How to dress and style yourself for maximum influence | Joseph Rosenfeld

Johnny: 00:00:01

Welcome to the show.

Johnny: 00:00:02

My name's Johnny Ball.

Johnny: 00:00:03

This is speaking influence the show where we delve into the world of

Johnny: 00:00:08

influence and persuasion to help you develop your influence and build

Johnny: 00:00:13

authority in your industry and develop and master the skills of ethical

Johnny: 00:00:18

influence and persuasion to become a powerfully persuasive communicator.

Johnny: 00:00:23

We have had all kinds of guests on the show from people talking about

Johnny: 00:00:28

the psychology of influence and persuasion, talking about marketing.

Johnny: 00:00:31

Recently, we've been talking about branding and storytelling and so many

Johnny: 00:00:36

other things besides, that this is going to be a bit of a first on today's show

Johnny: 00:00:41

where we are talking about style now.

Johnny: 00:00:44

Maybe not complete fast.

Johnny: 00:00:46

We did have an episode a while back with Shelly Golden.

Johnny: 00:00:49

She was wonderful talking really about how to look good on Zoom, and that was great.

Johnny: 00:00:54

This is really talking about influence and style with somebody who has been

Johnny: 00:01:00

styling people in Silicon Valley, the tech startup entrepreneurs, the nerdy

Johnny: 00:01:06

geeky kind of guys who in his own profile,

Johnny: 00:01:10

and he says may struggle to be seen or taken seriously, they may have no

Johnny: 00:01:15

clue about how to dress themselves or have any kind of gravitas to their

Johnny: 00:01:20

looks, and sometimes may even struggle to get dates or even to get laid.

Johnny: 00:01:25

And it's understandable then that working with somebody on your personal

Johnny: 00:01:29

style and how you look can make a huge difference to how you are perceived

Johnny: 00:01:34

and therefore to your own ability to be able to influence and persuade.

Johnny: 00:01:40

These are the kinds of things that we get into on today's show.

Johnny: 00:01:43

Joseph Rosenfeld is a professional stylist

Johnny: 00:01:46

who has worked with many tech entrepreneurs and CEOs

Johnny: 00:01:49

and incredibly successful people to help them develop their own personal style.

Johnny: 00:01:54

He knows what he's talking about.

Johnny: 00:01:55

I connected with Joseph in a Clubhouse room.

Johnny: 00:01:58

Yes, clubhouse is still going, it's still happening and it can be

Johnny: 00:02:02

a great place to connect with and have conversations with people who

Johnny: 00:02:06

you may otherwise not get to meet.

Johnny: 00:02:08

That was how I met Dan French, who was on my episode, 100, professor in rhetoric.

Johnny: 00:02:13

I think you're going to enjoy this conversation.

Johnny: 00:02:16

I did a, it was fascinating for me really insightful, and I don't think I've ever

Johnny: 00:02:22

really heard anyone else talking about the style of influence and persuasion before.

Johnny: 00:02:26

So, hopefully it's a fairly unique conversation that

Johnny: 00:02:30

you get to listen to today.

Johnny: 00:02:32

So, i'm just going to leave it to you to enjoy the show

Don: 00:02:36

Welcome to Speaking Influence.

Don: 00:02:38

The show that helps you to master the psychology and application

Don: 00:02:42

of ethical influence and persuasion, in life and business.

Don: 00:02:46

With persuasive presentations and podcasting coach, Johnny Ball.

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Find the link in the show notes and try New Zenler as the all in one

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solution for your business today.

Johnny: 00:03:30

Welcome to Speaking Influence today.

Johnny: 00:03:32

I've made a little bit more of an effort with my appearance

Johnny: 00:03:34

than I might otherwise do.

Johnny: 00:03:35

I've brushed my hair and my beard and everything because I am speaking to a

Johnny: 00:03:40

style advisor, someone who I've been really looking forward to speaking,

Johnny: 00:03:44

we actually connected on Clubhouse a while back, and I was just really

Johnny: 00:03:48

fascinated by his profile and pestered him and asked him to come on the show.

Johnny: 00:03:53

And he finally agreed.

Johnny: 00:03:54

And so I'm very happy to be welcoming Joseph Rosenfeld to the show.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:03:58

Thank you so much for having me.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:04:00

It's great to be with you Johnny.

Johnny: 00:04:02

Joseph, one of the things that I've been most looking forward

Johnny: 00:04:05

to discussing, which I have never really discussed on the show before

Johnny: 00:04:09

is going to be around influence and persuasion and the looks of influence

Johnny: 00:04:14

and persuasion, style and impact of that.

Johnny: 00:04:16

Before we get to into all of that, though, I'd like to know for you,

Johnny: 00:04:20

who is somebody who you particularly, maybe look up to respect and admire for

Johnny: 00:04:25

that influence and persuasion and for what they've done with that, and why?

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:04:30

This will probably be an unusual answer coming from me

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:04:35

if you don't know me, but for people who are listening and watching who do

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:04:39

this will not come as any surprise.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:04:41

That person to me is Stevie Nicks, the singer songwriter,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:04:45

and front woman of Fleetwood Mac.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:04:49

Her music saved my life as a child.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:04:51

And when, so that's already, you know, like significant influence, if you can

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:04:57

say that about another human being thing is way before anyone started talking

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:05:02

about personal branding, I actually was studying her as a kid into my teenage

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:05:08

years and throughout her life, my life.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:05:10

And what I think is so fascinating is she looks like she sounds, and

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:05:20

she looks like, she sounds like she sings and like she writes, so

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:05:26

there's the lyrics or the poetry,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:05:31

there is how she sounds when she sings it, there's the intonation,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:05:36

there's the where she holds tone.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:05:39

And then there's this whole thing about how she looks.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:05:43

And when you listen to the music where you see her in concert, or you look

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:05:51

at her on a music video or in some other kind of performance, like a TV

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:05:57

performance, the way she behaves, the way she shows up, creates a feeling.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:06:07

I call it an aura in her case.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:06:09

I, as the onlooker and the listener am taking all of this in, and I am treated to

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:06:19

an entire experience that comes from her.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:06:23

She's probably the greatest teacher about image and branding that I've ever had.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:06:31

And that's kind of an unusual example.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:06:34

But someone that I could really study and follow and see evolution and at

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:06:41

the same time, some kind of constancy and consistency about her over time.

Johnny: 00:06:46

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:06:47

it's not an answer I would have expected, but the way you explained

Johnny: 00:06:50

it completely makes sense.

Johnny: 00:06:52

And so, so that comes across very well and probably is a testament to her

Johnny: 00:06:56

really knowing herself that well, to be able to come through, like for her

Johnny: 00:07:02

personality and her authenticity to shine through in every aspect of what

Johnny: 00:07:06

she does, how she looks, how she sings, how she writes all of those things.

Johnny: 00:07:10

That is a very powerful thing.

Johnny: 00:07:12

So in terms of influence and persuasion, knowing yourself and having that come

Johnny: 00:07:16

through and communicated through all those aspects, that's incredibly powerful.

Johnny: 00:07:21

So a great example.

Johnny: 00:07:22

Thank you for sharing that.

Johnny: 00:07:24

Wonderful.

Johnny: 00:07:25

I think it's important for us to have a bit of a foundation here in terms

Johnny: 00:07:29

of understanding what it is that you do, because you help a very particular

Johnny: 00:07:34

group of people with their fashion, with their style and their image.

Johnny: 00:07:39

And so maybe in this case, I don't always ask people for full information about

Johnny: 00:07:43

what they did, but in this case, I really want to dive into that a little bit,

Johnny: 00:07:47

because this is one of the things that made me really want to to speak to you.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:07:50

I appreciate that.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:07:52

It's nice to be stood out as someone who's a little different in that regard,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:07:57

you know, everybody gets dressed.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:07:58

The question is, are we all paying attention to how we look in, in

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:08:06

terms of how we use our minds and how we use our own likeness to

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:08:14

communicate with other people.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:08:16

And so it's kind of ironic.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:08:18

You are dressed a certain way today and in a way, we're kind of mirroring

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:08:23

each other, even with our colors.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:08:25

I don't know.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:08:26

It was like I was having a little kind of empathic sense of how I wanted to

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:08:31

show up for you, because I know you on some level and have a sense that

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:08:37

you would show up looking as you do.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:08:40

And so we're both in plaid and I've even got a little rust color going on.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:08:45

That was like a last minute detail that I decided to do.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:08:49

And that kind of sensitivity is exactly the kind of work that, that I do as an

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:08:56

image consultant and personal stylist.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:08:59

Yes.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:09:00

I wear fashionable clothes and yes, I promote the idea of wearing

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:09:04

current fashion for all my clientele.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:09:09

Fashion

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:09:09

isn't what I lead with.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:09:13

Clothes are just tools in the toolbox to help us put on what we need to create

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:09:23

more of a mood and more of a focus for ourselves so that we're able to better

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:09:30

serve the needs of people around us.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:09:34

And that could be professionally, that could be in your family.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:09:39

And that could be in your community.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:09:42

So I'm very interested in understanding who an individual is.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:09:49

And I have a process for doing that, where I study things around a person's

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:09:55

coloring, not just the physical coloring that I call color DNA.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:10:00

Like the color of your eyes, your body red, your slash hemoglobin the whites

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:10:06

of your eyes and teeth, the color or colors of your hair, all of that.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:10:11

But there are all the other colors that you can wear that

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:10:16

support your whole energy.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:10:18

And I love studying a person through the uniqueness of their own color

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:10:25

palette and understanding more about who a person is at their essence.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:10:30

And then I also love to study by a mind map, essentially, what a

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:10:37

person's personal style is on the basis of how a person identifies

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:10:44

with their own personality, qualities, traits, and characteristics, and

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:10:49

how they envision that they would like to grow and develop further.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:10:54

So it's not merely a snapshot of, I am statements that are in the present moment.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:11:02

They are, I want to be, or I need to be more statements

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:11:07

that address the future self.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:11:10

Then what I love to do is take the current fashion, see it as being on the leading

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:11:17

edge of the future, and then helping somebody to not see current fashion as a

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:11:24

trend, but as a signature of the self that marries the now and the later and putting

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:11:32

all of that into now so that a person can achieve can have the look that they are

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:11:39

on the verge of achieving the success that they envisioned for themselves

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:11:44

and that they can do that right now.

Johnny: 00:11:46

That's a very powerful thing.

Johnny: 00:11:47

And what first really, really made me want to reach out to you was

Johnny: 00:11:51

seeing your clubhouse profile.

Johnny: 00:11:53

I mean, you were speaking in a clubhouse room.

Johnny: 00:11:55

I think it was with Bob Burg.

Johnny: 00:11:56

The the guy from I'm forgetting what his, his stuff is called now.

Johnny: 00:12:00

Go Giver a, yeah.

Johnny: 00:12:01

So it was in a room with him and he was speaking in the room and I checked out

Johnny: 00:12:04

your profiles, like, oh, So interesting.

Johnny: 00:12:07

And, and there was a lot of fun in how you describe yourself as well.

Johnny: 00:12:10

It was certainly your character came through in your profile.

Johnny: 00:12:14

I think a lot of people find that I see a lot of profiles

Johnny: 00:12:16

where there's no real character.

Johnny: 00:12:17

There it's just a description, but you had some funds and characters, some

Johnny: 00:12:21

personality coming through in that as well about what you do and who you

Johnny: 00:12:25

help, particularly in round working with people in a Silicon valley, kind of

Johnny: 00:12:32

area and people who might be discarded otherwise as geeks or nerds who

Johnny: 00:12:37

struggle with style and the major maybe will struggle with things like

Johnny: 00:12:40

getting dates and stuff like that.

Johnny: 00:12:42

And these are particularly people who you often work with and help too.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:12:47

That's absolutely true.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:12:49

And it's a wonderful working with these kinds of folks.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:12:54

Because in a way they emancipated me from being someone who had

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:13:00

a very good career in high-end retail in my Chicago days, which is

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:13:07

where I began all of this journey.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:13:09

And I was always pretty geeky myself and working with fellow

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:13:15

geeks really helped me to geek out.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:13:20

Lots of times people are really interested in the bottom line result, geeks are not

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:13:27

necessarily any different about that, but they're so interested in the process.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:13:33

And so even when I'm, you know, close to or about to onboard new clients, they

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:13:40

always want to know how does this work?

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:13:43

It's like they want a little pre work proof that the process is solid.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:13:49

And that even if the process is that I will do a lot of this work for you

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:13:55

and I will hold your hand and I will make it feel safe and comfortable

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:13:58

for you to evolve your look, they all want to know about the process.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:14:04

And I'm very much about the process as an experience, as a journey to take that

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:14:11

it can be Presto Changeux.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:14:15

But also people want to be able to go through what that experience is like.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:14:19

And I like to be able to work at the pace of my client, not at the

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:14:23

speed of light that I can work at because I'm in my zone of genius.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:14:27

Right.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:14:27

So it's pretty cool working with folks like that, who you think also with geeks,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:14:33

especially in the technology sector, that their brains are also functioning

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:14:39

at a very high and fast level because they're also in their zone of genius.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:14:43

So it's interesting to see them fall back away from that because when they

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:14:49

come to me for help and guidance, it is because they are not so strong

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:14:55

in this area, but I can teach them how, and then they loved that part.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:15:00

In the end, the point I want to make about this Johnny is that it's one thing to buy

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:15:06

a wardrobe of clothes, but it's another to own the look because when you buy the

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:15:12

clothes and they hang in the closet, you go to put them on knowing how to put them

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:15:18

together, how to put pieces of clothes together to make an outfit, and then to

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:15:23

be able to walk out of your house and to go to a meeting or to sit down on a

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:15:27

zoom call or you know, whatever being able to do that with ease and confidence

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:15:33

is what every human being deserves.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:15:36

And most people really do dream of that.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:15:39

It's a real deep desire.

Johnny: 00:15:41

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:15:42

It's to say it can be a very transformational experience, not just

Johnny: 00:15:47

in how people live, but of course it can definitely affect how people feel,

Johnny: 00:15:51

their own confidence and probably more things besides, and I wonder what you

Johnny: 00:15:57

mainly notice in the transformation that you tend to see with your clients?

Johnny: 00:16:01

Do you see there?

Johnny: 00:16:02

It's not just having a look too, but what you really see as being

Johnny: 00:16:05

the main difference that they experience working with you?

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:16:09

I find that people have more gravitas overall, which is

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:16:14

one of my favorite things to talk about.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:16:18

Which really means that when they show up for other people and even for themselves,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:16:24

that they take themselves seriously in the moment, even when the moment is

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:16:29

about having fun is about socializing is about going out on dates going out

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:16:35

with a spouse on a date night out.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:16:37

All of that is about really having respect for the moment, which

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:16:42

I think is an extension of what gravitas is really all about.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:16:46

But I also think is very important through all of this

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:16:49

is that this is an environment.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:16:52

What we each wear is an environment.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:16:55

And if all the thinking that we do and all the creating that we do emanates

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:17:01

from within the container of the body, I think that fashioning the container

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:17:08

of the body with amazing looking style

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:17:14

helps a person to show up for all of these moments and they

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:17:18

get more out of life as a result.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:17:22

So I have worked with executives who were in the C-suite, who wanted

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:17:29

to elevate up and up and up and up.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:17:33

And while doing that, we're also interested in developing their leadership

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:17:39

profile, in building the company

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:17:41

and making more money for the company and, you know, serving the stockholders

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:17:46

and the employees and all of that.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:17:48

And certainly of course, about self-enrichment.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:17:52

So I've seen that happen.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:17:54

I've seen people go from being single and not feeling good about going

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:17:59

out on dates to becoming engaged and getting married to people who they

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:18:07

Didn't even know before they started working with me and to in short order

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:18:11

felt transformed and confident enough to be able to make those approaches.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:18:16

I've have several clients who've gotten married under my watch.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:18:20

And one even asked me to officiate their wedding.

Johnny: 00:18:23

Oh, wow.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:18:24

There are a lot of, you know, I've seen a lot of different

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:18:28

things over, over all the years of my work, and I've certainly helped people

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:18:33

who felt like they should lose weight, but really needed to earn a living,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:18:38

not wait to lose the weight before they were ready to absolutely go after

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:18:44

what they really wanted to do and what they needed was confidence in

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:18:49

themselves, and a way of being able to look at themselves in a way where they

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:18:54

felt self-contained where they felt

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:18:58

self-controlled and how that could turn around for other people and say, yeah,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:19:03

I really want to do business with you.

Johnny: 00:19:06

That's fantastic.

Johnny: 00:19:07

I mean, you really are helping people to dress for success in a very real way.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:19:13

It is not just a by the book statement and I've taken that

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:19:17

idea a little bit further to tell my clients dress for the life you want.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:19:23

Not for the life you have, because.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:19:26

In today's day and age, most of us are working wonky, crazy hours.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:19:32

Our work life and our personal life becomes so intermixed or socializing with

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:19:38

people that we associate in business.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:19:41

And yet we also, and we hopefully are doing these things

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:19:44

because it's all enjoyable.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:19:46

It's not transactional.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:19:49

It's about creating relationships with people.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:19:52

And sometimes I have even found quite frankly, that some of the most

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:19:56

transactional people I know get into having better relationships and it

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:20:02

creates greater balance in life because the relationship creates the transaction.

Johnny: 00:20:08

To me, it makes a lot of sense in a lot of the work that I've done over

Johnny: 00:20:11

years of coaching and training, that the journeys of personal transformation

Johnny: 00:20:17

that I've worked on with clients over that time, a lot of it's about

Johnny: 00:20:22

stepping into who they really want to become, not waiting until this is

Johnny: 00:20:26

there or that's there, but being there.

Johnny: 00:20:28

And you've alluded to that already, that you are helping people dress for that.

Johnny: 00:20:32

And I think that is a big part of it because looking the part is is a big deal.

Johnny: 00:20:37

It's important to us.

Johnny: 00:20:38

We are generally very visual people.

Johnny: 00:20:40

If you look that and you feel that in yourself, then that is pushing you really

Johnny: 00:20:45

to elevate yourself to step your game up and to show up as that kind of person

Johnny: 00:20:51

who you already want to be to actually be that, not like faking it, but actually

Johnny: 00:20:57

elevating yourself to live up to that.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:21:00

Yes, of course.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:21:01

And think about this.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:21:02

Some things that I'm working on now are I'm working with trial teams to

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:21:08

help them tip the scale at trial, in their favor ethically by helping

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:21:14

people show up to address a jury in a courtroom, a judge in a courtroom.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:21:22

It could be for a hearing that happens before trial could be for

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:21:26

a deposition even before trial.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:21:29

Some kind of potential settlement negotiation before trial.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:21:33

And then if things do get to trial and they are in front of

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:21:36

the jury, All things being equal.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:21:39

If you've got, a set of hot shot lawyers on one side and a set of

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:21:43

hot shot lawyers on another side.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:21:45

Hot shot meaning they're a high profile, very smart well-educated

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:21:52

top of their game, who is showing up and basically looking more relatable

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:21:59

to the story that they need to tell

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:22:01

at the time of whatever these meetings or encounters are either outside or

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:22:06

inside of a courtroom, we're always so even for the non-lawyers, well, all

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:22:14

of us are, you know, telling stories.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:22:16

The stakes are super high in the case of these corporate trials

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:22:21

that I get involved in now.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:22:23

And I want people to be able to tell

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:22:26

the best story that they can, because it's absolutely part of how they

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:22:31

best prosecute the case or defend themselves against an accusation that

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:22:37

they feel they can prove otherwise.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:22:40

So all of us are in the position of not necessarily prosecuting

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:22:46

or defending ourselves.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:22:47

Okay.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:22:48

Even when we want to support another human being, to be able to show

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:22:53

up and be supportive of a person, requires a certain kind of a look.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:22:58

As a leader, to be able to demonstrate a certain kind of confidence in the

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:23:03

team or in one's own self, as the leader pay attention, to me requires a certain

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:23:10

kind of a look someone who is running some other kind of an organization,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:23:16

maybe a service organization needs to show up yet a different kind of

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:23:20

way, all different scenarios require

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:23:24

that we be true and genuine, authentic to ourselves, whatever word you like.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:23:30

And that's a little series of ideas.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:23:33

And yet you can't be you and ignore the audience or your

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:23:39

purpose for being in front of them.

Johnny: 00:23:41

Right.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:23:42

All of that comes into play.

Johnny: 00:23:45

You mentioned one of my favorite words earlier, which is gravitas.

Johnny: 00:23:49

And I can certainly understand how you look has an impact on your gravitas

Johnny: 00:23:54

on people taking you seriously on being able to command the room

Johnny: 00:23:58

and command respect from people.

Johnny: 00:24:01

How do you start that journey with somebody or maybe they

Johnny: 00:24:05

feel like they don't have that.

Johnny: 00:24:07

They may be identifying as geeky and nerdy and not feeling that they have the

Johnny: 00:24:12

respect to people that people just look at them and maybe think like, you're just

Johnny: 00:24:16

a, you're just a nerd, you're just a geek, how do you start that journey with them?

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:24:21

Well, as I mentioned by doing my profile sessions

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:24:26

around color and style, I get to learn a lot about a person because

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:24:31

they're teaching me one part of it.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:24:35

I'm really doing a lot of the studying because most people

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:24:39

have trouble with color.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:24:40

If I ask a series of people to tell me what color eyes they have, oftentimes

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:24:47

most of the people in that sample grouping will be incorrect.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:24:52

So I use what I see with my vision to know somebody from that level, but when

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:25:01

it comes to personality, I don't want to judge or even evaluate with my own eyes.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:25:08

What I observe about somebody, because not only may I be wrong.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:25:14

the way that that person presents themselves to me and the way

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:25:18

they are, therefore presenting themselves to the world, writ large

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:25:23

may very well be incorrect because they don't know any better yet.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:25:28

So when I study a person and they teach me who they say they are and who

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:25:34

they want to be, we're on the honor system, the honor that they are teaching

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:25:40

me what they know about themselves.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:25:43

Without any interference as best they can.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:25:48

And then for me to honor what they tell me about themselves.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:25:52

And so when I learn that and I'm listening to someone, I hear their

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:25:58

voice, I listen to their vocabulary.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:26:02

I have a deeper sense of understanding of who a person is.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:26:07

When I then go out and say, okay, here is a set of clothing, that is

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:26:14

for the purpose that you engage me.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:26:17

Whether it's a trial or someone is elevating positions or are going out

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:26:22

on dates or whatever the situation is, I then want them to try things on and

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:26:30

tell me how they are embodying the look.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:26:35

And I have with this process, a very precise way of selecting almost well, it's

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:26:43

over 95% accurate what people should have on their bodies that help them communicate

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:26:50

to themselves and to other people.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:26:53

And I think in the end that communicates gravitas to that

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:27:00

to the, where to my client.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:27:03

And it also really helps the people around them see that they put

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:27:09

intentionality in that they put some kind of effort in to how they're showing up.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:27:15

So when they're thinking about how they want to portray themselves, And

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:27:20

they're even thinking, well, what is this conversation going to be like,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:27:24

what is this meeting going to be like, what would I like to put into it?

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:27:28

What would I like to get out of it?

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:27:30

So it's a win-win for that person, and the others involved that to

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:27:35

me, shows a sense of deference that shows a sense of respect.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:27:40

And it shows a sense of, again, that intentionality puts people, the person,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:27:47

the individual that I'm working with in the position of really thinking in

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:27:51

terms of outcomes and that speaks to what gravitas really is overall makes a

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:27:59

person feel good about what they're doing.

Johnny: 00:28:46

you're an expert in what you do and you've been doing it for some time.

Johnny: 00:28:51

Do you find that you have some natural intuition towards this, or do you try and

Johnny: 00:28:57

suppress that and go through this process so that you don't perhaps bias your ideas

Johnny: 00:29:03

into the, into what they really want?

Johnny: 00:29:05

That.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:29:06

Yeah I don't like to bias myself.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:29:10

In fact, there's a reason why I do my color profile before I do the style

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:29:15

profile, because the style profile could bias my eyes if I realize, oh,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:29:23

they belong to, you know, this look or this look or this look, which I

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:29:29

know has to do with a certain range or ranges of different kinds of color.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:29:34

I start out organically and let that happen and then let them do

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:29:40

the next part second and everything always reconciles beautifully.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:29:45

I've never had something that was discordant.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:29:48

And that speaks to your topic around bias or your question around bias

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:29:53

because I really don't want to prejudge anybody, even though I have

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:29:59

absolutely in natural intuition that after over 30 years of working with

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:30:06

folks on their personal style and image and dressing them means that I would

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:30:11

be foolish to think that I know at all.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:30:14

I only know that the more I keep working, the more I keep learning.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:30:19

I let my clients be the teacher often.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:30:22

And I get to be the humble student who studies them because there's only one

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:30:27

them, there's only one that person.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:30:30

And I want to really Revere and respect their individuality so that I

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:30:36

can help them properly strategize the way they should visually communicate.

Johnny: 00:30:41

But that certainly makes for a very unique experience.

Johnny: 00:30:45

Then each time that you work with somebody with really nothing being

Johnny: 00:30:48

prescriptive is like, they are guiding you to where you go with them.

Johnny: 00:30:53

And so what kind of recommendations that you have for them?

Johnny: 00:30:56

So I definitely like the sound of that.

Johnny: 00:31:00

I do wonder there are, are there some particular style points in

Johnny: 00:31:05

your mind that do reflect back gravitas that we talked about?

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:31:10

if a person should show up wearing tailored clothing,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:31:14

like a suit or a sport coat, even knowing whether a sport coat for a

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:31:20

guy and a pair of slacks is the right look versus a suit that matters.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:31:26

The shape of the lapel could even matter, but that's based on a person's

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:31:31

personality to my way of seeing it.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:31:34

For ladies,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:31:35

I . Think if a woman feels really good in a dress and yet maybe she is also in

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:31:43

what is still considered, unfortunately, somewhat a man's world or a man's role.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:31:50

I wouldn't necessarily want her to show up, trying to look

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:31:53

like a dude in the suiting.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:31:56

If what really suits her best is a dress.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:32:01

Sometimes the level of formality has to switch to meet one's own needs, right?

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:32:09

Because every one of us has to have our needs met.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:32:12

And we have to be able to show up in this right way for the role

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:32:19

that we're playing at that time.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:32:21

I hope that that's a good answer.

Johnny: 00:32:24

Yeah, I think so.

Johnny: 00:32:25

I was just thinking that I used to be cabin crew for an airline and most

Johnny: 00:32:29

of the time that I was cabin crew, I would work in the first class cabin.

Johnny: 00:32:33

And you would often see particular.

Johnny: 00:32:35

Particular ways of dressing and also some in particular ways that people

Johnny: 00:32:39

would hold themselves, you would nearly always get in that sense.

Johnny: 00:32:42

I mean, obviously with celebrities, you already know who they are, but that

Johnny: 00:32:45

you would nearly always get that sense.

Johnny: 00:32:47

And you would know straight away if somebody was in first class,

Johnny: 00:32:50

he wasn't used to being there.

Johnny: 00:32:51

And, and those sorts of things, you would, you would see that.

Johnny: 00:32:54

So you do pick up on those things, but I do think we are very

Johnny: 00:33:00

visual people.

Johnny: 00:33:00

And we do tend to make judgements very quickly on people based on how

Johnny: 00:33:05

they look and what we interpret, what perhaps are the, if we don't, if

Johnny: 00:33:10

we're a bit clueless on this, like, I consider myself to be completely

Johnny: 00:33:12

clueless on fashion, but I'm also not particularly in, into this as well.

Johnny: 00:33:16

It's not something I've spent that much time on.

Johnny: 00:33:19

I just try to pick stuff up that I like.

Johnny: 00:33:21

But if I were wanting to increase my own level of gravitas or for

Johnny: 00:33:26

anyone who may be listening to this.

Johnny: 00:33:28

Well, where could I start?

Johnny: 00:33:30

That would help me to turn things up to a high level.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:33:35

If you could do nothing more than take the true

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:33:40

body coloring that you have on your head, your hair, your eye color.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:33:47

And if you have multi-tone hair, like you have it in your beard as do I by the way.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:33:53

And even if you can tell that your eyes might be able to twist in

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:33:59

color a little bit, some people with blue eyes can actually

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:34:04

pivot them into something a little bit green.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:34:07

When you hold up something turquoise or something in that neighborhood

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:34:12

of color can also manipulate the eye to become a little bit greener.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:34:16

If you do a little bit of testing around like that, and you repeat those exact

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:34:22

types of colors on your physical body,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:34:26

you're automatically creating a kind of elegance even without having

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:34:32

to put on formal looking clothes.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:34:36

The other thing I would say is that if you really want to look a little bit more

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:34:40

polished avoid wearing so much pattern and go into things that are more solid.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:34:46

And if you want to look a little bit softer while you

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:34:49

do that, choose one accessory.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:34:53

Try to keep things to a minimum where you create a focal point where the

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:35:00

objective is that the focal point really comes back up to your face.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:35:06

All of this creates a kind of visual balance that onlookers are striving for.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:35:13

And that kind of visual balance creates a look of attraction.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:35:18

And I don't mean hot,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:35:20

sexy attraction it's that there can be this sense of stylish attraction that

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:35:29

creates curiosity in the onlooker if in the onlookers eyes, so that when

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:35:35

they are gazing upon you, they're kind of interested and curious about you.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:35:41

And you showing up using your own physical likeness to create a pallet of color,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:35:50

if you will can help you to show up in a way that is natural to who you are and

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:35:56

that people are already tapping into.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:35:59

I have to say it like this.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:36:01

Johnny people have a sense of feeling about us based on the way we look, call

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:36:10

it a judgment in evaluation, any of that.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:36:15

People have a feeling that flows through us faster than the fluency

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:36:23

that we might have to understand it.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:36:26

So we are all living in society.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:36:30

We are all creatures of learning about things like color psychology, but most

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:36:37

of us don't have the fluent language that I have to be able to describe

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:36:44

what a person is sensing what a person is feeling when they see color.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:36:50

What I'm saying is that when you put on in your case, maybe a gray,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:36:57

because you've got gray in your hair, you've got gray in your beard.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:37:02

You're showing up to somebody as someone who is a quiet listener,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:37:10

that wants to like absorb and learn and you are kind of that way.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:37:16

And so what I'm saying is people who know you well already know that about you.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:37:24

And so you're really branding your apparel, your style

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:37:30

to who you actually are.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:37:32

There's nothing discordant there.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:37:36

And then what that does is it creates more believability it reverberates

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:37:42

into the people that you're hanging out with and they might have to get at

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:37:47

you a little bit to say, Hey, can can you add something to this conversation?

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:37:52

And that's a really wonderful way for people to recognize you, but they

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:37:58

don't necessarily know with fluency of language, why that's happening.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:38:04

They have a feeling that's faster than that fluency, and that is how

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:38:09

color and style play roles in our lives that are like super important.

Johnny: 00:38:16

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:38:17

Now I know you can't really discuss who your clients are that you work with.

Johnny: 00:38:22

Probably for obvious reasons.

Johnny: 00:38:23

They may not appreciate it, but.

Johnny: 00:38:25

I wonder from you, if we can get maybe a sense of some of the people

Johnny: 00:38:29

who are maybe in public life, who you see getting it right.

Johnny: 00:38:32

May have male and female alike in terms of their style and

Johnny: 00:38:36

their, the gravitas with that.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:38:39

As a female example, I think Christine Lagarde does an

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:38:43

incredibly great job with her style.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:38:47

And I think that she shows up with pitch perfect gravitas in her role.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:38:54

I have great respect for how she shows up and how she shows not

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:39:01

just great impeccable style, but a kind of deference for other global

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:39:07

leaders with whom she meets and for citizens of the European union who,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:39:13

her work impacts on a daily basis.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:39:17

And so I think that she does very well.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:39:19

I think that Jeff Bezos also shows up very well from a male's perspective.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:39:25

He's worked a lot on his body over the years.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:39:30

He's definitely buffed up and seems to me he really fancies a lot of Brunello

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:39:36

Cucinelli although not exclusively.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:39:40

And I think that the clothes really suit him very well.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:39:43

I think.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:39:44

He's morphed beyond being kind of a retail tech guy because now with Amazon

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:39:51

studios and things of this nature and Amazon going to space and all these

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:39:57

ventures of his he really has developed a look that looks modern and doesn't look

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:40:03

like the sales guy from Seattle anymore.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:40:06

And I think that it also even supersedes his abundant wealth.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:40:11

There is a look about him that makes him look nimble because of

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:40:16

how well-fitted his clothing is.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:40:19

You could almost look at him in a suit and think, wow, he could

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:40:23

practically go running in that thing.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:40:25

And I think that's really true for who he is just looking at

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:40:29

him from the outside, looking in, he appears to have that kind of,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:40:35

that kind of quickness in all ways and the way that he shows up enhances that.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:40:41

Now of course, there are also people who look at all of that and

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:40:45

probably see that and think, well, you know, that's not so great.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:40:49

I think that those are just some of the naysayers who just

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:40:52

don't like him or whatever.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:40:55

So there's always, I say, when you have haters, which when you're at that level

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:41:00

of wealth or that level of infamy you're on, but people are paying attention.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:41:06

That's the thing.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:41:06

And I think that if, when you're in control of the message, which he is,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:41:11

which Christine Legarde is, we're all in control of the messages that we deliver.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:41:17

I think both of them really get the message right.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:41:20

And they deliver.

Johnny: 00:41:21

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:41:22

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:41:23

I think it's probably a good thing that the people are going

Johnny: 00:41:26

to support and like what these people do and people who aren't.

Johnny: 00:41:31

Suggest that they're not trying to please everybody and that they know

Johnny: 00:41:34

themselves well enough as well to know what they want and that the supporters

Johnny: 00:41:38

of welcome along and detractors as well,

Johnny: 00:41:40

it's just part of life.

Johnny: 00:41:41

I wonder, I don't want to, it would be unfair to ask if there are examples of

Johnny: 00:41:45

people getting wrong, but I do wonder if there are some particular style faux

Johnny: 00:41:50

pas that you see quite commonly that you think would be better to be avoided?

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:41:57

Well, I think, generally speaking, and this is a

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:42:01

little bit more of a mind thing than necessarily hard visual examples.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:42:07

I do think that there is an issue around people showing up

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:42:11

as the lowest common denominator.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:42:15

Say you're a person who got a ticket and needed to go to court to the

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:42:23

ticket and you show up with respect for the court and get dressed up

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:42:28

nicely, whatever that is for you.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:42:32

And then you're there and you see a whole bunch of other people who are

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:42:38

showing up who are wearing jeans that are like exposing their tush with their

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:42:44

underwear exposed and, people who are just showing up looking disrespectful.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:42:51

I've been hearing for people who have been telling me about their situations

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:42:55

like this, where they say, gosh, I almost really feel like I overdressed and I have

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:43:01

to say in response, why would you let the lowest common denominator drag you down?

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:43:09

You should really raise the standard by being exactly who

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:43:13

you are and how you showed up.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:43:15

Why are we having a moment in society where we're looking at things as though

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:43:21

we should tone down and as a result of an example like that, I think that people

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:43:27

show up looking too laid back too casual.

Johnny: 00:43:33

Yeah.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:43:33

know, my idea of casual as a definition is that you're

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:43:37

leaving something to chance when the stakes are high in your life,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:43:43

do you really want to leave things to chance?

Johnny: 00:43:46

Not specifically.

Johnny: 00:43:47

No.

Johnny: 00:43:49

Yeah.

Johnny: 00:43:49

So out of my own curiosity, someone that comes in and wants to work with you and

Johnny: 00:43:55

you have a avatar, I suppose of people who you'd like to work with particularly.

Johnny: 00:44:01

How long does that process generally go on for?

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:44:06

Well, the engagement can go pretty quickly.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:44:09

In a matter of hours, I can get to know all the things that I need to know.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:44:15

In order to go out and then build a wardrobe, which then

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:44:19

takes me the time it takes me.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:44:21

And then it takes time to present the client where it's a

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:44:27

lesson on here's what's for you,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:44:31

and here's why.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:44:32

Try it on.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:44:33

Let's discuss, make some decisions and then let's go in for alterations and.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:44:40

You know, Presto chango.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:44:41

So now you have your stuff and I photograph all the outfit combinations

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:44:46

and that way on someone's iPhone, for example, we just have something to share

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:44:53

between that client and me private album, where it's like I'm in their pocket when

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:45:00

they don't know what to wear, all they have to do is go to their phone and say,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:45:05

okay, this is how I assemble an outfit.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:45:07

And when something comes up where they say, I need to be particularly extra

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:45:12

intentional today, not only do I have great ensembles that I can put together

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:45:17

now, but when I'm going to be in this situation and meeting with this person,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:45:22

and this is what I want to say, and this is what I want to have as the outcome

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:45:26

of the day, knowing Joseph, what I have, what would you tell me to wear?

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:45:30

And I would say, okay, client, this is what you should put on.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:45:35

And it works.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:45:36

So a lot of this can go pretty quickly in terms of an initial engagement.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:45:42

And then what's lovely is that I have clients that have

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:45:44

worked with me for years.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:45:47

And that's because they really appreciate the relationship and

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:45:52

they know that someone is there as their trusted advisor to help

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:45:55

make sure that they do things well.

Johnny: 00:45:59

Yeah, and that's pretty important.

Johnny: 00:46:01

I feel I've learned a lot from you here.

Johnny: 00:46:03

And I know that we have to start moving towards wrapping things

Johnny: 00:46:07

up, but it's.

Johnny: 00:46:09

Honestly fascinating.

Johnny: 00:46:10

And I'm so happy that we've got to have this conversation and I'm also sure.

Johnny: 00:46:13

I'll probably think of a thousand more questions that I wish I'd

Johnny: 00:46:16

asked after we finished speaking.

Johnny: 00:46:18

But with everything that we learned today this show being all about

Johnny: 00:46:20

influence and persuasion, I have to ask you for you, what is your own

Johnny: 00:46:24

greatest strength around influence and persuasion that if you had a superpower

Johnny: 00:46:27

around influence and persuasion, what would you describe that as being?

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:46:30

Empathy.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:46:32

I want to be able to put myself in someone else's shoes.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:46:37

And so I want to stop and listen.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:46:41

And learn and feel and be with another person on their journey and understand

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:46:49

what it is that they're coming from and where they want to go to.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:46:54

And I love being that support person who stays discretely in the

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:47:00

background, advising and guiding, and sometimes mentoring my clients

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:47:07

and helping them see how they can be

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:47:09

the greatest sense of self for themselves.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:47:13

And those around them makes me so happy.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:47:16

And it all happens from empathy.

Johnny: 00:47:19

Well, given the way you described your process of working

Johnny: 00:47:21

with people, that makes perfect sense.

Johnny: 00:47:24

Let me ask you this.

Johnny: 00:47:25

Then I always ask my guests for a book recommendation.

Johnny: 00:47:27

I know I forewarned for this as well.

Johnny: 00:47:30

You can give more than one if you would like to, but if you

Johnny: 00:47:33

were going to recommend the book, it could be to do with looks,

Johnny: 00:47:36

it could be to do with influence, it could really be anything that you think

Johnny: 00:47:39

would be impactful for people, maybe something that you've really liked.

Johnny: 00:47:42

What would be your recommendation?

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:47:44

Well, a book that I'm reading right now is called The Big Leap.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:47:48

And I think it's very powerful.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:47:51

What I'm reading no matter how many things I've read, I continue

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:47:55

to delve further into things.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:47:58

And I think a lot of people have already read that book and I feel

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:48:01

like I'm later to coming to it.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:48:03

If you've read it, it be great to reread.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:48:06

I think it would be one of those books I would reread

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:48:09

after I've completed reading it.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:48:10

Now another book that I really love is about StrengthsFinder.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:48:15

And there's actually a a self-evaluation that you can take.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:48:20

That's part of the whole thing that Gallup the polling company operates.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:48:24

And I love it because,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:48:26

despite the fact that I'm an image consultant and personal stylist in order

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:48:31

to really style someone for their brand, it's really important to understand

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:48:37

what your brand strengths really are.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:48:40

And so to be able to learn, not necessarily from people around

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:48:46

you, which your reputation creates your brand, but to know what

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:48:52

you see in yourself are your own brand strengths is a beginning point

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:48:58

and a very important, crucial point.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:49:00

Not even just a beginning point, it's like a center point of understanding

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:49:06

who you are so that you can telegraph that information out to other people,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:49:11

so that they're getting that right.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:49:13

So you can't have

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:49:17

style without the substance.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:49:19

And I think that that is a substantive piece of work StrengthsFinder.

Johnny: 00:49:24

I went and took that test.

Johnny: 00:49:26

After the last time we spoke a few months back and I find it

Johnny: 00:49:29

very useful, very insightful.

Johnny: 00:49:30

In fact, even after this conversation, I feel like we need to go and

Johnny: 00:49:33

revisit my results from that, just to remind myself of what came up.

Johnny: 00:49:37

But yeah, I think it was a great recommendation.

Johnny: 00:49:39

I appreciate that.

Johnny: 00:49:41

If anyone who's tuning in things, they would like to learn more about you maybe

Johnny: 00:49:44

even come and work with you, what would be the best way for them to find out more?

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:49:50

Well, I would encourage you to check out my website,

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:49:53

which is Joseph rosenfeld.com.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:49:56

Connect with me on LinkedIn.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:49:58

I'm also, find-able there as well.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:50:00

On my website, I have a number of complimentary reports that

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:50:05

are available for download.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:50:08

And I'm also available to have complimentary 30 minute consultation

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:50:13

conversation, no obligation.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:50:16

I just like to learn about what people are doing with themselves and what makes them

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:50:21

interested in developing their personal style and seeing if we're a right fit?

Johnny: 00:50:27

Excellent.

Johnny: 00:50:27

All of the links to connect review and for the books you've mentioned as well, that

Johnny: 00:50:31

would all be in the show notes for anyone who would like to go and check those out.

Johnny: 00:50:35

I will be taking a good look around myself as we do wrap things up.

Johnny: 00:50:39

Let me ask you, I mean, there's a lot of value in this particular episode.

Johnny: 00:50:43

I think a lot of things that I will be going back and revisiting

Johnny: 00:50:45

and making notes on because you shared some really great insights.

Johnny: 00:50:48

If there was just one thing above everything else that you heart people will

Johnny: 00:50:51

take away from our conversation today.

Johnny: 00:50:54

What do you hope that would be?

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:50:56

I would like for you to know that style is not a surface

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:50:59

game, that you can transform yourself by addressing the way you look.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:51:08

And so that people will get to know more about who you are from the inside out.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:51:14

I literally saved my life on this premise as a teenager, and by

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:51:20

discovering the power of personal style.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:51:24

And for me, it's like breathing because it's what I do.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:51:27

And it gave me a second chance at life.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:51:31

But I also know that for you, personal style has its own power to help other

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:51:38

people get the best out of you and for you to give others your best.

Johnny: 00:51:44

Absolutely.

Johnny: 00:51:45

That's a great message to finish on Joseph Rosenfeld, I really appreciate

Johnny: 00:51:48

everything you shared with us today.

Johnny: 00:51:49

It's been a wonderful conversation.

Johnny: 00:51:51

Thank you so much for coming and being a guest on Speaking Influence.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:51:54

Thank you for having me.

Joseph Rosenfeld: 00:51:55

It's my honor.

Johnny: 00:51:57

What can I tell you?

Johnny: 00:51:58

I knew that was going to be a good show.

Johnny: 00:52:00

I hope you enjoyed it as well.

Johnny: 00:52:02

It was very interesting and exciting to be exploring style as it relates

Johnny: 00:52:07

to influence and persuasion.

Johnny: 00:52:09

And I hope that you have taken away some useful learning and ideas from

Johnny: 00:52:15

this conversation, as much as I have certainly taken away some new

Johnny: 00:52:20

knowledge and information, and I will be considering my own personal

Johnny: 00:52:24

style in some new and different ways.

Johnny: 00:52:29

Do remember to go and check out Joseph's website, if you would like to know

Johnny: 00:52:32

more and actually have a consultation with him about your own personal style.

Johnny: 00:52:38

And of course do check out our sponsors Brand Face as they are currently

Johnny: 00:52:43

offering a special promotion to give you a branding score, to help you

Johnny: 00:52:47

figure out if your brand is being seen and received in the right way,

Johnny: 00:52:52

by your ideal customer.

Johnny: 00:52:54

Well worth taking them up on that opportunity.

Johnny: 00:52:56

I have a video on my YouTube site all about how that process works.

Johnny: 00:53:00

It's very, very easy.

Johnny: 00:53:02

And of course you can go and visit brand face score.com and

Johnny: 00:53:07

find out your brand score today.

Johnny: 00:53:11

Coming up on the show pretty soon.

Johnny: 00:53:13

Well, I'm excited to say that we are getting confirmation of

Johnny: 00:53:17

having Chris Ducker coming on the show soon at some point.

Johnny: 00:53:20

I have recently recorded an episode with Alex Sanfilippo

Johnny: 00:53:24

from Podmatch and Pod Pros.

Johnny: 00:53:27

And that was an amazing conversation, as well as some

Johnny: 00:53:30

other incredible guests coming up.

Johnny: 00:53:31

So do you make sure you are subscribed and tuned in for those?

Johnny: 00:53:35

We don't charge anything for this show.

Johnny: 00:53:37

And we only ask that if you've got some value from it, if you've enjoyed

Johnny: 00:53:40

the show and find it useful, please share it out with your network.

Johnny: 00:53:44

It`s what helps us to grow and keep growing.

Johnny: 00:53:46

And always, we welcome honest reviews.

Johnny: 00:53:49

If you would like to leave an honest review for the show, either on Apple

Johnny: 00:53:53

Podcasts on Spotify or on Pod Chaser, then I will read out your review on the show.

Johnny: 00:53:59

You will get a shout-out on the show.

Johnny: 00:54:01

Good or bad.

Johnny: 00:54:02

I will read out your reviews.

Johnny: 00:54:04

And unless they're offensive, of course, in which case I'll keep them to myself.

Johnny: 00:54:08

But I would love to hear what your opinions are on the show.

Johnny: 00:54:12

And of course, if you would like to be a guest or you have some ideas about

Johnny: 00:54:15

who would be a great guest for the show,

Johnny: 00:54:17

Please get in touch with me.

Johnny: 00:54:20

Contact me on Twitter @Johnaball.

Johnny: 00:54:23

Or contact me on LinkedIn, John Alexander Ball on LinkedIn, or look

Johnny: 00:54:27

for my company, Present Influence.

Johnny: 00:54:30

Wherever you're going wherever you are doing.

Johnny: 00:54:32

Have an amazing rest of your day.

Johnny: 00:54:34

Thanks for taking some time with us.