Turning Competitors into Collaborators: A Mindset Shift for Speakers, Coaches and Consultants

John: 00:00:00

As a coach, speaker, or consultant, how do you feel about other people in your

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industry, especially if the problem they

solve is very close or identical to yours.

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That's what I wanna talk about in today's

episode and how a mindset shift that I

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made a number of years ago really helped

me to expand my horizons and be less

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afraid of other people in my industry.

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Now if you have any fears about maybe

getting close or oversharing with some

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people who you may see as competitors

to your business, then we wanna get

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into discussing a little bit about my

take on some of those things there and

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where I have shifted from how I used

to think about this to where I do now.

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And I wanna share with you how that

really came about because of podcasting,

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both as a host of a show and as a guest.

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So by the end of this short episode

today, my hope for you will be that if you

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currently do have fears or you keep people

at a distance who may be competitors to

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your business that I might be able to

help you to reframe that a little bit and

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expand some of the possibilities of what

could be available to you professionally.

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So welcome to Present Influence the

show that helps coaches, speakers, and

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communication professionals develop the

skills to impact, influence, and inspire.

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My name is John Ball, keynote

coach, professional speaker, and

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your guide on this journey to your

mastery level presentation skills.

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My mission is to provide professional

communicators like you with

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everything you need to maximize your

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So let's get started with this episode.

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And I titled it Competitors and

Collaborators for a very specific

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reason, because that is the mindset

shift that I made from thinking about

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people in my industry as competitors or

thinking about them as collaborators.

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Let me share with you that a company

I once worked for, a personal

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development company, they were super

protective of everything like that

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IP, everything was kept locked down.

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There was security to make sure that

any of that IP that could be accessed at

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events particularly would be protected,

or that if anyone was in one of the

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live events, maybe taking notes and

drawing diagrams it was actually easier

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than you would expect to tell when

somebody was trying to get information

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more on how the events were run.

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And sometimes things like scripts or

other information would have to be

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around for the trainers to refresh

their memories on things like that.

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So the organization was

very protective of their ip.

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Now what's funny about that

is that they weren't actually

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the originators of their ip.

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It is something we've come across

quite often in the personal and

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professional development world.

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Something that's actually going on

now that you may have come across

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with Mel Robbins and her Let them

philosophy, which seems like she has

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taken not credited someone else's ip.

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And so there's been some

stuff going on around that.

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It is more common than you'd expect.

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I don't know the ins and outs

of that and I can say it does

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seem like he has done that.

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And I can also understand to some

degree the fact that she hasn't

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credited the people who she took and

that the company I worked for before

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didn't credit where they took the IP

from because as a professional or as

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a guru, it can undermine you a little

bit in your audience's eyes if you

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are not the originator of IP or if you

are teaching someone else's content.

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So I understand that desire to

feel like you are the originator of

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the content, but here's the thing.

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My take on it is this, I

don't think it's particularly

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ethical to practice like that.

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And I do think there is an element

of truth to just the perception of

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you being an originator will elevate

you in the eyes of your audience.

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Your audience maybe do expect you to be

the originator of the content that you

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are sharing and spreading with them,

rather than perhaps taking someone

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else's IP and making it your own.

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This kind of thing happens all the

time in the music world, right?

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With certain licks and things that get

taken and borrowed from other pieces

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of music that can be very similar.

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Sometimes they're similar enough that

royalties have to be paid to the person

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who originated the song, but sometimes

they're just different enough that

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isn't the case or it's just like a chord

progression that's actually commonly used.

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Very often we are building on

information that is lying around.

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We could create a talk that could be very

similar to what someone else has done

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that we won't even remember their talk.

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But if some of it have just stayed in

our brain, or we could write a song if

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we're a songwriter that's very similar

to a song we might not even have ever

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remembered hearing, but is somewhere

banging around in your unconscious,

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not too worried about all of that

when it comes to thinking about people

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as competitors or collaborators.

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But I do think that for me at least,

if you are having to pretend to be

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something you are not or pretend to have

originated something that you did not,

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there is an ethical issue there that

doesn't sit well with me and probably

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doesn't with many other people as well.

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So if being the guru is more important to

you than doing right by other people's.

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Intellectual property, then I think that

there is an issue there that needs to

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be addressed around this whole thing of

gurus, which I'm not actually a fan of

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anyway, and wouldn't aspire to be one

myself because of some of these issues

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and because generally my experience has

been that a lot of the people who have

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presented themselves as gurus, and I will

say not all, but certainly a significant

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percentage of them have, in my experience

when I've been more behind the scenes or

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connected in the industry, found out that

things are not always what they seem.

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That there's more dishonesty

and double dealings or dodgy

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dealings than we might know about.

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And I'm not making any

specific accusations here.

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I'm just saying what is

not always what you get.

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And anyone that we elevate to being some

sort of guru status or almost infallible

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kind of status, we are putting them on

a pedestal, and we're brushing under the

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rug that the pedestal is on all of their

potential flaws or problems whilst we

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focused on them being up on that pedestal.

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So I don't like that whole

guru relationship anyways.

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To me it's dangerous.

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And I've been a part of it and

I don't ever want to be again.

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So if you find yourself in that situation

where your admiration and respect for

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somebody in the industry is super,

super high and they can do no wrong.

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It's worth questioning that and

just recognizing we are all human.

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We are all flawed.

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We are all imperfect.

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We are all flawed, and that's okay.

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But as a guru or someone who's

been elevated, you are not

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allowed to show those flaws.

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You're not really allowed

to show them and own them.

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And if you do, if you start to get

really honest or maybe admit that

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you've done some somewhat unethical

things, you're probably gonna

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lose following and lose respect.

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So there does come a degree to which

you end up getting locked into a

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certain way of having to pretend

to be and live your life, that

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might go against some of your true.

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Your own true values.

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I wanna move on past that because I

don't wanna get too swayed down that

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'cause not really what I wanted this

episode to be about because the heart

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of this is understanding the difference

between competitors and collaborators.

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And I would say when I very

first started podcasting.

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I probably wouldn't bring anyone on

the show who I felt was doing something

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very similar or the same as I was doing.

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And you may have come across yourself

thinking this from time to time.

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Why would I want to connect or

be that close to somebody who

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is a direct competitor, right?

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The people that they would have as

clients are the people who I would

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want as clients and vice versa.

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So it does seem like there might

be a conflict of interest there.

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If you are doing something together,

like a podcast for example, and the

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people that they want as clients

could be your clients, you might end

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up with a fear of what they could

start taking my clients away from me.

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Or they might be better than me, or

my audience might like them more.

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All the stuff that our brains like to

start thinking about and catastrophizing

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for us that start to bring up those,

lemme say insecurities again, isn't it?

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But not just insecurities doubts and

not just doubts about ourselves, but

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doubts about our business, or that's

about are we doing the right thing?

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Here's what I'll say to this.

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If I ended up doing a podcast episode

with somebody who does exactly,

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or almost exactly the same kind of

work that I do and someone who is

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a client of mine listens to that

episode and decides they want to

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work with that guest instead, great.

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Good.

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Go and work with them because

there's something there that

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you want to work with them on.

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If one of their clients listens to

that episode and said, Hey, look,

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I like them, but I like what John's

doing even more, and I like his

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style and the way he does things and

then wants to come and work with me.

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Great.

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It's not the case that there's not enough

clients to go around in the world or that

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we're all fighting for the same clients.

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Not really, because we're all different.

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There are clients that are gonna work

really well with me who might not work

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so well with a competitor or vice versa.

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Even if what you do is exactly the

same as what someone else does,

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your personalities are different.

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You are different people.

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People may choose to work with you

because you are a man, or them because

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they're a woman or vice versa, even

things like that can make a difference.

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Or it could be that somebody likes

my accent more than someone else's,

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or somebody just thinks I'm a

nicer person or connects more with

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me or connects more with somebody

else in a particular kind of way.

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It's okay for that to happen.

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This really connects back to what

I started talking about with the

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company that I've worked for where

they were so protective of their ip.

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We end up being protective of

our business, and that's a big

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part of what this is all about.

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We try to be protective of our

business, of our clients, of

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our ability to grow and develop.

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And just to give you

another example of this.

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A lot of clients who I worked with back in

he late two thousands, early: 2000

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a lot of people would have things like

protected PDFs and things like that, but

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very often people would find their content

being ripped off the internet and sold

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under other people's names exactly the

same content, maybe with different names,

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might even be with the same pictures, and

sometimes it is almost exactly the same

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with very little change made at all and

being sold on other sides of the internet

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or being downloaded and shared for free.

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These were and are very common things.

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It still happens undoubtedly, but

I do think it is something, oh, I

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almost reluctant to use this because

I'm not a fan of the sort of.

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Magical manifestation world

of personal development.

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But this level of scarcity, thinking

that there isn't enough to go around,

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that there's not enough business or

clients for everyone when there is just

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that you haven't come across it yet.

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So if you are not taking consistent

action towards getting new opportunities

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and clients, if you are focused more

on protecting yourself than getting

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yourself out there, then yeah, okay,

that's what you're gonna experience.

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I often relate things back to a

book that I love and if you followed

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the show, you've undoubtedly heard

me mention this before, a book

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called The Luck Factor by Dr.

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Richard Wiseman.

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And the book really explains this

whole principle of luck or bad luck

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are not magical or mysterious forces.

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They are states of mind to be more frank.

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And so if you believe yourself to be

lucky, or if you choose to believe that

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you are lucky, let's go with that one

as well because that's just as valid.

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Then you are far more likely to

act like someone who is lucky.

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You're gonna take maybe

a few more chances.

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You are going to start

random conversations.

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You are also gonna be less likely to be

protecting or overprotecting yourself.

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So I know that

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when you're more open, you're

also more likely to spot

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opportunity when it arises as well.

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Just take the chances, enter a

competition, go to an event where you

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might be able to network or meet some

people who could help you professionally

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Go and speak to that person who you

are terrified to go and speak to.

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Maybe it's a professional move or maybe

it's something you ask out on a date

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certainly when you believe yourself to

be lucky, you're likely to have a more

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open attitude that causes you to act

in alignment with that belief about

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yourself, and therefore it becomes

your reality, or at least starts

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to, if the converse is true and you

believe yourself to be unlucky, and

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good things just don't happen to you,

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you know that you need to protect

yourself from the world and from the bad

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outcomes because there might be good

stuff out there, but it's not for you.

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It doesn't come your way.

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If the bad luck follows you

around, there's a cloud dark,

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rainy storm following you

around that no one else can see

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you know you need to protect

yourself from, you're gonna close

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yourself off to opportunity.

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You are gonna notice far fewer things.

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You are less likely to start those

conversations maybe believing that

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they're not gonna lead to anything

less likely to enter competitions.

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You never win anything.

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Why?

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Take any chances.

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When you know that you are unlucky.

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So you're gonna be far less likely

to put yourself into positions

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where you could experience a win.

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And that's because you are

in a protectionist state.

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So this really is the heart of

the competitor versus collaborator

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conversation for me and over

various conversations with people

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in the industry as I was coming up.

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What came about from, essentially, I

say this is mainly from podcasting,

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but from having conversations with

people who are in the same industry

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doing similar or the same kind

of things that I do opportunities

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arose to collaborate with them.

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Sometimes there'd be invitations

to do projects together.

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Sometimes there'd be stay

connected and help know, help

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each other out, get advice.

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Sometimes it could be referring somebody

to you because you know they're not, don't

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feel like a great fit for them, but could

be a great fit for you and vice versa.

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It all expands your possibilities

and opens you up for more

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chances of success in the future.

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So I do not hold this limited scarcity

mindset that I need to protect

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myself from people who are direct

competitors to me professionally.

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Now is one thing.

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If someone is actually trying to

scalp business away from you, that's

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a very different ethical situation

that you would need, I hope that you

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would want and need to draw a boundary

around and say that's not okay.

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It's not okay that you are

actively going After my clients.

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So a coaching company that I was

working for, gosh, I'm thinking

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this must have happened about

five, six years ago, maybe more.

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But they were bringing another company

to manage their sales and their outreach.

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And this is a company that also had

their own coaches, but we weren't

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bringing them to get their coaches.

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We were bringing them

in for their sales team.

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But I think there were potentially

some options that they might have

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been looking at of maybe having some

of their coaches do something for us.

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What ended up happening was their

sales team started going after all of

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their active client lists, people who

were already working with coaches,

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and then trying to talk them away

from the coaches that they were

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with and to go and work with them.

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It crossed boundaries of

what had been agreed with the

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company in the first place.

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And of course, you can imagine it

annoyed all the coaches, myself

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included, who were working with the

company and saying, you know what?

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There's people contacting our clients

and our clients are contacting us.

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And in, I think pretty much every

case the clients were saying,

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we don't want another coach.

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And they were coming back to us and

saying, why are these people contacting

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us, trying to tell us that we should go

and work with their coaches instead of

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with the coachable with, and created some

ethical boundaries it created a problem

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in the company that had to be dealt with.

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A boundary had to be put in place.

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In fact, when the company ended up cutting

ties with that organization because

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they had crossed the boundaries of what

had been agreed and ended up trying to

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poach work away from contractors who

were already with the organization.

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Messy situations, we don't know

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we don't want to let people off

the hook for any of that stuff.

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What we really want is to be

able to connect with people who.

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Have a similar mindset who

aren't viewing us as competitors.

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I ended up having this

conversation with somebody on a

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podcast recording just recently.

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I can't remember if it was me being

the guest or me being the host, if I'm

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honest, but I just remember this coming

up in the conversation and the other

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guy being like, no, I hadn't really

thought about it in these sorts of terms

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that somebody who does very similar

thing to me, I could think of them as a

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collaborator rather than as a competitor.

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And it blew his mind and said, yeah I get

it, and I get why I would want to do that.

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And that it could be beneficial.

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That doesn't mean you become

a doormat, or that you allow

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people to start taking liberties.

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Because that would suggest that

they don't have the same mindset.

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They are acting as competitors

rather than as collaborators.

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So you do need to check in and

maybe have a bit of a route.

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What's this person's intentions?

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And you, again, where you get

to do that is by connecting with

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them and having conversations.

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But don't be too skeptical.

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Don't be too suspicious.

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We are never gonna get it right a

hundred percent of the time, but

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I will say this, be wary of people

who just seem to be transactional.

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This is a lesson I've learned over and

over again in the podcasting world.

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I don't really want to interact or

have in my network people who are only

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transactional and not relationship driven.

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Sometimes it's unavoidable.

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Sometimes people will slip through the

net, but for the most part where you

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can pick it up, if someone is purely

transactional just know that if there

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is no relationship there, then there is

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potentially no empathy or

connection there either which

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lowers the reasons to trust them.

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To have trust, you need to have some

kind of relationship and connection

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that goes beyond transactional.

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If it's only you do something for me

and I'll do something for you, and I'm

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really gonna bother with you whilst I

can get something from you, then that

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: 00:19:21

is not an ideal relationship to have

in your personal or professional life.

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So collaborate with people.

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The rising tide raises all boats.

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We want people with that kind of mindset

rather than if you get something that

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takes something away from me, that's

a very limited scarcity mindset.

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Be more abundant in your thinking and

know that there are a wealth of clients

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: 00:19:45

out there and many of them would love

to work with you, but not all of them.

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: 00:19:49

Some of them are gonna want to work

with other people and that's great

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: 00:19:52

because there's enough to go around.

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: 00:19:56

Alright, even though maybe it's

been a little less directed

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: 00:19:58

than some other episodes.

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: 00:20:00

Maybe there's been a shift for

you in how you think about other

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: 00:20:03

people as being competitors or

collaborators, and if that's the case,

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: 00:20:08

then I would love to hear from you.

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: 00:20:09

What do you take away from that?

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: 00:20:11

Do you have that collaborative mindset?

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: 00:20:14

Do you have barriers up?

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: 00:20:16

Are you trying to protect yourself

and your business and you are worried

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: 00:20:19

about letting your barriers up, that

people are gonna take advantage of you?

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: 00:20:23

If that's stuff's gonna offer

you get in touch that you can

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: 00:20:25

reach out to me on LinkedIn.

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: 00:20:26

You can reach out to me, John,

at present influence.com.

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: 00:20:28

I'd love to hear from you what's going

on for you in relation to this and.

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: 00:20:34

If you would like a little bit of help

building your influence in your following.

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: 00:20:38

Right now, I'm working on something

new right now and I'll share

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: 00:20:41

that with you probably very soon.

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: 00:20:42

But right now you can go

to present influence.com

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: 00:20:45

and you can download for free a copy of

my Simple visual Guide to being an awesome

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: 00:20:51

podcast guest and utilizing strategic

podcast guesting to get you more audience,

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: 00:20:57

more following, build your list, get

more opportunities, lead generation.

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: 00:21:02

This is all important staff

for growing a business.

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: 00:21:05

Whether you're a speaker,

a coach, a consultant, or

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: 00:21:07

something similar, hope you are.

356

: 00:21:09

Go and get yourself a copy

of that and consider how

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: 00:21:12

podcasts could be helping you.

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: 00:21:14

Become not a guru because we don't wanna

be a guru necessarily, but more of a known

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: 00:21:20

expert and that's what's available to you.

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: 00:21:23

So I hope you'll do that, and I hope

you'll tune in with me next week.

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: 00:21:28

We are coming up pretty soon to 200

episodes, however, next week my birthday.

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: 00:21:34

I'm gonna bring you a

very special interview.

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: 00:21:36

I was debating on saving this for the

200th episode, but I'm gonna bring

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: 00:21:39

it out as my birthday episode, my

interview with the amazing Judy Carter.

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: 00:21:44

Judy teaches comedy amongst other things.

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: 00:21:47

She's also an amazing speaker.

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: 00:21:48

People in Toastmasters are gonna

know exactly who she is for the

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: 00:21:51

workshops that she's run over

the years, especially in the us.

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: 00:21:55

She wrote the Comedy Bible

and the New Comedy Bible, and

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: 00:21:58

she wrote the message of you.

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: 00:21:59

Still helping people to punch up their

storytelling and their speaking, and

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: 00:22:02

to be funnier, I got the pleasure of

being in a workshop with Judy recently

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: 00:22:07

and gave me the opportunity to ask her

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: 00:22:10

once again, having asked this some years

ago, if she would come and be on the show

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: 00:22:13

and she agreed, I was honestly delighted

to get to interview her and I think you're

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: 00:22:18

gonna enjoy that as well, especially

if you are someone who would like to be

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: 00:22:22

a little funnier in your communication

and better at telling your stories.

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: 00:22:27

Hope you'll join me for that.

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: 00:22:28

So that's next week's special treat my

birthday present to you is my interview

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: 00:22:33

with Judy Carter and we're back on

Friday with another solo episode.

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: 00:22:38

So I hope you'll join me for that as well.

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: 00:22:41

Wherever you're going, whatever you're

doing, have an amazing rest of your day.

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: 00:22:44

I will see you next time.

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: 00:22:46

Take care.