Become an Authoritative Speaker | Chris Marr

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Would you describe yourself as being authoritative, whether that's on the

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platform or in your general communication?

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Where does authoritativeness

crossover potentially into arrogance,

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and how do we make sure we avoid

that so we can stay relatable

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and connected with our audiences?

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All this and much more, is gonna

be covered in this special 200th

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episode of Present Influence

with my guest, Chris Marr.

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This was the second conversation that I

had with him because he came onto my other

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show, which is called The Coaching Clinic.

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And if you are a coach then you

may want to check out the episode

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with Chris on the coaching clinic.

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So welcome to Present Influence the

show for speaking and communication

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professionals to help you master

your speaking skills and be able

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to impact, influence, and inspire.

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My name's John Ball.

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I'm your guide here on this journey

to mastery level communication skills.

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Make sure you're following the show for

weekly guest and solo episodes and why not

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connect with me on LinkedIn as well to get

the Present influence Weekly newsletter.

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First of all, welcome to

Present Influence, Chris Marr.

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We're very happy to have you with me.

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Chris Marr: Thank you, John.

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I'm glad to be here.

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I'm excited to have a

conversation with you today.

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John: I'm excited to get to speak

to you again because we have

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just recorded an episode four.

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The other show that I do with my good

friend, Angie, the coaching clinic

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and definitely I'm gonna say to anyone

listening to this, if you have a coaching

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practice as part of what you do, we will

touch on some of those things today.

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But you definitely want to go and

check out that episode as well.

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Different conversation.

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Anyway, I thinking always speaking

to the same guest twice a year.

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There's very good reason for that.

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Which you'll want to stay tuned for.

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But you have a book that I really

enjoyed called The Authoritative Coach.

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I've been practicing saying

that, so I think I've just about

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wrapped my tongue around it now.

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But I found it really useful just

in terms of, I felt that one of

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the key themes of the book that

you talk about was people pleasing.

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Certainly something that

I've struggled with before.

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And I just wanted to get us maybe

a bit of an overview for you as to

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where your coaching has been and

that kind of people you work with,

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and what led you to focusing on this

authoritative side of the coaching world.

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Chris Marr: Yeah.

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I think from a branding perspective,

one of the things that we need

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to do is we need to have a

lane that we stay in, right?

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So I think even the sort of more

practical element of owning a

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word, like authoritative or owning

a phrase like people pleasing

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when I first was establishing the

brand, there was nobody else really

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talking about things like that.

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And I thought, you know what?

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Then maybe there's something in

this that I can really dig into.

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So from a branding perspective, it made

sense for me to pick something that

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hadn't already been well established.

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So that was one practical element

of it, but other part of it was

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just understanding like that

there's a big need for people to

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turn up in an authoritative way.

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And I think when you're

thinking about anything that

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you're bringing to an audience.

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And an audience could be a client or

from the stage, or even on the podcast as

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well, is that owning your expertise and

owning your ideas is a big part of the,

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a big part of helping other people to

feel confident about what you're saying.

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So if I came into this show, for example,

and I was a little bit heady about.

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My ideas would be like I've been

thinking about this thing and maybe

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it's this, maybe it's that, or whatever.

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And I was, people would be like I

don't, I'm not really sure about this

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guy, like what he's saying if I'm

quite confident that he knows what

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he's talking about, or that his ideas

are actually substantive, right?

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That they have any foundation.

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And so there's something about how

people pleasing manifest itself in you.

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The way that you present your

ideas to the world in a sort

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of committed and convicted way.

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And I don't know, I always say

this 'cause I think it's accurate,

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but also polite to say that you're

accidentally diminishing your authority.

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I.

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People aren't doing it deliberately.

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People aren't going into the

world to deliberately undermine

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themselves, but there's many

ways that it manifests itself.

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Sometimes it's the way we turn up.

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Sometimes it's the doubt that we bring

in that doesn't lead to confidence.

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I wonder why people don't hook onto

our ideas because we are the ones that

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are actually the doubtful ones, right?

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Or we're minimizing or

diminishing our own authority.

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And so I think that's

been a journey for myself.

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Of course.

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But then also seeing it in others

as well and being able to help them

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understand maybe what's going on there

and how to overcome that and present

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their ideas better to the world or just

turn up in a more authoritative way.

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And so I think that's a

big part of it, right?

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It's not about authority.

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Having power over people, but turning

up in a way that influences others.

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And the way to do that is to

be authoritative about it,

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right in your presentation.

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And like I said, it manifests

itself in many different ways, but

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that's really the broad brush, John.

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John: What then is the difference

between being confident and being

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authoritative, or is it just.

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Like parts of the same thing.

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Chris Marr: Yeah.

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There's probably two major things

to consider here, is that I look

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at this as like a spectrum and I

often say that the level of respect

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that you'll gain from your clients.

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Or the level of respect that

you'll receive from your clients

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can never be higher than the

respect that you have for yourself.

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So what we're really talking about there

is that if I want to get respect from

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an audience or people to respect my

expertise or my ideas, I have to turn

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up in a way that where I respect them

and myself in that space as well, right?

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So you're never gonna receive respect.

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Any more than the level

that you respect yourself.

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So that's about how committed and

convicted you are to your own expertise.

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One of the major gaps, I think, is

what people would probably normally

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call imposter syndrome, right?

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Which is the gap between where

you are and where you wanna be.

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And so oftentimes, I'm working

with coaches or with clients facing

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professionals that aren't quite

where they want to be, right?

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Which means that they've got like a

sort of leap to make, I call it the peer

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threshold, which is ultimately going

from what I call the friend zone, where

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you know, you're getting some pushback

and some resistance on your ideas.

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You get some respect, but ultimately

you're not quite where you want to

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be, and there's a gap between where

you are and where you wanna be.

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And I think imposter

syndrome, in other words.

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There's a set of skills that you

haven't learned yet that you need

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to develop and learn and practice.

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It's gonna shift you into what I

call that peer threshold space.

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In other words, you can turn up in

any room with any group of people with

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any job title and feel like you are.

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You have a right to be there, that

you're supposed to be in this room,

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and that you're at that peer level with

people that would, A good example of

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this would be like even me, for example,

a coach in his forties working with a

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very successful CEO in their sixties.

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Can I be in that space

and be the authority?

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And that's the leap that I think a lot

of people are wanting to make is to go

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in and not feel like the supplicant in

their own expertise, where they're the

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ones that are the expert on the stage,

on the podcast, wherever it might be.

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And then of course, as you go further down

the spectrum, you get to the place where

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You're a high people pleaser, right?

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And I think that's, you're getting

into the area where you are

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turning up and there's a lot of

things that you are doing that are

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ultimately setting you up to fail.

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And one of the things that I've seen

a lot is that, need to be liked.

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The people pleasing is ultimately holding

them back from being a great coach or

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a great consultant or a great expert.

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But you've gotta take that one step

further because of your need to be liked

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and your people pleasing behaviors, you

are actually holding your clients back

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from doing their best work as well.

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And so hopefully hearing that motivates

people to get out of that space and move

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more towards becoming that authority.

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John: I definitely wanna come back in a

moment to where that fits with people from

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on the stage, like professional speakers.

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Before we do that though, just because

I should have asked you this yesterday,

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really, but just so we have a sense,

like you say you work with coaches and

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who are the people that you typically

work with and maybe even the audiences

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that you speak to as well from the stage,

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Chris Marr: yeah, I've got quite a broad

range of different types of people because

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the area that I'm in is helping people

to step into their expertise essentially.

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And so I work, so a broad range.

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For example, I work with

agency owners, right?

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So they're leaders.

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That want to influence their

team and work through people.

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So I work with people pleasing

shows up in leadership, right?

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That's avoiding difficult conversations,

avoiding difficult feedback

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that you need to give to people.

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It manifests itself in so many ways.

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One of the ways with owners is that they

still continue to do the work for others.

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And obviously that, gets in

the way of growth as well.

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So there's lots of ways

it turns up in leadership.

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And then there's the client facing

professionals, account managers,

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project managers, those people that

are doing the day-to-day client work

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inside larger organizations from

marketing to sales, right through to,

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accounting and hr, those group of people.

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And then of course, I work with

individuals who, it might be like

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a specific coach or consultant in

a specific vertical or industry.

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And I work with them too.

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To build their programs and set

themselves up to be the authority in

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their space, which is massively about

communication, but also looking at how

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they position themselves in the market

as well from a marketing perspective.

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So yeah, it's a broad range, but the

one thing that they all have in common

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is that people pleasing is holding

them back from doing their best work.

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John: How might that

fit then for people on.

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On the platform, on the stage,

or where might you see that?

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How are you gonna know if a speaker

is being affected by people pleasing?

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Chris Marr: I think there's a really easy

one here, which is if you go on the stage,

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you've got a 45 minute slot and you're

thinking about what am I going to say?

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One of the things that you can control

or you feel like you're in control

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of is if I can just talk solid for 45

minutes, then at least I'm in control

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of everything that's happening.

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But that leads to a pretty boring talk,

probably of you just like vomiting

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all over the audience with what?

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It's that you got to see.

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I.

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So what would it look like to

relinquish some of that control

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and turn it into a question for

the audience, for example, right?

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So people pleasing or imposter syndrome

might feel like you're afraid to do

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certain things, take risks, do things

a little bit differently, right?

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So I think there's, I think

that's definitely one way.

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And one of the things I'm just reflecting

on, a recent client that I had, who's

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actually got a presentation today one of

his biggest challenges was coming onto

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the stage, for example, and saying the

comfort zone, which would be my name

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is, and I'm here today to talk about

this is what we're gonna be covering and

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this is what you're gonna get from it.

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Instead of coming in with a really high

energy and literally asking the audience a

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question that requires a response from the

room to start Actually, like for example,

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instead of telling everybody what you're

going to do with them today, can they get

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a sense of it within the first 60 seconds

because they're already engaged with

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the work that you're doing, and that's.

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Like you're, you want the audience

to like you and you want to stay

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in control and that keeps you safe.

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But ultimately what we're looking

for is how can we engage the audience

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and get 'em involved in this sort

of shared story element of it.

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So that's certainly one thing

that springs to mind is like what

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happens in that first 60 seconds,

that first two minutes on stage.

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This comes from a place, John, that

I learned this lesson myself as well.

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I was in a restaurant with my mentor

and coach at the time, which was I

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wanna say it was like seven or eight

years ago or something like that.

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Just so happened that

I had a talk coming up.

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It was on social media

or something like that.

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And one of the things he said

to me, John, was, okay, cool.

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Tell me about your presentation.

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Let me help you.

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And then he just goes, so what's

the first question you're gonna ask?

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And I was like, what do you mean he is

in your presentation, what's the first

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question you're gonna ask the audience?

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I was like I'm not, I

haven't got a question.

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I've just got lots of stuff

that I want to talk about.

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And it's okay, we've got

some work to do here.

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To teach you how to use questions for

self-discovery, to get the audience to

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understand the problem for themselves.

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You don't tell them, you show them.

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And that was one of my biggest lessons.

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I'd say one other thing here though,

I think that's relevant because

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you might be wondering who, how

did the audience know who you are?

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And.

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Do and what this is gonna be all about.

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And one of the things I did with my client

this week, for example, was I taught him.

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Ultimately it taught 'em how to

control the controllables, but

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also how to get ahead of problems

before they become problems and

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what we call the Vanguard principle.

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And one of those things is to,

you've probably heard people talk

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about this on your show before,

but to write your own intro.

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Then give it to the mc and get the mc to

practice it, and then check with them on

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the day that they've actually got it and

they're gonna say it the way that you

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need it to be said so that when you go on

stage, you don't have to do any of that.

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And you can come in with this high energy

and you could come in with the really

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great question that you've practiced and

engaged the audience from the very start.

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So I would say to me, that's one

of the most important things.

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To tackle with people that want to be an

authority on stage is can you get 'em to

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step on the stage and engage the audience

immediately in that first 60 seconds?

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That first, two minutes even.

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John: I tell you why I really like

that, Chris, is because I've just

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finished I, I do, I read a lot

of books, especially audio books.

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I love audiobooks and I just finished

one called the Expectation Effect.

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I don't even if you've heard of

it can't remember the name of the

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author off the top of my head, but

very interesting just in terms of.

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Ju how much of our life and our

experience is created or generated

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by expectation to the point of which

it can actually affect things like

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our longevity or our general health.

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Whether, if we have negative, just

some stuff I've listen to it, if we

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have negative associations about.

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Aging, for example, we're probably

gonna age more quickly if we have

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negative feelings about older people.

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There's just one example.

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But there's so much of life that

comes into Creating that kind of

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introduction for yourself to make sure

what's said actually needs to be said

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is creating that expectation effect

to a degree with your audience of

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like pre-framing them on authority.

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Chris Marr: Yes, a hundred percent.

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I don't know that a lot of people

think that they can do this stuff

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and it's like you've gotta step

into the places where you can have

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more control than you have already.

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And certainly the intro and the

outro, this is what I was working

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with my client on, is write the

intro, have them practice it.

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Make sure on the day that they're gonna

read it the way that you need it to.

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So you don't have to do the quote

unquote boring intro on the stage.

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Let's set yourself up for success.

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Essentially set the

conditions for success.

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Similarly, the outro is important as well.

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So oftentimes you're not allowed

number one is oftentimes you're not

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allowed to pitch from the stage.

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It's just like part of the conditions

you're not allowed to pitch.

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But most people aren't very good at it.

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But if.

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You can set it up so that the mc says It

was a great presentation today, Chris.

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The audience got a lot from it.

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If someone in the room was interested

in working with you going forward, what

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would be the best way for them to do that?

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And so if the mc knows to ask

you this question, at the end,

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you're not pitching anymore.

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You're answering a genuine question that

the audience then hear the answer to.

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And I was teaching 'em this as well.

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It's if you want to make this

work for you, you've got to get

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the mc to help you, to help the

audience to help things move along.

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So that's just another similar

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John: I think there, there are so many.

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There, there are a bunch of

different ways of doing that.

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I like that one.

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I haven't heard that before.

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But yeah, how you close off to be

able to set yourself up for people

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to come and follow up with inquiries.

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'cause you generally can't pitch

events unless that's been prearranged

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and you prob as you say, you

probably don't want to even do that.

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Unless you're good at it,

and most people just aren't.

301

: 00:15:32

For many reasons.

302

: 00:15:33

Mostly because people fall apart

when you start talking about money

303

: 00:15:36

and offers and things like that.

304

: 00:15:37

It needs to be really well practiced.

305

: 00:15:39

The whole authoritative concept, right?

306

: 00:15:41

There's this whole thing of like, when

you're on a platform or you're being

307

: 00:15:44

presented as a speaker, whether it's a

virtual event or a real in person event

308

: 00:15:50

the fact that you are up there, that

your name is listed as a speaker, that.

309

: 00:15:54

Provides a certain amount of

authority expectation as well.

310

: 00:15:58

But it seems, especially from your book

as well, that there's an inner game and

311

: 00:16:02

there's an outer game when it comes to

this, like maybe some of the after game

312

: 00:16:05

things like your brand concept and how

you talk about what you do and the inner

313

: 00:16:10

game of that mindset of really owning it.

314

: 00:16:12

Could you lay that out a

bit more for us as to how.

315

: 00:16:15

What needs to happen on both levels, and

probably a big question, but as best you

316

: 00:16:20

can give us a bit of an outline there.

317

: 00:16:23

Chris Marr: I guess if

we're talking about.

318

: 00:16:24

Like you, a good place to, to focus on.

319

: 00:16:27

There might be like the

pre-game jitters, for example.

320

: 00:16:30

Like where anxiety shows up.

321

: 00:16:32

I'm sure that many people have talked

about this before, but oftentimes

322

: 00:16:36

anxiety showing up where we're like, that

imposter syndrome's showing up for us

323

: 00:16:40

because we're too focused on ourselves.

324

: 00:16:43

And one of the inner game pieces I

found to be really helpful for me,

325

: 00:16:47

even coming into this podcast today,

and the one that we did yesterday,

326

: 00:16:50

I just wrote down an intention for

me, like I know a bunch of stuff.

327

: 00:16:54

My hope is it comes out

in an articulate way.

328

: 00:16:57

My intention is that it, like

that, I want it to, but ultimately

329

: 00:17:01

the overarching intention is can

I help the people listening or

330

: 00:17:04

watching this be better in some way?

331

: 00:17:06

Can I help?

332

: 00:17:07

That's basically it.

333

: 00:17:08

And so the inner game with even going

onto a stage, and this is a platform as

334

: 00:17:13

much as a stage is a platform as well.

335

: 00:17:15

The stakes might be higher.

336

: 00:17:16

Since you're in person, people can

throw things at you if they want to.

337

: 00:17:19

But the point I'm trying to make is

that you come in with an intention.

338

: 00:17:24

In other words, you could, on any

given day, your confidence might

339

: 00:17:29

drop around the skills that you have.

340

: 00:17:32

But you can always be 100%

confident about your intention

341

: 00:17:35

to serve others and help others.

342

: 00:17:37

And I think that's a big part of the inner

game , is focusing on your intention.

343

: 00:17:42

And one of the other things I

like to think about a lot is that.

344

: 00:17:46

Is this inner game of letting go.

345

: 00:17:48

One of the, one of the books that every

time someone says mentions inner game, I

346

: 00:17:52

just think about the Inner Game of Tennis

by Timothy Galloway, and I've read that

347

: 00:17:56

book so many times now that it just,

I understand this idea of can I create

348

: 00:18:02

the conditions in my body and my mind.

349

: 00:18:07

Trust that my practiced skills will

show up in the moment for me that

350

: 00:18:13

I think, is trying to explain it.

351

: 00:18:15

I can give you the science on it,

but there's something about trusting

352

: 00:18:21

your skills to show up, trusting your

expertise to show up in the moment and

353

: 00:18:27

not chasing it, or not forcing it or

not, not telling yourself to do it right.

354

: 00:18:33

But allowing yourself, allowing it to show

up in the world for you when you need it.

355

: 00:18:38

So for example, you might be

stepping into a really high stakes

356

: 00:18:42

session with a client, or like maybe

you're doing a pitch, for example,

357

: 00:18:45

like really high stakes stuff.

358

: 00:18:47

But can you trust yourself that

359

: 00:18:49

everything's gonna show up in the

right way for you in the moment.

360

: 00:18:52

And I think we focus too much

on forcing it and like going

361

: 00:18:55

over it over and over ahead.

362

: 00:18:57

It's just it just builds anxiety and

we become, we feel more and more like

363

: 00:19:01

an imposter than we actually are.

364

: 00:19:03

So I'd say that's the inner game.

365

: 00:19:06

I think that's a big factor.

366

: 00:19:08

What do you think, would

you add anything to that,

367

: 00:19:09

John: You for some reason I was

thinking back to my childhood of

368

: 00:19:14

learning to play keyboards and piano

and and just how essential it was

369

: 00:19:18

to keep showing up and practicing

that and staying consistent with it.

370

: 00:19:22

That it, so much of that is

about putting in the work to

371

: 00:19:25

make sure that you can do that.

372

: 00:19:27

And I think one of the

reasons why people often un.

373

: 00:19:29

One of the ways in which people often

undermine themselves is by not doing

374

: 00:19:32

that, not doing enough practice, enough

preparation showing up to some degree,

375

: 00:19:38

half-assing it, but more than that it's,

I think if you show up for a talk that

376

: 00:19:42

you are delivering not fully prepared and

rehearsed, it is probably almost unfair

377

: 00:19:47

to be charging for it because you're not

gonna be able to deliver what someone

378

: 00:19:51

could and I do think, it's not just the 45

minutes or whatever that you are on stage,

379

: 00:19:57

that you're being paid for, you are being

paid for all the work that you've put

380

: 00:20:01

into all the practice, all the rehearsal

that you get paid for multiple times, but.

381

: 00:20:07

I think it's only when you do that and

you can really embody it, and usually you

382

: 00:20:11

can trust yourself to be able to deliver

that without fear of things falling

383

: 00:20:16

apart 'cause where people tend to get

really bogged down in fear is where they

384

: 00:20:22

don't know where they're gonna go next.

385

: 00:20:23

Or they're afraid of freezing up

or not saying the right thing.

386

: 00:20:27

That is generally not gonna happen if

you are sufficiently well prepared.

387

: 00:20:32

Chris Marr: prepared.

388

: 00:20:34

Yes.

389

: 00:20:34

I think all of those, so we're talking,

there's, I think there's a middle ground

390

: 00:20:38

between the inner game and the outer game.

391

: 00:20:39

This is the middle ground.

392

: 00:20:40

'cause there's the inner stuff,

which is not you can't point at it.

393

: 00:20:43

It's even hard to explain or teach.

394

: 00:20:45

It's just like you are

just training your mind.

395

: 00:20:47

They call it performance mindset, I think.

396

: 00:20:49

Just like training your mind to do high

stake stuff and still be grounded in

397

: 00:20:54

your confidence while you're doing it.

398

: 00:20:55

But there's no question, John, that

reps, quantity and quality of reps.

399

: 00:21:00

In other words.

400

: 00:21:02

Like every difficult conversation

you've been in, or difficult situ

401

: 00:21:05

or high stakes situation you've been

in, the mistakes you've made, did

402

: 00:21:09

you immediately learn from them?

403

: 00:21:11

Are you on a path of skill

development and skill acquisition?

404

: 00:21:15

I think people miss this.

405

: 00:21:16

Oftentimes it's like

everything's skill acquisition.

406

: 00:21:19

So if you, for example, take your

example, if I feel like I'm lacking

407

: 00:21:23

confidence around being able to hold a

45 minute talk of the fear of perhaps

408

: 00:21:29

losing my way, what's the skill?

409

: 00:21:32

Who's the coach?

410

: 00:21:33

How do I get the help?

411

: 00:21:34

I need your one skill away

from figuring that out.

412

: 00:21:37

And I think that's a really

good way to look at things.

413

: 00:21:39

'cause it gives you a

quick path to get there.

414

: 00:21:41

So I think reps.

415

: 00:21:42

Quality and quantity of reps,

deliberate practice, skill, acquisition.

416

: 00:21:48

Those are all the activities, the leading

indicators I would say of success.

417

: 00:21:54

You're doing all the work, and you're

getting as much from it as possible.

418

: 00:21:58

One of the things I've thought about a

lot, John, is like I put the book out a

419

: 00:22:00

couple of years ago, the authoritative

coach there was people in the same job

420

: 00:22:04

doing the same work as me at the same

time, except somehow I managed to extract

421

: 00:22:11

all the value from it and produce my

first book from it, which is gonna be many

422

: 00:22:15

books, but this is the first book from it.

423

: 00:22:17

Whereas somebody else still doing that job

just not getting, do you know what I mean?

424

: 00:22:21

I'm like.

425

: 00:22:22

This obsession of to get from

everything you're doing right.

426

: 00:22:26

What am I gonna learn from

this conversation with you?

427

: 00:22:28

I've got a client called

directly after this.

428

: 00:22:31

How's that gonna develop my expertise?

429

: 00:22:33

There's this obsession

to just constantly like.

430

: 00:22:37

This in a really healthy way.

431

: 00:22:38

It's like a love or obsession of the

work that you do to continually improve.

432

: 00:22:43

I don't even think about

it that much these days.

433

: 00:22:44

It's just I want to get from

everything that I'm doing so

434

: 00:22:47

I can improve and get better.

435

: 00:22:48

And it's skills, it's patterns, it's

insights, it's expertise, ultimately.

436

: 00:22:55

John: I think there is something that

comes from this, and I've seen it on my

437

: 00:22:58

own coaching journey and I see it, I do

see it with other coaches as well, of

438

: 00:23:02

when you first get started in coaching,

speaking as well to some degree.

439

: 00:23:05

You're in it, you're doing it.

440

: 00:23:06

It's all very much about the

delivery and getting your reps

441

: 00:23:11

and getting the experience.

442

: 00:23:13

But at some point, hopefully you start to

take a little bit of an overview position

443

: 00:23:18

on what you do as well, where you can

be a bit more analytical, a bit more

444

: 00:23:22

meta if you like about things, which is

where you can start to extract things

445

: 00:23:27

like you have with the authoritative coach

of this is, these are the frameworks and

446

: 00:23:32

the processes that I work with to get

these results and help you along the way.

447

: 00:23:36

And I don't think you can really do that.

448

: 00:23:38

And until you put yourself into a

position where you can take a little

449

: 00:23:42

bit of distance and give yourself some

overview over what you actually do

450

: 00:23:46

because you have to not be in it to be

able to see it from that perspective.

451

: 00:23:50

Chris Marr: there is a journey there.

452

: 00:23:52

I think I can articulate

it quite simply, right?

453

: 00:23:54

There's two things I

think to consider here.

454

: 00:23:56

One is the levels of learning, right?

455

: 00:23:59

Again, this is something I think

I've thought about a lot, but there's

456

: 00:24:01

this idea that level one is to study.

457

: 00:24:04

So you're reading the books, you

are learning from other people.

458

: 00:24:06

You're in this box of other people's

thoughts and ideas, gaining all

459

: 00:24:09

the foundation knowledge and

understanding of what exists.

460

: 00:24:11

And then you've got

practice level two, right?

461

: 00:24:13

So I'm getting the foundational knowledge.

462

: 00:24:15

I'm in the room, I'm doing

the sessions, I'm doing the

463

: 00:24:18

talks, I'm doing the workshops.

464

: 00:24:19

I'm cutting my teeth.

465

: 00:24:20

I'm at the.

466

: 00:24:21

Chamber of commerce.

467

: 00:24:22

I'm at the free events, I'm doing all

the, all those things where there's

468

: 00:24:26

no microphones and there's no stages

and it's all that stuff, right?

469

: 00:24:29

And you're getting all your reps in.

470

: 00:24:30

So you're studying and you're practicing.

471

: 00:24:32

And then the third level

is to teach, right?

472

: 00:24:34

Is to teach what you're

learning to others.

473

: 00:24:36

And I think as you

score up this ladder of.

474

: 00:24:40

You start to build your expertise, like

you said, you see a broader view of

475

: 00:24:43

it, which then I think that transition

happens next, which is, okay, over the

476

: 00:24:48

years of all my work, what patterns have

I seen in, in the work that I'm doing?

477

: 00:24:53

What are the insights?

478

: 00:24:54

What am I learning?

479

: 00:24:55

So an insight might be, it's got

an insight, is something that if

480

: 00:24:58

I told it to you for the first

time, it would surprise you.

481

: 00:25:02

It's something that you don't know.

482

: 00:25:03

Because I've worked so long in this

area, I've learned that people think

483

: 00:25:08

this, but actually this is true, and

they go, wow, that's interesting.

484

: 00:25:11

That's an insight, which ultimately then

can be turned into frameworks, right?

485

: 00:25:17

Frameworks are things that experts develop

because they had to do a lot of guesswork.

486

: 00:25:22

Then a lot of hard work, and then

they can turn it into framework

487

: 00:25:25

so you don't have to do the

guesswork and the hard work anymore.

488

: 00:25:28

You can get there a lot

faster, a lot better, and I

489

: 00:25:31

John: something I wanted to

get to with you actually.

490

: 00:25:32

How important are things

like frameworks and

491

: 00:25:35

branding from that perspective for

being an authority as a coach, as a

492

: 00:25:39

speaker, or however you are showing up?

493

: 00:25:42

Chris Marr: Yeah, I think it's absolutely

critical that you're developing your

494

: 00:25:46

own ip, that you're able to extract

patterns and insights from your work

495

: 00:25:50

over time and get somebody, like

if you're taking someone through,

496

: 00:25:54

this happens all the time with me.

497

: 00:25:55

I'll be honest with client session

with someone, they'll be like, how

498

: 00:25:57

would you tackle this, Kristen?

499

: 00:25:59

I'm like, huh.

500

: 00:26:00

It's the first time I've

really, let's lay it out.

501

: 00:26:02

I'm like, actually that's it.

502

: 00:26:04

That's the steps.

503

: 00:26:05

Now I could turn that into a

step-by-step guide, a framework, a

504

: 00:26:10

illustration something that helps the

next person get there a lot faster.

505

: 00:26:16

I'm attracted to it naturally.

506

: 00:26:18

I think I love, like when I'm reading

a book and there's illustrations

507

: 00:26:23

and you can show people the journey.

508

: 00:26:27

I think that matters.

509

: 00:26:27

People need to see that.

510

: 00:26:28

I think it's a really simple

way to, to get that across.

511

: 00:26:31

So I think there's something about, and

I think we should recognize this and

512

: 00:26:35

appreciate it more, especially of our

contemporaries, which is when someone's

513

: 00:26:40

got something complex, dialed into a

simple chart or a simple framework or

514

: 00:26:46

simple illustration, they have worked

really hard to figure out how to

515

: 00:26:51

communicate that to you in a simple way.

516

: 00:26:54

Without it being overly reductive, right?

517

: 00:26:56

Don't want to undermine your

authority 'cause you've made

518

: 00:26:58

it so incredibly simple.

519

: 00:26:59

But at the same time, there's something

really important about being able to

520

: 00:27:06

communicate complex things in simple

ways, and those are frameworks, methods.

521

: 00:27:13

Tools.

522

: 00:27:14

And I think there's something really

interesting if you can get to a position

523

: 00:27:17

where you're ultimately developing your

own version of those things as well.

524

: 00:27:22

I think it's okay to share other people's

frameworks, but I would argue that

525

: 00:27:27

the lesson I've learned, and I can be

completely honest with this because

526

: 00:27:30

I put radical candor in my book, but

V two is not gonna have it in there.

527

: 00:27:33

Because to me, looking back now,

that was a silly thing to do.

528

: 00:27:38

It would've been much more sensible

for me to perhaps not have published

529

: 00:27:42

a book and figured out what my

framework is, 'cause I've got it now.

530

: 00:27:46

Like I have developed my own

framework that supersedes radical

531

: 00:27:49

candor for the work that I do.

532

: 00:27:52

But I wasn't there yet, and so

somebody else's model worked

533

: 00:27:55

until I figured out my own model.

534

: 00:27:58

And so you're taking all this and

tried, it's like a quite a, it's

535

: 00:28:01

like a creative process, right?

536

: 00:28:04

It evolves over time, but you've got

radical candor and you're learning

537

: 00:28:06

about authority over here, and

you're bringing this book and you've

538

: 00:28:09

got all this sort of foundational

knowledge and understanding of.

539

: 00:28:12

Current models and frameworks, and then

you can apply your own lens or your

540

: 00:28:17

own perspective onto it, and then you

turn it into something of your own.

541

: 00:28:21

Like this is something I pulled from

Seneca's letters from a few thousand

542

: 00:28:25

years ago, was, how long are you going

to live in other people's notebooks?

543

: 00:28:30

How long are you going to

live in other people's work?

544

: 00:28:34

When will this become

something of your own?

545

: 00:28:37

That stuck with me.

546

: 00:28:38

It's like I've got, turn these

words that you're learning from

547

: 00:28:41

other people into works of your own.

548

: 00:28:43

And that to me is a big part of this

idea of building your own foundation

549

: 00:28:48

of expertise, illustrations, tools,

frameworks, methods, getting them branded

550

: 00:28:54

up, calling them something, giving them a

name and putting them out into the world.

551

: 00:28:58

John: Always welcome a bit of stoic wisdom

onto the show, so I appreciate that.

552

: 00:29:02

I do think, personally, I think it

is essential, especially for speakers

553

: 00:29:05

and coaches who are in personal and

professional development, which is

554

: 00:29:09

most not all there are some maybe

for who framework aren't quite gonna

555

: 00:29:13

be so important for various reasons.

556

: 00:29:15

Probably for most of the

people who this show is for.

557

: 00:29:19

It is and it is that thing of

them having your own stuff.

558

: 00:29:22

And I do think you really

can't stand up as an authority.

559

: 00:29:26

In someone else's stuff,

like I've seen this in.

560

: 00:29:29

The professional training world

for example, I've been involved

561

: 00:29:32

with professional training personal

professional development companies

562

: 00:29:35

for years, and I've seen trainers

be trained the way that the

563

: 00:29:38

original speakers were trained.

564

: 00:29:39

The same stories, exactly the same

program, the delivery style and all that.

565

: 00:29:43

It's not their stuff, it's not their way.

566

: 00:29:46

They have to find themselves all

over again when they move out

567

: 00:29:48

that into doing their own stuff.

568

: 00:29:51

For when you do have that, when you

do find that for yourself, I think

569

: 00:29:55

it is, it's incredibly empowering for

your identity to be able to feel that.

570

: 00:30:01

So it is that, I see what you say

about the bridge between the inner

571

: 00:30:04

and out work when you have that

stuff, it actually helps with the

572

: 00:30:06

inner work as well of owning that as

being your expertise and authority.

573

: 00:30:12

So I do appreciate that.

574

: 00:30:14

Chris Marr: I think there's a

work there that I would encourage

575

: 00:30:16

everybody to do to sit in the

problem for longer and know that you

576

: 00:30:21

can come up with your own concepts

and your own frameworks and tools.

577

: 00:30:26

I think one of the mistakes I see

people make is that they create

578

: 00:30:31

frameworks because they think

that's what they need to do.

579

: 00:30:34

So they'll ship a framework, but it

has no real foundation in testing.

580

: 00:30:39

So here's a cool way to illustrate a

thing that I've never done before with

581

: 00:30:42

people, but it makes me look good.

582

: 00:30:44

And that's not it there needs to have

based in foundation, like every framework

583

: 00:30:48

I share has the framework is the output

584

: 00:30:50

of having done the work so many times and

even sometimes I'll create a framework

585

: 00:30:55

and then I'll go teach it again.

586

: 00:30:56

I'll be like, still it, like I'm

gonna have to change it so I've

587

: 00:30:59

had to restart things from scratch

because they just didn't quite

588

: 00:31:04

land and you've gotta be prepared.

589

: 00:31:06

To continue to refine

and tweak your stuff.

590

: 00:31:10

And so I think it's important to

recognize that what you're doing here is

591

: 00:31:14

creating tools or methods or frameworks

to make it easy for other people.

592

: 00:31:18

But if you're going to, and I think

this comes back to authority from the

593

: 00:31:22

stage, if you want your framework

or tool or methodology to really

594

: 00:31:27

land, you have to have really

595

: 00:31:30

good stories to illustrate how the

tool actually helps, or stories that

596

: 00:31:38

illustrate where the tool would've

helped if they had used it because they

597

: 00:31:42

made the mistake or had the problem

that you were trying to illustrate.

598

: 00:31:45

And I think it's important to

recognize that it's gotta come

599

: 00:31:48

from something meaningful.

600

: 00:31:49

John: Yeah, a lot.

601

: 00:31:50

A lot of the clients I work with

are people who've come from training

602

: 00:31:53

backgrounds, workshops, even teaching

and coaching backgrounds as well,

603

: 00:31:57

who really struggle to let go of

this idea that everything on the

604

: 00:32:01

stage then needs to be teaching.

605

: 00:32:03

Chris Marr: Oh,

606

: 00:32:04

John: right.

607

: 00:32:04

It needs to be stories, it needs to

be, things need to be illustrated.

608

: 00:32:07

We need to have case studies.

609

: 00:32:09

Otherwise you're just doing

an information dump on people.

610

: 00:32:13

Which.

611

: 00:32:14

May put them to sleep or maybe

they'll pay attention to it,

612

: 00:32:17

but they won't remember it.

613

: 00:32:18

And that's the most important thing.

614

: 00:32:20

They won't take much away from it.

615

: 00:32:22

But they will remember your stories.

616

: 00:32:24

They will remember how you

close things off and what the

617

: 00:32:28

message that you left them with.

618

: 00:32:29

The whole recency bias of things

like, how you close your talk is

619

: 00:32:33

one of the most important things.

620

: 00:32:34

Chris Marr: Yeah.

621

: 00:32:35

There's one thing I'll share

here that I think just helps

622

: 00:32:38

complete this whole thought this

conversation that we're having.

623

: 00:32:41

which is When I'm teaching people how

to do a talk, I teach it in segments.

624

: 00:32:46

So for example, if you had a 60 minute

talk, it might be three segments,

625

: 00:32:49

but you could deliver the same talk.

626

: 00:32:51

You just take a segment out and you

could teach it in 45, for example.

627

: 00:32:54

And these things are like blocks within

your presentation that you can switch

628

: 00:32:57

in and switch out as you need to,

depending on how much time you've got.

629

: 00:33:01

One of the ways that we structure a

segment is through this idea of question,

630

: 00:33:04

story, result, challenge, right?

631

: 00:33:07

And so the question that you ask

the audience is supposed to help, is

632

: 00:33:11

supposed to bring about the problem in

their mind before you tell them what

633

: 00:33:15

the solution is or what the tool is.

634

: 00:33:17

So for example, you wouldn't come into the

audience, say, Hey, I'm gonna teach you

635

: 00:33:20

this really cool tool, and they're like.

636

: 00:33:23

What is it?

637

: 00:33:23

Like they're already resisting the idea,

but if you come in and you ask a question

638

: 00:33:28

that raises the problem that you wanna

solve for, you're gonna have a better

639

: 00:33:32

chance of landing your ideas with them.

640

: 00:33:35

And so the whole idea is engage the

audience through a series of questions.

641

: 00:33:38

Typically two or three questions, right?

642

: 00:33:41

Raise a hand if you've

ever felt like this.

643

: 00:33:42

Great.

644

: 00:33:43

What was the biggest

challenge you had there?

645

: 00:33:45

And then they're, you're engaged and

then you tell a story like another.

646

: 00:33:49

When you get deep into this with

the clients, we actually have them

647

: 00:33:52

map their story to a story arc.

648

: 00:33:55

So they tell the story really

well, and then they can land on

649

: 00:33:59

the result of that story, what the

outcome was, and then leave the

650

: 00:34:03

audience with their own homework,

their challenge, the call to action.

651

: 00:34:06

What are you gonna do next?

652

: 00:34:07

You can even finish with a question,

what's your biggest takeaway?

653

: 00:34:09

Or whatever it might be.

654

: 00:34:10

So when we think about authority and

we think about I think you made a

655

: 00:34:14

really great point, which is, look,

if we're gonna do this, we better.

656

: 00:34:17

Let's do the best we can to make sure the

thing actually sticks with people, right?

657

: 00:34:21

And one of the ways to influence an

audience, to make your ideas stick,

658

: 00:34:25

to help teach it to your audience in

a way that actually stays with them.

659

: 00:34:31

Question, story, result, challenge,

as part of a single segment in your

660

: 00:34:36

workshop or your talk that you're doing.

661

: 00:34:38

And I think about that a lot

when I'm doing the work is okay,

662

: 00:34:41

I wanna teach them this thing.

663

: 00:34:43

What's the problem I'm

really trying to solve here?

664

: 00:34:45

And what's a story that I

have that illustrates this?

665

: 00:34:49

And if I do all of that, and then they

walk out the room and someone bumps

666

: 00:34:54

into them in the corridor and says, Hey,

what was your presentation all about?

667

: 00:34:57

Do I know what they're

going to say to that person?

668

: 00:34:59

And realize I know after going in

that presentation with Chris, I now

669

: 00:35:02

realize that what is it you want

people to say about your presentation?

670

: 00:35:07

And those are the things I think

a lot about when I think about.

671

: 00:35:10

Getting your stuff together, right?

672

: 00:35:13

Preparing well so that when you

get up on that stage, you can

673

: 00:35:19

articulate your ideas, you can tell

stories, you've got your questions.

674

: 00:35:24

You know what problem you're solving for,

you know what you want 'em to leave with.

675

: 00:35:28

Those are the things that I think if you

really dial in on them, you will come

676

: 00:35:32

across more authoritative from the stage

as opposed to waffling through a million

677

: 00:35:41

ideas running over time, going too fast,

and then like everybody in the room's I

678

: 00:35:46

don't know which idea you want me to st.

679

: 00:35:48

What is the thing that you

want me to go away with?

680

: 00:35:50

And I think that's what we do tend

to, and it's like actually the exact

681

: 00:35:54

opposite is slow down, do less, ask

more questions, have better stories,

682

: 00:35:59

and focus on maybe just one thing.

683

: 00:36:01

John: There is this thing I see a

lot of speakers and coaches do, and

684

: 00:36:04

I work with a lot of them on this

particular issue as well of they have

685

: 00:36:07

a sense of what maybe they've managed

to narrow down what they want to take

686

: 00:36:10

out into the world and they figure

out, this is what I think people need.

687

: 00:36:15

And it's I.

688

: 00:36:16

Sorry dear.

689

: 00:36:17

Nobody gives a shit what

you think other people need.

690

: 00:36:20

They know what they want and

that's what you have to give them.

691

: 00:36:23

Now, maybe you can include some of

what they need, what you think they

692

: 00:36:29

need within that, but if you are not

actually giving them what they want

693

: 00:36:33

or helping them solve a problem or get

to somewhere that they really want to

694

: 00:36:36

get to, they're not gonna give a crap.

695

: 00:36:39

Chris Marr: That's right.

696

: 00:36:39

Yeah.

697

: 00:36:40

What's the transformation you,

what's the journey that you're

698

: 00:36:42

trying to get 'em from too?

699

: 00:36:43

I love that.

700

: 00:36:44

Yes, exactly.

701

: 00:36:45

It's not a lecture.

702

: 00:36:46

People aren't coming to sit in the

audience to give you a round of

703

: 00:36:49

applause about how smart you are

about the work that you've done.

704

: 00:36:52

People want something that's

going to move them towards where

705

: 00:36:56

John: Yeah, look I'll give you a

very quick example on this is that

706

: 00:36:59

I'm working on a talk at the moment

is one of the big things about

707

: 00:37:02

is about taking responsibility.

708

: 00:37:04

People do not want to hear that

they need to take responsibility.

709

: 00:37:08

That would be a lecture.

710

: 00:37:09

I need to make this in a way where

taking responsibility for how people

711

: 00:37:13

show up in their life, in their work

situations, in their interactions with

712

: 00:37:17

other people is something that they want.

713

: 00:37:19

Make that look desirable and give them

a pathway to making that happen with a

714

: 00:37:23

very clear result as to why that's gonna

help them and everyone else in doing it.

715

: 00:37:28

It has to be along the

lines of what they want.

716

: 00:37:30

They want to be more productive,

they want better work cultures.

717

: 00:37:33

They want to have psychological

safety, all those good things.

718

: 00:37:36

But if I just go saying the problem

really is that you're not prepared

719

: 00:37:39

to take responsibility for what you

say or how you show up is like no

720

: 00:37:44

one wants to hear that.

721

: 00:37:45

Chris Marr: in how to get

pushback from an audience, right?

722

: 00:37:48

John: no one's gonna buy that.

723

: 00:37:50

I don't wanna hold you for the

whole day 'cause we do have, we both

724

: 00:37:53

have lives to get on with, but I

do wanna get to one thing that you

725

: 00:37:56

may be able to shed some light on.

726

: 00:37:58

A lot of people, certainly coaches,

but certainly speakers as well,

727

: 00:38:02

struggle with this, finding the line

between authority and arrogance.

728

: 00:38:09

And I wonder for you if you have some

guidance around that, I think we talked a

729

: 00:38:12

little bit about it in terms of coaching

in our chat with Angie, but how to avoid

730

: 00:38:16

being an asshole, really, but how do we

avoid that on stage that we can be on

731

: 00:38:20

authority without having to become a diva?

732

: 00:38:22

'cause certainly there is a lot of

those around in the speaking world.

733

: 00:38:26

Chris Marr: Okay.

734

: 00:38:27

So the way I look at this is there's, I.

735

: 00:38:32

Arrogance to me if I'm thinking about

authority and how we then become

736

: 00:38:36

arrogant around our expertise is a simple

phrase, which is, I am always right.

737

: 00:38:45

So if you are on the stage or if

you're on a, like on a podcast like

738

: 00:38:49

this or whatever, there's a lot

of nuanced arrogance as well, like

739

: 00:38:51

the way I turn up, the tone of my

voice, all of that sort of stuff.

740

: 00:38:53

But I think the big piece

is where's it coming from?

741

: 00:38:55

And it's coming from a place of ego,

and that is that I'm always right.

742

: 00:38:59

What I'm saying is right.

743

: 00:39:00

What I'm saying is the only way, what

I'm saying is the way that you all need

744

: 00:39:05

to do this, you all, that's arrogance.

745

: 00:39:07

Arrogance is I'm always right.

746

: 00:39:10

So one of the big lessons I've learned

is that you should always be prepared

747

: 00:39:14

to be wrong or be proven wrong, or be

open-minded to a different perspective.

748

: 00:39:20

That doesn't, there's a lot of

contradiction here because if

749

: 00:39:22

you want people to listen to your

expertise, you should probably.

750

: 00:39:25

Get used to speaking in absolutes,

but that again, doesn't have

751

: 00:39:30

to come from a place of ego.

752

: 00:39:32

Right?

753

: 00:39:32

A place of, I'm always right.

754

: 00:39:35

So I would say and we can't do this on,

on, on the podcast just now, but imagine

755

: 00:39:39

there's three, three overlap circles

in a sort of linear fashion, right?

756

: 00:39:42

So we've got circle in the middle,

in two circles on each side, right?

757

: 00:39:46

The circle in the middle

is competence, right?

758

: 00:39:48

And that's like I know what to do.

759

: 00:39:51

The circle on the right is ego,

and that's, I'm always right.

760

: 00:39:55

And so if you've got the overlap between

competency and ego, you've got arrogance.

761

: 00:39:59

That's somebody who's

coming in ALS, right?

762

: 00:40:02

I know what I'm doing.

763

: 00:40:03

You don't know what you're doing.

764

: 00:40:04

You are all stupid.

765

: 00:40:05

I'm the smartest person in the

room, type of arrogance, right?

766

: 00:40:09

But the overlap that

we really wanna be in.

767

: 00:40:12

On the other side, which is competency

in the middle, overlapping with

768

: 00:40:16

confidence on the other side.

769

: 00:40:18

And those two circles create a

grounded confidence where you

770

: 00:40:22

know what to do and you believe in

yourself whilst you're doing it right.

771

: 00:40:27

So not only do I believe in my

skillset and believe in myself

772

: 00:40:31

to help people and affect people

and influence people, but I also.

773

: 00:40:35

Know the skills in order to do it,

and so you be, you get a mix of where

774

: 00:40:40

we want to be is in this overlap

between confidence and competence

775

: 00:40:44

and have a grounded confidence.

776

: 00:40:46

In other words, I can go into a

room knowing that I've got a certain

777

: 00:40:49

amount of expertise in a certain

area and that I can deploy it.

778

: 00:40:53

I can do that thing when needed too.

779

: 00:40:57

And I can do it in a way where

it lands with people, right?

780

: 00:41:00

So I've learned the skills about how to

influence people around it, but I believe

781

: 00:41:03

in myself and I know what to do as opposed

to I know what to do and I'm always right.

782

: 00:41:09

And that's how I think about the spectrum

of grounded confidence to arrogance.

783

: 00:41:13

And that's.

784

: 00:41:15

Arguably you, what are

we talking about here?

785

: 00:41:19

A life's work to separate yourself

from your ego, essentially

786

: 00:41:22

where arrogance comes from.

787

: 00:41:24

But that's the mental model.

788

: 00:41:25

When I think about it, I just

think, how can I be more in between

789

: 00:41:28

confidence and competence and less

in between competence and ego?

790

: 00:41:33

John: I think it's helpful.

791

: 00:41:33

Look, in the speaking world,

nobody wants to book divas.

792

: 00:41:36

If you show up and you are arrogant

and you are or any right by stuff

793

: 00:41:40

and you're maybe even abrasive

with the audience, you're probably

794

: 00:41:43

not gonna get invited back.

795

: 00:41:45

But also I think there is that other

side to it where you create your brand

796

: 00:41:49

and your framework, and then research or

development things move in a different

797

: 00:41:54

way that perhaps show that what you have

might be a bit outdated or might actually

798

: 00:41:58

need to be modernized or rethought.

799

: 00:42:01

And if you're not open to that, you

are locking yourself into having to

800

: 00:42:05

do things an old way because you've

made that your brand and it has to be

801

: 00:42:09

right, because it's what you do and

that's not gonna serve you either.

802

: 00:42:12

So I think people think that they're

self-serving behaviors because sometimes

803

: 00:42:16

that arrogance, the diva behavior can

get them what they want in the moment,

804

: 00:42:20

but long term it doesn't pay off.

805

: 00:42:22

And so I think it is a really good thing

to wrap up our conversation with that.

806

: 00:42:26

It's a fascinating area that we could

probably go into a lot more, but I really

807

: 00:42:29

enjoyed your perspective on that, Chris.

808

: 00:42:31

For people who want to go and find out

more about you, which I do recommend.

809

: 00:42:35

'cause I really enjoyed

the Authoritative coach.

810

: 00:42:37

It's a great book.

811

: 00:42:38

What's the best way for people to

find out more and connect with you?

812

: 00:42:41

Chris Marr: Yeah, thanks John.

813

: 00:42:42

The best, obviously the book, the Become

an Authoritative Coach is on Amazon.

814

: 00:42:46

And you can get on any store

in Amazon across the world.

815

: 00:42:49

It's about 10 bucks.

816

: 00:42:50

So it's nice and easy to pick up.

817

: 00:42:52

There's also the audio book as

well, which I recommend as well.

818

: 00:42:55

And then you can get on Kindle.

819

: 00:42:56

So that's the book.

820

: 00:42:57

And I think if anyone's wanting like

more recent things from me on an ongoing

821

: 00:43:01

basis, the best place is Instagram.

822

: 00:43:04

At the Authoritative coach and

there's videos, reels, and all

823

: 00:43:07

good stuff happening there as well.

824

: 00:43:09

And then I'd say the last thing,

especially if you go to Instagram, you'll

825

: 00:43:12

see this anyway, but I have a people

pleasing assessment as well to help client

826

: 00:43:16

facing professionals find out where their

people pleasing behaviors are showing up

827

: 00:43:20

the most and how to solve them as well.

828

: 00:43:23

So it's an assessment that takes you

through that, and then gives you coaching

829

: 00:43:26

and training on how to repair those

particular areas that are showing up.

830

: 00:43:30

For your manifesting for you too.

831

: 00:43:32

So those are the best places I think

832

: 00:43:33

John: valuable indeed.

833

: 00:43:34

'cause I certainly, as I said right

at the start maybe before we recorded,

834

: 00:43:37

but I think most of the people who

are doing speaking work are also doing

835

: 00:43:42

coaching, consulting, things like that.

836

: 00:43:43

We need to know this stuff.

837

: 00:43:45

We need to make sure that

we're following that.

838

: 00:43:46

So I really appreciate that.

839

: 00:43:47

I think I've been very lucky this

week that we got to talk about coaching

840

: 00:43:50

with Angie on the coaching clinic.

841

: 00:43:52

Today we got to speak a lot more about

speaking and owning your authority and

842

: 00:43:55

mindset and a deeper dive into stuff.

843

: 00:43:57

It's been a really fascinating

conversation, Chris, and you certainly

844

: 00:44:00

have expressed things very well.

845

: 00:44:01

I've thoroughly enjoyed it.

846

: 00:44:02

I thank you for coming and being

a guest and present influence.

847

: 00:44:05

Chris Marr: Thanks, John.

848

: 00:44:05

It's been great.

849

: 00:44:06

John: Well, I hope you've enjoyed the

show, and if you have, well maybe leave us

850

: 00:44:09

a five star review on your podcast app if

you already have your device in your hand.

851

: 00:44:13

It should be nice and easy to do,

and certainly I will appreciate

852

: 00:44:17

you forever for doing so.

853

: 00:44:19

I don't wanna spend any time

here , banging on about how I've

854

: 00:44:22

got 200 episodes of the show.

855

: 00:44:24

It does feel like a milestone for sure.

856

: 00:44:26

One that I celebrated.

857

: 00:44:27

I talked a little bit more about

that in my solo episode on Wednesday.

858

: 00:44:31

So if you haven't already checked

that out and you want to hear

859

: 00:44:34

some of my journey and experience

to make it to 200 episodes.

860

: 00:44:37

And boy, it has been some ups and downs.

861

: 00:44:39

Please make sure you do that.

862

: 00:44:41

One thing I have been sharing is that

I've recently agreed to go to a story

863

: 00:44:45

slam event, which is where you can

put your name in a hat and potentially

864

: 00:44:48

get pulled up on stage to have five

minutes to tell a story, and then you'll

865

: 00:44:52

get scored on it, and it's a contest.

866

: 00:44:54

Should be a lot of fun.

867

: 00:44:55

So I'm gonna be doing that.

868

: 00:44:56

No guarantees that I'll actually

get called up on stage, but if

869

: 00:44:58

I do, hopefully it'll be fun.

870

: 00:45:00

If I can get a recording of

it, I'll share that with you.

871

: 00:45:02

But next week I am gonna be doing

my first ever open mic comedy night.

872

: 00:45:07

I am excited and I'm also terrified,

but I am looking forward to it.

873

: 00:45:12

I've been working on the

five minute material.

874

: 00:45:15

It needs a little bit of honing,

maybe a bit of practice in front of

875

: 00:45:18

a few people before I take it live on

stage, but I think it's gonna be okay.

876

: 00:45:22

I'm hoping that I'm not going

to completely bomb, but.

877

: 00:45:26

Either way, I'm gonna share the results

with you and, we'll make that into part

878

: 00:45:29

of the show, provided that I could get

a good enough quality recording to share.

879

: 00:45:34

But here's where I wanna wrap up.

880

: 00:45:35

Episode 200, and to say at this point

as well, that, despite last year where

881

: 00:45:41

I really was in two minds as to whether

to carry on with the podcast or to maybe

882

: 00:45:45

call it a day or maybe start something

new, which I did with the coaching clinic,

883

: 00:45:49

I still came back to present influence

because it's so tied in with everything

884

: 00:45:52

else that I want to do professionally.

885

: 00:45:54

And I have to say that the quality of

guests that I'm getting at the moment

886

: 00:46:00

are people like Judy Carter just

recently, but Chris today as well.

887

: 00:46:04

Just amazing.

888

: 00:46:05

And the guests that I'm lining up are

equally exciting specialists and I

889

: 00:46:10

haven't many times just haven't heard

them going on other shows that I listen

890

: 00:46:14

to as a professional coach and speaker.

891

: 00:46:17

So I hope in doing that, that I'm

bringing you people and information that

892

: 00:46:21

other people may not be bringing you.

893

: 00:46:24

So make sure that you stay

tuned for more of that.

894

: 00:46:26

And if you have feedback for the show,

you can certainly get in touch with me.

895

: 00:46:29

LinkedIn is probably the best

place to connect with me.

896

: 00:46:31

I spend a lot of time there.

897

: 00:46:33

Shoot me a message, leave me a voicemail

or a video message if you prefer.

898

: 00:46:37

And if you do prefer email,

by all means, send me an email

899

: 00:46:39

to john@presentinfluence.com.

900

: 00:46:41

I'll be very happy to hear from you.

901

: 00:46:43

Do go and check out the

present influence.com

902

: 00:46:46

website that is is all recently updated

refurbished, completely revamped website.

903

: 00:46:52

I hope you'll enjoy some of the

information and content there and

904

: 00:46:55

maybe even try your hand out the

speaker strengths archetype assessment

905

: 00:46:58

quiz that is there for you as well.

906

: 00:47:01

All right.

907

: 00:47:01

That's it for this special 200th episode.

908

: 00:47:03

We'll see you back next

time with episode 201.

909

: 00:47:07

Wherever you're going, whatever you're

doing, have an amazing rest of your week.

910

: 00:47:10

Take care.

911

: 00:47:11

See you soon.