Episode 230

Trust & First Impressions - Ex-Secret Service Agent Brad Beeler

Mastering Human Interaction: Insights from a Former US Secret Service Agent with Brad Beeler

SUMMARY

In this episode of Present Influence, host John Ball welcomes Brad Beeler, a former US Secret Service agent. Brad shares profound insights from his experiences in high-stakes environments to help decode human behaviour, build trust, and improve communication. Key topics discussed include the effectiveness and use of polygraph tests, the importance of congruent body language, effective first impressions, and the potent, often-overlooked influence tools like curiosity and respect. Brad also teases his upcoming book, 'Tell Me Everything,' which promises to delve deeper into these critical skills for anyone looking to enhance their influence and persuasion in personal and professional contexts.

Get the free PDF with the full rundown of everything Brad talked about on the show; you don't even need to submit an email: CLICK HERE

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction to Present Influence

00:09 Meet Brad Beeler: From Secret Service to Polygraph Expert

00:56 The Role and Effectiveness of Polygraph Tests

01:55 Brad's Journey and Insights into Human Behaviour

05:59 The Science of Body Language and Communication

10:58 Practical Tips for Presenters and Speakers

21:53 The Importance of First Impressions

25:56 Context and First Impressions

27:52 The Role of Lies in Social Interactions

28:53 Detecting Deception: Techniques and Tips

33:35 The Power of Social Media and Personal Information

38:40 Influence Principles in Action

43:27 Respect and Curiosity in Communication

45:35 Conclusion and Upcoming Book

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For speaking enquiries or to connect with me, you can email john@presentinfluence.com or find me on LinkedIn

You can find all our clips, episodes and more on the Present Influence YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@PresentInfluence

Thanks for listening, and please give the show a 5* review if you enjoyed it.

Transcript
John:

In this episode of Present Influence, we are pulling back the curtain

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on some of the most fascinating and often

misunderstood skills in human interaction.

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Now my guest is Brad Beeler,

and he's a former US Secret

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Service agent with years of ex.

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Experience protecting presidents,

interrogating suspects, and reading

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people in high stakes situations

from busting counterfeit rings to

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detecting deception and murder cases.

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Brad has seen the best and worst

of human behavior and has learned

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exactly how to tell the difference.

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Today he's sharing insider

strategies for building trust,

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creating powerful first impressions.

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Reading audiences in real time

and spotting when someone's

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not being straight with you.

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Whether you are speaking on a stage

or leading a team or simply wanting

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to understand people better, this

conversation will sharpen your influence

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and persuasion skills like nothing else.

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We do actually kick things off on

a bit of a sidebar, because none

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of us will probably ever do this,

but we're gonna start talking about

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polygraph tests and whether they

work and how effective they are.

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Can you really get the truth

from someone with a polygraph?

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Fascinating stuff.

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Stay tuned.

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welcome to Present Influence

the Professional Speaking show.

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My name's John Ball, keynote and

presentation coach, and your guide on this

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journey to mastery level communication

to impact, influence and inspire.

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whether you are a professional speaker

or a coach, or an expert business owner,

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this show has everything you're gonna

need to master your communication

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skills and present influence.

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Let's welcome to the show, Brad Beeler.

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Brad, great to have you here today.

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Brad Beeler: Hey, thanks

for having me as a guest.

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I appreciate it, John.

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John: I've been looking

forward to speaking with you.

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I haven't had anyone with your kind

of background on the show since the

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very earliest days of doing my podcast

back in, I think:

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So it's been long overdue and I,

I'm very much, very much looking

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forward to our conversation.

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But just to, to give us a little bit

of background on you, we're doing

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range of what you can actually tell

us about your experience and your

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background with the Secret Service.

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Brad Beeler: I appreciate that, John.

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Um, so basically small town kid from the

middle of the US and during a Clinton

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visit when I was in graduate school, I

was interning with the Secret Service

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and I wasn't, uh, I got to go down and

watch the visit of the president and I

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was more enthralled, not by the president,

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but by the Secret Service.

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So just, you know, these men and women

that were doing what they were doing.

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And, uh, it was one of those things

where I applied after being, uh, in law

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enforcement for a brief period of time,

uh, got the job, started in Chicago,

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started working counterfeit cases,

financial crimes cases, because a lot

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of people don't know that the Secret

Service has kind of a dual role mission.

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We started in 1865 and one of

the great ironies of history,

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we were signed into law.

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Actually, uh, by President Lincoln

on the day he was assassinated

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and it was to stop counterfeiting.

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Um, and it wasn't until 1901 that

our agency took over protection

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and has been doing so since.

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So did protection as well.

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Did President Bush, former President

Bush as my protective detail,

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and then got into polygraph.

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So he spent about 17 years in polygraph.

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And the way we like to do polygraph

is we would polygraph our applicants

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as far as to deem their suitability

for the job, but we would also do

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a lot of polygraph examinations for

the local police departments to give

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back to them for what they do for us.

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So hundreds of cases of child

sex, sexual assault, and

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murder, talking to those people.

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So very influence driven as far as

getting those people to move from

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point A to point B in the process and

potentially talk to you about something

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that's against their self-interest.

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You're basically selling

them jail in that.

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John: Oh, wow.

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Lots there.

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And I, I was thinking, oh, I definitely

would want to come and hang out

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with you in the US because I'm

gonna feel very safe and protected.

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And I'm thinking, yeah, but you're gonna

know if I'm not telling, uh, if I'm

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telling occupies or anything like that.

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So, um, but yes, very, very

cool, very cool background

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and very, very, uh, sensitive.

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Thank you for, for sharing

that experience with us.

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Uh, probably one of the things

that stands out particularly about

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what you're saying there was, was

the whole sort of polygraph thing.

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I know we see a lot of that in films

and, and media and uh, uh, always here.

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I don't know how true any of this

is 'cause it is just from media,

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my knowledge of this, but, um, that

polygraphs aren't allowed to be submitted

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as evidence in court cases, but does

that mean that they don't work or.

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Do they work or are there people who

are just very good at cheating them?

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Yeah.

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Great.

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Uh, what's,

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Brad Beeler: what's the, the

reality with these things?

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No, it's a, it's a great question.

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It's a tool and it's a tool that we put

in our investigative toolbox, right?

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You know, some people are like polygraphs

that don't work, or you can beat them.

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First off, the people that say you

can beat them, but, you know, if

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you go to a car mechanic, they're

gonna know what a car looks like.

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They're gonna know how an engine

runs, just like a polygraph examiner.

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If you think you're gonna

alter your physiology, I'm

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not gonna be able to see it.

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Okay.

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Good luck with that.

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Also, would an organizations, and

organizations in our intelligence

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community that place a lot of faith

in polygraph, would they use an

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instrument that is flawed, that somebody

can go online, learn how to beat?

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It would be like if our TSA would use

magnetometers that people could beat

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by applying something to their bodies.

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It's just not.

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Like that.

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So that's the first myth.

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As far as beating the polygraph, it's

not, you know, people can mess with

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the polygraph, but as far as beating

it, going from a guilty person to an

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innocent person, very, very difficult

as far as, you know, the utility of it.

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Once again, just a tool, and

I would say this, you know,

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mammograms, you know, yeah, they're

89% effective, 91% effective.

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Would you say We shouldn't do mammograms?

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So it's a tool that's diagnostic

that done at the right time, at the

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right place to the right person at

the right point in an investigation.

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It's very effective for us in

guiding that investigation and ruling

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people out and ruling people in.

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But it's not something that, I think

because of different methods of training

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that I think you should allow in

court potentially in all situations.

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So I'm not one of those big advocates.

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I know it's not perfect.

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However, it is an amazing tool.

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It has caught terrorists, it

has caught spies, and it's

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put a lot of bad people in.

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John: C certainly most, uh, well,

certainly for myself and my audience,

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were very unlikely to be on either

end of a polygraph test as are given

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it or receiving it, but certainly

fascinating to hear about that.

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Uh, and I, I appreciate it.

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But lemme say that, I mean, you, you must

have some incredible insights into human

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psychology and understanding people and

how they work, um, and being able to even,

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you know, uh, pick up on what's going

on with people without a polygraph test.

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How, how do you develop that?

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Where, where does, where

does that come from?

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What the tools or systems or things

that you use to help to read people

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and, and see what's really going on?

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Brad Beeler: Yeah, so,

so good question John.

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So some of that is obviously

the learning, learning about it.

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You know, we have an extensive six

month training academy with an extensive

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internship, but some of that is just years

of experience where you see what puts

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people at stress and what takes people

outta stress, what gives them dopamine.

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What gives them cortisol, right?

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And watching that reaction in

real time and then that being

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validated by the polygraph result.

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And over time you, you kind of come to

find out what these tendencies are for me.

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My kind of journey in detection

of deception started when

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I was 15, 16 years old.

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My best friend to this day is deaf,

and having to speak with him and

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having to communicate with him and

learning sign language and seeing how

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he reacts or if he really communicated

my message, really taught me to

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look at those microexpressions,

to really look at someone's face

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when I'm speaking with them.

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Because that's how you're

gauging is what you just said.

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Did it bring stress?

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Did it take that stress away?

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I think all too often

we lose sight of that.

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Is, is putting all of that together

in the lyrics, the words we say, the

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soundtrack, how we sound saying them,

and the dance, which is the body

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language, is that too many people

don't put all of those together.

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And I know a lot of the people

that you're talking to in, in your

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crowd are presenters and they may

have a great, somebody wrote them

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a great speech and they can, you

know, they've got great material.

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But how they present it is, is terrible,

or they may be great at what they present,

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but their, their lyrics is terrible.

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It's lining all that up that is

key to getting your message across.

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John: I, I, I hope most of the speakers

I work with, they writing their own

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material or at least very involved in

the process of creating their talks.

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And certain, if they're struggling

with that delivery side, they're

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definitely on the right podcast.

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But, uh, with, with all that said, I,

I think one of the things I studied

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for what, whatever value it has, 'cause

I, I think it's very limited, but I

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studied neurolinguistic programming.

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Paid to do several courses in that stuff.

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Still think I might have been a

bit ripped off with Yes, you were.

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Yeah.

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You worked.

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Um, but I mean, was there, is

any of that, in your opinion,

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very little useful or valid?

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Very little.

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Very

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Brad Beeler: little.

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John is that, uh, you know, that started

in the seventies through the eighties.

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It was taught, you know, I, accessing

cues, looking up, looking to the

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right when you're doing this, when

you're the left, when you're doing

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that, so much of it's nonsense.

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And sadly, it's still taught out there.

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When scientists show time and time again,

there's very little validity to it.

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I wish there was, you know, one of

the great gurus of body language,

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Joe Navarro, he will talk about how,

when it comes to body language, it's

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not great for detection of deception.

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And, and he is right.

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In fact, people that are very

good at lying are very good

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at displaying body language.

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It's indicative of being non deceptive.

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Um, so when you start looking for

those cues of, is this person lying to

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me or not, and using NLP as a result.

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Maybe you're, you're gonna be as

wrong as, as much as you are, right?

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And you're gonna have confirmation bias

when you start to see those things.

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And it's, it's really gonna affect

your assessment in the long term.

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So, yes, you were

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John: so, so, thank you.

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I'm guessing thing NLP isn't

something that gets taught

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in the Secret Service then?

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Brad Beeler: No, we don't.

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I, now, I will say when that came

out, especially like micro expressions

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and stuff with Paul Eckman.

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That type of stuff's great.

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Like there, there are certain

aspects of that that I love.

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Like, you know, if I say something to

you and I see that that furrowed brow

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instantaneous, or I see that contempt when

I bring a topic up, oh, that's, that's

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great, but that's not a micro expression.

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That's not NLP.

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That's me just looking at a macro

expression that it's flashed on your face.

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Micro expressions.

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Literally in an instant, it's almost

operating at the subconscious level.

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So for me, I try to keep a slightly

positive face when I'm talking, and I like

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to gauge that other person's face as far

as what, did I just uncover a pain point?

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Did I just see something

that was uncomfortable?

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Did I just flash across a

sense of now they get me?

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So, and, and the same thing is gonna

happen with the people listening.

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Uh, if they're doing a keynote

or a presentation, I'm gonna be

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able to look at that crowd and

I'm gonna be able to see what are

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they grooving on what I just said.

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Or am I losing them?

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Are they all looking at their phone?

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I need to change things up.

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And if you're just stuck, like I'm

presenting my material, I'm not looking

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at the crowd, I'm not picking up, then

you are, you're gonna have a problem.

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Right?

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So

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John: being able to kind of

read people and, and even read

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groups to some degree is helpful.

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And I do that probably one of the

things that I do put some validity to

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from those trainings with, uh, some of

the body language and rapport stuff,

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which I think is sort of effective.

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Absolutely matching, mirroring.

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Matching mimicry.

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A key.

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Brad Beeler: All that, John, and, and I

will say this, is that yes, I want to come

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out when I first come out on stage, right?

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I first time I want him to

see me is me coming out.

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I don't want him to see me

working on my PowerPoint, trying

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to get my clicker to work right?

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Trying to get the HDMI cable to

work all that your best friend.

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For these presenters is your IT

professional is your dedicated

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person that gets that presentation

dialed in before the group comes in.

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So all they see is the goodness.

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When you come forward and I'm gonna

show ventral displays, I'm gonna

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show basically the middle part of my

body, which, you know, if you look

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evolutionary, evolutionary is something

people guard when they are in danger.

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And I wanna come out and I don't

wanna look like a, a prey animal.

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Okay?

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I don't wanna be small.

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I want to have a ventral display.

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I wanna take up some space.

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I wanna have as much distance between

my ears and my shoulders as possible.

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I want, if you look at the best TED

Talks, they typically have over 400, uh,

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hand gestures during those 18 minutes.

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And so there's a lot to that.

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I don't, and, and they're

controlled hand movements.

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So yes, syncing up that body language,

using that body language is very

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effective in your communication.

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If I just get up there and I get behind

a podium and I just speak the words,

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you're not gonna sound like Churchill.

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Right.

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John: I, I, I do remember, uh, this

is kind of going back to, um, NLP

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skills training, but it was, this was

actually tied into presentation skills

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training, uh, and it came more from a

psychologist called Virginia Satir, who

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was a family therapist who talked about

these sort of five archetypal movements.

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Uh, and I wonder if, if you've ever,

if you've ever come across anything

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like that, or if there are particular,

if you're aware of particular body

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movements or hand gestures that are

good or not good to be doing when you're

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on the platform, that, that go a bit

further from what you're saying there.

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Yeah,

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Brad Beeler: absolutely.

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You know, I, and you see this

with politicians, I never

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point, never point, okay?

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Um, you'll see politicians, you know,

you'll see Obama, you'll see Clinton.

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You'll see them do the thumb, right?

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Yeah.

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And they'll, they'll be telling

their points, but they never point

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pointing is very, very problematic.

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It's, it's, it's universally

cross-culturally viewed as, as

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problematic, you know, that to me

is, is a definite deal breaker.

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You know, nice hand is another thing, you

know, you gotta be careful about that.

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It's just, it's too adversarial.

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It comes across as, uh,

aggressive, uh, to most people.

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So I would say that is, is something

that I would definitely avoid, um,

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when it comes to mimicry, the way

I use it in small group settings.

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I'm trying to get somebody to confess

to me or at least open up to me.

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So what I'm trying to do is look at anchor

points, and when I say anchor points,

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when we first talking, uh, it's hard

to see now, but crossed arms, crossed

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legs, these are anchor points, right?

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And what I'm looking for when a group

to see one if, if they're receiving

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me is because body language for me

is not about detection of perception,

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but detect a reception of message.

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So I'm talking to a bad guy or I'm

talking to a group and I see that initial.

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You know, they're just kind of taking

me in and then all of a sudden I get a

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point, I get a little eyebrow raise, okay?

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And then I get a release of an anchor

point, and then I get a lean forward.

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Now they're listening to me.

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Now we're on the same plane.

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So what you wanna do is make sure that

they're not mimicking your bad posture.

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And what I mean by that is if you come

out and you're presenting like this chin

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down burrowed brow, they may be mimicking

you, but that's a negative state.

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I wanna be smiling.

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I wanna have my eyebrows up.

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Every once in a while, I wanna

camp my head to show my jugular,

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to show that I'm vulnerable.

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I wanna lean forward.

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If I'm seated, I wanna almost have

my forearms between my kneecap

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and my hips, because that is a

confession or an open posture.

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So if they mimic me, that's great.

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If somebody crosses their arms, I don't

wanna do it immediately, but I may

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subtly cross my wrists and the same

way, and then in a couple minutes I may

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uncross their wrists and you'd be amazed.

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This is where, you know, NLP, I

think was trying to get is with

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mimicry, they will follow you,

especially with the lower body.

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The lower body to me is very diagnostic.

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It's so far removed from the brain.

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Um, a good colleague of mine, Dr.

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Abby Moreno, she looks at this and the

mimicry of the lower body and where their

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feet are pointed to show discomfort, they

don't wanna talk to you or, Hey, they

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got their feet pointed at my partner.

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Maybe I should let my partner talk.

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Those types of things that I think a lot

of people don't look at because they're

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so ingrained in what is my message?

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What are the words that I'm speaking?

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Really taking a chance, slowing down and

being able to take the whole picture in is

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very helpful, not just in a, in a personal

setting, but as far as the whole audience.

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You've gotta be able to find those two

or three people that you connect with and

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you know, then you also have to find those

people that you're having a hard time

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with and, and how can I really connect

with that person to get my master's?

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John: Do you feel then that it's,

it's worth people who are on stages

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regularly taking some time to work

on body language and to understand it

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more for themselves, for what they're

doing and for their audience as well?

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Brad Beeler: Yes, because the research

shows, Jon Navarro will talk about

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this as when there's an incongruence

between your message and your body

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language, people evolutionarily.

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Are going to look at the body language

and they're gonna trust the body language.

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So yeah, you need to work on that.

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Um, Vanessa Van Edwards is amazing,

but when it comes to cues and great

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book, you know that if you look at

that with the studies that she's done,

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where she looks at cortisol levels and

things like that, that's great stuff.

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Paul, Zack, great.

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In this field, when you look at some of

these PhDs, Amy Cudi, um, these are great

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people that talk about how body language

can have such an effect on your message.

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So yes, buy a book, get what

everybody is saying by Joe Devaro,

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:

it'll be the best $20 you've spent.

351

:

John: Yeah, I think that book's

been around a while because I

352

:

can, I can remember reading it

probably about 20 years ago.

353

:

So, uh, yeah.

354

:

So it's only been out for a while

and, and, and very worth, very

355

:

worthwhile reading, reading up

on, and it's, it's good advice.

356

:

Do you, would you then say we should

prob I tend to tell people they

357

:

should film themselves as part of

their practice to see the stuff.

358

:

Would you say that's probably one

of the best ways to pick up on it?

359

:

I

360

:

Brad Beeler: can't, you

hit it right on the head.

361

:

I am glad you brought that up

because, well, I'll take my students.

362

:

So I taught polygraph and

interrogation for about eight years at.

363

:

The National Center of Credibility

Assessment where all of our intel and

364

:

law enforcement polygraph examiners go.

365

:

And you would have people that would

have an amazing message, you know,

366

:

but their body language was terrible

or their message was terrible,

367

:

but their body language was good.

368

:

And I would be talking to

them and they would be like, I

369

:

don't believe you, basically.

370

:

Or they'd be a little skeptical.

371

:

No, I hit that.

372

:

I hit that outta the park.

373

:

But if you sit there and I play

the tape, turn the volume off,

374

:

and I'm like, watch yourself.

375

:

And I'm like, oh, that was too

much, or that was too little.

376

:

Or I'm like, all right,

I'm gonna turn the TV off.

377

:

Now I'm gonna play your word.

378

:

Your vocal tonality is so important

and it can be fixed right by taking

379

:

a lozenge before you present and

opening up your your nasal passages.

380

:

By doing a vocal warmup, by getting an app

on your phone that costs 99 cents where

381

:

you can train your voice to get vocal

range by altering your vocal range by in

382

:

times when we're talking about sensitive

things, John, by just lowering my volume.

383

:

When I meet someone by deep

in my tone when I'm about to

384

:

conclude by deep in my tone.

385

:

And the reason that's so important

is because we are hardwired.

386

:

When we hear a higher pitch voice, we

associate that with danger because that's

387

:

how before 9 1 1 and radios a higher

pitch voice signal threat to our tribe.

388

:

So I will deepen my tone

slightly when I first meet you.

389

:

Hey John.

390

:

My name's Brad.

391

:

I introduced myself by my

first name, not my title.

392

:

Okay.

393

:

I am not gonna say Secret service agent.

394

:

Brad, you're not gonna confess.

395

:

It's a secret service agent.

396

:

You're gonna confess to

Brad and handshakes John.

397

:

Too many people suck at handshakes.

398

:

You can't make a good first impression

if you have a cool clammy handshake,

399

:

if it's a shake versus a hole.

400

:

If it's a, so here's a couple

things you can do, John.

401

:

These are, these are so easy.

402

:

I put spray in a purse,

but on my hands, okay?

403

:

Before I, I know I'm gonna

be shaking a bunch of hands.

404

:

You will never get a wet handshake

that's gonna denote stress.

405

:

I may be stressed like crazy.

406

:

Okay, I'm gonna have a warm handshake.

407

:

So before I'm gonna meet somebody, um,

now I don't wanna do it right in front

408

:

of 'em because that says I'm nervous.

409

:

I'm just warming up my hands.

410

:

But I'm gonna, I'm gonna do

this right before I turn the

411

:

corner to shake their hands.

412

:

Or I'm gonna, if we're at a table, I'll

sit on my hands 'cause that'll warm 'em

413

:

up so that when I greet them, they're

gonna get a warm handshake for me.

414

:

They're gonna get a dry handshake for

me, and I'm gonna be slightly pronated.

415

:

So I'm gonna be at like

the one o'clock position.

416

:

People like to pronate their hands

so they're in a closed position.

417

:

So if I'm kind of un pronated,

it's a great landing area for them.

418

:

It's the lightest part of my hand.

419

:

What it's gonna show is it's

gonna show I don't have a weapon.

420

:

Okay.

421

:

That's why we like to talk

with our hands in front of us.

422

:

That's why we like to use open gestures.

423

:

I'm not a threat and you can't

impart knowledge into people.

424

:

You can't get until they trust you.

425

:

So that handshake at a 45 degree

angle where I don't hit the

426

:

bones of their finger, okay.

427

:

Where I'm not checking their pulse

and it's a hold for about one second.

428

:

It's not a shake.

429

:

Yeah.

430

:

I don't want you to have palsy when

you're, when you're talking to somebody,

431

:

that's where the United Nations talking

to a world leader type photo op.

432

:

That's when you shake hands.

433

:

The best handshakes are a brief handhold,

and then we open back up and we stay vent.

434

:

Truly aligned.

435

:

Too many times in law enforcement,

the people I teach, they close off

436

:

their body language or they, they,

they open their body language almost

437

:

to, to blade themselves because

that's what they've been taught.

438

:

That is not a friend gesture,

and that's very problematic,

439

:

uh, when my people do that.

440

:

So once again, I want, I want

you to expose your ventral.

441

:

I want you to expose your jugular.

442

:

I want you to give that eyebrow flash

when you introduce All these are easy.

443

:

Scientifically proven friend

signs that you can use in any

444

:

type of interaction to help you.

445

:

John: I know I do the

eyebrow flash thing a lot.

446

:

Brad Beeler: Mm-hmm.

447

:

Yeah.

448

:

John: But the other stuff, I'm definitely

gonna be, uh, focusing on that.

449

:

Uh, it's funny because I was gonna ask

you about sort of shaking hands and

450

:

meeting people one-on-one and like, okay,

well that, that was some great advice.

451

:

I, I, I had not heard before

and, and I'm gonna be doing that.

452

:

I'm gonna be carrying some

antiperspirant with me.

453

:

And there

454

:

Brad Beeler: you go.

455

:

John: Uh, this thing you're saying about,

uh, sitting on your hands to warm, that

456

:

definitely makes a lot of sense to me.

457

:

I think my hands generally are pretty warm

anyway, so I'm not too worried about that.

458

:

But they do get the, the old sweat going.

459

:

But it does that research that has been,

I think people feel warmer when they hold

460

:

a warm drink to a cold drink kind thing.

461

:

Well, they're gonna feel warmer when

you have a warm handshake to a cold one.

462

:

Right?

463

:

Brad Beeler: Well, and and John

also like, so I got a coffee here.

464

:

Yeah.

465

:

I'm, my hand's gonna be

warm when I hold this.

466

:

So if I offer a bad guy, I'm

talking to a coffee, he's gonna

467

:

associate with that with warmth.

468

:

I give him a cold water.

469

:

He might associate that with cold.

470

:

And also the other thing about,

it's, if I'm holding this, John,

471

:

it's sweating, it's cold, it's wet.

472

:

Then I go to shake your hand.

473

:

That's a problem you're gonna

associate cool and clammy with me.

474

:

You're gonna attribute that

to I'm nervous and I'm not.

475

:

I'm just holding something

that's cool and clammy.

476

:

So if you're gonna hold something that's

cold, take a napkin and have the napkin be

477

:

on the other side of this, because you're

gonna be mixing and mingling after your

478

:

keynote or your presentation, the last

thing you wanna do is shake their hand

479

:

and they're like, that's kind of weird.

480

:

John: Even at a subconscious

481

:

Brad Beeler: level.

482

:

John: Yeah.

483

:

Yeah.

484

:

I think I'm gonna have to little

accompanying, um, um, paper for this for

485

:

people to download so they can get all

the, all the tips and stuff written down.

486

:

But this, this is great stuff

and, and stuff that I'll,

487

:

stuff that I'll definitely do.

488

:

A lot of this seems to relate to,

particularly to first impressions.

489

:

So, um, I, I wonder if, uh, other than

some, some of the body language and

490

:

handshake stuff with first impressions,

whether there are, um, other things

491

:

that we can do to help create or maybe

even curate a good first impression.

492

:

Brad Beeler: Yeah.

493

:

So when they say first impression,

just so we're clear, we're talking

494

:

horns, halos on that person that

we affix in less than a second.

495

:

You know, we look, we visually

look at this and the whole

496

:

point of a first impression is.

497

:

Am I in danger?

498

:

Okay.

499

:

Am I in danger?

500

:

That's what people pick up.

501

:

And a couple stories with

this real quick, John.

502

:

You know, I think you used to

be a flight attendant, right?

503

:

John: I did, yeah.

504

:

Brad Beeler: Okay.

505

:

Well, and the reason I bring this up

is I was reaching on a flight, a flight

506

:

far too much, and I was on a regional

jet, hit a bunch of turbulence, and

507

:

there was a young female seated in

the aisle next to me and first time

508

:

flying I think, and scared, you know?

509

:

And I said to her, she's

like, are we gonna crash?

510

:

You know this?

511

:

I said, look at the flight attendant.

512

:

And I said, what's a

flight attendant doing?

513

:

She said, he's just sitting there smiling.

514

:

Life is good.

515

:

Now, that could have been a

complete act and maybe that's

516

:

how you train John, right?

517

:

But the impression she got from

looking at the person in your

518

:

role was, we're good to go.

519

:

Okay.

520

:

This flight attendant's done this

a hell of a lot of time before me.

521

:

So this situation is, is good.

522

:

And that's a lot of what first impressions

go by is they're looking for that

523

:

heuristic of, am I safe or am I in danger?

524

:

I'll give you another story real quick.

525

:

My partner and I are doing a search

warrant and we're clearing the house

526

:

and we come across two dogs and I

never wanna have to shoot a dog, but I

527

:

see a pit bull and I see a chihuahua.

528

:

And what do you think?

529

:

Well, who do you think got the

halo and who do you think got

530

:

the horns on that one, John?

531

:

John: Well, you would tend to

assume it would be the pit bull,

532

:

but I know chihuahua's a mean,

mean little soandso, right?

533

:

Brad Beeler: 10 And, and I made

that mistake and that's why first

534

:

impressions are terrible evolutionary.

535

:

They were great, but.

536

:

I put the, you know, the halo on

the pit bull and unfortunately as

537

:

I, my partner and I were addressed

that the chihuahua came from behind

538

:

and jumped up and grabbed my groin.

539

:

And luckily I had some tactical

pants on that were very thick and

540

:

my partner to this day still laughs

at the Chihuahua kind of being

541

:

like a trapeze artist on my groin.

542

:

Luckily there was no permanent damage,

but it was how a stern lesson where

543

:

you never judge a book by its cover.

544

:

You do that.

545

:

Yeah, absolutely.

546

:

You do that from law enforcement to

say they have a gun in their hands.

547

:

So first impressions for me

are looking at hands and faces.

548

:

So if we can show our hands, if we

can show our body, if we can show

549

:

our faces, that's first impression,

then we start getting into what

550

:

I call a second impression.

551

:

And that's where the other senses come in.

552

:

That's where that deep voice, okay.

553

:

Now they've had a chance to hear you.

554

:

Now they've had a handshake, so they've

had a chance to see, okay, I've seen

555

:

his hands, I've touched his hands.

556

:

He's not in a threatening situation.

557

:

Hopefully with the other senses,

like smell and things like that,

558

:

we're not associating that with,

um, you know, a bad smell, a bad

559

:

olfactory, you know, sensation.

560

:

And then we even get into taste.

561

:

What I'm talking to bad guys.

562

:

I love to provide them food

because if I can provide them

563

:

food, I get a couple of things.

564

:

I see where their heart rate

is, because you won't eat if

565

:

your heart rate's elevated.

566

:

So I see where their level of arousal

is, but also I get reciprocity when

567

:

we talk influence you give to get.

568

:

And in that sense, when I provide

you food, when I provide you water,

569

:

or I even offer that, I'm gonna

get a tangible benefit from that.

570

:

John: You mentioned about sort of

painting the, the horns and the halo,

571

:

and I just made me curious, uh, whether,

whether it's more helpful in that kind

572

:

of role in the secret service to have

kind of more black and white thinking

573

:

about people or whether it's actually

more helpful to have sort of, um.

574

:

Gray or full spectrum

thinking about people.

575

:

Brad Beeler: Yeah, no, that's

a great question, John.

576

:

So it depends on the context

and so much of body language

577

:

and everything is context.

578

:

Could someone be crossing their

arms because they're cold?

579

:

Could they, whatever.

580

:

But if I'm working a rope line with a

protectee, I need to have black and white.

581

:

Like is everybody else clapping?

582

:

And this person's not clapping.

583

:

Nobody else has their

hands in their pockets.

584

:

This person has their

hands in their pockets.

585

:

So there are certain things that I may be

wrong, but due to the nature of, you know.

586

:

What's at stake?

587

:

Okay, I may be wrong.

588

:

I, I may have offended this

person by doing X, Y, and Z,

589

:

but there's too much at risk.

590

:

So yes, they're, it's context dependent.

591

:

If I'm just meeting you, okay, how many

times and, and this may have been in

592

:

your life where you met somebody and

you're like, ah, I don't like that guy.

593

:

I don't like that gal.

594

:

And then three weeks later,

they're your best friend, right?

595

:

They're your bestie.

596

:

Just, it's hard to get to that sometimes.

597

:

We usually don't have that ability.

598

:

We are very, very wrong in our

first impressions many times.

599

:

And with polygraph, I made that

mistake many times where I listened

600

:

to the detective and the detective

told me, yep, this guy did it.

601

:

And that's changed how I approached

or who I did the polygraph on, or

602

:

this applicant man, this guy's the

greatest applicant we've ever had.

603

:

And then three hours later they've

admitted to some horrific previous

604

:

criminal activity because you don't

truly know what's in people's past.

605

:

So what I like to say is,

first impressions for safety.

606

:

But then keep an open mind, and if

you do that, that's gonna be a lot

607

:

more health for you in the long

run with your friendships and your

608

:

personal and professional life.

609

:

John: I like that.

610

:

I like to think that's how

I, how I operate as well.

611

:

You know, I always think of, uh, if

you ever come across that Don Mel,

612

:

Don Miguel Ruiz, his book The Four

Agreements, and he did a fifth one, which

613

:

was kind of a, uh, but stay skeptical.

614

:

It's not worth, it's honestly not worth

reading the whole book for because it is

615

:

just that, but it's that kind of thing.

616

:

It was like, yeah, yeah, pay attention,

be open, but stay a bit skeptical as well.

617

:

And I think very often,

uh, I encounter people.

618

:

I think people.

619

:

In general are not very skeptical and tend

to accept too many things on kind of face

620

:

value or first impressions or whatever's

going on for them, a hundred percent.

621

:

And

622

:

Brad Beeler: that's why we have scams,

and that's why most people that lie

623

:

to you are your friends and family.

624

:

I mean, statistically, you're gonna

get lied to three or four times today.

625

:

By people that are close to you.

626

:

Probably very small lies, you know,

self, uh, deprecating or you know, they

627

:

don't wanna hurt someone's feelings.

628

:

But lies are what is the social lubricant.

629

:

They say alcohol is the social lubricant.

630

:

Lies are the social lubricant.

631

:

You know, you've probably seen

those movies where nobody lies in

632

:

society and we couldn't function.

633

:

If we didn't have lies.

634

:

John: Right.

635

:

I, I agree.

636

:

I think we, we do need them.

637

:

They are kind of protective

buffer mechanisms.

638

:

Some of them are, are harmless,

some of them are helpful,

639

:

some of them are dangerous.

640

:

You know, it's just, there's

levels, levels of everything.

641

:

But, uh, I do think a lot of it is tied

into, for us, tied into our desire to keep

642

:

ourselves as the hero of our own story.

643

:

Brad Beeler: Yeah.

644

:

Right.

645

:

You're, you get to choose your own

story by doing that, and you get

646

:

to be, like you said, the hero, or

at least not the shameful victim.

647

:

Right.

648

:

Sometimes it's not about being the

hero, it's just how do other people

649

:

view me and can I alter that message?

650

:

And there's certain ways

that you can check for that.

651

:

I don't know if you ever wanna

get into that as far as if you

652

:

think people are lying to you.

653

:

We are very bad at this, but there

are certain things you can do to kind

654

:

of enhance your ability, I guess, to

catch people when they're not being.

655

:

Straight with you.

656

:

John: It's maybe, it's maybe not the,

the thing the speakers most need to

657

:

know about, but it's fascinating.

658

:

So, so let's, uh, let's have a little,

um, read down that rabbit hole.

659

:

Sure.

660

:

Brad Beeler: Absolutely.

661

:

I mean, what it boils down to is

if, if somebody's telling you a tall

662

:

tale, or think of it this way, um,

I don't, are you a dog owner, John?

663

:

I have been, but, uh, uh, not the moment.

664

:

Okay.

665

:

So you can have a dog on a leash.

666

:

Or you can take the dog off the leash.

667

:

So it's an open-ended question if they're

off the leash and it's a close-ended

668

:

question if they're on the leash.

669

:

So that's the metaphor

I kind of wanna use.

670

:

And we always hear about questioning.

671

:

Open-ended questions are great, they're

great, but they allow the other person

672

:

to tell the story that they want to tell.

673

:

Right.

674

:

And you've probably been in a situation,

John, where I think somebody maybe

675

:

was telling you it's all tale.

676

:

John: So twice, yeah.

677

:

Brad Beeler: I make this much money

or I, I, you know, I, they're going

678

:

on a tall tale and you don't wanna

just completely confront them.

679

:

Let's say for instance, somebody

says, Hey, in high school I

680

:

hit, I scored 40 goals at my

local club, whatever, whatever.

681

:

And you have no way to verify that.

682

:

There's no internet posting of

it, and you just listening along.

683

:

But, you know, there's no way Bob scored

40 goals for his local club, right?

684

:

So here's how you cover it up, as

Bob's saying, yeah, I scored 40 goals.

685

:

You say, wow, you scored 40.

686

:

Now we just put Bob on the leash

and Bob has to make a choice.

687

:

He has to choose his own

story, as you said earlier.

688

:

And the spotlight is now on him and

the cortisol's dumped and he is like,

689

:

oh my God, I may get caught in a lie.

690

:

And a lot of times what Bob is

gonna say, well, I can't remember

691

:

how many, but it was a lot.

692

:

'cause that's his self effacing

way to walk back on that lie.

693

:

So that's a good way.

694

:

I use that a lot in my everyday

experiences just to ask that

695

:

question like, wow, you did that

And you'd be surprised at how

696

:

many times the narrative changes.

697

:

But for me, when I ask.

698

:

Yes or no questions.

699

:

You should hear a yes or no answer,

and it should be in a timely fashion.

700

:

If it's not in a timely fashion,

meaning there's answer latency.

701

:

So you were saying yes,

no, yes, no, yes, no.

702

:

And I ask you a question, you

should be able to say yes.

703

:

No in a timely fashion.

704

:

That's a problem.

705

:

It's a red flag.

706

:

Also, if you repeat the

question, why are you doing that?

707

:

Maybe to buy to exclusive qualifiers.

708

:

Usually, normally for the most part, uh,

things like that are not, are things that

709

:

I look at confronting you when you ask a

question like, why would you ask me that?

710

:

It's a yes or no question.

711

:

If it's a a good question, they

shouldn't be confronting you about it.

712

:

Inserting truthful details into the

question, so, you know, did you take, you

713

:

know, did you take money outta my purse?

714

:

I didn't take that $50.

715

:

Well, maybe it wasn't $50.

716

:

Uh, so looking at the truthful

information they're inserting around

717

:

their packaging around the lie,

because lying is difficult, John.

718

:

And a lot of times what people

do is they try to keep themselves

719

:

from having that uncomfortable

feeling of lying by putting a lie.

720

:

It's like a, a lie sandwich.

721

:

They put truth on the front end, they

lie, and then they put truth on the

722

:

back end, a verbal nonverbal disconnect.

723

:

So, uh, did you shoot that man?

724

:

No.

725

:

That's hard to do, everybody.

726

:

You just shook your head.

727

:

Yes.

728

:

It would've been hard for

you in that moment to say no.

729

:

So when something's hard, it's

important to put a little check mark by.

730

:

It doesn't always mean okay, there's

no one thing that is indicative,

731

:

but when you see these clusters of

behavior over time, there are things

732

:

to continue to ask questions about it.

733

:

The other thing that we look at is a

change in vocal inflection, and this

734

:

goes to presenters too, because a lot

of times we will go to a higher pitch.

735

:

Almost as if we were asking a question

like, is everybody having a good day?

736

:

Would be a question.

737

:

Is everybody having a good day?

738

:

But it's something that's not a question.

739

:

I shouldn't end with that

upward inflection because

740

:

it sounds like a question.

741

:

So did you shoot that man?

742

:

No.

743

:

But you're asking it like, is Brad gonna

believe me versus, did you shoot that man?

744

:

No.

745

:

Should be answered like that.

746

:

So when you're speaking, you should be

able to provide a downward inflection.

747

:

On those types of questions as if there

was an exclamation point behind it.

748

:

Because anytime you raise that vocal

inflection up and you can almost put

749

:

a question behind it, you definitely

lose your credibility when you're

750

:

presenting or when you're trying to

say you didn't do that bad thing.

751

:

John: Yeah.

752

:

So, so things like kind of chip away

at the congruence or how someone is

753

:

showing up and up, kind of become a

context for whether you can trust them

754

:

or not as you, as you build up the clues.

755

:

Yeah.

756

:

Correct.

757

:

Brad Beeler: Um, 100%.

758

:

We put so much out into the world

now, John, in that 20, 30 years ago

759

:

when we were growing up, I'm, I'm

not dating you, but you can date me.

760

:

I'm, I'm older people, when they wrote

their diaries, what they do, they put

761

:

it in a locked book and they put it

under their bed or in their nightstand.

762

:

Right.

763

:

What does people do with everything?

764

:

Yeah.

765

:

Social media.

766

:

Put it out to the world, right?

767

:

Yeah.

768

:

Which is a blessing and it's a curse.

769

:

It's a blessing because if I'm preparing.

770

:

To present to your group.

771

:

I got all kinds of information

about the attendees and the people

772

:

that I can shape that message.

773

:

But if somebody wants to do a bad thing

to you, they can socially engineer

774

:

likes interests, uh, that they can

utilize to get past that critter brain,

775

:

that amygdala that's saying, you know,

should I trust this person or not?

776

:

Because they can come up

with shared interests.

777

:

You know, you can look at my background

and the books that I'm reading and

778

:

my challenge coins and my polygraph

and pictures with the president,

779

:

whatever, you know, vote baseball,

other things here you can say.

780

:

Man, I could use that

against Brad if I met him.

781

:

What I'll do is if we're doing a search

warrant or we're going to talk to

782

:

somebody, I'll look at their Facebook,

their Instagram, their tiktoks.

783

:

If I walk through their house, I will

take in books, movies, things that are

784

:

in their background, and I will shape my

message accordingly so I can be on their

785

:

metaphorical radio station, kind of their

Spotify, their perfect Spotify channel.

786

:

I wanna not be on their genre.

787

:

I don't wanna be on their

favorite, favorite artist.

788

:

I wanna be on their favorite

musician, metaphorically.

789

:

And as speakers, if you're

presenting to a group, you want

790

:

to be on their radio station.

791

:

So take advantage of what's out

there about the group or the

792

:

person that you're speaking to.

793

:

Obviously, don't be creepy about it, but

use that as when you're conducting your

794

:

presentation to get some pain points

that they may have or some dopamine hits.

795

:

About things that they may relate to.

796

:

And I think when we did our pre-interview,

you know, I can look at your background, I

797

:

can see Star Wars, I can see other things.

798

:

I can, you know, things that

I could bring up that I may

799

:

have a shared interest about.

800

:

And if you're talking about a shared

interest, you're not gonna have cortisol,

801

:

you're gonna have dopamine, you're gonna

have a good experience, and you're gonna

802

:

associate me with that good experience.

803

:

John: Associations are very, very

powerful tools and uh, I think most

804

:

of us are, most of us are unconscious.

805

:

That I think, I think it is a case

of, again, lack of skepticism.

806

:

Yes.

807

:

Sometimes a lack of, lack of critical

thinking that we don't think people would

808

:

be so calculating or preparative things.

809

:

Again, why people get

scammed so much, I guess.

810

:

But it is, it's fascinating and even

when you know this stuff, you're

811

:

not fully protected against it.

812

:

Right.

813

:

We're all susceptible to, to things that

can trick us psychologically or to people

814

:

and to trusting people who we maybe

shouldn't be trusting partly 'cause we

815

:

want to, we can override, I think we can

override the red flags sometimes, right.

816

:

Brad Beeler: Oh, we do, we, you know,

numb those and we want, and sometimes

817

:

it can be a monetary need, right?

818

:

Like I used to have to work a lot of the

cases and you know, originating where I'm

819

:

the prince of Nigeria and you know, they

would fax it and you'd be amazed at how

820

:

many people would fall for that because

there was a monetary need behind it.

821

:

But now whether it be social

engineering or people are trying

822

:

to do phishing or things to try

to get in and hack into a company.

823

:

There's just so much more personalized

information out there that the hackers,

824

:

the scammers, you know, I, I, I say

on a dating site, you gotta be careful

825

:

because, you know, I'll talk to a

lot of my friends that are on dating

826

:

sites and I'm like, I'll look at their

social media profile and I'm like,

827

:

they, somebody that had ill will,

could literally take your social media

828

:

profile and invent themselves into the

Prince Charming that you're looking for.

829

:

And they will, they will get by

all those systems in your brain

830

:

that should be popping up all these

red flags, you will, they will

831

:

completely take advantage of you.

832

:

John: Are there, are there signs and

things that we can or should be looking

833

:

out for more with people where that might

be, be bigger clues, bigger red flags.

834

:

And

835

:

Brad Beeler: the key that I think is

people trying to do things quickly, right?

836

:

That's usually how most scams happen,

is I need some immediacy, right?

837

:

Like, I'm in this foreign country and

I've been detained and I need money sent

838

:

this way through a green dot, which,

okay, that doesn't make sense card.

839

:

So the immediacy of it is to avoid a scam.

840

:

To avoid typically things that

are gonna work against you.

841

:

Take a step back, all right?

842

:

Like almost have like a mythical

third person behind you that's

843

:

like, why do I feel this way?

844

:

What they're saying.

845

:

Why do I feel like I

need to act right now?

846

:

A stock tip, a Bitcoin purchase, a date?

847

:

Why do I need to send this picture?

848

:

Why do I need to do these things?

849

:

And almost just take a

second, take five seconds.

850

:

And many times that's when you can stop.

851

:

The scam from happening is in that

five seconds of why do I feel this way?

852

:

You shouldn.

853

:

Right.

854

:

Why do Car Ex, why did you buy the car

from the car dealership in that moment?

855

:

Because act now, uh, this is the last one.

856

:

This is the last model.

857

:

The, the promotion ends today.

858

:

Does it really?

859

:

Okay.

860

:

Probably not.

861

:

And if you went home and you slept,

you might get a thousand dollars,

862

:

you know, better deal, or you might

find something somewhere else.

863

:

Did you need to act in that moment?

864

:

Immediacy is one of those influence

principles that can be used.

865

:

Nefariously, unfortunately.

866

:

John: Right.

867

:

And then that example rating very much

to scarcity principle, I mean, is is

868

:

do a lot of char's principles come

into the work that you, you've done?

869

:

Brad Beeler: Yeah, and I, I gotta be

careful about them, you know, scarcity,

870

:

especially because that can be misused.

871

:

You know, I don't wanna say, Hey, if

you don't talk to me, you're gonna go

872

:

to jail for the rest of your lives.

873

:

I don't wanna, obviously, offer promises.

874

:

So scarcity is one.

875

:

I stay away from reciprocity.

876

:

Absolutely.

877

:

Social proof.

878

:

Absolutely.

879

:

And that's for good.

880

:

People I'm talking to, they're innocent.

881

:

And also people that I'm talking

to that are guilty, I, I'll give

882

:

you, for instance, I'm working

a case in Texas, homicide case.

883

:

The individual is very

anti law enforcement.

884

:

I don't know if he did the bad thing

or if he didn't do the bad thing,

885

:

but he's very anti law enforcement.

886

:

So how can I change that perspective?

887

:

I have the police dispatcher who

I say, do you know this person?

888

:

He goes, absolutely not.

889

:

I said, you're gonna be in the

room when they bring him in.

890

:

And I said, we're gonna

create a little scenario here.

891

:

I said, when they bring him in.

892

:

I want you to gimme a hug and

say, Brad, thanks for letting

893

:

me get that off my chest.

894

:

I appreciate it.

895

:

And then I want you to

walk out the exit sign.

896

:

Now that interaction to the guy that

was very anti law enforcement scared.

897

:

When he sees that, what

does he think about me?

898

:

I'm fair.

899

:

I'm honest.

900

:

I'll listen to him.

901

:

I won't jump to conclusions.

902

:

That is gonna be as effective for me

if he is innocent or if it is, if he's

903

:

guilty to get him in the right head space.

904

:

Now, in that situation, it

worked out for us where.

905

:

He admitted to killing the female in

question and, and it was a positive

906

:

result, but if he didn't have

involvement in it, it would've got

907

:

him in the right head space where I

could have been able to determine that.

908

:

Um, so social proof, even saying

things like, Hey, I've done this

909

:

a thousand times when I've done it

once, is gonna make people, you're,

910

:

who do you wanna work on your knee?

911

:

John, do you wanna work the person

that I just got outta school or the

912

:

dentist that just got outta dental

school, or the person that, you know

913

:

what they got the plaque on the wall

or the, the football jerseys on the

914

:

wall of all the people that they.

915

:

Did surgeries on, right?

916

:

So the social proof is

definitely reciprocity.

917

:

Gift to get is so important.

918

:

I always give water.

919

:

I always give drinks.

920

:

I was in Japan working on protective

detail, and I gave a dollar and

921

:

50 cent through service pen to

my Japanese counterpart after

922

:

three days, just as a nice gift.

923

:

There was no ulterior motive.

924

:

He took off his father's cuff

links that his father had given

925

:

him for his graduation as from high

school, and he presented them to me.

926

:

I felt like the worst

American ever, right.

927

:

I'm like, no, no, no.

928

:

I'm so sorry.

929

:

I didn't mean that.

930

:

He's like, no, I, I, I,

this is a great gift.

931

:

I will give this to my son.

932

:

He'll be so proud.

933

:

Of course, I'm gonna give

you something back and not

934

:

three weeks later I'm working.

935

:

The president of Iran

came in, I need a job.

936

:

And their detail leader had their

official Iranian pen, and at the

937

:

end they were very respectful.

938

:

I provided my American pen to him

just, and it was a dollar 50 cent pen.

939

:

No, not my official pen.

940

:

And he took off his serial

number, Iranian pen.

941

:

Presented it to me from reciprocity.

942

:

These are people that we maybe don't

get along with, but out of respect

943

:

because I gave him something, he

gave me something back as well.

944

:

So reciprocity absolutely is huge.

945

:

Curiosity.

946

:

I know it's not one of the influence

principles and that Chelini talks about,

947

:

but it is so important when you talk

to people if they feel like they're

948

:

teaching you about something and you're

curious, honestly curious about it,

949

:

it's amazing how they go from defense.

950

:

Like, is this person

questioning me to, oh my God.

951

:

Lemme tell you about that.

952

:

I learned so much from just asking.

953

:

Oh my God.

954

:

Tell me about that.

955

:

Be curious is instead of judgmental,

it's a famous Ted lasso quote.

956

:

John: No, I, I agree.

957

:

I remember, I remember meeting a guy

actually when my first trip to the us

958

:

um, when meeting guy, he just asked

question after question after question.

959

:

Uh, but I didn't kind of

mind talking about it.

960

:

I guess we loved, we all loved

talking about ourselves, right?

961

:

I mean, I was only 16 at the time.

962

:

Absolutely.

963

:

Um, but also it, it was that curiosity.

964

:

It is like, well, we definitely felt

like, uh, you know, I still remember

965

:

the conversation, I guess because he was

so curious about me and to know more.

966

:

And there, there are quite a few, uh.

967

:

Influence and persuasion principles

that Chaldini doesn't get to in, in

968

:

his major works that, uh, that I've

come across, uh, since then as well,

969

:

which, uh, which certainly would

be interesting to see, uh, see more

970

:

studies and works into, into those two.

971

:

I'm wondering, I mean, I want to

respect your, your time here as well.

972

:

Um, are there any other things

that you, elements of influence

973

:

or persuasion that, that you are

aware of that you think might be.

974

:

Useful or helpful for speakers or

communicators to at least be aware

975

:

of or maybe even to use in their day

stay or in their presentation just

976

:

now as far as asking questions, right?

977

:

Brad Beeler: Is that when we talk about

ourself, we are gonna go to things that

978

:

give us that dopamine hit, or we're

definitely gonna avoid those things

979

:

that give us those cortisol and they

are gonna associate that with you if

980

:

they're doing most of the talking.

981

:

That's very, very good for me.

982

:

Especially in the interview stage.

983

:

I think respect is also so important

in that what happens after a big

984

:

football match in which it's a heated

football match, or in the United

985

:

States, a big hockey match, they

exchange jerseys, they shake hands.

986

:

There's respect, like I've talked to

some of the worst people on this planet,

987

:

pedophiles that have done horrific things.

988

:

People that hate the us, you know, murders

that have killed six, 7-year-old kids.

989

:

But I can't show the disdain

that I'm showing you right

990

:

now when I'm talking to them.

991

:

I have to show them the

respect as a human being.

992

:

I provided you, you know,

Maslow's hierarchy and needs.

993

:

Did I make them feel safe?

994

:

Did I make them feel like

they were in a good place?

995

:

You know, if you wanna think of the

Catholic faith, how would a Catholic

996

:

priest get somebody to open up?

997

:

He would create a private environment.

998

:

Okay.

999

:

If those confessionals were

fishbowls, nobody would want to talk.

:

00:44:19,421 --> 00:44:21,671

If that Catholic priest was judgmental.

:

00:44:22,196 --> 00:44:23,726

And said, really, you did that?

:

00:44:24,536 --> 00:44:26,036

Obviously that would

shut down conversation.

:

00:44:26,696 --> 00:44:29,036

If there was a microphone in there

that was projecting it to the outside

:

00:44:29,036 --> 00:44:30,986

world, that would be a big problem.

:

00:44:31,586 --> 00:44:33,596

So respect is very important.

:

00:44:33,750 --> 00:44:38,246

I, I think that as far as not judging

that other person, even when they tell

:

00:44:38,246 --> 00:44:44,786

you horrific things and observation

too many times we are outputting and

:

00:44:44,786 --> 00:44:47,455

we are just ships passing in the night.

:

00:44:47,455 --> 00:44:50,486

This transactional talk, what

that person did that made you

:

00:44:50,486 --> 00:44:51,596

feel so good on that flight.

:

00:44:52,166 --> 00:44:55,406

That ask you all those questions

that makes you feel great

:

00:44:55,406 --> 00:44:56,395

because you're not used to that.

:

00:44:56,456 --> 00:44:59,486

We're all used to just outputting and

not really listening to other people.

:

00:44:59,486 --> 00:45:02,306

So using those active

listenings where, you know, I'm.

:

00:45:02,756 --> 00:45:04,136

Summarizing what somebody's saying.

:

00:45:04,165 --> 00:45:06,446

Um, giving them those empathetic

statements afterwards, ah,

:

00:45:06,446 --> 00:45:07,435

that must have been so hard.

:

00:45:07,766 --> 00:45:11,006

Or those false state, or, you know,

just, you know, things in which I'm

:

00:45:11,006 --> 00:45:13,886

forcing those follow up questions

or follow up answers from them.

:

00:45:14,216 --> 00:45:17,966

I'm giving them those minimal, minimal

encouragers as they're talking and

:

00:45:17,966 --> 00:45:20,756

giving those signals of interest,

you know, with that eyebrow flash

:

00:45:20,756 --> 00:45:24,000

or whatever is that, that's letting

that person get that dopamine hit.

:

00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,991

That is gonna allow them to, once

again, to open up and tell you more

:

00:45:28,991 --> 00:45:32,891

because when somebody fell, feels

like they can tell you anything,

:

00:45:33,491 --> 00:45:34,961

they're gonna tell you everything.

:

00:45:35,606 --> 00:45:35,996

Okay.

:

00:45:35,996 --> 00:45:38,276

And that's, you know, that's, that's

ultimately where, that's, that's the name

:

00:45:38,276 --> 00:45:40,046

of my book is, is Tell Me Everything.

:

00:45:40,046 --> 00:45:42,806

So that's something that, uh, you

know, coming out next February

:

00:45:42,806 --> 00:45:44,456

if I can get a shameless plugin.

:

00:45:44,696 --> 00:45:45,326

John: Yeah, of course.

:

00:45:45,661 --> 00:45:48,181

I was, I was, I was about to

ask you about your first I do.

:

00:45:48,221 --> 00:45:50,756

I know you were, you got,

you got, you got there first.

:

00:45:50,876 --> 00:45:52,376

So it's gonna be called

Tell Me Everything.

:

00:45:52,376 --> 00:45:54,776

And in February, what, what can

we look forward to with that?

:

00:45:55,496 --> 00:45:57,416

Brad Beeler: You know, a lot, some of

the stuff that we talked about here.

:

00:45:57,416 --> 00:46:00,716

But what I try to do, John,

is literally take from start

:

00:46:00,716 --> 00:46:03,266

to finish of a conversation.

:

00:46:04,166 --> 00:46:05,006

How do we prep for it?

:

00:46:05,006 --> 00:46:06,176

How do we get that first impression?

:

00:46:06,206 --> 00:46:10,076

How do we use our senses to get the

other person in the right head space?

:

00:46:10,766 --> 00:46:11,756

How do we use influence?

:

00:46:11,816 --> 00:46:15,116

So, you know, I like to talk

about social proof, curiosity,

:

00:46:15,116 --> 00:46:16,976

observation, respect, and exchange.

:

00:46:17,636 --> 00:46:21,326

I talk then about, you know, once people

are disclosing to you, what are some

:

00:46:21,326 --> 00:46:24,416

signs that you can see if they're not

being a hundred percent and if they're

:

00:46:24,416 --> 00:46:28,061

not being a hundred percent, how can we

non confrontationally get them to open up?

:

00:46:29,051 --> 00:46:32,891

With still preserving that

relationship by getting them to, you

:

00:46:32,891 --> 00:46:34,181

know, say they did that bad thing.

:

00:46:34,361 --> 00:46:35,591

You know, hopefully

that's gonna help parents.

:

00:46:35,591 --> 00:46:37,391

Hopefully that's gonna help

business leaders when they're

:

00:46:37,391 --> 00:46:40,481

talking to their employer, you

know, employees, things like that.

:

00:46:40,481 --> 00:46:42,851

So hopefully it's, it's gonna

be something that you can use in

:

00:46:42,851 --> 00:46:44,381

sales, you can use in negotiations.

:

00:46:44,651 --> 00:46:46,991

Obviously in law enforcement,

uh, you can use it as well.

:

00:46:46,991 --> 00:46:48,431

So hopefully, uh.

:

00:46:49,016 --> 00:46:51,506

You know, hopefully it'll be something

that, that people will find interesting.

:

00:46:51,806 --> 00:46:54,716

You know, I'm sure you'll put in the

show notes, LinkedIn links and stuff, and

:

00:46:55,316 --> 00:46:56,995

anytime I can be at any, maybe we have you

:

00:46:56,995 --> 00:46:58,165

John: back when the book's out.

:

00:46:58,165 --> 00:47:00,866

Uh, I think there's definitely more,

definitely more we could talk about.

:

00:47:01,196 --> 00:47:01,796

Brad Beeler: Absolutely.

:

00:47:01,856 --> 00:47:05,125

Anything that, if people wanna

connect with me, I will gladly if I

:

00:47:05,125 --> 00:47:06,326

can't answer the question for you.

:

00:47:06,386 --> 00:47:08,756

Thankfully, I've, I've got a good

Rolodex of people that hopefully

:

00:47:08,756 --> 00:47:09,836

can answer that question for you.

:

00:47:10,646 --> 00:47:11,036

Awesome,

:

00:47:11,156 --> 00:47:11,456

John: Brad.

:

00:47:11,456 --> 00:47:12,896

I look, I look forward to the book.

:

00:47:12,896 --> 00:47:16,556

I think I, I'm definitely gonna have to

put together a little, uh, comprehensive

:

00:47:16,556 --> 00:47:18,386

free study guide for, for our listeners.

:

00:47:18,386 --> 00:47:20,576

So if you want to go and check that

out, it'll be in the YouTube notes.

:

00:47:20,636 --> 00:47:21,476

It'll be in the show notes.

:

00:47:21,596 --> 00:47:24,926

Go and get that and I'll make sure

you can, I'll get AI to create a

:

00:47:24,926 --> 00:47:26,246

nice little summary for you all.

:

00:47:26,546 --> 00:47:26,951

We love ai.

:

00:47:27,806 --> 00:47:30,056

So you have to try and remember

everything we had to because we

:

00:47:30,056 --> 00:47:33,746

covered a lot, but it was really good

gold stuff and uh, really helpful.

:

00:47:33,776 --> 00:47:34,616

Very interesting.

:

00:47:34,706 --> 00:47:36,806

Brad, thank you so much for

coming and sharing all this

:

00:47:36,806 --> 00:47:37,856

with us on percent influence.

:

00:47:38,186 --> 00:47:38,996

Thank you very much, John.

:

00:47:39,086 --> 00:47:41,696

Well, fascinating stuff

from Brad Bela there.

:

00:47:41,696 --> 00:47:45,326

I think I said, I mentioned to Brad at

the start, my last time chatting with

:

00:47:45,326 --> 00:47:49,436

anybody with Secret Service experience was

years ago, and that was fascinating too.

:

00:47:49,636 --> 00:47:53,776

This time I think I had better

questions to ask and was super

:

00:47:53,776 --> 00:47:55,666

fascinated by his answers.

:

00:47:55,696 --> 00:48:00,436

So it is like part body language decoding,

part influence in psychology and part

:

00:48:00,436 --> 00:48:02,296

streetwise, secret service savvy.

:

00:48:03,106 --> 00:48:07,006

One of the things Brad talked about

today was about how people often

:

00:48:07,006 --> 00:48:11,116

trust body language over words, had to

make sure yours matches your message,

:

00:48:11,116 --> 00:48:13,915

and this is part of that congruence.

:

00:48:13,975 --> 00:48:15,806

Congruence that we want

to make sure we have.

:

00:48:16,046 --> 00:48:17,606

It's one of the charisma killers.

:

00:48:17,606 --> 00:48:20,846

If you're not already registered for the

Charisma Killers event tomorrow, it's

:

00:48:20,846 --> 00:48:22,826

gonna be free on LinkedIn and YouTube.

:

00:48:23,125 --> 00:48:25,046

You can catch it there or

you can catch the replay.

:

00:48:25,046 --> 00:48:28,736

I'm gonna be doing this as a monthly

event, so um, if you don't make it on the

:

00:48:28,736 --> 00:48:31,136

14th, you can come back again next month.

:

00:48:31,136 --> 00:48:32,725

If you'd like to join us for the live.

:

00:48:33,761 --> 00:48:38,111

But I'm definitely fascinated by things

like handshake tweaks that make a world

:

00:48:38,111 --> 00:48:41,611

of difference to your first impressions

, I'm gonna make sure that my hands are

:

00:48:41,671 --> 00:48:46,471

dry the next time I'm introducing myself

at a networking event, but also being

:

00:48:46,471 --> 00:48:50,491

able to read your audience in the moment

and adapt your delivery instantly.

:

00:48:50,491 --> 00:48:54,931

This is critical stuff for speakers,

for standup comics, for anyone who's

:

00:48:54,931 --> 00:48:56,911

doing any kind of presentation work.

:

00:48:57,661 --> 00:49:00,871

Really, it's so important to

understand my curiosity and respect,

:

00:49:00,901 --> 00:49:05,191

uh, are underused persuasion tools

that can open a lot of doors.

:

00:49:05,581 --> 00:49:08,671

So, Brad's upcoming book, tell

Me Everything is gonna dive even

:

00:49:08,671 --> 00:49:12,391

deeper into these skills and is

due out in February next year.

:

00:49:12,391 --> 00:49:16,501

So do make sure you're following Brad if

you want to go deeper on these topics.

:

00:49:16,951 --> 00:49:20,881

If you want my free companion study

guide to all of Brad's top tips from

:

00:49:20,881 --> 00:49:23,851

this episode, check out the show

notes or the YouTube description.

:

00:49:23,851 --> 00:49:24,751

It's gonna be in there.

:

00:49:24,816 --> 00:49:26,166

Free for you to download.

:

00:49:26,166 --> 00:49:28,506

No email addresses need to be

entered or anything like that.

:

00:49:28,506 --> 00:49:32,826

You can just download it for free

and keep it for your reference.

:

00:49:32,826 --> 00:49:36,846

Until next time, keep showing

up with presence, influence, and

:

00:49:36,846 --> 00:49:40,686

the curiosity to really see and

hear the people in front of you.

:

00:49:40,956 --> 00:49:41,316

See you soon.

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About the Podcast

Show artwork for Present Influence: The Professional Speaking Show
Present Influence: The Professional Speaking Show
Speak to inspire. Influence with integrity. Lead with presence.

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About your host

Profile picture for John Ball

John Ball

John Ball is a keynote coach and professional speaker on a mission to help upcoming leaders master their communication, create impact and stand out as experts in their field.
John left the high life of his flying career to do something more meaningful to him and has since worked with several leading personal and professional development organisations as a lead coach and trainer.
The heart of everything John does involves helping people shift to personal responsibility and conscious awareness of how they show up and perform in every situation, whilst equipping them with the tools to be exceptional.
John also co-hosts The Coaching Clinic Podcast with his great friend and colleague Angie Besignano.
He lives in the beautiful city of Valencia, Spain with his husband and often visits the UK and US for speaking and training engagements. When he's not speaking or podcasting, he's likely to be out swimming, kayaking or enjoying time with friends.

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