.

498

: 00:28:33

So I backed away from it because I

went, this is a little scary power,

499

: 00:28:38

but I think I could stop being

frightened of it and use it for good.

500

: 00:28:45

John: Yeah, I don't doubt that there

would be promoters who would be

501

: 00:28:48

more than happy to help promote you

around the UK and Europe as well.

502

: 00:28:52

Judy Carter: knew Kamala Harris's

message of when we fight, we win.

503

: 00:28:57

No, that is such a bad message.

504

: 00:29:00

That is not the message.

505

: 00:29:02

When we fight, we don't win so many times.

506

: 00:29:07

And why are we fighting?

507

: 00:29:09

It's not about separation and

you against, I went, no, that is.

508

: 00:29:14

That is not it, and actually

when Kamala Harris, Ms.

509

: 00:29:20

Harris was running for the presidency

here, we formed a group with my

510

: 00:29:24

followers and we did a punch up for her

to make her funnier and she actually

511

: 00:29:30

in the debate use some of our stuff

512

: 00:29:32

John: oh wow.

513

: 00:29:32

Judy Carter: her and when you're

funny and you could say something

514

: 00:29:36

And make people laugh at the same

time delivering a strong message.

515

: 00:29:40

John: Let me ask you, I'm excited

that you're publishing a new book.

516

: 00:29:43

You're a very creative person.

517

: 00:29:45

I think the last time I had reached

out to you, you were about to

518

: 00:29:50

launch a production of a play.

519

: 00:29:52

Judy Carter: Yeah, that was five years

of my life working on this play, and

520

: 00:29:56

I haven't been able to look at it yet.

521

: 00:29:58

It was timing wise, It just was, when

we creative people do a project a

522

: 00:30:06

lot of times it's passion and love.

523

: 00:30:08

And what I didn't realize when I did it

was that theater was completely dead.

524

: 00:30:16

Now I did a run in LA,

completely sold out.

525

: 00:30:19

And then I went, wow, I've sold

out a play, but I couldn't get

526

: 00:30:22

the LA times to come review it.

527

: 00:30:23

Why?

528

: 00:30:24

Cause they weren't

reviewing theater anymore.

529

: 00:30:26

Cause theaters.

530

: 00:30:27

I didn't realize it was dead.

531

: 00:30:28

And then I want to take it to New

York and I went there and I found

532

: 00:30:33

out that only like 5 percent of

off Broadway shows break even.

533

: 00:30:38

That's not even making money and

that you have to have at least 700,

534

: 00:30:43

000 to mount a production and you

will most likely lose all of it.

535

: 00:30:49

And the stats were just so God awful And

it was such a good play that I did, and

536

: 00:30:55

I have it on video, and I will probably,

when I get to it, mount online viewing of

537

: 00:31:01

it and donate the proceeds to a charity.

538

: 00:31:04

But, it dealt with LGBTQ issues,

it dealt with the disabled issues.

539

: 00:31:10

Certainly sexual trauma, sexual

abuse, but it was very funny.

540

: 00:31:15

So I was able to turn some

very serious topics into funny.

541

: 00:31:20

And it was done with magic.

542

: 00:31:22

John: I think that's how a

lot of how we heal, isn't it?

543

: 00:31:24

Judy Carter: Huh?

544

: 00:31:25

Yeah.

545

: 00:31:25

So I'm going to mount I, I think I

need an assistant or something because

546

: 00:31:31

although every assistant I've had has

been like not worked out, but I don't

547

: 00:31:36

think I'm a good boss, but I don't know

how to be a boss cause I've never had

548

: 00:31:40

a job, but boy, could I use some help?

549

: 00:31:45

I'm thinking like, yeah, and I

should do this and I'll go tour it.

550

: 00:31:48

I can't

551

: 00:31:49

John: you might get some people

reaching out to you after this.

552

: 00:31:52

You might get some people

reaching out to you after this.

553

: 00:31:54

Let me see.

554

: 00:31:55

I don't want to keep

too much of your time.

555

: 00:31:57

I know you're a very

556

: 00:31:58

Judy Carter: Oh, yeah, we got to go.

557

: 00:31:59

No, who's going to listen to

us blubbering away forever.

558

: 00:32:02

Yeah, baby.

559

: 00:32:03

John: But I would, I'd definitely be

remiss for my audience if I didn't ask

560

: 00:32:06

you if you could maybe share one framework

that might help people to start practicing

561

: 00:32:10

and building up their comedy muscles that

people could take away from this episode.

562

: 00:32:14

Judy Carter: I think I mentioned

this during our interview here,

563

: 00:32:17

which is in life practice taking a

chance by doing something different.

564

: 00:32:23

And when people say, hello, how are you?

565

: 00:32:26

Don't say fine.

566

: 00:32:27

Say Getting fatter, whoo hoo, getting

older, yay, it's like sarcastic, but

567

: 00:32:34

it's funny because it's so unexpected

and, what makes people laugh is

568

: 00:32:40

what we call in comedy, the turn.

569

: 00:32:42

And that is where you do you're

setting something up, and then

570

: 00:32:44

you go in another direction.

571

: 00:32:45

That's why we say off the wall

is funny, because a wall, a ball

572

: 00:32:49

bounces, it quickly changes direction.

573

: 00:32:52

I think, if you're scared, now, a lot

of people, I suggest this when I do

574

: 00:32:57

corporate talks, and nobody sometimes

they'll do as an audience, like I got

575

: 00:33:01

the mics not working and they'll go and

everybody laughs and it's really funny.

576

: 00:33:07

So it, it completely dissolves stress,

by just having an alternative reaction

577

: 00:33:15

to Oh no, bummer, to and so to me

that's something people can try.

578

: 00:33:20

Now you're going to find yourself,

you're going to feel, I'm going to

579

: 00:33:22

feel stupid and I'm going to feel,

ill at ease and I'm comfortable and

580

: 00:33:28

people will look at me like I'm weird.

581

: 00:33:30

So that's why people are scared to try

comedy because it goes into all those.

582

: 00:33:37

childhood feelings that we had in

grammar school of people think I'm weird.

583

: 00:33:42

Yeah.

584

: 00:33:43

That's a chance you take, I live my life

like that and I annoy a lot of people

585

: 00:33:50

and people don't, some people really

find me annoying and they don't like me.

586

: 00:33:58

Then there are the people you know

the exercise, Yes, and, and you double

587

: 00:34:02

down on what someone else does rather

than going, you're weird, and stopping

588

: 00:34:06

it, you just go, Yes, I'm also fat.

589

: 00:34:10

And then you go, Oh, I've got

a friend, because those are the

590

: 00:34:13

people who throw the ball back.

591

: 00:34:15

And when you have somebody who throws

the ball back, you've got one of you.

592

: 00:34:20

You have found somebody and screw

all the other people who are

593

: 00:34:24

living their miserable lives and in

judgment and fear, not screw them.

594

: 00:34:30

That's harsh, but I'm just

saying they not like us.

595

: 00:34:35

They not like us.

596

: 00:34:36

John: Don't be held back from them.

597

: 00:34:37

Judy Carter: What?

598

: 00:34:38

John: Don't be held back by them.

599

: 00:34:39

Yeah.

600

: 00:34:40

Judy Carter: You gotta find the

people who are like you and if you're

601

: 00:34:44

daring, find those other daring

people, and throw the ball back.

602

: 00:34:48

That's all I can say, because

that's an awesome thing.

603

: 00:34:51

I should put this in my speech.

604

: 00:34:54

I want to put this in.

605

: 00:34:54

Oh, send me a recording of this.

606

: 00:34:56

I'll have a

607

: 00:34:56

John: Absolutely.

608

: 00:34:57

Yeah, we'll

609

: 00:34:57

Judy Carter: because I do that exercise.

610

: 00:34:59

And this is how you find

material for your speech.

611

: 00:35:01

You just yak, and you go,

oh yeah, that would be good.

612

: 00:35:03

And go, ah, people are too scared.

613

: 00:35:05

But when you do, and you find that person.

614

: 00:35:07

Because me too!

615

: 00:35:09

You found a soulmate.

616

: 00:35:11

John: Absolutely.

617

: 00:35:12

And that's something really special.

618

: 00:35:14

I think if everybody likes us, we're

probably not funny for starters

619

: 00:35:18

and certainly I think we're just

being bland, not taking any risks.

620

: 00:35:23

Judy Carter: Yeah, absolutely.

621

: 00:35:25

Yeah.

622

: 00:35:26

John: I love that, Judy.

623

: 00:35:27

I don't want to keep

any more of your time.

624

: 00:35:28

You shared so much wonderful

knowledge with us today.

625

: 00:35:32

Been a dream to interview.

626

: 00:35:33

I've been wanting to

for several years now.

627

: 00:35:36

And so I'm really happy that you

628

: 00:35:38

Judy Carter: Oh, John,

it's so great meeting you.

629

: 00:35:40

I don't say yes to everybody.

630

: 00:35:42

There's something very special about you.

631

: 00:35:44

You throw the ball back.

632

: 00:35:45

Thank you so much.

633

: 00:35:46

John: I really appreciate it.

634

: 00:35:48

Judy Carter.

635

: 00:35:48

Thank you so much.

636

: 00:35:49

I wanted to offer some final

thoughts on this episode as well.

637

: 00:35:53

It was such a pleasure to interview

Judy, and I've been a big fan of hers

638

: 00:35:58

for a long time, and the reality is much

as in my conversation with Adam Hunt

639

: 00:36:04

from White Label Comedy, with the right

frameworks and templates available to

640

: 00:36:08

you, you can be funny or at least funnier.

641

: 00:36:13

Now, Judy did say that perhaps some people

are just never really going to be funny.

642

: 00:36:18

But even then you can find

ways to get a laugh and I think

643

: 00:36:23

those are essential skills.

644

: 00:36:25

It really is only half joking when

Judy says about the joke that gets

645

: 00:36:30

spread around the National Speakers

Association of, do I really need to

646

: 00:36:34

be funny to be a professional speaker?

647

: 00:36:36

Well, only if you want to get paid.

648

: 00:36:39

There is a lot of truth to it.

649

: 00:36:40

One of the things that I encounter most

commonly when working with clients who

650

: 00:36:44

want to be professional speakers in

some way, shape or form, either as their

651

: 00:36:48

business or as a part of their business,

is their resistance to being funny.

652

: 00:36:53

People who speak in corporate and business

areas will often think, it doesn't seem

653

: 00:36:56

very professional to be making jokes and

making your audience laugh, and yet I

654

: 00:37:01

promise you, people will love you for it.

655

: 00:37:03

If you do that . And certainly there

are boundaries you won't want to

656

: 00:37:06

cross when you're doing corporate

gigs, but I think Judy, as a corporate

657

: 00:37:10

speaker herself, is a great example

that people do want to laugh.

658

: 00:37:14

It releases a lot of tension, and

we are in a time when people are

659

: 00:37:18

feeling stressed out and uncertain

about so many things, that laughter

660

: 00:37:22

can really help to bring us together.

661

: 00:37:24

In fact, we don't really talk

about this in the episode, but.

662

: 00:37:26

One of the things that has been shown with

neuroscience research into humor is that

663

: 00:37:31

much like when when we are listening to a

story together, it can start to sync our

664

: 00:37:35

neurology to bring us closer together.

665

: 00:37:37

Laughter does that even more so.

666

: 00:37:40

For me, it's one of the most undeveloped

and underused elements of developing

667

: 00:37:45

trust, impact, and influence.

668

: 00:37:47

As a speaker, rapport skills

are all about liking somebody.

669

: 00:37:51

So trust generally comes

from liking somebody.

670

: 00:37:54

Laughing together generally means

there's a sense of trust and community.

671

: 00:37:59

We have a sense of being like

each other and that's certainly

672

: 00:38:02

one of Robert Cialdini's

elements of influence, is liking.

673

: 00:38:06

If we like somebody, we tend to trust them

and they have great influence over us.

674

: 00:38:11

So people who can use humor have a great

advantage in being able to become trusted.

675

: 00:38:18

There is potentially an element to which

some humor could end up being divisive

676

: 00:38:23

and you certainly don't want your humor

to be something that is going to separate

677

: 00:38:27

you too much from the groups that you're

aiming for, unless you are actually a

678

: 00:38:31

comic and that's your goal is to really

push the boundaries and test things out.

679

: 00:38:35

I wouldn't want to encourage you to

be too bland with your humor either.

680

: 00:38:39

It's important to get some laughs, but we

don't need necessarily everyone to laugh.

681

: 00:38:44

We just want maybe most people to laugh.

682

: 00:38:45

But when most people are laughing,

generally people will join ins.

683

: 00:38:49

One of the reasons why they would often

put laughter tracks on TV comedies

684

: 00:38:54

because it tells you where you're

supposed to be laughing and laughing

685

: 00:38:57

together is one of those things that.

686

: 00:38:59

It's a social cohesion exercise.

687

: 00:39:01

In fact, audio book I'm listening to at

the moment suggests that it could actually

688

: 00:39:05

stem from ancient grooming activities,

it's become an evolved version of that

689

: 00:39:11

way that we create community with each

other so, we know when we can laugh

690

: 00:39:15

together that we're with our people,

that we're with the right kind of people.

691

: 00:39:19

I.

692

: 00:39:19

Also is a big release of tension for, for

people, which is so important right now.

693

: 00:39:26

I hope that you have first of

all, enjoyed the interview, but

694

: 00:39:29

I hope that you will go and check

out The New Comedy Bible, that it

695

: 00:39:32

does come with a workbook as well.

696

: 00:39:34

Judy has a Facebook group, which

I have been a part of for a while.

697

: 00:39:38

You can potentially find yourself a

comedy buddy there to work on your humor.

698

: 00:39:43

I would, at the very least check out

the message of you, which is much more

699

: 00:39:47

about developing your professional

speaking skills and has some really

700

: 00:39:51

great coaching advice in there as

well for speaking professionals.

701

: 00:39:54

, it's been one of my secret weapons for

a while, so I'm sharing with you here.

702

: 00:39:58

Several of my biggest secret weapons

as a coach and speaker that have

703

: 00:40:02

helped me to develop and grow, and

hopefully will continue to do so.

704

: 00:40:05

If you are a coach who listens to this

show and you haven't already checked out

705

: 00:40:09

The Coaching Clinic podcast that I do

with my good friend Angie Besignano, I do

706

: 00:40:14

encourage you to go and check that out.

707

: 00:40:15

We are just about coming up

to 50 episodes with that show.

708

: 00:40:18

It's going incredibly well and, we're

doing a mixture of short episodes,

709

: 00:40:21

longer episodes, guest episodes,

so plenty to choose from there.

710

: 00:40:25

We'll look forward to

seeing you there as well.

711

: 00:40:27

Wherever you're going, wherever you're

doing, have an amazing rest of your day.

712

: 00:40:30

See you next time.