Episode 197

Turning Competitors into Collaborators: A Mindset Shift for Speakers, Coaches and Consultants

Competitors or Collaborators? A Mindset Shift for Greater Professional Success

Summary

In this episode of Present Influence, host John Ball explores the often daunting topic of competitors within the industry.

He shares his personal mindset shift from viewing peers strictly as competitors to seeing them as potential collaborators.

John recounts his experiences from podcasting, both as a host and guest, and how these experiences broadened his perspective.

He discusses the ethical considerations around intellectual property, the pitfalls of the guru culture, and the importance of establishing genuine connections over transactional interactions.

Suitable for coaches, speakers, and consultants, this episode provides valuable insights into overcoming the fear of competition, fostering collaboration, and adopting an abundance mindset for professional growth.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction: Facing Industry Fears

01:16 Welcome to Present Influence

02:16 Competitors vs. Collaborators

04:20 Ethics in the Industry

06:01 The Guru Dilemma

08:02 Shifting Mindsets: From Competitors to Collaborators

11:34 Abundance vs. Scarcity Mindset

14:27 Practical Collaboration Examples

19:56 Final Thoughts and Upcoming Episodes

Go to presentinfluence.com to get your copy of my guide to building authority through podcast guesting and for speaking enquiries or connect with me on LinkedIn

Thanks for listening and please give the show a 5* review if you enjoyed it.

Transcript
John:

As a coach, speaker, or consultant, how do you feel about other people in your

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industry, especially if the problem they

solve is very close or identical to yours.

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That's what I wanna talk about in today's

episode and how a mindset shift that I

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made a number of years ago really helped

me to expand my horizons and be less

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afraid of other people in my industry.

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Now if you have any fears about maybe

getting close or oversharing with some

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people who you may see as competitors

to your business, then we wanna get

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into discussing a little bit about my

take on some of those things there and

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where I have shifted from how I used

to think about this to where I do now.

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And I wanna share with you how that

really came about because of podcasting,

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both as a host of a show and as a guest.

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So by the end of this short episode

today, my hope for you will be that if you

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currently do have fears or you keep people

at a distance who may be competitors to

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your business that I might be able to

help you to reframe that a little bit and

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expand some of the possibilities of what

could be available to you professionally.

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So welcome to Present Influence the

show that helps coaches, speakers, and

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communication professionals develop the

skills to impact, influence, and inspire.

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My name is John Ball, keynote

coach, professional speaker, and

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your guide on this journey to your

mastery level presentation skills.

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My mission is to provide professional

communicators like you with

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everything you need to maximize your

impact and present with influence.

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Follow the show on your favorite

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If you get any value from this,

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you enjoyed this short episode today,

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You will be helping other people

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and you will earn my undying love.

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So let's get started with this episode.

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And I titled it Competitors and

Collaborators for a very specific

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reason, because that is the mindset

shift that I made from thinking about

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people in my industry as competitors or

thinking about them as collaborators.

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Let me share with you that a company

I once worked for, a personal

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development company, they were super

protective of everything like that

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IP, everything was kept locked down.

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There was security to make sure that

any of that IP that could be accessed at

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events particularly would be protected,

or that if anyone was in one of the

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live events, maybe taking notes and

drawing diagrams it was actually easier

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than you would expect to tell when

somebody was trying to get information

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more on how the events were run.

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And sometimes things like scripts or

other information would have to be

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around for the trainers to refresh

their memories on things like that.

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So the organization was

very protective of their ip.

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Now what's funny about that

is that they weren't actually

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the originators of their ip.

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It is something we've come across

quite often in the personal and

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professional development world.

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Something that's actually going on

now that you may have come across

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with Mel Robbins and her Let them

philosophy, which seems like she has

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taken not credited someone else's ip.

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And so there's been some

stuff going on around that.

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It is more common than you'd expect.

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I don't know the ins and outs

of that and I can say it does

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seem like he has done that.

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And I can also understand to some

degree the fact that she hasn't

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credited the people who she took and

that the company I worked for before

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didn't credit where they took the IP

from because as a professional or as

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a guru, it can undermine you a little

bit in your audience's eyes if you

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are not the originator of IP or if you

are teaching someone else's content.

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So I understand that desire to

feel like you are the originator of

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the content, but here's the thing.

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My take on it is this, I

don't think it's particularly

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ethical to practice like that.

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And I do think there is an element

of truth to just the perception of

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you being an originator will elevate

you in the eyes of your audience.

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Your audience maybe do expect you to be

the originator of the content that you

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are sharing and spreading with them,

rather than perhaps taking someone

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else's IP and making it your own.

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This kind of thing happens all the

time in the music world, right?

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With certain licks and things that get

taken and borrowed from other pieces

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of music that can be very similar.

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Sometimes they're similar enough that

royalties have to be paid to the person

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who originated the song, but sometimes

they're just different enough that

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isn't the case or it's just like a chord

progression that's actually commonly used.

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Very often we are building on

information that is lying around.

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We could create a talk that could be very

similar to what someone else has done

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that we won't even remember their talk.

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But if some of it have just stayed in

our brain, or we could write a song if

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we're a songwriter that's very similar

to a song we might not even have ever

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remembered hearing, but is somewhere

banging around in your unconscious,

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not too worried about all of that

when it comes to thinking about people

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as competitors or collaborators.

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But I do think that for me at least,

if you are having to pretend to be

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something you are not or pretend to have

originated something that you did not,

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there is an ethical issue there that

doesn't sit well with me and probably

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doesn't with many other people as well.

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So if being the guru is more important to

you than doing right by other people's.

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Intellectual property, then I think that

there is an issue there that needs to

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be addressed around this whole thing of

gurus, which I'm not actually a fan of

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anyway, and wouldn't aspire to be one

myself because of some of these issues

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and because generally my experience has

been that a lot of the people who have

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presented themselves as gurus, and I will

say not all, but certainly a significant

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percentage of them have, in my experience

when I've been more behind the scenes or

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connected in the industry, found out that

things are not always what they seem.

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That there's more dishonesty

and double dealings or dodgy

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dealings than we might know about.

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And I'm not making any

specific accusations here.

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I'm just saying what is

not always what you get.

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And anyone that we elevate to being some

sort of guru status or almost infallible

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kind of status, we are putting them on

a pedestal, and we're brushing under the

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rug that the pedestal is on all of their

potential flaws or problems whilst we

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focused on them being up on that pedestal.

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So I don't like that whole

guru relationship anyways.

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To me it's dangerous.

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And I've been a part of it and

I don't ever want to be again.

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So if you find yourself in that situation

where your admiration and respect for

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somebody in the industry is super,

super high and they can do no wrong.

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It's worth questioning that and

just recognizing we are all human.

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We are all flawed.

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We are all imperfect.

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We are all flawed, and that's okay.

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But as a guru or someone who's

been elevated, you are not

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allowed to show those flaws.

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You're not really allowed

to show them and own them.

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And if you do, if you start to get

really honest or maybe admit that

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you've done some somewhat unethical

things, you're probably gonna

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lose following and lose respect.

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So there does come a degree to which

you end up getting locked into a

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certain way of having to pretend

to be and live your life, that

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might go against some of your true.

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Your own true values.

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I wanna move on past that because I

don't wanna get too swayed down that

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'cause not really what I wanted this

episode to be about because the heart

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of this is understanding the difference

between competitors and collaborators.

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And I would say when I very

first started podcasting.

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I probably wouldn't bring anyone on

the show who I felt was doing something

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very similar or the same as I was doing.

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And you may have come across yourself

thinking this from time to time.

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Why would I want to connect or

be that close to somebody who

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is a direct competitor, right?

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The people that they would have as

clients are the people who I would

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want as clients and vice versa.

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So it does seem like there might

be a conflict of interest there.

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If you are doing something together,

like a podcast for example, and the

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people that they want as clients

could be your clients, you might end

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up with a fear of what they could

start taking my clients away from me.

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Or they might be better than me, or

my audience might like them more.

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All the stuff that our brains like to

start thinking about and catastrophizing

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for us that start to bring up those,

lemme say insecurities again, isn't it?

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But not just insecurities doubts and

not just doubts about ourselves, but

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doubts about our business, or that's

about are we doing the right thing?

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Here's what I'll say to this.

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If I ended up doing a podcast episode

with somebody who does exactly,

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or almost exactly the same kind of

work that I do and someone who is

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a client of mine listens to that

episode and decides they want to

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work with that guest instead, great.

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Good.

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Go and work with them because

there's something there that

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you want to work with them on.

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If one of their clients listens to

that episode and said, Hey, look,

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I like them, but I like what John's

doing even more, and I like his

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style and the way he does things and

then wants to come and work with me.

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Great.

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It's not the case that there's not enough

clients to go around in the world or that

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we're all fighting for the same clients.

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Not really, because we're all different.

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There are clients that are gonna work

really well with me who might not work

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so well with a competitor or vice versa.

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Even if what you do is exactly the

same as what someone else does,

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your personalities are different.

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You are different people.

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People may choose to work with you

because you are a man, or them because

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they're a woman or vice versa, even

things like that can make a difference.

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Or it could be that somebody likes

my accent more than someone else's,

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or somebody just thinks I'm a

nicer person or connects more with

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me or connects more with somebody

else in a particular kind of way.

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It's okay for that to happen.

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This really connects back to what

I started talking about with the

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company that I've worked for where

they were so protective of their ip.

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We end up being protective of

our business, and that's a big

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part of what this is all about.

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We try to be protective of our

business, of our clients, of

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our ability to grow and develop.

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And just to give you

another example of this.

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A lot of clients who I worked with back in

he late two thousands, early:

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a lot of people would have things like

protected PDFs and things like that, but

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very often people would find their content

being ripped off the internet and sold

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under other people's names exactly the

same content, maybe with different names,

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might even be with the same pictures, and

sometimes it is almost exactly the same

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with very little change made at all and

being sold on other sides of the internet

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or being downloaded and shared for free.

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These were and are very common things.

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It still happens undoubtedly, but

I do think it is something, oh, I

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almost reluctant to use this because

I'm not a fan of the sort of.

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Magical manifestation world

of personal development.

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But this level of scarcity, thinking

that there isn't enough to go around,

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that there's not enough business or

clients for everyone when there is just

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that you haven't come across it yet.

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So if you are not taking consistent

action towards getting new opportunities

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and clients, if you are focused more

on protecting yourself than getting

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yourself out there, then yeah, okay,

that's what you're gonna experience.

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I often relate things back to a

book that I love and if you followed

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the show, you've undoubtedly heard

me mention this before, a book

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called The Luck Factor by Dr.

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Richard Wiseman.

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And the book really explains this

whole principle of luck or bad luck

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are not magical or mysterious forces.

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They are states of mind to be more frank.

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And so if you believe yourself to be

lucky, or if you choose to believe that

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you are lucky, let's go with that one

as well because that's just as valid.

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Then you are far more likely to

act like someone who is lucky.

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You're gonna take maybe

a few more chances.

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You are going to start

random conversations.

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You are also gonna be less likely to be

protecting or overprotecting yourself.

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So I know that

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when you're more open, you're

also more likely to spot

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opportunity when it arises as well.

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Just take the chances, enter a

competition, go to an event where you

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might be able to network or meet some

people who could help you professionally

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Go and speak to that person who you

are terrified to go and speak to.

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Maybe it's a professional move or maybe

it's something you ask out on a date

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certainly when you believe yourself to

be lucky, you're likely to have a more

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open attitude that causes you to act

in alignment with that belief about

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yourself, and therefore it becomes

your reality, or at least starts

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to, if the converse is true and you

believe yourself to be unlucky, and

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good things just don't happen to you,

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you know that you need to protect

yourself from the world and from the bad

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outcomes because there might be good

stuff out there, but it's not for you.

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It doesn't come your way.

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If the bad luck follows you

around, there's a cloud dark,

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rainy storm following you

around that no one else can see

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you know you need to protect

yourself from, you're gonna close

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yourself off to opportunity.

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You are gonna notice far fewer things.

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You are less likely to start those

conversations maybe believing that

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they're not gonna lead to anything

less likely to enter competitions.

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You never win anything.

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Why?

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Take any chances.

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When you know that you are unlucky.

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So you're gonna be far less likely

to put yourself into positions

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where you could experience a win.

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And that's because you are

in a protectionist state.

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So this really is the heart of

the competitor versus collaborator

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conversation for me and over

various conversations with people

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in the industry as I was coming up.

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What came about from, essentially, I

say this is mainly from podcasting,

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but from having conversations with

people who are in the same industry

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doing similar or the same kind

of things that I do opportunities

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arose to collaborate with them.

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Sometimes there'd be invitations

to do projects together.

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Sometimes there'd be stay

connected and help know, help

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each other out, get advice.

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Sometimes it could be referring somebody

to you because you know they're not, don't

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feel like a great fit for them, but could

be a great fit for you and vice versa.

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It all expands your possibilities

and opens you up for more

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chances of success in the future.

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So I do not hold this limited scarcity

mindset that I need to protect

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myself from people who are direct

competitors to me professionally.

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Now is one thing.

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If someone is actually trying to

scalp business away from you, that's

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a very different ethical situation

that you would need, I hope that you

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would want and need to draw a boundary

around and say that's not okay.

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It's not okay that you are

actively going After my clients.

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So a coaching company that I was

working for, gosh, I'm thinking

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this must have happened about

five, six years ago, maybe more.

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But they were bringing another company

to manage their sales and their outreach.

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And this is a company that also had

their own coaches, but we weren't

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bringing them to get their coaches.

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We were bringing them

in for their sales team.

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But I think there were potentially

some options that they might have

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been looking at of maybe having some

of their coaches do something for us.

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What ended up happening was their

sales team started going after all of

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their active client lists, people who

were already working with coaches,

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and then trying to talk them away

from the coaches that they were

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with and to go and work with them.

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It crossed boundaries of

what had been agreed with the

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company in the first place.

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And of course, you can imagine it

annoyed all the coaches, myself

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included, who were working with the

company and saying, you know what?

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There's people contacting our clients

and our clients are contacting us.

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And in, I think pretty much every

case the clients were saying,

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we don't want another coach.

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And they were coming back to us and

saying, why are these people contacting

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us, trying to tell us that we should go

and work with their coaches instead of

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with the coachable with, and created some

ethical boundaries it created a problem

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in the company that had to be dealt with.

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A boundary had to be put in place.

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In fact, when the company ended up cutting

ties with that organization because

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they had crossed the boundaries of what

had been agreed and ended up trying to

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poach work away from contractors who

were already with the organization.

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Messy situations, we don't know

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we don't want to let people off

the hook for any of that stuff.

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What we really want is to be

able to connect with people who.

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Have a similar mindset who

aren't viewing us as competitors.

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I ended up having this

conversation with somebody on a

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podcast recording just recently.

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I can't remember if it was me being

the guest or me being the host, if I'm

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honest, but I just remember this coming

up in the conversation and the other

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guy being like, no, I hadn't really

thought about it in these sorts of terms

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that somebody who does very similar

thing to me, I could think of them as a

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collaborator rather than as a competitor.

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And it blew his mind and said, yeah I get

it, and I get why I would want to do that.

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And that it could be beneficial.

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That doesn't mean you become

a doormat, or that you allow

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people to start taking liberties.

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Because that would suggest that

they don't have the same mindset.

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They are acting as competitors

rather than as collaborators.

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So you do need to check in and

maybe have a bit of a route.

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What's this person's intentions?

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And you, again, where you get

to do that is by connecting with

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them and having conversations.

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But don't be too skeptical.

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Don't be too suspicious.

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We are never gonna get it right a

hundred percent of the time, but

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I will say this, be wary of people

who just seem to be transactional.

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This is a lesson I've learned over and

over again in the podcasting world.

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I don't really want to interact or

have in my network people who are only

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transactional and not relationship driven.

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Sometimes it's unavoidable.

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Sometimes people will slip through the

net, but for the most part where you

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can pick it up, if someone is purely

transactional just know that if there

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is no relationship there, then there is

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potentially no empathy or

connection there either which

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lowers the reasons to trust them.

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To have trust, you need to have some

kind of relationship and connection

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that goes beyond transactional.

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If it's only you do something for me

and I'll do something for you, and I'm

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really gonna bother with you whilst I

can get something from you, then that

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is not an ideal relationship to have

in your personal or professional life.

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So collaborate with people.

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The rising tide raises all boats.

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We want people with that kind of mindset

rather than if you get something that

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takes something away from me, that's

a very limited scarcity mindset.

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Be more abundant in your thinking and

know that there are a wealth of clients

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out there and many of them would love

to work with you, but not all of them.

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Some of them are gonna want to work

with other people and that's great

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because there's enough to go around.

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Alright, even though maybe it's

been a little less directed

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than some other episodes.

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Maybe there's been a shift for

you in how you think about other

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people as being competitors or

collaborators, and if that's the case,

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then I would love to hear from you.

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What do you take away from that?

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Do you have that collaborative mindset?

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Do you have barriers up?

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Are you trying to protect yourself

and your business and you are worried

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about letting your barriers up, that

people are gonna take advantage of you?

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If that's stuff's gonna offer

you get in touch that you can

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reach out to me on LinkedIn.

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You can reach out to me, John,

at present influence.com.

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I'd love to hear from you what's going

on for you in relation to this and.

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If you would like a little bit of help

building your influence in your following.

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Right now, I'm working on something

new right now and I'll share

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that with you probably very soon.

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But right now you can go

to present influence.com

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and you can download for free a copy of

my Simple visual Guide to being an awesome

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podcast guest and utilizing strategic

podcast guesting to get you more audience,

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more following, build your list, get

more opportunities, lead generation.

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This is all important staff

for growing a business.

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Whether you're a speaker,

a coach, a consultant, or

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something similar, hope you are.

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Go and get yourself a copy

of that and consider how

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:

podcasts could be helping you.

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Become not a guru because we don't wanna

be a guru necessarily, but more of a known

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:

expert and that's what's available to you.

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So I hope you'll do that, and I hope

you'll tune in with me next week.

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We are coming up pretty soon to 200

episodes, however, next week my birthday.

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I'm gonna bring you a

very special interview.

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I was debating on saving this for the

200th episode, but I'm gonna bring

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it out as my birthday episode, my

interview with the amazing Judy Carter.

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:

Judy teaches comedy amongst other things.

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She's also an amazing speaker.

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People in Toastmasters are gonna

know exactly who she is for the

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:

workshops that she's run over

the years, especially in the us.

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She wrote the Comedy Bible

and the New Comedy Bible, and

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she wrote the message of you.

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Still helping people to punch up their

storytelling and their speaking, and

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to be funnier, I got the pleasure of

being in a workshop with Judy recently

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:

and gave me the opportunity to ask her

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once again, having asked this some years

ago, if she would come and be on the show

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and she agreed, I was honestly delighted

to get to interview her and I think you're

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gonna enjoy that as well, especially

if you are someone who would like to be

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a little funnier in your communication

and better at telling your stories.

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Hope you'll join me for that.

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So that's next week's special treat my

birthday present to you is my interview

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with Judy Carter and we're back on

Friday with another solo episode.

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So I hope you'll join me for that as well.

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Wherever you're going, whatever you're

doing, have an amazing rest of your day.

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I will see you next time.

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Take care.

About the Podcast

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Present Influence
The podcast that helps professional communicators learn the skills that increase influence, impact and authority.

About your host

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John Ball

John Ball is a keynote coach and professional speaker on a mission to help upcoming leaders master their communication, create impact and stand out as experts in their field.
John left the high life of his flying career to do something more meaningful to him and has since worked with several leading personal and professional development organisations as a lead coach and trainer.
The heart of everything John does involves helping people shift to personal responsibility and conscious awareness of how they show up and perform in every situation, whilst equipping them with the tools to be exceptional.
John also co-hosts The Coaching Clinic Podcast with his great friend and colleague Angie Besignano.
He lives in the beautiful city of Valencia, Spain with his husband and often visits the UK and US for speaking and training engagements. When he's not speaking or podcasting, he's likely to be out swimming, kayaking or enjoying time with friends.

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