Episode 232

The 3 Rules of Communication Every Leader Needs | Lucille Ossai

Leaders don’t fail because they lack ideas — they fail because they can’t communicate them.

In this episode, I sit down with Lucille Ossai, award-winning communications trainer and author of Influence and Thrive. From Lagos Business School to global boardrooms, Lucille has helped leaders transform how they connect, persuade, and inspire.

We unpack her 3 rules of effective communication and why mastering writing is often the fastest way to expand your influence.

🔑 In this conversation:

  • How Lucille stumbled into communication after starting as a stay-at-home mum
  • The surprising power of writing in an AI-driven world
  • The 3 rules that instantly make you clearer and more credible
  • Why communication is the #1 skill that drives leadership impact

📖 Learn more about Lucille:

Book: Influence and Thrive → https://amzn.eu/d/5h8mZDO

Website: www.lucilleossai.com

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lucilleossaicommunicationspro

✨ If you’ve ever felt your voice isn’t being heard, this episode will give you the tools to change that.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction to Powerful Communication

00:14 Lucille Ossai's Journey to Communication Expertise

01:29 The Importance of Communication Skills

03:19 Benefits of Effective Communication

05:19 Implementing Effective Communication

09:09 Three Rules of Effective Communication

12:56 Influence Through Communication

15:50 Overcoming Communication Challenges

24:50 The Power of Writing in Communication

26:22 A Nervous Start and Building Skills

26:45 The Importance of Writing in Business

27:57 Reading to Improve Writing

29:10 Blogging as a Tool for Improvement

30:46 The Role of AI in Writing

37:50 Effective Leadership Communication

41:56 Optimism for Future Business Leaders

45:39 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Visit presentinfluence.com/quiz to take the Speaker Radiance Quiz and discover your Charisma Quotient.

For speaking enquiries or to connect with me, you can email john@presentinfluence.com or find me on LinkedIn

You can find all our clips, episodes and more on the Present Influence YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@PresentInfluence

Thanks for listening, and please give the show a 5* review if you enjoyed it.

Mentioned in this episode:

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Transcript
John:

What if the reason your ideas aren't landing isn't your

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content, but your communication?

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Today, I'm joined by Lucille Ossai,

a award-winning communication coach,

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Lagos Business School faculty and

author of Influence and Thrive.

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Lucille went from stay at home mom

to Global Authority on Influence.

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And in this episode, she reveals the

three rules of powerful communication.

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Why writing is your hidden leadership

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John (2): advantage , And how to be heard.

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Even if you are an introvert.

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If you've ever felt like your

work should speak for itself

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and yet you're still overlooked,

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this conversation will change the

way you show up, write, and speak.

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welcome Lucille Asai, welcome to the show.

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Lucille Ossai: Hello.

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Thank you very much for having me, John.

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John: It's a real delight and

when we spoke before it was hard

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to narrow down all the things.

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So many things I would love to talk

to you about, but we'll try and

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get to the most important things

anything else we have time for.

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We'll get to that as well.

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But I know that you've been shaping

young hearts and minds and helping

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to teach the skills of influence

and communication to young people.

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Why has that been so important?

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Lucille Ossai: really, really important

because I stumbled into the field

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quite by accident many years ago.

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I was a stay at home mom at the

time, and I all just used to

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wonder why things weren't right.

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I would watch the television,

I watch interviews, I would

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just see complaints online.

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I just, communication is not really

the way it was supposed to be.

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So I just started following trends.

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I started researching, and the more I went

deep into the communication angle, the

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more interested and intrigued I became.

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It just took off From there.

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I started a blogs and a blogging

researching, and I just grew

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extremely passionate about it.

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I became almost obsessed,

with effective communication.

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if I look back now, to the point

where I started onto this time, I've

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just realized that communication

is now critical to effectiveness.

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As a professional, as

a student, as a leader.

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it's one of those skills that is

increasingly getting more importance as

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time goes on, especially in the age of ai.

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With this fear of AI taking on jobs.

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one thing relevant to professionals,

executives, and leaders, regardless

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of their industry or their field.

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So it's just something that I

believe everybody can hone and

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I hope I get the opportunity.

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'cause just like you said, there's

just so much to talk about, but I

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hope I get the opportunity to share

tips tricks and practices that empower

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people to communicate more effectively

so they can go ahead and do all those

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great things and achieve great fits

in their careers or in the business.

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John: I wonder for you, what

difference has working on communication

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skills made for your own life?

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Lucille Ossai: incredible benefits.

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I'm an introvert by nature, and when I

say this in my training sessions or in

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class or in front of leaders, I hear

gasps and people are like, no way.

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I was like, yes, it's true.

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those who really know me, I'm an

introvert, but I realized that.

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Even for people who are a bit reserved

and on the quieter side, if you are

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able to use communication to advance

your ideas, share your knowledge and

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to just advocate for things that are

important to you, you would get noticed.

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it doesn't necessarily matter

if you do not know anybody if

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you don't have connections.

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And for me, that has been an

eyeopener, especially in Nigeria.

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John: Yeah.

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Lucille Ossai: And I'm not just in

Nigeria, but I referenced Nigeria

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'cause that's where I'm currently based,

who, you know, usually opens doors.

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But what I've found is that if you are

able to speak effectively, and more

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importantly, if you are able to write

convincingly, people take notice.

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I have been able to connect with

incredible people across the globe.

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People that I have considered beyond

my level, my social network, I've

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been able to reach out to them,

connected with many on LinkedIn.

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A couple of those people that I'm really

friendly with, even on social media, on

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LinkedIn, I have never met in person.

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over the years I've followed

the work, shared my insights,

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and broadened my network.

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that has been really important to

me and, it has helped me to position

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myself beyond the confines of my region.

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I'm able to get on, international

podcasts, and I've been given the

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opportunity to share my expertise

and techniques with a wider audience.

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It's helped me sharpen my visibility,

it's helped increase my knowledge

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and it's also helped me in my work

as a communications trainer and

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coach and facilitators so personally.

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It's been fantastic.

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John: I can certainly relate to

all of that having had very similar

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experiences myself let me ask you, we

talk about communication and having

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effective communication there are lots

of people who get these trainings or

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they'll buy a book but never really

do the implementation side of it.

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So they have a bit of a knowledge, but

they don't really put stuff into practice.

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What, in your mind, should

effective communication look and

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be like when it is implemented?

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Lucille Ossai: Okay.

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It should be clear.

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the goal of your communication should

be clear to the recipients or the

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audience, and you should be able to

inspire them to take some action.

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Usually when you communicate with

somebody, you want them to feel

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a certain way or do something.

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this could be ranging from things that

would benefit you or benefit a community.

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for business communication,

there's usually a goal for your

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communication, and that's what

separates business communication

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from other kind of communication.

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There's a goal, you are not just

communicating because you want to hear

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the sound of your voice, or see your name.

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in print, there's usually a purpose

for which you're communicating.

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that purpose has to be clear,

so the recipient or the audience

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should get the same understanding

that you meant to convey.

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technically it's called shared meaning.

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what you are communicating

should be the same as what the

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other person is perceiving.

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If there's a misalignment, then

you're not communicating effectively.

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this is a point because I've often gotten

questions like, oh, is it really my fault?

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I've sent an email.

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I was very specific.

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I was very clear, but the person did

not read the email It's not my fault.

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I wrote as clearly as I could have.

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communication is something

that should get you a result

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or bring you closer to a goal.

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John: So let me, ask you this though,

'cause communication can easily be

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misunderstood I ascribe to the principle

that the meaning of communication is

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what gets understood, not necessarily

what is meant to be conveyed.

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How could you perhaps pick up, or what

would you encourage people to look at,

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to pick up whether their communication is

being understood in the right way or not?

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Lucille Ossai: Okay, so is the

person acting in the expected way?

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For example, if you send me an email

and just say, I would appreciate this

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project being done by two Pierre.

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Thanks a lot.

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And best regards, And then you go, you

haven't given me any call to action.

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You're just mentioning

what you would like.

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So I could read it.

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I was like, Hmm, okay, I'm on track.

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I'm sure it's gonna be completed,

but I don't feel that I need

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to communicate that to you.

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So I might not even respond.

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I just think, oh, I'm working on it.

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I'm sure it's gonna be completed and,

and I'm working at it on my desk.

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Meanwhile, you are expecting some

sort of feedback from me to let you

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know that I'm on the right track.

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if you send the email, like, you

know, Lucille I really appreciate it.

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If you could send me an update on the

project by 4:00 PM then I will say that

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okay, he wants me to comment on it.

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he's not just asking how it's going.

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He wants me to comment on it.

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be specific because a lot of people

are inundated with information,

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sure that your emails are short.

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I cannot stress this enough.

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get to the point and make sure there's

short in shorter sentences with spaces

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in between so that there is no confusion.

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This is one of the ways that we could

make sure that our communication is clear.

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John: Yeah.

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And I particularly like that

advice because that's how I

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tend to do my emails anyway.

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Lucille Ossai: Oh yeah, I

know that's quite brief.

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John: It's my natural style Lucille,

I'm one of those people that has to go

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back and add in the niceties afterwards

because I tend to just be like straight

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down to it, here's what I want.

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Right.

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here's what I want you to do.

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All right.

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So, one of the things I'm getting

from that as well, clear, concise,

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short, let's have it as, crystal clear

as possible and be very clear about

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what we want the other person to do

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Lucille Ossai: Absolutely.

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put that all in a simple framework.

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Call it the three rules of

effective communication.

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the first rule is know your audience.

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that is the number one rule for

communication in general, because the

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way you communicate with me will probably

differ from the way you communicate

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with your peers people close to you,

or people from different regions.

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you touched on the niceties, so

there's the cultural norms you

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have to be aware of as well.

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sometimes there appears to be unexpected

and unintended tension, because cultural

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norms are not addressed or considered

in communication, in writing and in

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one-on-one, interpersonal communication.

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it's really important that we all take

a moment to know just a little bit

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more information who are audiences.

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So that's rule number one.

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Then rule number two, is in three parts.

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I say use the three beacons and I call

them beacons because they light the way.

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They the way your communication should go.

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So ask yourself, is my

communication simple?

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Can a 12-year-old understand it?

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It doesn't really matter what

the topic is, but can they

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grasp what I'm trying to say?

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Then we touched on the second beacon.

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Is it brief or concise?

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Does it get straight to the point?

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Essential in this age of distraction and

different, things vying for attention.

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And the third one is, is it clear?

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Now, clarity is often mistaken for

simplicity, but I added, an extra point.

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And that is for your communication to be

clear, there needs to be a call to action,

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basically what we just talked about.

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So what do you want the recipients

or the audience to know, to feel

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or to do, know, feel, do premise.

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Yeah.

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And if you are able to do that for

ensuring the three beacons are addressed

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in some way, your communications already.

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Above average.

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So that's rule number two.

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Then rule number three is feedback.

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This is critical.

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This is the difference between

somebody perceiving you as professional

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and trustworthy and somebody just

thinking that you know, you know what?

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This person is just someone

I do not want to deal with.

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And for your feedback to be effective, it

has to be timely and it has to be factual.

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And you see, I came up with these three

rules out of frustration basically.

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I just noticed over the years,

different issues kept on cropping up.

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And I've just said, wouldn't it be

nice to just pull all these things

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together and just come up with some

sort of framework, a simple framework.

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Everybody knows these elements, but just

put it in a nice package with a bow and

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just say, these are the three rules.

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Please just ensure you.

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Address these rules when

you're communicating.

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Rule number one, know your audience.

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Rule number two, keep your

communication simple, brief, and clear.

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rule number three, give feedback

and ask for feedback and show your

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feedback is timely and factual.

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If you're able to do these things,

you would automatically be seen

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as somebody who is credible,

professional, and somebody that

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people would want to collaborate with.

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John: I love that you're saying these

are all very, easy to apply things

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There's nothing particularly

complicated about what you're saying.

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I think we could all do this, and just

in doing these things, you are already

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going to have elevated your ability to

communicate above the average, which

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doesn't say a lot about average levels of

communication, unfortunately, but it does

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say, rising above that isn't so difficult.

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even just some of these things

will take you to more noticeable,

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more influential communication.

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More effective as well.

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Absolutely.

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I love that.

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And you lay that out really clearly, it's

a nice framework to work with as well.

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we'll have some show notes for

people to summarize some of

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this, to review it as well.

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But what does influence mean to you, and

why is it important for communication?

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Lucille Ossai: What I've noticed

about influence is that you

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don't need to be a big name.

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with all respect to the masters of

Influence, the Kini Kini and so on

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who have written and made it to be

a science PAC technique, I believe.

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And this is the beauty of improving

your communication skills, working

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on your communication skills.

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I believe that it is easy

for you to influence people.

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If you are able to communicate

persuasively and intentionally.

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And it doesn't really

matter if you have access.

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This is something I've learned as well.

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It doesn't matter if you have access

to the inner circles of big brands

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or big names, but if you communicate

consistently, people begin to take notice.

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And as time goes on, you

begin to hone those skills.

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So if you're speaking up in,

a team meeting, for example,

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and you are a bit introverted.

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I use this example all the time because

that's how I am you have a brilliant

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idea, but you think, oh, well I'm not

really an executive, I'm a new entrant

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or a low level staff But you are able

to, raise your hand and say what you

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consider important or give a suggestion

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And you stand up, project your voice and

say that, I have heard a lot of brilliant,

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brilliant recommendation, but I would

like us all to just consider one point,

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this is what I think will move it forward.

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You could be speaking for 30

seconds, but you've made your point.

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People would take notice.

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They begin to say, oh, you know,

who's that lady over there?

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where is he from?

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What department is in makes sense.

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It's just about knowing how to present

your ideas in a very clear, compelling

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manner that helps to create influence.

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Yeah.

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And the influence could start small.

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It could be like, invite that person

to a meeting, or, what are your ideas?

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Or do you mind giving a presentation

before you know it, you are called into

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those circles that you would otherwise

not have had access to, just by the

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strength of your communication skills.

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Because what you said, maybe somebody

else had the same idea but did not

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communicate it as effectively or

as persuasively as, and this is

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something that I really hope does.

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if you commit to it, the results

will actually shock you, and

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it can become really scary.

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So ask yourself, how far do I want to go?

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If you're ambitious I would

order those to be open to me,

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then that's going to happen.

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But if not, then you have to decide,

how much do I want to speak up?

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How many times do I

want to send that email?

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Your colleagues will begin to

ask your advice and send you

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information then your growth really

depends on how far you want to go.

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influence is you being able to

communicate your ideas in a way that

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will give you greater visibility,

will help you collaborate with others.

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We get you the desired results and

communication is one of those things

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you can use to increase your influence.

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John: Absolutely.

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This is bring up a few things in me and

one of them is that I'm aware and I've

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been guilty of this myself, but I've

certainly seen it in many people my dad

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is actually a prime example of this.

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Many people think that their work

should speak for itself rather

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than them speak for themselves.

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You get that?

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Generally it doesn't people think,

oh, they don't really speak up,

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they don't really hear from them.

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They just keep their head down.

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They're probably quite happy.

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maybe they don't care about wanting

leadership positions they're just

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doing lots and lots of work and

we'll leave them doing that whereas

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speaking up might actually make

a bigger impact as you suggest.

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my experience in business has been,

sometimes the people who speak up are

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speaking up for the sake of speaking up.

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And sometimes the people who speak

up do actually have something say,

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do you think we should just speak?

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You know that speaking up, no matter

what Or should we also be sure that

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we have something of value to say,

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Lucille Ossai: I think it's really

important you have something of value.

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Otherwise don't really say anything.

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I've coached people in the

past who have had that concern.

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You know, quieter females, the female

professionals and they're terrified.

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They had brilliant ideas,

but they were terrified.

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And I said, okay, here's the thing.

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You are ambitious.

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You want to be taken seriously.

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You want to go to the next

level, you have to speak up, or

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here's what I want you to do.

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Start small.

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That is a point.

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And I got this fantastic method

from, communications per Joel.

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Schwartzberg, who I'm connected

with on LinkedIn and who wrote this

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brilliant book, get to the point.

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just having a clear point and

knowing how to communicate that

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point in any section is immediately

going to make people take notice.

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So you can imagine just having a series

of points in a series of meetings, and

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from time to time just speak up and just

having the confidence even if your voice

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shakes, because your voice will shake

if you're not accustomed to speaking.

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And you could experience all

those, symptoms, dry mouth, racing

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heart and so on and so forth.

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But don't let those physiological

reactions get in the way

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of making a clear point.

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if you've been holding onto that

point and you're just waiting for the

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right time to give that point in a

meeting, and then somebody else says

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the exact thing you wanted to say.

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Don't panic.

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just don't repeat what you've just heard.

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You could put a new spin on it or

say, John had that breathing point I

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would just like to add something to

what he just said, or give an example

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of why John's point is important.

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if nothing else comes to mind, do a recap.

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at the end of the meeting, say,

John has said something, IL has

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said, why John has said that.

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can we all agree on the right way forward?

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when is our next meeting?

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do we all decide on emailing suggestions

at a certain time, just say something.

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So that's one way you can

train yourself to do it.

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if that is still daunting, or you

feel you're already a good speaker,

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but not as good a writer, now is the

time to hone your writing skills.

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start small, adhere to the rules of

effective communication I mentioned.

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So if I'm saying there are three things

I wanted to mention, and I mentioned

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one, and I mentioned two, and I can't

remember the third, the third thing

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is just to stress that the first

two things are important, and this

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leads me to the next point I want to

make about why we should continue.

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Most people wouldn't

mind you taking a pause.

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a pause of just a few seconds to

connect your thoughts, but it'll become

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really obvious if you start to stare

at the ceiling, I've seen this happen.

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people will be like,

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What was I about to say?

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Well, it all becomes obvious, but

if you take a pause and just said,

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:

and sometimes when I'm in a session.

359

:

I actually even invite the audience.

360

:

So I'm saying something and there's a

particular word, like, bear with me.

361

:

There's this word and I describe the word.

362

:

I get everybody involved, and

they're like, oh yeah, you mean that?

363

:

I'm like, that's the one.

364

:

And then we continue.

365

:

So I think people are really

gracious and they would understand

366

:

that these things happen.

367

:

But what you don't want is to go blank,

and then you don't know how to recover.

368

:

And then you are there standing

for two painful minutes trying to

369

:

remember the point you're about

to make and it doesn't come.

370

:

And that actually

diminishes your credibility.

371

:

So take a breather, pause, say the

next thing, and just try to make sure

372

:

that you link the next point with what

you've just said, even if it's not

373

:

the original point you wanted to say.

374

:

And this should practice.

375

:

John: Yeah.

376

:

I would add to that as well, but if

your communication hasn't gone well,

377

:

whether it is a question a meeting

or a presentation or anything like

378

:

that, there's still a win there.

379

:

The fact that you got up and did it,

the fact that you put yourself forward.

380

:

don't diminish the win that you had.

381

:

Maybe it wasn't great,

maybe you didn't get it.

382

:

We want things to go better than they do.

383

:

But you would be diminishing the win that

you had, that put yourself out there and

384

:

sometimes when we put ourselves out there,

we get shot down or it doesn't go well.

385

:

That's part Of the process

part of the learning journey.

386

:

You see it as that the next time you do

it, it will be better, but don't think

387

:

that because it didn't go well that

time that you shouldn't do it again.

388

:

I think that would be the worst

thing you could take away.

389

:

Right.

390

:

Lucille Ossai: And I have a really

important something just came to mind.

391

:

every year at the Lagos Business School,

we have an annual speaking competition.

392

:

It's called a Mini Keeps

Keeping Competition.

393

:

the MBA students from the cohorts,

compete and sometimes we have it in

394

:

collaboration with other business

schools in Africa and beyond.

395

:

last year.

396

:

sometimes the MBAs, they, they

divide them into groups and they

397

:

give them an industry to work on.

398

:

So they are not, they're really smart

people, these MBAs, the Sharper Nails.

399

:

So it could be of the oil and

gas industry, it could be on

400

:

the banking industry and so on

401

:

So, I remember this group, I can't

remember the industry, but there was a

402

:

lady, an MBA student that was so nervous.

403

:

she was presenting with her colleagues.

404

:

I think she was the second person.

405

:

there were about three of them.

406

:

And you could hear her voice shaking

and she stumbled and stuff like that.

407

:

And I just kept on staying in my mind.

408

:

'cause I was in the audience.

409

:

I had coached some of them.

410

:

So I kept on saying, just stick with it.

411

:

I was really rooting for it just.

412

:

Just finish, stick with it and everything.

413

:

She managed to finish her bit,

stumbled across her words.

414

:

The audience applauded and

people kept on saying that.

415

:

Even in the audience, I could

hear people saying, oh gosh, she

416

:

was so nervous, but well done.

417

:

She was fantastic.

418

:

after the presentation I spoke

to the lady and she said, gosh,

419

:

like that was really terrible.

420

:

I said, no, but well done.

421

:

You finished and you were still

able to get your point across.

422

:

It can only get better.

423

:

what really impressed me were people

in the audience who didn't know.

424

:

they were applauding and I could

hear them saying, oh gosh, that

425

:

must have been really difficult.

426

:

what I took away from that experience

is that the audience is on your side.

427

:

the audience the majority of them, are

on your side and they're rooting for you.

428

:

So no matter how bad

an experience you have.

429

:

stick to it to the bitter end.

430

:

Learn from it.

431

:

people realize how daunting

it is to get up to speak.

432

:

Everybody has that fear.

433

:

professionals have all their routines

and they have processes that help

434

:

them to deal with the nerves, but

like you said, putting yourself

435

:

out there would really help.

436

:

And the more you do so, it may not

really go away, but the easier it gets.

437

:

John: I like myself.

438

:

I'm a more natural introvert, and

there are so many people who don't

439

:

believe that because I do all

the podcasting and speaking, I do

440

:

stand up comedy and all this stuff.

441

:

my tendency is I like quiet time.

442

:

I like to have time by myself and

I don't get particularly energized.

443

:

I like being in big groups now and

again, but I have to limit it, I think

444

:

I've moved myself more to being ambi.

445

:

I'm somewhere more in the middle

with a tendency towards introversion.

446

:

I think many people are.

447

:

the reality is the more we do stuff,

the more we put ourselves out there.

448

:

People understand how hard this

stuff is for the most part.

449

:

And they will applaud because most of

them can't imagine themselves doing that.

450

:

So they do see, alright,

you've done something that I

451

:

don't think I could ever do.

452

:

that's worthy of applause.

453

:

It's not like, a New York

comedy club where you're gonna

454

:

get booed off the stage Right.

455

:

Exactly.

456

:

this is very different.

457

:

People.

458

:

will support it.

459

:

the worst critic we're ever

gonna get is inside our heads.

460

:

we will always be around that.

461

:

Lucille Ossai: We are so self-critical

that we think worse of our

462

:

performance than we actually were.

463

:

John: Absolutely.

464

:

Lucille Ossai: And some of the things

you think people would've noticed,

465

:

they're like, no, I didn't notice that.

466

:

I just noticed, you know,

you're a bit, but no, I didn't.

467

:

And you're like, you really,

didn't notice X, Y, Z.

468

:

John: find I, I doing this things stand

comedy, I'll get up and do a routine.

469

:

it'll be like five, 10 minutes on

stage, whatever, when I go off stage.

470

:

You know, people have laugh people,

but a few minutes later people have

471

:

mostly forgotten what it is all about.

472

:

They're not, they're not

thinking about that anymore.

473

:

They're watching the next act, or they're

enjoying the drinking each other, friends.

474

:

Whereas me, I'm thinking about it for

hours afterwards or that Joe didn't go as

475

:

well as I thought, or I could have landed,

or maybe I should have tried it this way.

476

:

And, you know, the, I'm, I'm,

I'm the one who's gonna obsess

477

:

over it and criticize myself.

478

:

Yeah.

479

:

We all, we all do it.

480

:

And, and it's, it's natural.

481

:

We shouldn't punish

ourselves but just be aware.

482

:

You are probably perceived much

more highly than by others than

483

:

you are doing for yourself.

484

:

'cause I think some of us feel that

the external voices are gonna be

485

:

negative as well, and they really are.

486

:

You talk about something that

I don't see a lot of actually,

487

:

and, I think it's important.

488

:

I don't see a lot of people talking about.

489

:

Writing skills when it comes to

effective communication, but you do.

490

:

So I'd love to hear about

why you focus on that.

491

:

And you've already mentioned

a little bit about how we can

492

:

improve, our email writing skills.

493

:

why is this so important and what are

the things that you recommend people

494

:

do to improve their writing skills?

495

:

Lucille Ossai: Okay, so writing

business, writing, to me, I think

496

:

my skills in business writing

were what I was known for.

497

:

And it's really funny because in my

first job I went outta university.

498

:

I worked at a foreign embassy

in the business section and I

499

:

had to do a lot of templates.

500

:

I had to write a lot of reports and

so on and it's just something that

501

:

I worked on and it became easier.

502

:

I didn't do a lot of speaking,

but I did a lot of writing.

503

:

So when I landed the job at Legal

Business School, I think This year will

504

:

make it As the communications code.

505

:

I had done some training here and there,

but I never really tackled the writing

506

:

and it was like a baptism by fire.

507

:

I scaled through the interview process

where I had to do the presentation.

508

:

That was fine.

509

:

And in my first session, I would always

remember this in my first session.

510

:

Yeah.

511

:

My mentor, yeah.

512

:

Person I was reporting to told me,

oh, you know, you're just going to

513

:

facilitate a session with the MBAs.

514

:

I was like, okay, no problem.

515

:

I walk into the class and it's packed.

516

:

This was long before COVID, it was packed.

517

:

So I went there and he told

me, oh no, I'll be in the room.

518

:

You know, I'll be at

the back, have no fear.

519

:

If you have any problems,

I'll come and help you out.

520

:

So I was like, okay, he's at the back.

521

:

I could see him, But then I noticed

midway he just left the room and

522

:

I was really, really nervous.

523

:

I had prepared and everything.

524

:

I started to talk and I started

to write and I went back to him

525

:

afterwards and I accused him, I

was like, oh, you abandoned me.

526

:

He said, look, you are a communications

coach, not just a business writing coach.

527

:

And that's why I started to

build the skills origin model.

528

:

what I say is that because of the

competition in the business world,

529

:

everybody at some point would speak,

but a lot of people don't write.

530

:

And it's really, really strict.

531

:

But we know, we write emails

every day apart from emails.

532

:

Many people don't really

focus on the writing.

533

:

if you are working in a, in the

back, in the back, I think they call

534

:

it the backend or the back office.

535

:

Your, your technical or your accountant

or your lawyer or, or something like that.

536

:

You find that unless you make a serious

effort to improve your writing skills,

537

:

you would end up not really writing.

538

:

It's just one of those skills you

think, oh, I can do it until you

539

:

have to start doing it consistently.

540

:

this is what I have experienced,

especially with the executive MBAs.

541

:

These are people that are

super sharp, very intelligent

542

:

But when it comes down to the writing, I

get comments like, oh gosh, the last time

543

:

I had to really write essays or articles

as when I was in university or when I

544

:

was in secondary school, over time people

just concentrated on their technical

545

:

skills and did less and less writing.

546

:

Not that they couldn't write, but they

were not put in positions where they had

547

:

to write consistently and persuasively.

548

:

So that became a trend that I noticed.

549

:

And then I found out also that a lot

of people don't read, and there's

550

:

a correlation between reading well,

written material, and your writing.

551

:

According to science, the more

you read and expose yourself to

552

:

it, the better you get at writing.

553

:

what I've noticed personally is that

when you read well-written materials,

554

:

you begin to notice structures.

555

:

You begin to notice grammar.

556

:

The way grammar is used and manipulated

and broken, and still used in

557

:

persuasive ways, you begin to notice

expressions, and then all these things

558

:

end up seeping into your writing over

time, making you a better writer.

559

:

even before I landed the job at

the Lagos Business School, already

560

:

blogging for about six or eight

years, and I was blogging every month

561

:

even before I got formally employed

562

:

And I noticed the difference in my skill.

563

:

It became sharp.

564

:

I became more confident and all that.

565

:

What I tell people is that.

566

:

If you want to get the attention

of important people you may not

567

:

even get the opportunity to speak.

568

:

But write, they would notice

very good writing because so few

569

:

people write well, It's amazing.

570

:

that is the one way you can differentiate

yourself and the more you do it,

571

:

the better you get it starts small.

572

:

Yeah, but don't just rely on emails.

573

:

You can start a blog.

574

:

I tell everybody start a blog.

575

:

And they're like, yeah, really?

576

:

I say, yeah, started

block it doesn't matter.

577

:

nobody reads it.

578

:

just choose a topic you are

passionate about and choose

579

:

a schedule and stick to it.

580

:

So you could decide to block once a month.

581

:

That is fine.

582

:

You could decide, to do it twice a week.

583

:

That is fine.

584

:

But block, consistently and write.

585

:

To the best of your ability.

586

:

write as though, the New York Times,

for example, or a reputable magazine

587

:

would pay you to publish your article.

588

:

So that's the thing.

589

:

that's the point I stress.

590

:

I said don't just write, because if you're

just writing and you're not challenging

591

:

yourself, then you're not improving.

592

:

But write intentionally, check your

grammar, check the structure and all that.

593

:

And just do that consistently.

594

:

You would see an improvement

and that will help you.

595

:

John: I personally feel it is funny that

I hadn't really thought about it that

596

:

much until this conversation, but for me

writing is something that has helped me,

597

:

not just to discover my writing voice, but

to discover my voice as a speaker as well.

598

:

Yes, to help me figure out.

599

:

my own opinions, my own decisions.

600

:

Very often we spend so much time

being told what to think these days.

601

:

And given opinions, that we rarely spend

much time developing our own we can just

602

:

cherry pick from the ones around us.

603

:

Whereas when you actually start working

on your own thoughts and feelings and

604

:

opinions about things, you really do

start to find your own voice, your

605

:

own style of writing and expression.

606

:

And that is such a critical thing.

607

:

I haven't focused on it

that much before, but I can

608

:

completely understand why you do.

609

:

Yeah.

610

:

it is probably an element that I

might well even look at bringing

611

:

into my own programs because of

understanding how important that is.

612

:

here's my question for you.

613

:

I guess we both understand, the value

of finding your own voice, but for

614

:

those people who maybe sort of thinking,

well, I could just get on chat GPT

615

:

and get that to do it all for me.

616

:

Yes.

617

:

Lucille Ossai: Yep.

618

:

John: What would you say

to encourage them to this.

619

:

Lucille Ossai: this is

a fantastic question.

620

:

Especially now that business schools

around the world have come to realize

621

:

that they have to prepare the graduates

and participants for a world where

622

:

they can use TGP or any other AI

623

:

But here's my thing, and this

is the same advice I give to

624

:

people when I say read books and

don't just listen to audio books.

625

:

Because when you read, you

begin to notice constructions.

626

:

You begin to notice all those pink

can covering, and I say, please learn

627

:

how to write and focus on writing and

improving your own writing skills to

628

:

the point that it becomes easier for

you to break rules and to know how to

629

:

use church, GTP to enhance writing.

630

:

If you do it the other way round, you

will never, hone your writing skills.

631

:

And be confused about the kind

of tone or voice or persona you

632

:

want to present to the world.

633

:

So it's a little bit like grammar.

634

:

Know the rules of grammar.

635

:

They know when you know how to break them.

636

:

but you have to know the rules because

there are some grammatical rules that

637

:

you cannot break as a professional.

638

:

For example.

639

:

and we're talking about business writing.

640

:

Your name has to be capitalized.

641

:

That's a grammatical rule.

642

:

Rule is a proper, now

it must be capitalized.

643

:

That is one rule you should not break.

644

:

So take time to build your writing

skills and how do you do that?

645

:

there are really only two ways

to become a better writer.

646

:

two simple ways.

647

:

when I tell them that,

they're like, really?

648

:

I like, yeah, really read

well written material.

649

:

This is critical.

650

:

read novels.

651

:

Read articles.

652

:

Read opinion pieces.

653

:

Just make sure they are written

well and you have a whole selection.

654

:

read and then write.

655

:

That's it.

656

:

Read well-written material.

657

:

Read beyond your field.

658

:

So I'm a communication person.

659

:

If I only read about communication

then I'm limiting myself.

660

:

But if I read extensively, then I

begin to notice different things.

661

:

Not only will I become more knowledgeable,

but I begin to notice different styles.

662

:

when I'm writing, you

know, it just, I just pull.

663

:

Yeah.

664

:

And this is something you

do without realizing it.

665

:

it all seeps into your mind and

translates into your writing.

666

:

John: Yeah.

667

:

Lucille Ossai: some expressions I used.

668

:

I know for a fact that maybe two, three

years ago, I never used those expressions.

669

:

How I came to start using them.

670

:

I do not know, but I know it is

somewhere, somehow some material I've

671

:

come across the way, something I've read

or something other people used and I

672

:

thought, Hmm, I like that expression.

673

:

And then put my own twist

on it and basically, yeah,

674

:

assimilated it into my writing.

675

:

John: it's inevitable

that we will assimilate.

676

:

And I think that's all good.

677

:

Good advice.

678

:

The quality reading, not just

audio books, but actual reading.

679

:

Great advice and doing the

practical writing skills.

680

:

these are all like the Renaissance

person skills, you know, the stuff that

681

:

really does make you potentially stand

out is that, well, if you wanna blend it

682

:

with everyone else, do it the lazy way.

683

:

let AI do it all for you

684

:

But if you actually want to say

something worth saying and have your own.

685

:

Takes on things and be able to write

really well and communicate really well.

686

:

it's gonna take doing it the hard way.

687

:

Lucille Ossai: it's no

688

:

John: People don't like to hear this, but

689

:

Lucille Ossai: yeah.

690

:

John: The thing is, it's worth doing that.

691

:

That's the reality of it.

692

:

It will never get you To the top levels.

693

:

Lucille Ossai: Absolutely.

694

:

Writing has for me, yeah.

695

:

People have been able to

reach through my writing.

696

:

I've been able to challenge, some high

authorities and all that, and not because

697

:

I, not because influencer or anybody,

but just because I was able to craft

698

:

and writing well will get you notice.

699

:

You might not get the desired results,

but you would definitely get a response.

700

:

I tell anybody if everything else fails

and you need to make a point, or you

701

:

need to open some doors, or you need

something to move, then you should write.

702

:

I've written to different organizations.

703

:

I've written to different people.

704

:

when I was writing my Facebook, I

said, okay, I'm be really ambitious.

705

:

Who am I going to contact

to invite to interview?

706

:

And I thought, who do I really admire?

707

:

some other people admired some decline.

708

:

Some said, okay, you know, COVID

we're just getting into COVID and

709

:

everything, and, they couldn't And I

said, no, the Obamas to me, I think

710

:

Michelle Obama, Barack Obama, they

are among my top 10 communicators So I

711

:

said, you know what, I'm gonna write.

712

:

So I wrote, I wrote to the O banners,

I wrote to Michelle oban, wrote,

713

:

you know, had my whole story on

my pitch, Of course, she declined,

714

:

or her press people declined.

715

:

But you know what?

716

:

I saved that note.

717

:

from time to time I look at it

718

:

The fact that they even responded to

me was modern enough and it wasn't

719

:

a one-liner, it was a considerate,

somebody took time to respond.

720

:

I was like, hmm, I would like to

think that not everybody who writes

721

:

would get that kind of response.

722

:

to me That was just an example.

723

:

And I usually say sometimes at the end

of the writing program, once you know

724

:

the rules and commit to the discipline

of writing, there is nobody on the

725

:

planet you would not be able to write to.

726

:

And I mean that sincerely, you

know, you'll get to that point.

727

:

Whereby like, okay, oh, they

say right to Donald Trump.

728

:

You are like, Hmm, okay.

729

:

Donald Trump.

730

:

Okay.

731

:

You analyze him do your research.

732

:

But yeah.

733

:

who never knows, you know, the first

rule of communication, know your orders.

734

:

You know what is

important to Donald Trump.

735

:

If you know what's important to him,

there's a way you're gonna craft that

736

:

note and you would get a response.

737

:

I'm glad you brought up, the point

of about writing, and why my book, I

738

:

tackled different communication themes.

739

:

I did the nonverbal, I did the business

writing, I did the public speaking.

740

:

But out of the three, if you commit to

writing well it takes a lot of work.

741

:

I've been doing it for over 20 years

from my first job I became really steeped

742

:

in it when I started my blog, and I've

been doing my blog now for 13 years.

743

:

From, oh, I can't do the math

right now, but I started in 20

744

:

John: Yeah,

745

:

Lucille Ossai: Every month.

746

:

personally, it's a struggle sometimes.

747

:

I'm like, my God, it's

the end of the month.

748

:

I've written on the last day at

2 59, I've posted my blog first.

749

:

I did not want to miss that.

750

:

John: I respect that level of commitment.

751

:

I really do.

752

:

Yeah.

753

:

I, I, I also like, as well that

yeah, what, what you said really

754

:

demonstrates that even, even, uh,

someone declining an invite or Yeah.

755

:

Which many people, that is a rejection.

756

:

Yeah.

757

:

When it's done, when it's not

just done generically, when

758

:

is that a considered response?

759

:

Lucille Ossai: Yes.

760

:

John: That is it, it's

still valuable to you.

761

:

Lucille Ossai: Absolutely.

762

:

John: Uh, and, and potentially even shows.

763

:

Okay, well, it might be worth.

764

:

Taking some of that and

trying again later on or so?

765

:

Yep.

766

:

Absolutely.

767

:

Absolutely.

768

:

Stuff like that stays with you.

769

:

I, I had a, a, a, uh, an application

with saying last year that I got rejected

770

:

for, but the response was so considered,

I actually felt really good about it.

771

:

It's like, all right, I understood exactly

why I didn't get it and, and what no.

772

:

Gave me some things to work on.

773

:

I thought that was really valuable.

774

:

One thing I do want to make sure

we get to, if it's okay, but with

775

:

the, before we wrap up this Yes.

776

:

Very, very interesting conversation.

777

:

I'd love to hear a little bit about

how you are helping to prepare the next

778

:

generation of business leaders at the

Lagos Business School and what you see,

779

:

like what, what inspires you or gives

you hope for the future for them at them.

780

:

Lucille Ossai: Okay, so that's a

fantastic question and um, more and

781

:

more we are getting requests and

leadership development and communication.

782

:

And I think in addition to all the

skills that the leaders have, I think

783

:

it's critical that they take their

communication skills seriously and

784

:

that they, they either do some training

or they just get better acquaintance.

785

:

'cause their ability for them to

be able to communicate well will

786

:

translate into business results.

787

:

I have some, I have a, a very good,

I think, research findings and I can

788

:

remember, so when I was writing my

book, I came across this research

789

:

by the kechum Kechum Leadership

Communication Monitor Group.

790

:

Yeah.

791

:

And they did some research in

:

792

:

So they analyzed the perceptions

of 6,500 people across 13 countries

793

:

on the link between effective

communication and great leadership.

794

:

And they came up with different,

um, different points, but

795

:

two to caught my attention.

796

:

So the first they realized

that open communication was

797

:

important to effective leadership.

798

:

Communication was ranked

the top attribute.

799

:

Um, at that time, 74% believing

that open communication was

800

:

essential to great leadership.

801

:

74.

802

:

So that's significant.

803

:

Meanwhile, I think I have it here,

29% felt that the leaders were

804

:

not communicating effectively.

805

:

Yeah.

806

:

So there was like a 45, 45 points gap

between the expectation and delivery.

807

:

To me, that was, wow.

808

:

That was really, really important.

809

:

Another really important point that

they, they, they uncovered was that, um,

810

:

leadership communication directly impacted

the bottom line leadership communication.

811

:

Yeah.

812

:

With 61% of the people surveyed,

boycotting the company's, uh, products

813

:

and all that because of poor leadership.

814

:

It's to also communicate

here to internally.

815

:

They have to see the communication.

816

:

They have to feel that

the communication is open.

817

:

And then your, your actions has to have

to match your, yeah, whatever you say.

818

:

Yeah.

819

:

So your, your actions

have to be consistent.

820

:

And of course, by the time you begin

to work on your communications,

821

:

'cause you begin to hold emotional

intelligence, you begin to know how to

822

:

address some things, how to deal with

opposition, how to regulate your own

823

:

emotions as well, to be able to put

the best foot forward so you wouldn't

824

:

have the knee jack reaction reactions.

825

:

You have the C CEOs waking up one

day and just saying, you know what?

826

:

Come to work every day.

827

:

Otherwise 60% of you are fired.

828

:

Or, uh, so something

along, along those lines.

829

:

Yeah.

830

:

After all these things end up

influencing attitudes and behaviors in

831

:

your organization and also influences

the perceptions people outside

832

:

your organization have all of you.

833

:

So I think that, I think this,

that research was mind blowing, chu

834

:

in case you are interested in it.

835

:

So I remember, of course, it's similar

to catch up, so it's not catch up.

836

:

Yeah, it's, yeah.

837

:

Yeah, that

838

:

John: would help me as well.

839

:

I do, yeah.

840

:

Lucille Ossai: That's how I,

that's how I remembered it.

841

:

So it's catchum Leadership

communication monitor group.

842

:

So the 2014

843

:

John: worth checking out.

844

:

Yeah, that's checking out.

845

:

Lucille Ossai: Fantastic.

846

:

Fantastic.

847

:

John: It's,

848

:

Lucille Ossai: yeah.

849

:

Thought that it was the

top ranking attributes.

850

:

John: So this is good that you're,

you are, you are making sure that, um,

851

:

the, the young business leaders coming

through the Legos business School right

852

:

now are, uh, equipped for this and

ready this before they even hit the.

853

:

Yes.

854

:

Working well or in, uh, well, I assume

many of them are just getting started.

855

:

Some of them may be doing their

business degrees a bit later on.

856

:

But from what you've seen and from

your experience of working with these

857

:

people, what, what are your feelings

about the, the future of business

858

:

leadership that, that's coming up now?

859

:

Lucille Ossai: I think

I'm very optimistic.

860

:

We're getting, I think Nigeria, we

have a very vibrant young population.

861

:

Yeah, I think we are over, we're over

200 million, but we have a significant

862

:

percentage of the population being young.

863

:

And these youngsters, they are brilliant.

864

:

They're coming up with different

innovations, with different stick.

865

:

So I go into those sessions, not just

with the executives, well, the young ones.

866

:

Not just thinking, oh, I'm just

going to Lord over, you know, just

867

:

going to tell them that this is it.

868

:

I'm the expert.

869

:

I go in.

870

:

Also learn it because

they will challenge you.

871

:

They'll ask you, no, but what about this?

872

:

What about this?

873

:

Or shouldn't you consider?

874

:

And that's what I end up learning.

875

:

I end up learning as well, you know,

so I'm very optimistic about them.

876

:

I do, I do worry that sometimes if

they leave the, the, the environment,

877

:

the business school environment, that

they may be too busy to take their

878

:

communication skills seriously until

such a time whereby they are compelled

879

:

to do so, and by that time it's too late.

880

:

So what I hope to be able to, um,

inspire them to do is to start, well,

881

:

to start well in the business school

and to just keep with it, you know,

882

:

to keep up the momentum and not to

not to get tired, and not to drop off

883

:

the, because by the time they leave,

you know, they're not, we're not gonna

884

:

be grading their writing anymore.

885

:

We're not gonna be grading their writing,

we're not gonna be grading their speaking.

886

:

But these are skills that they

would need at the workplace.

887

:

So it is my hope, and it is my mission

as well, that, um, I basically.

888

:

Plant the seed.

889

:

Yeah.

890

:

The seed of discipline.

891

:

I think that's the best way to put

it, to plant the seed of discipline,

892

:

communication, advancements and training.

893

:

And, uh, just holding their

communication skills so that

894

:

they can continue the journey.

895

:

It's a never ending journey.

896

:

I tell them all the time.

897

:

I said, despite being in the field for,

for a number of years, I constantly read,

898

:

I, I'm always interested in new insight.

899

:

AI came up just I think three years ago.

900

:

Yeah.

901

:

Before that we didn't have ai.

902

:

And AI is disrupting a lot of things,

you know, and it's something that we,

903

:

professionals and communication trainers

and facilitators, we, there's something

904

:

we should also take note of, you know, so

I'm using ai, but there are some things.

905

:

I don't use ai, I refuse to use ai, do,

you know, for my articles, whatever.

906

:

But the other day I, I copied and pasted,

um, an entire article into Claude.

907

:

Yeah.

908

:

And I just said, just do this into,

uh, you know, I dunno, into a LinkedIn.

909

:

For LinkedIn infographic, and he did all

the coding and I was just fascinated.

910

:

It was just call it, call

it, call it, call it coding.

911

:

And I said, show me the visual.

912

:

And he show me something beautiful.

913

:

I said, no, take this out, do this.

914

:

And I just sat back

and it just did it all.

915

:

John: Save a lot of time.

916

:

Yeah.

917

:

That's what it should be doing.

918

:

Yeah.

919

:

Lucille Ossai: That's

what should be doing.

920

:

John: Should be making life easier for

us, but not replacing replacing it.

921

:

Lucille Ossai: That's a fine line.

922

:

There's

923

:

John: a fine line.

924

:

Yeah.

925

:

My, my, my biggest fear, well I maybe

it should be big, maybe bigger business,

926

:

but one of my fears with a AI is that

it's, uh, and, and could end up being

927

:

the death of creativity for people.

928

:

Lucille Ossai: Yes.

929

:

Yeah.

930

:

John: If, uh, because AI has been scraping

other people's creativity and mm-hmm.

931

:

Using that and sharing out to us all and

democratizing creativity, but mm-hmm.

932

:

If it takes away the need

for creatives mm-hmm.

933

:

Um, we're not gonna get new creativity.

934

:

There's not, we're gonna be

stuck in a rut of creativity.

935

:

Uh, yes.

936

:

That's one of the, I worry the

things, one of the things coming.

937

:

Lucille Ossai: Yes.

938

:

I worry that eventually there'll

be a lot of books written by ai.

939

:

It's already happening.

940

:

Yeah, it's already happening, but

then there would still be a demand.

941

:

In fact, there'll be identity, there'll

be more of a demand for that human

942

:

touch and that human and flawed out.

943

:

John: I hope that's the

way it goes, Lizzie.

944

:

I really do.

945

:

Uh, I know, we know, we know your

book wasn't written by ai, uh, and

946

:

you have, uh, uh, an influence of

s it covers a lot of the things

947

:

we've talked about today and more.

948

:

Um, tell us a little bit about how

people can, um, get hold of the book

949

:

or get in, uh, get in contact with

you if they want to find out more.

950

:

Lucille Ossai: Okay.

951

:

So I'm on LinkedIn

basically every other day.

952

:

Yeah.

953

:

But, um, they could also send me an

email, so lucille@lucilleside.com,

954

:

visit my website, ton of information

with a link to my blog that has a lot

955

:

of articles, you know, free articles and

on different aspects of communication.

956

:

So that would be good.

957

:

My book is available, Amazon Waterstone,

basically multiple retailers,

958

:

libraries in about six continents.

959

:

And this is what it looks like.

960

:

John: Awesome.

961

:

Well, there, there will

be links for all of these.

962

:

Well, everything for everything you

mentioned, links in the show notes

963

:

linked in the YouTube description.

964

:

So go and take a look there and

just click on one of those links

965

:

and decide which one you want.

966

:

Whether, whether it's reach out

on LinkedIn, whether check out

967

:

the website or shoot an email.

968

:

Lucille Ossai: Yeah,

969

:

John: pick one and or

970

:

Lucille Ossai: connect with me.

971

:

Re I'm always happy to learn about, you

know, the greatest emails or the most

972

:

valuable emails to me are people that

know, okay, I maybe read your blog or I

973

:

attended your whatever training, or I went

on your blog and I took something away and

974

:

I implemented it and this is the result.

975

:

I think that, that, that is,

that is, but that's what's,

976

:

John: and if you can send

an email, get to the point.

977

:

Right.

978

:

Lucille Ossai: I'll send the, I would read

it, trust that I would read it, but it

979

:

does sound people sue, get to the point.

980

:

Yeah.

981

:

John: Lucille, it's been an absolute

delight to have you on the show and

982

:

you shared so much good information.

983

:

You've given me some things

to think about as well.

984

:

Thank you for coming and sharing

your expertise with us today.

985

:

Lucille Ossai: Thank you for having me.

986

:

John: Here's the truth, then

your voice is your power.

987

:

Lucille reminded us that influence isn't

reserved for executives or extroverts,

988

:

it's built by anyone willing to show up,

speak clearly, and write with purpose.

989

:

So don't wait to be noticed.

990

:

Decide today to communicate with

clarity, courage, and consistency.

991

:

And if this episode gave you something

to think about, maybe share it with

992

:

someone who needs to hear this.

993

:

And make sure you hit subscribe so

you never miss these conversations.

994

:

Because the world doesn't

change when you stay quiet.

995

:

It changes when you speak up.

996

:

See you next time.

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About the Podcast

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Professional Speaking: Known. Booked. Paid.
John Ball helps professional speakers get known, booked, and paid at $10k+ fees.

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About your host

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John Ball

John Ball is a keynote coach and professional speaker on a mission to help upcoming leaders master their communication, create impact and stand out as experts in their field.
John left the high life of his flying career to do something more meaningful to him and has since worked with several leading personal and professional development organisations as a lead coach and trainer.
The heart of everything John does involves helping people shift to personal responsibility and conscious awareness of how they show up and perform in every situation, whilst equipping them with the tools to be exceptional.
John also co-hosts The Coaching Clinic Podcast with his great friend and colleague Angie Besignano.
He lives in the beautiful city of Valencia, Spain with his husband and often visits the UK and US for speaking and training engagements. When he's not speaking or podcasting, he's likely to be out swimming, kayaking or enjoying time with friends.

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