En Route Storytelling Event - John's Story & a breakdown of how it was created

John: 00:00:00

This week something a little different for you.

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And if you have been tuning into the show

regularly, and I know some of you do, you

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will have seen that I've been sharing some

storytelling and some standup comedy with

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you, and I'm definitely gonna bring you

more of those things as well as more talks

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that I've got planned coming up as well.

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So I want to share.

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The practical elements of this as well.

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So it's not just me saying, oh, this is

what you should do, or this is what you

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could do, or speaking to other people who

do know, but you can actually see this

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stuff in action from me and from others.

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And so this time I'm bringing you a

storytelling competition that I was

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in recently, and I'll share with you a

bit later in the video where I placed

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in the contest and how that went.

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But first of all, we'll watch the

video together and then we will watch

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it and cut through certain bits.

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I'm gonna share with you how the story

came together, some of the mistakes

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that I made when telling the story and

some of the mistakes I was making in

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putting the story together as well.

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Some of the stuff in this is stuff I

haven't shared much on the podcast over

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time is a very, I would say vulnerable

story, but I wanted to share it and it

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felt really good to share it as well.

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I'm pretty happy with how it turned out.

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I'd love to hear from you what you

think, your thoughts and whether

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maybe it even inspires you to go

and try out some storytelling.

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And let me very quickly remind you, if

you haven't already subscribed to the

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show, please make sure that you do that.

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It's super easy to do on Spotify.

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You just need to click the plus

button and you may even want

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to check out the polls and the

comment section on Spotify as well.

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Would love to hear from you there.

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On Apple Podcast.

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Just click follow.

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It may be different on

your podcast provider.

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If you're on YouTube, it's really

easy, you know what to do, like,

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subscribe and leave a comment.

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It's gonna help me to grow the channel.

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wherever you follow or leave comments

for the show or get interactive in

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whatever way you choose to, you will

have my deepest appreciation for that.

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But let's get on with the show.

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Welcome to Present Influence show for

professional communicators who want

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to impact, influence, and inspire.

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My name's John Ball and I'm your

guide on this journey to mastery

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level presentation skills.

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John Ball's screen-1: As a young

boy, I wanted the stuff you're told

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to want when you're a young kid.

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I wanted nice house, nice job, nice

family, car, of that good stuff.

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But sexual orientation had a few other

ideas and I think I was probably about, I.

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14 years old by the time that I realized

or was told that God wasn't super

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fond of men of the homosexual variety.

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However, I stayed with the church at

that time 'cause I kind of figured

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if some, if anyone was gonna help me

get rid of this unwanted shame I had.

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God was surely the very fellow to do that.

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uh, a few years later I would

mostly be seen hanging around with

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my best Christian friend Marcus.

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Marcus was cool.

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Marcus was charismatic and

Marcus was cute and, uh, Marcus.

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Marcus smelled really good as

well, which was very unusual

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for teenage boys, I guess.

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And I guess I was a bit in love

with Marcus, maybe infatuated.

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Even One day Mark has called me

up and said, uh, can I come over?

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It's really important.

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So I'm like, yeah, okay, sure.

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Come over.

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He got to my house and he said, look,

is there somewhere we can go and talk?

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So we went to the privacy of my bedroom

and he sat on my bed trembling and said,

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I've got a really horrible secret tell.

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I'm not sure.

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I'm not sure I can say it.

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And thought, well, I've got a

horrible secret to share as well.

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I wonder if it's the same one, the

same secret that I had been maybe

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fantasizing about various times as well.

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So I suggested that we both write

our secrets down and swap paper

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and we'd read each other's paper.

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So we wrote our secrets down

and he gave me his paper.

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I gave him mine and I opened

it up and his said, I.

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I am addicted to masturbation.

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A 17-year-old boy addicted

to masturbation ground.

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Groundbreaking,

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but is that it?

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Is that it?

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He opened my paper and they

did not say the same thing.

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Mine said, I think I'm gay.

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And he read that and his face dropped.

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And he said to me, I don't

think I can be your friend

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anymore if you're gonna be gay.

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And I guess compulsive masturbation

didn't seem quite so bad at this point.

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But, uh, he wanted to pray for me.

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I.

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To pray the gay away, and

I didn't know what to do.

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I, I panicked.

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I thought, you know, he might, he could

tell someone, he could tell my parents

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he could help me to various people.

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I said, okay.

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And I let him pray for me.

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There were tears and snot and all

the nasty stuff, and, and at some

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point I, when I just couldn't take

anymore, I said, look, I, I, I think.

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I'm not gay anymore get,

to get him to stop praying

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and, well, he didn't know.

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and, and so not, the only

thing that really changed that

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day was that I felt rejected.

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I felt rejected by him.

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I felt rejected by God.

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I felt rejected by pretty

much the whole world.

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And on that day I realized that

the happy endings that other

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people could have weren't for me.

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I wasn't gonna get that.

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Now it took me another four

years or so to the confidence

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to try coming out, uh, again.

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And I was at university at the time and

I came out to some friends at university.

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I'm happy to say the responses were a

bit more positive and it gave me the

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confidence to come out to my parents.

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So I decided in the next holidays,

I would come out to my parents.

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And when they picked me up from the

train station for the Christmas holidays,

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they drove back to the house and every

conversation in the car was about.

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Gay people.

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Gay.

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This gay, our friends sons gay.

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And, and it wasn't me who was

starting that conversation, so

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something was going on and we got

back to the house and I asked my

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mom, I said, what, what's happening?

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What's the, what's all this

conversation about in the car?

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That was weird.

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she said, we know me and your dad,

we, we know, we know you're gay.

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And it's okay.

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We love you.

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I was like, You know, it is like,

like many queer kids, you have

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that fear for years and years

of what your parents will do.

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When they find out are they gonna kick

you out, are they gonna disown you?

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Or you know, the real fear

is for, for many people.

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Mine didn't.

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Now we've certainly had our ups and downs.

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My dad wasn't very comfortable with it

still, and about a year or so later,

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their church got kind of infiltrated

by this weird religious cult from the

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US and they seemed to get amnesia about

their son being gay for six to 12 months.

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But then that went, thankfully

that went and things normalized

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again, wasn't perfect, and there

was still a lot of work to do.

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I think I pretty much decided at

that point that happy endings and

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relationships probably weren't my thing.

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Like my relationship history was

colorful at best, not very successful.

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And that was seemed to be even

more the case when I moved to

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Javier down the coast here.

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And uh, I.

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Javier, but the gay scene, there

is like several old retired

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couples together with the same sex.

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That's pretty much it.

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But I was happy there.

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I made some friends there.

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Some of those friends had special

benefits as well, and I was like, this

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is I, I could spend the rest of my

years like this and I'm pretty happy.

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And then I met someone and.

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Things happened, things blossomed,

and one day my parents drove by and

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they saw him on the terrace of my

apartment and they wanted to meet him.

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So we set up a dinner and they met him.

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And unlike any of my other

boyfriends, they liked him.

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were happy, conversational, they

really enjoyed getting to know him.

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I thought this is so much progress

from anything we've ever had

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before those awkward times where

they'd met previous boyfriends.

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So I was really happy about it.

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Our relationship continued and as

things deepened, we maybe accelerated

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a little bit by Brexit happening.

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We decided to get married and

uh, and so on the, when I, we got

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started to get married, I wanted

to tell all my friends, I wanted

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to tell the family, and I did that.

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And I even told my Spanish

teacher after our class one day.

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She was so excited.

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She wanted to come to the wedding,

and just as we were finishing up the

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class, a few of her friends came up.

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Now I knew them.

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I had done charity work with Pete

and Trish for, uh, about a year or so

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for a, a food bank that they set up.

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so they knew who I was and Lynn couldn't

keep 'em mouth shut, and b, blood it out

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that I was getting married, and their

faces dropped and it was a strange look.

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They acted as if nothing had been said,

and then abruptly changed the subject.

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Okay, well, I guess they're, we're

not inviting them and, I've had

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worse reactions, so, you know,

but I knew that that wasn't great.

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But I also didn't know at the time

that an invisible fuse had been lit and

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that Tricia had decided to take it upon

herself to start a one woman campaign.

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And she started going up to various

people in my parents' church

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who she knew, and taking them

aside for private conversations.

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My dad kind of got the sense that

something was going on, and one of

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the ladies actually came up to him

one day and said that she had been

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going around various people trying

to convince them that my marriage

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was against what God wanted and that

my parents should not be supporting

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it or even coming to my wedding.

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And this lady unknown to Trisha,

had a gay daughter herself and had

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just been to her wedding so she

wasn't very happy about was going on.

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Now, my dad did try and address the

people, and what ended up happening

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was nobody was actually on her side,

but Trisha did actually manage to

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ambush my mom at a lady's coffee

morning, and my mom was so upset.

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She pretty much ran outta there in tears.

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They didn't want to tell me

'cause they were upset or worried

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about me being upset about it.

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I think this was the first time

my mom particularly had ever

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encountered homophobia herself,

had a personal experience of that.

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So it was quite intense for her.

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But they sat me down and they

told me what had gone on.

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And that Tricia had been waging

this campaign to try and stop

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them attending the wedding.

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Now, it would've done more than just

stop them attending the wedding.

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It would've pretty much damaged all the

progress we'd made in our relationship

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and probably irreparably as well.

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But I had worried for years and

years that at some point my parents

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were gonna have to make a choice

between religion and between me.

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And that day I realized that

they had made their decision.

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they'd chosen me and it was really

only at my wedding, on my wedding day

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looking around, seeing all of my friends

and family there, that my parents were

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really being open about who I was.

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Everyone there was there to celebrate us

and our love that I actually got the happy

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ending that I thought I never could have.

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John: Okay, so, uh, what do you think?

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I, I hope that's all.

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I hope that's all come through.

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Okay.

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But that was the story.

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And, uh, I will show with you.

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I'll show with you now.

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The story won.

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I, I was the winner of the

top raconteur of the night and

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was pretty happy with that.

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I think it was a great, uh, great story.

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There were bits that could have gone

better, but I just wanna, go through some

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of the parts of that story with you so you

can have a, a bit of a sense about some

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of some of the different elements that

I was aiming for with the story as well,

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and what bits of it worked, what bits

of it could have worked better as well.

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John Ball's screen-1: I wanted

all the stuff you're told to

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want when you're a young kid.

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I wanted nice house, nice job, nice

family, car, of that good stuff.

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But my sexual orientation

had a few other ideas.

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I.

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John: Now I stop here because one of the

hardest parts of this whole thing for me

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was figuring out where to start the story.

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And in a lot of storytelling training

that I've done, and you are always

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told to, I've, I've been told.

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To put in a location, the story

needs a location to start with.

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I didn't start with a location.

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If anything, the location was temporal,

uh, of my childhood, my young years.

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Very vague, very general.

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But we do get to a location pretty quick.

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John Ball's screen-1: And I think

I was probably about 14 years old

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by the time that I realized or was

told that God wasn't super fond

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of men of the homosexual variety.

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However, I stayed with the church at

that time 'cause I kind of figured

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if some, if anyone was gonna help me

get rid of this unwanted shame I had.

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was surely the very fellow to do that.

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And, uh, a few years later, I would

mostly be seen hanging around with

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my best Christian friend Marcus.

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Marcus was cool.

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Marcus charismatic, and Marcus was cute.

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And, uh, Marcus.

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Marcus smelled really good as

well, which was very unusual

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for teenage boys, I guess.

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John: Yeah, I, I generally can't help

but go for a few laughs here and there.

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It's the comedian inside me, uh,

and that's always gonna come out.

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But, um, I will say this, there's

certainly some more laughs in this, as

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you've already seen from watching through.

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But one of the things I found myself

doing, and if you are someone who

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tends to go for the joke a lot of

the time, like myself, it's a really

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important thing to watch out for.

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I was going for the jokes over the story

some of the time, so in editing and the

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whole process of creating this, that was

one of the things that I really had to.

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Guard against and stuff there.

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All right.

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Okay.

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Some of my jokes had to go, some of

them actually were damaging the story

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and, and changing the atmosphere of it.

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Like later on there's a, there was

some jokes about Trisha, the lady

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who was like campaigning against

my parents attending my wedding.

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Um, that just seemed.

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Uh, the, some of the feedback

I got in rehearsals that was

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that they seemed kind of nasty.

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Uh, and certainly that wasn't my

intention or it made, it, made it

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look like perhaps there was still

resentment there, which there isn't.

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So, you know, it's all

in the past and moved on.

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But this is a critical element with,

uh, two critical things really was

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storytelling that I have found in this

process, and certainly not the first

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time I've been introduced to these ideas.

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But one is that.

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The, the story is more

important than the humor.

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If you can add humor in and it fits

well with your story, and sometimes

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it's there naturally, then great.

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But don't, don't go for humor just

for the sake of going for humor.

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Let it be natural.

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Let it let it flow as best you can.

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And sometimes the jokes will stand out.

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The the joke that's coming

up, I'll tell you something

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about that when we get to it.

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But the other thing that came up in

this process was very much about I

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have not always been a hundred percent

comfortable talking about my sexuality

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and my relationships in public, and

so that was a barrier to get past,

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and I recognized it was an important

one, that it was something that.

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There was no real reason

for me holding myself back.

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It's not like I'm ashamed of

who I am or anything like that.

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The only thing I could really, ultimately

think that was some that, that pulling

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me back in my brain was this thing that

I've kind of grown up with, I guess.

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And some of that's a theme in the story

as well, to a degree of caring a little

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bit too much about what other people

think of me and the willingness to let

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that go creates, created a level of

vulnerability for me that was very, it

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was, it was in some ways refreshing, but

it was definitely a bit scary as well.

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Alright, let's move on with the story.

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John Ball's screen-1: And I guess I was a

bit in love with Marcus, maybe infatuated.

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Even one day Marcus called me up

and said, uh, can I come over?

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It's really important.

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So I'm like, yeah, okay, sure.

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Come over.

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to my house and he said, look, is

there somewhere we can go and talk?

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So we went to the privacy of my bedroom

and he sat on my bed trembling and said,

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I've got a really horrible secret tell.

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I'm not sure.

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I'm not sure I can say it.

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: 00:16:51

And thought, well, I've got a

horrible secret to share as well.

311

: 00:16:55

I wonder if it's the same one,

the same secret that I had been.

312

: 00:17:02

Maybe fantasizing about

various times as well.

313

: 00:17:05

So I suggested that we both write

our secrets down and swap paper,

314

: 00:17:09

and we'd read each other's paper.

315

: 00:17:10

So we wrote our secrets down

and he gave me his paper.

316

: 00:17:14

I gave him mine and I opened it up and

he said, I'm addicted to masturbation.

317

: 00:17:23

A 17-year-old boy addicted to

masturbation ground groundbreaking.

318

: 00:17:29

John: All right, I'm pausing at there.

319

: 00:17:30

Now.

320

: 00:17:30

That story is almost, count for

count exactly what happened.

321

: 00:17:35

I mean, very minor changes.

322

: 00:17:37

Nothing that really affects the story,

that is exactly what his piece of

323

: 00:17:40

paper said and all of that stuff.

324

: 00:17:42

And, um, so it's, it's a very true story.

325

: 00:17:47

I don't know, I don't really

know how else to put it to you,

326

: 00:17:49

but the line about, a teenage boy addicted

to masturbation that didn't come to

327

: 00:17:55

me until the night of the story event.

328

: 00:17:58

We sat, sat watching some of the

other storytellers ni course.

329

: 00:18:00

As much as you wanna be focused and

present for the other storytellers, I.

330

: 00:18:04

If you haven't gone and

performed yet, you're still

331

: 00:18:06

thinking about your own story.

332

: 00:18:08

I, that's me anyway.

333

: 00:18:09

Maybe you as well.

334

: 00:18:10

But I think that's pretty natural and

that's where that line came to me is

335

: 00:18:13

like, I, I knew that there needed to be

something to, to punctuate the line of a

336

: 00:18:18

teenage boy addicted to masturbation and.

337

: 00:18:22

And I thought there was that thing.

338

: 00:18:24

I trying to think, trying to remember

it, that line that, uh, that Meryl

339

: 00:18:28

Streep had in the Devil West Prada

that just cracked everyone up and

340

: 00:18:31

it's like, what was the word she said?

341

: 00:18:33

Groundbreaking.

342

: 00:18:34

That's the word.

343

: 00:18:35

That's the punctuation

that, that joke needs.

344

: 00:18:38

And, and it worked.

345

: 00:18:39

And it, and it fits in really well.

346

: 00:18:41

But this whole event was real and actually

very traumatic for me as a 16-year-old

347

: 00:18:46

because I was trying to come out.

348

: 00:18:48

Um, it was a complicated coming out

'cause I was trying to come out to someone

349

: 00:18:52

who I was very attracted to and um, and

obviously with religious complications

350

: 00:18:58

where everything else it didn't go well.

351

: 00:18:59

But the other aspect of this is

stories do kind of need their villains

352

: 00:19:04

and this story kind of has two.

353

: 00:19:06

Marcus is less of the villain because

he was still very young and, and, and

354

: 00:19:10

immature, but still a bit of a villain

because, you know, the, the whole sort

355

: 00:19:14

of turning against me because like, well,

you're gay and I can't be your friend

356

: 00:19:17

if you're a Christian, blah, blah, blah.

357

: 00:19:19

Some people might empathize with him

more than me, but, uh, I might might not

358

: 00:19:22

see him as the villain at all in that.

359

: 00:19:24

A lot of people will, it's not

necessarily intended that he is,

360

: 00:19:27

but he is definitely the antagonist

there rather than the protagonist.

361

: 00:19:31

And uh, and I think it is important,

know it's very helpful to have those sort

362

: 00:19:35

of delineations in your story as well.

363

: 00:19:39

I don't think you again want to ex,

I didn't want to exaggerate that and

364

: 00:19:42

make Marcus into anything he wasn't.

365

: 00:19:44

He was a great guy.

366

: 00:19:46

In so many ways, and I was very

much, I was infatuated with him

367

: 00:19:50

when I was that age, but that

whole situation messed me up.

368

: 00:19:54

So, um, but you know, I'm happy to be able

to share that now from a place of having

369

: 00:20:01

healed from it and, and it not being, not

really affecting me in the same way now.

370

: 00:20:07

John Ball's screen-1: But is that it?

371

: 00:20:08

it?

372

: 00:20:11

He opened my paper and they

did not say the same thing.

373

: 00:20:16

Mine said, I think I'm gay.

374

: 00:20:18

And he read that and his face dropped.

375

: 00:20:21

I.

376

: 00:20:22

And he said to me, I don't

think I can be your friend

377

: 00:20:24

anymore if you're gonna be gay.

378

: 00:20:28

And I guess compulsive masturbation

didn't seem quite so bad at this point.

379

: 00:20:34

But, uh, he wanted to pray for me.

380

: 00:20:37

I.

381

: 00:20:37

To pray the gay away, and

I didn't know what to do.

382

: 00:20:41

I, I panicked.

383

: 00:20:42

I thought, you know, he might, he could

tell someone, he could tell my parents

384

: 00:20:44

he could out me to various people.

385

: 00:20:47

I said, okay.

386

: 00:20:47

And I let him pray for me.

387

: 00:20:49

There were tears and snot and all

the nasty stuff, and, and at some

388

: 00:20:53

point I, when I just couldn't take

anymore, I said, look, I, I, I think.

389

: 00:20:57

I'm not gay anymore get,

to get him to stop praying

390

: 00:21:03

and, well, he didn't know.

391

: 00:21:06

So,

392

: 00:21:08

and, and so not, the only

thing that really changed that

393

: 00:21:12

day was that I felt rejected.

394

: 00:21:14

I felt rejected by him.

395

: 00:21:15

I felt rejected by God.

396

: 00:21:16

I felt rejected by pretty

much the whole world.

397

: 00:21:21

John: Um, again, pretty much blow by blow.

398

: 00:21:23

That is what happened.

399

: 00:21:24

That was the, as best I, as

best as I remember it, memory

400

: 00:21:28

being a pretty fallible thing.

401

: 00:21:29

I know that's pretty much my

memory of that whole event.

402

: 00:21:34

Um, certainly didn't have the discourse

going on in my head about that

403

: 00:21:37

time of, uh, um, you know, I wasn't

making jokes in my head about what

404

: 00:21:41

he was saying or anything like that.

405

: 00:21:43

At that time, I was.

406

: 00:21:44

Really, uh, scared, really scared that

I was gonna be outed to my, my family,

407

: 00:21:50

to the church and this whole community.

408

: 00:21:53

I might actually get kicked outta

this whole community that I was in.

409

: 00:21:56

That did happen years, a few years later.

410

: 00:21:58

But not for those reasons,

interestingly enough.

411

: 00:22:01

And, um.

412

: 00:22:02

There, there was so much more that

I really wanted to say here, and it

413

: 00:22:06

had to be paired down, and I had to

really decide quite early on what the

414

: 00:22:11

point, what the whole purpose of the

story was, like the themes, deadlines,

415

: 00:22:15

but I didn't want the whole story to

be like a countdown or a deadline.

416

: 00:22:18

It just features, features, some deadline

elements in it that, that relate to it.

417

: 00:22:24

So it was almost tangential

to some degree, the theme of

418

: 00:22:28

the, the theme of the night.

419

: 00:22:29

But, I initially wanted the story

to kind of be about too many things.

420

: 00:22:32

I was trying to make it really

clever that it was gonna work

421

: 00:22:35

on all these multiple levels.

422

: 00:22:36

And, you know, I think we were

gonna have a big focus in on

423

: 00:22:39

Brexit being the countdown.

424

: 00:22:41

And that was the thing that, sparked

the marriage and stuff like that.

425

: 00:22:44

But there wasn't enough emotion to it and,

and there wasn't enough purpose to it.

426

: 00:22:48

And, and then it was gonna be,

well, is the story about me not

427

: 00:22:52

really caring about getting married

when I was younger and kind.

428

: 00:22:56

Of pushing all that away from me.

429

: 00:22:58

And then at some point later in my life,

meeting someone who made me want that and

430

: 00:23:02

recognizing, actually, this is important

after all, which I think the, the title of

431

: 00:23:07

the talk that, uh, that Oki has put in is

not what I called the talk, but it does.

432

: 00:23:12

It does allude to that, to do

I want to get married or not?

433

: 00:23:15

And it wasn't ever really about, I mean,

this, this story wasn't about that for me.

434

: 00:23:20

I just didn't care about marriage

and uh, that just ended up not

435

: 00:23:24

really fitting into the story.

436

: 00:23:25

So I had to pull all that stuff out.

437

: 00:23:27

So, so initially it was gonna

be a much bigger focus on

438

: 00:23:30

Brexit, the thing that sort of.

439

: 00:23:31

We got engaged on the day the

Brexit result was announced.

440

: 00:23:34

All of that stuff had to

be pulled out of the story.

441

: 00:23:36

'cause I ended up deciding that it was

more important that it was about, um,

442

: 00:23:42

my whole journey to a happy ending.

443

: 00:23:45

That being someone who was who, who

got to a point in life where they

444

: 00:23:50

believed that that couldn't be for me.

445

: 00:23:53

And having that transformation to

someone who like, not only can it

446

: 00:23:57

be for me, it is, and here it is.

447

: 00:23:59

Here's that happy ending.

448

: 00:24:00

Okay.

449

: 00:24:01

Say Happy ever after is not a fairytale.

450

: 00:24:03

Like life, life goes on, still married,

still very happy, all of that good stuff.

451

: 00:24:08

We are not talking fairytales here,

but that was, to some degree it was,

452

: 00:24:12

it was a happy ending in terms of

ending a, a conclusion of a question.

453

: 00:24:17

That was in my life of

am I allowed to be happy?

454

: 00:24:21

Am I allowed to have the

happiness and the acceptance?

455

: 00:24:25

And the joy that other people have,

that straight people have, and no

456

: 00:24:31

one questions it that often people

do question and, and even try and

457

: 00:24:36

stop for, for queer people, I.

458

: 00:24:40

And that ends up being the question that

gets asked in this story more, more than

459

: 00:24:45

anything else, which is why, which is what

led me to think, okay, well I think the

460

: 00:24:49

next thing to focus in on is that, well,

we bring my parents into that because

461

: 00:24:52

they weren't, they weren't antagonists

as much as the relationship with them

462

: 00:24:56

has been complicated over the years.

463

: 00:24:59

It is good.

464

: 00:24:59

We have a great relationship now, and it

didn't get damaged in this whole event.

465

: 00:25:04

I didn't want that to be the case, but

I recognized that there was another

466

: 00:25:07

villain to bring into the story.

467

: 00:25:09

And, she wasn't even initially

gonna be a very significant part

468

: 00:25:13

of the story, but then I recognized

that there was a deadline there.

469

: 00:25:18

Like she and I probably could have

made more of this in the story.

470

: 00:25:21

She only had a limited amount of time

to try and derail my wedding, derail and

471

: 00:25:29

to try and convince my parents that they

shouldn't attend or support the wedding.

472

: 00:25:33

And, uh, so that, so the clock

had been started and little did

473

: 00:25:38

we know, but we found out for it.

474

: 00:25:40

John Ball's screen-1: And on that day

I realized that the happy endings that

475

: 00:25:44

other people could have weren't for me.

476

: 00:25:46

I wasn't gonna get that now.

477

: 00:25:50

It took me another four years or so.

478

: 00:25:52

To get the confidence to try

coming out, uh, again, and I was at

479

: 00:25:56

university at the time and I came

out to some friends at university.

480

: 00:25:59

I'm happy to say the responses were

a bit more positive it gave me the

481

: 00:26:04

confidence to come out to my parents.

482

: 00:26:05

So I decided in the next holidays,

I would come out to my parents.

483

: 00:26:08

And when they picked me up from

the train station for the Christmas

484

: 00:26:12

holidays, they drove back to the

house and every conversation in

485

: 00:26:16

the car was about gay people.

486

: 00:26:18

Gay this, gay that.

487

: 00:26:19

Our friends sons gay and, and it wasn't

me who was starting that conversation.

488

: 00:26:22

So something was going on and we

got back to the house and I asked my

489

: 00:26:28

Mum, I said, what, what's happening?

490

: 00:26:30

What's the, what's all this

conversation about in the car?

491

: 00:26:32

That was weird.

492

: 00:26:33

she said, we know.

493

: 00:26:34

Me and your dad, we, we know, we

know you're gay and it's okay.

494

: 00:26:38

We love you.

495

: 00:26:39

I like You know, it is like, like many

queer kids, you have that fear for years

496

: 00:26:43

and years of what your parents will do

when they find out are they gonna kick

497

: 00:26:46

you out, are they gonna disown you?

498

: 00:26:48

Or, you know, the real fears for,

for many people, and mine didn't.

499

: 00:26:53

Now we've certainly had our ups and downs.

500

: 00:26:55

My dad wasn't very comfortable with it

still, and a year or so later, their

501

: 00:27:00

church got kind of infiltrated by this

weird religious cult from the US and

502

: 00:27:06

they seemed to get amnesia about their

son being gay for six to 12 months.

503

: 00:27:10

But then that went, thankfully that

went and things normalized again.

504

: 00:27:16

John: Now all that there is is very true

again and, and really it's just there to

505

: 00:27:20

give a bit of context to the relationship

with, with my parents, to give you a

506

: 00:27:24

bit of experience of these are some of

the things that actually we, we went

507

: 00:27:27

through on journey to having something

of a normal, healthy relationship.

508

: 00:27:32

So it felt like they made sense to be

there, but something, I missed something

509

: 00:27:35

out here in the talk, which was my

own fault for just, just forgetting

510

: 00:27:40

about it, that at this point I was

also going to drop in a line of that.

511

: 00:27:45

I recognized here that even with the

progress we made, I still felt that there

512

: 00:27:50

was gonna be some point in the journey

with my parents where they were probably

513

: 00:27:53

gonna have to make a decision between

the church and between their son, which

514

: 00:27:58

would've been a much stronger callback

when we come back to that later on.

515

: 00:28:01

So, no, I was a bit sad that I missed

out in the story there, but it, uh,

516

: 00:28:05

hopefully doesn't take away too much.

517

: 00:28:07

John Ball's screen-1: It wasn't perfect

and there was still a lot of work to do

518

: 00:28:12

now.

519

: 00:28:12

I think I pretty much decided at

that point that happy endings and

520

: 00:28:15

relationships probably weren't my thing.

521

: 00:28:17

Like my relationship history was

colorful at best, not very successful.

522

: 00:28:22

And that was seemed to be even

more the case when I moved to Javea

523

: 00:28:26

down the coast here and, uh, Javea.

524

: 00:28:29

But the gay scene there is like

several old retired couples

525

: 00:28:33

lived together with the same sex.

526

: 00:28:35

That's pretty much it.

527

: 00:28:36

John: Okay.

528

: 00:28:37

That joke was supposed to be

a joke and it didn't work.

529

: 00:28:40

It very flat, but it

didn't damage anything.

530

: 00:28:43

It still kept things going.

531

: 00:28:44

This is the good thing about when

you're storytelling, you don't

532

: 00:28:47

have to be the standup comedian.

533

: 00:28:48

Not everything has to be a laugh.

534

: 00:28:50

Um, we, we swept over that.

535

: 00:28:53

I think possibly people did

realize it was meant to be funny.

536

: 00:28:56

I had been playing with that

joke and hadn't found the

537

: 00:28:58

right way to make it work.

538

: 00:29:00

Uh, so it still needs a bit of work.

539

: 00:29:01

That one.

540

: 00:29:02

John Ball's screen-1: I was happy there.

541

: 00:29:03

I made some friends there.

542

: 00:29:04

Some of those friends had

special benefits as well.

543

: 00:29:07

I was like, this is I, I could

spend the rest of my years

544

: 00:29:10

like this and I'm pretty happy.

545

: 00:29:12

And then I met someone and things

happened, things blossomed, and

546

: 00:29:19

one day my parents drove by and

they saw him on the terrace of my

547

: 00:29:22

apartment and they wanted to meet him.

548

: 00:29:24

So we set up a dinner and they met him.

549

: 00:29:25

And unlike any of my other

boyfriends, they liked him.

550

: 00:29:30

were happy, conversational, they

really enjoyed getting to know him.

551

: 00:29:34

thought this is so much progress

from anything we've ever had before.

552

: 00:29:38

There's.

553

: 00:29:39

John: Now, lemme be clear, my, my

parents had been very civil with

554

: 00:29:43

previous boyfriends, but never

particularly warm or close with them.

555

: 00:29:48

So it, it, this was a big difference,

but I don't, you just can't spend

556

: 00:29:52

too much time in your story making

these distinctions or giving too much

557

: 00:29:55

clarity on this stuff that you might

do when you're less time restricted

558

: 00:30:00

or when you're really trying to, when

you're really trying to give just the

559

: 00:30:04

the essentials of the story so that

people get where we're going with

560

: 00:30:08

this and what we're talking about.

561

: 00:30:09

Um.

562

: 00:30:11

But hopefully you also see at this

point, this was the turning part

563

: 00:30:15

of the story where we start to move

into, the transformation elements.

564

: 00:30:19

Like, okay, well lots of things are

changing, things are shifting, and

565

: 00:30:23

there's a big development there of the

relationship, the new relationship.

566

: 00:30:26

The parents love him, um, I love him.

567

: 00:30:29

Uh, all these kinds of things that

start to take us on a little bit of a

568

: 00:30:33

different path to the per, to the guy who.

569

: 00:30:35

It was just kind of settling

for a few friends and friends

570

: 00:30:38

with benefits along the way.

571

: 00:30:40

Again, that joke didn't quite work the way

I was going for as well, but, uh, okay.

572

: 00:30:44

Not all about the jokes, right?

573

: 00:30:46

Um, and maybe I shouldn't have even

been going for a joke with that.

574

: 00:30:50

But, um, but that was the, that was the

changing point of the story, where it

575

: 00:30:55

moves from, okay, this guy is no longer,

um, someone who's not heading toward a

576

: 00:31:00

happy ending or, or to the happy ending

he really wants, or that other people

577

: 00:31:04

can have heading to something different.

578

: 00:31:06

Something else is going on here.

579

: 00:31:08

John Ball's screen-1: Awkward times

where they'd met previous boyfriends,

580

: 00:31:11

so I was really happy about it.

581

: 00:31:13

Our relationship continued.

582

: 00:31:14

And as things deepened, we

maybe accelerated a little

583

: 00:31:18

bit by Brexit happening.

584

: 00:31:20

We decided to get married.

585

: 00:31:23

John: So Brexit only gets a mention now,

whereas a big part of the story before.

586

: 00:31:27

John Ball's screen-1: And so on.

587

: 00:31:29

The, when I, we got started to

get married, I wanted to tell

588

: 00:31:31

all my friends, I wanted to

tell the family, and I did that.

589

: 00:31:33

And I even told my Spanish teacher our

class one day, and she was so excited.

590

: 00:31:39

She wanted to come to the wedding,

and just as we were finishing up the

591

: 00:31:42

class, a few of her friends came up.

592

: 00:31:44

Now I knew them.

593

: 00:31:45

I had done charity work

with Pete and Trish for.

594

: 00:31:48

Uh, about a year or so for a,

a food bank that they set up.

595

: 00:31:52

And so they knew who I was and Lynn

couldn't keep her mouth shut and blurted

596

: 00:31:55

out that I was getting married and their

faces dropped and it was a strange look.

597

: 00:32:01

They acted as if nothing had been said,

and then abruptly changed the subject.

598

: 00:32:06

Okay, well, I guess they're, we're

not inviting them and, uh, I've

599

: 00:32:11

had worse reactions, so, you know,

but I knew that that wasn't great.

600

: 00:32:14

But I also didn't know at the time

that an invisible fuse had been lit.

601

: 00:32:19

John: Mm-hmm.

602

: 00:32:21

Which is true and, and it really was

only looking back and thinking on it

603

: 00:32:25

that is like that as I was thinking about

this story and Lynn wasn't, my Spanish

604

: 00:32:30

teacher was not gonna be in it at all.

605

: 00:32:32

So we, but I had to bring that in.

606

: 00:32:33

'cause that whole scene where.

607

: 00:32:36

Um, Pete and Trish came into, um, my

Spanish lessons used to be in this

608

: 00:32:40

bar in, in the old town where I lived.

609

: 00:32:43

And um, and they came into the

bar and they came up to see Lynn

610

: 00:32:47

'cause they knew her really well.

611

: 00:32:48

Um, there was a whole conversation

about do I use their actual names?

612

: 00:32:51

Well, I mean, Pete's passed on.

613

: 00:32:54

So he no longer cares, I'm

sure, but Trish is still alive.

614

: 00:32:57

But it was like, well, are people

gonna be able to identify them?

615

: 00:32:59

Maybe.

616

: 00:33:00

But, there was a joke that I

cut out that seemed a bit mean.

617

: 00:33:04

something along the lines of, uh, so

this lady, let's call her Trish, because

618

: 00:33:07

she doesn't deserve an anonymity.

619

: 00:33:10

That was a line that might, some

feedback I got from, from Oki and

620

: 00:33:13

others was that it seemed like there

was still some resentment there that

621

: 00:33:17

that seemed kind of like, uh, I'm not

gonna give you her real name because she

622

: 00:33:20

doesn't, uh, she doesn't deserve better.

623

: 00:33:23

And so it's like, well, we took all

that out, but do I still use that?

624

: 00:33:25

Do I still use the real names?

625

: 00:33:27

I didn't really see any reason not to.

626

: 00:33:29

Um, it's not a way of me trying to

be vindictive or anything like that.

627

: 00:33:33

It was just, this is the story

and this is what happened.

628

: 00:33:36

And um, I don't think anyone can

really object to the situation.

629

: 00:33:40

And if anything, there's a lot

that I left out that certainly

630

: 00:33:44

made her look far worse.

631

: 00:33:45

So here we go.

632

: 00:33:48

John Ball's screen-1: And that Tricia

had decided to take it upon herself

633

: 00:33:50

to start a one woman campaign.

634

: 00:33:54

And she started going up to various

people in my parents' church

635

: 00:33:57

who she knew and taking them

aside for private conversations.

636

: 00:34:03

And my dad kind of got the sense that

something was going on, and one of

637

: 00:34:07

the ladies actually came up to him

one day and said that she had been

638

: 00:34:10

going around various people trying

to convince them that my marriage

639

: 00:34:14

was against what God wanted and that

my parents should not be supporting

640

: 00:34:19

it or even coming to my wedding.

641

: 00:34:22

And this lady

642

: 00:34:25

John: You can't see it here, but

there were shocked looks on people's

643

: 00:34:28

faces in the audience at this point.

644

: 00:34:30

John Ball's screen-1: unknown to Tricia,

had a gay daughter herself and had just

645

: 00:34:34

been to her wedding as well, so she

wasn't very happy about was going on.

646

: 00:34:41

Now, my dad did try and address the

people, and what ended up happening was

647

: 00:34:45

nobody was actually on her side, but.

648

: 00:34:48

Trisha did actually manage to

ambush my mum at a lady's coffee

649

: 00:34:51

morning, and my mum was so upset.

650

: 00:34:54

She pretty much ran outta there in tears.

651

: 00:34:57

They didn't want to tell me

'cause they were upset or worried

652

: 00:35:00

about me being upset about it.

653

: 00:35:02

I think this was the first time

my mum particularly had ever

654

: 00:35:05

encountered homophobia herself,

had a personal experience of that,

655

: 00:35:10

so it was quite intense for her.

656

: 00:35:13

But they sat me down and they told

me what had gone on and that Tricia

657

: 00:35:18

had been waging this campaign to try

and stop them attending the wedding.

658

: 00:35:22

Now, it would've done more than just

stop them attending the wedding.

659

: 00:35:25

It would've pretty much damaged

all the progress we'd made in our

660

: 00:35:28

relationship and probably irreparably as.

661

: 00:35:31

John: And the words that I'm

missing here is had she been

662

: 00:35:33

successful and kind of important.

663

: 00:35:37

So a pain that I missed that

out, but I think the message

664

: 00:35:40

still got across luckily.

665

: 00:35:42

John Ball's screen-1: As well, but I had

worried for years and years that at some

666

: 00:35:46

point my parents were gonna have to make

a choice between religion and between

667

: 00:35:50

me and that day I realized that they had

made their decision and they chosen me.

668

: 00:35:58

Mm-hmm.

669

: 00:35:59

And it was really only at my

wedding, on my wedding day looking

670

: 00:36:05

around, seeing all of my friends and

family there, that my parents were

671

: 00:36:08

really being open about who I was.

672

: 00:36:11

Everyone there was there to celebrate us

and our love that I actually got the happy

673

: 00:36:16

ending that I thought I never could have.

674

: 00:36:21

John: Okay.

675

: 00:36:22

Is that just for your information?

676

: 00:36:24

My husband was in the audience at

the time as well, came to support

677

: 00:36:28

me and, with several of our friends

as well, some of them who were

678

: 00:36:30

actually at our wedding as well.

679

: 00:36:32

And, he liked the story and certainly

there was nothing in there objectionable.

680

: 00:36:36

One of the things that I missed out, and

I'm not upset about this necessarily,

681

: 00:36:40

but at the end there was this whole

confrontational thing with Trisha, which

682

: 00:36:43

was, really where I, I faced up to her

and asked what was going on and said

683

: 00:36:48

that I was aware of what she was doing.

684

: 00:36:49

My parents had told me what she'd

said to my mom and what she'd said to

685

: 00:36:52

other people at my parents' church.

686

: 00:36:54

And she had denied everything

and they even even said, who am

687

: 00:36:58

I gonna believe her or my Mum?

688

: 00:37:00

It was like, well, my Mum obviously.

689

: 00:37:02

So, um, that seemed like a funny

bit to go in there and it was

690

: 00:37:05

kind of closure of that situation.

691

: 00:37:07

But it's closed anyway,

like she'd already lost.

692

: 00:37:11

My parents had.

693

: 00:37:12

Not chosen to go that path.

694

: 00:37:14

No one in the church had

supported that either.

695

: 00:37:17

Because I think that would've

caused, undoubtedly caused, would've

696

: 00:37:20

caused issues for my parents

as well, which it already did.

697

: 00:37:24

Even with, even with that friendship.

698

: 00:37:25

'cause she had been, her and her husband

had been friends with my parents.

699

: 00:37:29

For several years as well.

700

: 00:37:31

So undoubtedly there, there

was more good ness there.

701

: 00:37:34

But it makes me think of something.

702

: 00:37:36

When I was talking to Judy Carter,

uh, some episodes back, uh, we were

703

: 00:37:40

talking about standup comedy and, one

of the things that she says in her new

704

: 00:37:43

comedy Bible book is that even on a

open mic night where a lot of comics

705

: 00:37:50

will go up on stage with their notepad,

uh, with, you know, the, or cue cards

706

: 00:37:54

of things of jokes they've written,

she says, not maybe don't do that.

707

: 00:37:57

Maybe try and do it without

that because you're not gonna

708

: 00:38:00

necessarily remember everything.

709

: 00:38:02

But probably a lot of the stuff

that you'll end up forgetting,

710

: 00:38:05

shouldn't be in there anyway, or

doesn't need to be in there anyway.

711

: 00:38:08

So take a walk and practice your talk or

your, your, your routine or your bit in

712

: 00:38:13

your head, uh, whilst you're walking, but

without the cue cards, without the notes.

713

: 00:38:17

Because if you forget those bits,

then you do have to question,

714

: 00:38:21

do they belong there anyway?

715

: 00:38:22

Can the story still work without them?

716

: 00:38:24

So as much as I think when I, when I had

finished the story, I was like, oh yeah,

717

: 00:38:27

I missed that out, watching it back.

718

: 00:38:30

I, I see that it probably

doesn't need to be there.

719

: 00:38:33

I'm not sure it really adds enough to, to

stick it back in if I tell that, should

720

: 00:38:38

I tell that story again in the future?

721

: 00:38:41

But the conclusion is that, well,

where, where do we land with this story?

722

: 00:38:45

And that's what we have to think about.

723

: 00:38:46

Where do we land?

724

: 00:38:47

Someone who is being, to some degree

barred from having a happy ending in

725

: 00:38:52

their life, to , a happy love life story.

726

: 00:38:56

Discovers that that's no longer the case,

and that that is actually available.

727

: 00:39:00

And, not only is it possible,

but it's actually happened.

728

: 00:39:04

So this is why I felt it was important

that the end scene was the wedding,

729

: 00:39:08

that the decision had been made.

730

: 00:39:09

The, the, the wedding was

there, the family were there,

731

: 00:39:12

and my parents were there.

732

: 00:39:14

Um, no longer caring about

what people thought about them.

733

: 00:39:17

Um, fully accepting, fully open, like the

whole family there, my family, his family,

734

: 00:39:23

all there supporting us and, and just

feeling love and family and connection.

735

: 00:39:28

Um, these are all things, all things that

I just thought were never gonna happen.

736

: 00:39:33

So hopefully that gives you a good

understanding of how this story

737

: 00:39:37

came together and maybe some of the

challenges of creating it, and also some

738

: 00:39:42

of the things that maybe didn't go as

perfectly as they could of on the night.

739

: 00:39:46

Uh, I will be going back to.

740

: 00:39:47

Collect my award for top raconteur

of the night at the next story

741

: 00:39:52

event and I will be telling a

short opening story there as well.

742

: 00:39:56

I'll record that too and I'll share

that with you near the time as well.

743

: 00:40:02

But let's, but let's close things off

there if you haven't already checked out

744

: 00:40:05

my episode with Keith Kong from this week.

745

: 00:40:08

Uh, Keith is a famous mentalist winner

of Penn and Teller's Fool Me Show.

746

: 00:40:13

If you've ever seen that TV show

with Penn and Teller, um, Keith

747

: 00:40:16

won that show with his mentalism.

748

: 00:40:19

He's that good.

749

: 00:40:20

He's, he's won other accolades as well.

750

: 00:40:23

He's performed in all

sorts of wonderful places.

751

: 00:40:26

He's got lots of exciting things coming

up, but he shared some great insights

752

: 00:40:30

into how Mentalism works, how he

constructs his acts for engagement and

753

: 00:40:36

flow and excitement, and making sure

that his performances are memorable.

754

: 00:40:41

All stuff that, you know, you

don't need to be a mentalist or

755

: 00:40:44

a comedian to make this work.

756

: 00:40:45

This is stuff that's really

valuable for speakers and

757

: 00:40:47

communicators, so go and watch that.

758

: 00:40:49

It's already one of my most downloaded

complete episodes on YouTube.

759

: 00:40:53

I would say it's probably one of the

top episodes I've put out recently

760

: 00:40:57

that within, within 24 hours of

publishing, um, it has more downloads

761

: 00:41:02

than just about any other full length

interview video that I've put out there.

762

: 00:41:06

So I do reckon that's worth

going and checking out as well.

763

: 00:41:10

The link to the YouTube video

will be available to you as well.

764

: 00:41:12

Or just come and search for

present influence on YouTube.

765

: 00:41:15

You'll see the channel is there as well

as lots of other videos and shorts.

766

: 00:41:19

Make sure you subscribe, leave some

comments and likes and, uh, 'cause that

767

: 00:41:24

helps other people to find it as well.

768

: 00:41:26

And come and join me next time.

769

: 00:41:27

I, I haven't yet decided.

770

: 00:41:29

Which interview I'm gonna be bringing to

you next week, because there are sometimes

771

: 00:41:35

shows that get recorded that don't make

it to publication, and the decision is

772

: 00:41:40

always one of, would I listen to that.

773

: 00:41:43

If I was in your position as the listener

to this show, would I listen to that?

774

: 00:41:48

And that's the decision I make.

775

: 00:41:49

So I will be playing back some of

these episodes that I have in the

776

: 00:41:53

bank this weekend and deciding

which one is the right next

777

: 00:41:57

episode to bring to you next week.

778

: 00:41:59

So I hope you'll come

and join me for that.

779

: 00:42:00

I will make sure it's a good one for you.

780

: 00:42:03

I am lining up some new guests,

bringing back hopefully an amazing

781

: 00:42:08

guest as well, who's been on the show

a couple of times, friend of the show.

782

: 00:42:12

Um, we will be bringing him back.

783

: 00:42:13

I'll announce that near the time

once we've recorded and, um.

784

: 00:42:17

Certainly, but again, another one of my

most downloaded guests ever having been

785

: 00:42:23

on the show, so you won't wanna miss it.

786

: 00:42:25

All right, so if you're not already

subscribed to the show, please make

787

: 00:42:27

sure you're following me on your

podcast app or on YouTube and, wherever

788

: 00:42:32

you're going, whatever you're doing,

have an amazing rest of your day.

789

: 00:42:35

Hey, follow Oki as well.

790

: 00:42:36

Follow En Route storytelling.

791

: 00:42:38

Go and check out some of the other

stories from that night and other

792

: 00:42:40

nights for the on reach storytelling.

793

: 00:42:42

And if you're in the Valencia,

Madrid, or Barcelona areas.

794

: 00:42:47

Where Oki is doing these events and

workshops do go and check them out.

795

: 00:42:51

They're very cheap to

attend, and a lot of fun.

796

: 00:42:54

And at the very least, you're gonna

hear some amazing stories and maybe get

797

: 00:42:57

to tell some amazing stories as well.

798

: 00:43:00

Wherever you're going, whatever you're

doing, have an amazing rest of your day.

799

: 00:43:03

We'll see you next time.

800

: 00:43:04

Bye-bye.