Why You’re Not Getting Booked as a Speaker Even in a High-Demand Hot Topic (Real Coaching Session)

John: 00:00:00

A hot market can still leave you with a cold inbox.

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I've had many speakers come up to

me before now and say that they

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want to speak in the hot area.

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They'll speak on anything and

go wherever the money is, and

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it's really a terrible idea.

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You'd always have to be changing

your topic and reestablishing

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yourself in new areas, but also.

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It really isn't going to be

the thing that gets you booked.

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I've been promising for a while

that I was gonna bring you some

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new coaching sessions, and this

session was with Courtney Harding,

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who speaks in the AI sector now.

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She's undoubtedly an

expert in what she does.

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She has great proficiency.

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She's been speaking.

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But the calendar's not really

reflecting how good she is and

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how much she can help people.

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And we wanted to try and get

to the bottom of why now.

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I think we started to dig into some of

the key elements here in this recording,

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and you'll get some of that too.

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What you might also get here is that

it's easy to become too technical

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about what you're doing and think that

every input should equal an output for

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you, and that's not always the case.

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So you're gonna hear us diagnosed

why credibility signals don't create

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demand, how to position around the

expensive problem that you solve.

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The outreach simplification that

beats post and then pray and what

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to prioritize when you're feeling

permanently stuck in launch mode, throwing

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all the spaghetti against the wall.

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At the end of the episode, you'll get to

walk away with a clearer message and a

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simpler plan to get booked, even when you

are not the most famous name in the space.

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And if you'd like to be coached

on the show for free, you can find

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out how at the end of the episode.

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Welcome to Professional Speaking the

show for speakers who want to master

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their craft book more gigs and are

ready to treat speaking like a business.

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Well, it's very nice to have

Courtney Harding with me today.

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And Courtney, we are gonna have

a bit of a coaching session.

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You are a speaker right now, and

you're speaking in the AI space.

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Can, can you just give a little clarity

about what your speaking looks like and,

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and maybe what your goal is as a speaker?

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Cortney Harding: Yeah, so I'm in the AI

space, but I'm also in other emerging

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technology spaces, and that's one thing

that really sets me apart from other

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speakers is the fact that I have a deep

background in virtual reality, augmented

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reality, and now the smart glasses space.

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So while I focus on ai, because I

think AI is a, it's a hot topic,

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and B, it's a topic that touches

all these other technologies.

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My real focus in differentiator is

my deep background in the spatial

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computing and immersive space.

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John: okay.

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Cortney Harding: And I'm

really focused this year on.

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Building my speaking practice, building

a consulting practice, and building

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it to be more of a revenue stream

as opposed to what it has been in

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the past for me, which is more of

a biz dev stream or side project.

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which has been a lot of fun.

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But I really wanna shift that to

something where it's actually incoming as

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opposed to kind of theoretical revenue.

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John: Okay, so, so let's just

get a, a ballpark at least, of

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what success as a speaker would

look like for you at the moment.

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Like, what sort of, fee bracket

would you like to be in?

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How many gigs would you like to

be doing on a, on a monthly basis?

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Cortney Harding: So, I think a

good feed bracket for me right

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now would be between 10 and 15 k.

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Obviously I'd like to get that higher

at some point, but I think given the

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market right now, I think that's a

fairly reasonable fee and I've done some

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research into that and two to three gigs

a month I think would be reasonable.

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I offer everything from your basic in and

out keynote to much larger initiatives.

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So a lot of what I've done in the past

has been workshops and consulting,

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so figuring out how to use the

keynote as the jumping off point.

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And then from there, building in

larger engagements where I'm actually

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embedded with a company, embedded

with a client, helping them solve real

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problems and helping them build things.

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John: Right.

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And so the journey to, the

journey to this so far has not

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been going quite as planned.

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So what, what do you feel

isn't working for you?

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What's the challenge for you right now?

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Cortney Harding: So, I think the

challenge right now is the sort

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of last mile challenge, which

is I have a lot of content.

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I have a really strong network, I

have a really strong background.

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I have the names and the awards

and the accolades and the, the,

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this, that and the other, but.

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What I have not managed to do successfully

is create a flywheel of opportunities,

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so I'm getting towards that.

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I think now the last couple talks

I've done have led to other talks

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and other opportunities, which is

great, but the flywheel is not perhaps

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advancing as fast as I would like it to.

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John: Okay, so I, I have had an

opportunity to look through some

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of your material and through the

website and, and what you talk about,

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and we have spoken before as well.

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So for, for the audience benefit, I, I

guess to some degree as well, what is,

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what would you brand yourself as, like you

say, you know, you are in the AI space,

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what's your branding within that space?

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What would, why would people come to

you specifically for, for speaking?

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Cortney Harding: So one thing that I'm

doing right now is actually while I am

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working with ai, I'm kind of changing that

a little bit because I think in this last

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year I realized the AI space is incredibly

crowded and there's a lot of people

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who are kind of the same, same thing.

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And it's a space that is, I think, harder

for me to compete in, even though I

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do have deep background in that space.

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So I'm pivoting a little bit to

focus more on spatial computing,

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smart glasses, and AI within that.

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I think that's where I see the strong

brand for myself and the differentiating

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factor is you can book people all day

long to talk just about AI and that

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specific things within ai, but the idea

of somebody who's talking about AI and

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spatial computing and smart glasses,

the research that I've done, I haven't

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seen as many of those people and many

of the people that you talk about that

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are affiliated with large companies,

so there's a bias there, right?

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There's always gonna be, if you're

speaking on behalf of Meta, you are.

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The meta party line or HSE

or fill in the blank company.

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Whereas if you are an independent

person like myself, a consultant,

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then you can give something that is

unbiased and a little bit broader.

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So that's the pivot that

I'm doing right now.

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I am updating all of my content to

reflect that right now because I do think

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last year one thing that held me back

is the branding was a little confused.

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Well, again, I have great case

studies and I have great talks.

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they might not have been as

differentiated as they perhaps

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could have or should have been.

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John: Yeah.

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One thing that I would still want to

dig into a little more deeply here is,

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what, what are the real benefits for

your audiences, for your clients when

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they book you like, what problems are

you solving for them with your talks?

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Cortney Harding: Sure.

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So the main problem is many clients

do not understand the framework that

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I have when it comes to technology.

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So my belief is that technology should

always be the last thing you consider,

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not the first thing you consider.

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And I've done a lot of podcasts recently

where I've spoken about this, and it's

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a big core function of my book as well.

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So the problem that I'm solving and the

differentiator with what I'm talking

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about is I'm offering a solution

oriented framework for clients and

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for people that are in the talk.

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So a lot of companies right now

are focusing on technology first,

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when they should be focusing

on problem solving first.

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And this is something that I

have a lot of experience with

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helping clients understand this.

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So the model that I have is really.

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Put the technology aside for a second.

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Understand what is the problem

that you are trying to solve, then

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understand why it's a problem.

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And I think a lot of

companies skip this step.

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Then go to, okay, how can

we use this technology?

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Can we, and then how can we use this

technology to solve the problem?

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And then how can we scale it?

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Right?

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So it's kind of a four step process

because what I see time and time

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again is companies kind of rush in

and they say, we need to do ai, and

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then they kind of back in, right?

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So they.

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They don't start with the idea that

like, this is a technology that

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will be transformative, or is this

technology that will solve problems?

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They're just like, okay, we'll sign up

for copilot and then people can use it to,

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record their meetings or whatever, which

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John: Yeah.

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Cortney Harding: fine I guess.

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But they're starting with the

technology, not with the problem.

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So that's where I come in and I walk

them through this framework and help them

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understand it's not just about tech, it's

about fundamentally understanding how

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you can solve problems using technology.

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And that's something that I have

a really deep background in.

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John: Yeah.

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So I think maybe what, what's missing

for me in, in what you just said there

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is like, how is that a problem for them?

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That they're getting into the, the tech

first before solving this for false.

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Solving the problem, like

where is that causing issues?

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Cortney Harding: Because they're

spending a lot of money and not

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getting a lot of return on investment.

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So for example, there's research

out of MIT that 95% of corporate gen

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AI projects are failing right now.

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Right?

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That's a lot of money, that's

a lot of time, that's a lot of

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resources for a company to, to lose.

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Right?

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when I was working in virtual

reality, a lot of it was

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about, again, problem solving.

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Looking at what.

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Bad training was costing, and

how much better training in

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this case in VR could help.

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So I had projects with 92% performance

improvement and 30% decrease in turnover.

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And all of that has real

revenue attached to it.

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If you are not constantly having

to deal with turnover, hiring new

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people, recruiting new people,

training new people, et cetera, that

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will save your organization money.

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So.

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There's not, it's not just a theoretical,

oh, we should be doing better.

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There's actual costs associated

with having projects that that

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don't work or solve problems.

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John: Okay, great.

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So if you were to put this to, to

sum this up into a sentence that

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would go along this framework, it

would be, I help these people to

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solve or do this so that they can.

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What would that be for you?

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I help these people do this

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Cortney Harding: I hope.

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John: they can.

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Cortney Harding: Yeah, sure.

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I help people use technology to solve

problems so that they can save money

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and have greater employee satisfaction.

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John: Yeah, because I, because I think

there's potentially more, more power

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on that to, to really hit the, the

pain points of, like, I help, I help

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companies stop losing money or stop

wasting money on technology by giving

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them a framework that helps them, put.

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Problems.

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Or problems or people first or, or

something or more along those lines,

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do you the straightaway it's like, this

is the problem you have, these are, I'm

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helping people who've got this problem

so that they can get this outcome.

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Cortney Harding: Yeah, no,

I think that's, that's good.

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I mean, and then I, I would narrow it from

there because again, I'm not, I don't,

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I don't want it to be super generic.

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Right.

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John: Sure.

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Cortney Harding: and, and I think there's

a lot of problems that I don't know

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how to solve, to be totally honest.

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But I think focusing it on.

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Using this technology, using this frontier

technology to solve those problems is I

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think where the differentiator comes in.

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And that's pretty strong.

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John: Yeah.

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I, I think the, the, how somewhat matters

less than the what at this, at this point.

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So it's like at this point, they

don't even really need to know

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that you've got a framework.

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They just need to know you are the person

we go to if the, if we've got this issue.

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Cortney Harding: Right.

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John: And so what, what

will you do for us?

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We know we've got this problem.

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We don't want to have this problem.

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We would like to, make the, make the

right technology work at the right time.

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So we, we need to be clear on that.

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And that doesn't mean you can't then

say, oh, well actually, there's a

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few other topics that I speak around

as well, or workshops that I have

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that might still be valuable to you.

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But it is having that clarity for them

of all, right, yeah, we don't want to

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lose money, we don't wanna waste money.

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Or maybe we have been wasting

money on certain technologies.

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Just saying, all right, as you say,

you have to get Ai AI in right now

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because everyone else is doing it,

but they don't know why they're

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doing it or how to implement it

the right way is like the, the.

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Greater benefits from that.

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They don't need to know

all of that right now.

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They just need to know,

I've got a headache.

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You've got the, the, the, the aspirin.

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Exactly.

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So, that, that sort of wears at, I think

you get, get that clear that's gonna help

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your branding and your messaging a lot.

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And it doesn't mean that you can't still.

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Talk and workshop around those sort

of areas in that category as well.

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It just means this is the main thing,

this is the, the main area of it, and

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that's what people probably, at least

initially are most gonna seek you out for.

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You become known for that.

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Cortney Harding: So I guess

the follow on to that would be.

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How do I, so I have a

lot of platforms, right?

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How do I use these platforms to

the best of my ability, I guess.

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So I feel like I put a lot of content

out into the universe, and I'm not sure

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whether it is the type of content that

I'm putting out or the platforms that I'm

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using or the messaging, but it doesn't

seem to convert in a meaningful way.

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And what I've done and perhaps

should not have done as much is

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I, there are people who are, say.

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Two steps ahead of me.

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Right.

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Many of them, I, I know many

of them I'm friendly with.

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and I kind of can look

to what they're doing.

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And so I've, I've used them as models and

I've done a lot of like comparisons and,

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watch the way that they have done it and

kind of tried to, see that as a success.

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But I, I don't know what it is, but

for some reason, I'm, I'm kind of

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looking at what they're doing and I'm.

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Mimicking what they're doing

just in terms of like my outreach

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strategy, but that doesn't seem

to be converting in the same way.

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John: Okay.

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So, so this, here's a question

that's more about how you feel than

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anything else, but, do you feel

that even though you have launched,

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that you're still in launch phase?

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Or do you feel that you are past that,

or that you at least should be past that?

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Cortney Harding: Oh, I'm

permanently in launch space.

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John: Right.

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Cortney Harding: I mean,

I, here's the thing.

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I.

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I have always been of the mind

that you do 10 things, and if none

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of those work, you do 10 more.

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And if none of those work, you do 10 more.

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And right now, I've done

10,000 things, but I'm

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John: is spaghetti against the wall?

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Yeah.

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Cortney Harding: Yeah,

no, I have, I have thrown

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Italy.

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I've thrown Italy's entire

source of pasta against the wall.

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Right.

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And it has not, so I keep

throwing pasta against the wall.

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And, so I'm constant, like

I, last year I, wrote a book.

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It's come out, it came

out an academic publisher.

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It's gotten very good reviews.

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It has sold reasonably

well for, for a book.

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That is what it is.

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that was not the thing.

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Right.

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I have spoken at Davos.

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I've spoken at the World

Economic Forums, events.

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I have spoken at Stanford

Law School last year.

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Uh, et cetera, et cetera,

et cetera, et cetera.

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all a lot of fun didn't get me

to where I need to be, right?

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So I'm constantly, like

I, I got a speaker reel.

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I spent a lot of time on it.

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I spent, to be fair, a lot of money on it.

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I think it turned out well enough, like,

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John: Yeah.

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I've watched it.

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Yeah, definitely.

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Cortney Harding: But so that's the thing.

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So I'm constantly launch mode

because the only thing that will get

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: 00:15:44

me out of launch mode is actually

launching, which I have yet to do.

307

: 00:15:48

John: and so I'm sure you must be

feeling very frustrated with all the

308

: 00:15:52

things that you have been doing that

just haven't really been panning out.

309

: 00:15:55

there's, there's so many directions

we could go, but I think the one

310

: 00:15:58

that would matter the most of

it to you right now is having a

311

: 00:16:02

reliable way to get more bookings.

312

: 00:16:05

Cortney Harding: Yeah, a

313

: 00:16:06

John: What's your main, what's your

main way of getting bookings right now?

314

: 00:16:11

Cortney Harding: A lot

of it is incoming, which.

315

: 00:16:14

Is nice, but it's also very random, right?

316

: 00:16:16

I cannot guarantee the incoming,

I have been pitching a lot, so I

317

: 00:16:23

try to send like 10 pitches a day.

318

: 00:16:25

I do strategic pitches, so it's not just

kind of like, Hey, book me to speak.

319

: 00:16:29

What I will do is I will use one of

my outlets, like my Forbes column.

320

: 00:16:33

I will write a Forbes column specifically

around a topic, and then I will from

321

: 00:16:37

there, pick the 10 people that are.

322

: 00:16:39

I'm most interested in the topic.

323

: 00:16:40

I'll send them the column.

324

: 00:16:41

I'll send them an invitation to chat more.

325

: 00:16:43

I'll kind of send 'em

information about me.

326

: 00:16:45

I have relationships at

Fortune one hundreds.

327

: 00:16:48

I have relationships at big consultancies.

328

: 00:16:51

I've done work with a lot of

them, so I'm using those networks.

329

: 00:16:55

And then again, I do have, my other

networks as well, my professional

330

: 00:16:57

networks that I have used, but that,

again, has not really converted.

331

: 00:17:04

John: Yeah.

332

: 00:17:05

Okay.

333

: 00:17:05

And, and I think one of the reasons

why that might be the case, I, I'm

334

: 00:17:10

not saying this definitively, but

one of the reasons why it might be is

335

: 00:17:13

that you might be overdoing it, you

might be overthinking the strategy.

336

: 00:17:17

So I'd like to share with you a much

simpler strategy that if you've tried

337

: 00:17:22

this, if you have tried this, then

please do just say to me you tried this.

338

: 00:17:26

But it is generally effective and it

is one that I use and that the speakers

339

: 00:17:30

that I work with generally use as well.

340

: 00:17:32

That, one thing is to start finding

the places where you want to speak.

341

: 00:17:35

Now, this could be that you go through

at least, at least initially, the places

342

: 00:17:39

where you have spoken and reach back out

343

: 00:17:42

Cortney Harding: Done that,

344

: 00:17:43

John: yeah.

345

: 00:17:43

To get booked there.

346

: 00:17:44

But if.

347

: 00:17:45

Cortney Harding: I've, I've also,

before you go too far, I'll just

348

: 00:17:47

tell you what I also have done.

349

: 00:17:49

So I've, I've reached out to every place

I've spoken in the past, multiple times.

350

: 00:17:53

I have, put together a list of

I think 50 to 60 conferences in

351

: 00:17:58

places that I wanted to speak.

352

: 00:17:59

I've pitched all of them.

353

: 00:18:01

I got nothing except for a bunch of spam.

354

: 00:18:03

So, conferences love to write back

and say, Hey, pay us to speak,

355

: 00:18:06

which, no, that's unethical.

356

: 00:18:09

Buzz off.

357

: 00:18:10

I won't say what I actually

would wanna say to them.

358

: 00:18:11

So I've found a bunch of pay to play,

pay to play slot, which, yeah, not great.

359

: 00:18:16

or they just add me to their spam

lists, which again, not great.

360

: 00:18:20

Right.

361

: 00:18:21

Kind of unethical as well.

362

: 00:18:22

so yeah, I have reached out to,

and I've also reached out to

363

: 00:18:24

the companies I wanna speak at.

364

: 00:18:26

So I have pitched.

365

: 00:18:28

Most, if not all of them.

366

: 00:18:30

the one place I have not tried is like

professional organizations, but if, I

367

: 00:18:34

mean, and if you think that's worthwhile,

happy to, to try that as well, but I just

368

: 00:18:38

wanna give you a sense of like what I have

369

: 00:18:39

John: No, I appreciate that.

370

: 00:18:40

And, will, I will say

this about conferences.

371

: 00:18:43

Conferences generally are only

really going to pay speakers who

372

: 00:18:47

are already established names.

373

: 00:18:49

Everyone, everyone else, they might

bring you in for, they might bring you,

374

: 00:18:54

bring you in for a workshop or, or a

set, you can run a session for them,

375

: 00:18:58

but they're generally not gonna book

you as a paid speaker or those events

376

: 00:19:02

when they, what they want is a big name.

377

: 00:19:05

If you don't have that yet, then that's

not the best avenue for most people

378

: 00:19:10

to even try and get started with.

379

: 00:19:12

some, sometimes it can work,

but a breakout or a workshop

380

: 00:19:16

is possibly the best you'll do.

381

: 00:19:17

And you might in some cases get a per

diem, but as you've experienced, sometimes

382

: 00:19:21

you'd also be asked to pay them to speak

at their event because they think they're

383

: 00:19:26

doing you the favor, getting you in

front of other people who might book you.

384

: 00:19:29

What generally works better is to

approach, approach individual companies,

385

: 00:19:35

corporations, organizations who are

always organizing their own speaking

386

: 00:19:40

events, and initially just reach

out with a, with, with a question.

387

: 00:19:44

A one simple question, which is,

if you don't already know, who is

388

: 00:19:48

the person who books your speakers

for your events, or if you.

389

: 00:19:54

Cool.

390

: 00:19:54

And if you know that, then you

just asked the question, are you

391

: 00:19:58

the person you, are you the person

who books speakers for rent?

392

: 00:20:02

Because all you're really

looking for, there is a response.

393

: 00:20:05

And the reason why we keep it that

simple is you are either gonna

394

: 00:20:08

get a response or you are not.

395

: 00:20:10

But that is also then where people

are gonna go into your CRM to like,

396

: 00:20:14

'cause no doesn't mean no, it means

maybe not right now, or maybe you've

397

: 00:20:17

been too busy, or maybe just your, your

email got lost in the pile somewhere.

398

: 00:20:22

It means you follow up,

a week, two weeks later.

399

: 00:20:25

I'd probably give it a couple of weeks.

400

: 00:20:27

And you keep.

401

: 00:20:28

Following up with these places

where you want to speak, but again,

402

: 00:20:30

just the simple, simple questions

that are easy to respond to.

403

: 00:20:34

'cause either they are the person

you need to speak to or they're not

404

: 00:20:38

the person you need to speak to.

405

: 00:20:39

And if they reply saying they're

not, you can just reply saying,

406

: 00:20:43

okay, who is, who is the person who

I would need to speak to about this?

407

: 00:20:47

'cause your goal is to

get on a call with them.

408

: 00:20:51

Ultimately to get on a call with them,

not to, not to be sending them over all

409

: 00:20:55

your information or articles or websites

or anything like that at this stage.

410

: 00:20:59

Just to find out if they've got events

and they're looking for speakers.

411

: 00:21:02

Right now, you want to be in

the pile and be considered, but

412

: 00:21:07

this is then, this is the cool.

413

: 00:21:12

Cortney Harding: I've done that for

the, for, I've done that for hundreds of

414

: 00:21:15

companies and I've gotten zero response.

415

: 00:21:17

I've gotten like one or two responses.

416

: 00:21:19

But, I've done that exact question,

and what I'll get back is mostly

417

: 00:21:23

nothing or something to the effect

of, I don't know, we're like, I, I

418

: 00:21:26

reached out to somebody yesterday at

a big consulting firm, and this was

419

: 00:21:29

somebody who I, who I have met, who I'm

in a professional organization with.

420

: 00:21:32

This wasn't just a rando, ask

because random asks never get

421

: 00:21:35

anywhere for the most part.

422

: 00:21:36

this is somebody who I have a, a

line of connection into and the

423

: 00:21:40

response was, I dunno, we're a big

company, but I'll let you know.

424

: 00:21:43

And I was just like, okay.

425

: 00:21:45

I was like, at that point, you might

as well have just said nothing.

426

: 00:21:47

I'm sorry, but like, yeah, I

have, I mean, I, I, I, I, I don't

427

: 00:21:52

wanna come across as negative,

but like, kind of have done that.

428

: 00:21:56

I, maybe it's like the organizations

I'm pitching are too big, or

429

: 00:22:00

maybe there's like another type

of organization I should be

430

: 00:22:03

John: may, it may be that, look, the, the,

this is the, the reality of it is that

431

: 00:22:08

at this stage in the game with not being

the known, as known as you would like to

432

: 00:22:13

be as a speaker at the moment, you are

playing, you're playing the numbers game.

433

: 00:22:17

And, and that really does mean, reaching

out to as many places as possible.

434

: 00:22:21

And if you're not getting responses

from one particular industry.

435

: 00:22:24

What other industries could

you be relevant to that you

436

: 00:22:27

could start pitching to?

437

: 00:22:28

and you can start finding those sorts

of people with, and whether, whether

438

: 00:22:33

that's through connections or contacts

you have, or from, searching on Google

439

: 00:22:37

or LinkedIn Sales Navigator or any

other sort of, tool or even open.

440

: 00:22:42

Buying lists, although it's not

always the most helpful way to go.

441

: 00:22:45

but getting those prospects, ultimately

you are playing, you are playing

442

: 00:22:49

the numbers game, but it, but also

you're not playing a one and done.

443

: 00:22:53

It's, it's like you not getting a

response is, is also, is like, this

444

: 00:22:57

is where your CRM is gonna be become.

445

: 00:23:00

Incredibly valuable to you, where you

follow up a few weeks later and then

446

: 00:23:05

you follow up maybe a month after

that if you don't hear back and, and

447

: 00:23:09

that you keep going there, at least

your goal is just to get a response.

448

: 00:23:13

Cortney Harding: Yeah, totally.

449

: 00:23:14

John: And, and if your response, if

the response is, I don't know, you,

450

: 00:23:18

my first, my first thing is this.

451

: 00:23:20

If somebody responds and their

email, their, their phone number is

452

: 00:23:24

in the email, I'm gonna call them.

453

: 00:23:27

And the reason I'm gonna do that is

because then I'm not just, know, not

454

: 00:23:31

just in the ether of the internet,

then I'm a voice, then I'm a person.

455

: 00:23:35

And so I'm gonna go, oh, hey, look, I

really appreciate you responding to me.

456

: 00:23:39

how can I find out how, how

can I find out who the right

457

: 00:23:42

person is for me to speak to?

458

: 00:23:44

You've, you've already massively

increased the chances of them finding that

459

: 00:23:49

person for you and getting back to you.

460

: 00:23:51

Cortney Harding: Sure.

461

: 00:23:51

Yeah, that's a good idea.

462

: 00:23:52

John: get on them, if you can

actually get on the call with them.

463

: 00:23:55

But, consider, consider

that to be your main thing.

464

: 00:23:57

It's always to get a response if you

are just finding that anything you're

465

: 00:24:00

putting out is not getting responses,

it might be that there is, like you

466

: 00:24:05

said, there's a lot of competition

in this space right now that a lot

467

: 00:24:08

of other speakers are targeting.

468

: 00:24:10

Exactly the same places.

469

: 00:24:12

And that could be why someone

are saying, oh, it's not really

470

: 00:24:15

worth me even replying to you.

471

: 00:24:17

But you may have to then find

another hunting niche to start to

472

: 00:24:21

build up your speaking business.

473

: 00:24:23

But they are out there

and, and they do work.

474

: 00:24:26

So this is, this is the

most reliable strategy.

475

: 00:24:30

That you can ultimately get into and,

and I think it's, it's gonna be not

476

: 00:24:35

just finding the company names, but

doing that little bit of searching for,

477

: 00:24:40

you probably want companies that fit

into specific brackets that have at

478

: 00:24:43

least certain amount of, they're doing

certain amount of turnover, maybe have

479

: 00:24:46

a certain amount of employees that are

more likely to be having events, their

480

: 00:24:51

own internal events, or maybe even,

481

: 00:24:53

Big, bigger events where they might

be looking at least for speakers, for

482

: 00:24:57

breakouts, for workshops, or whether

there's maybe stuff that you could

483

: 00:25:00

offer them that would be valuable to

them, even outside of their events.

484

: 00:25:04

Maybe there's consulting or Workshops that

you could do for them, that you might say,

485

: 00:25:08

well, we don't need an event for that.

486

: 00:25:09

We're just bringing you in to do that.

487

: 00:25:11

That's where your, your abstracts,

your, your speaker sheets are gonna

488

: 00:25:15

become most valuable because that's

where then it's gonna say, right.

489

: 00:25:20

If you can be then clear on, is this

a problem that you have, this is

490

: 00:25:24

something that I work with people and

this is something I help people solve.

491

: 00:25:27

They don't need to know

how you do that right now.

492

: 00:25:29

They just need to know, all right, yeah,

we have that issue, or we are, are.

493

: 00:25:33

Company has that issue.

494

: 00:25:34

We would value having someone

like you come in and speak on it.

495

: 00:25:39

So I think it is definitely a stick

to that kind of strategy, but it's

496

: 00:25:43

also gonna make it a bit easier if

you feel like if you don't, if you're

497

: 00:25:47

not trying to do all the things.

498

: 00:25:50

Because all the things

won't get you the results.

499

: 00:25:52

this is probably the thing that will get

you the most results, at least at this

500

: 00:25:56

stage, because then when you do go in

as well, having the book, great, you can

501

: 00:26:01

potentially increase some of your speaker

feess with that by offering them the book.

502

: 00:26:06

When they do look to book you

as like, maybe ask them what

503

: 00:26:09

else is going on, or say,

504

: 00:26:11

Would you be interested in having

my book for the people in the event?

505

: 00:26:15

You then increased your speaker fee

by selling them the books as well.

506

: 00:26:18

'cause they usually have different

budgets for those kinds of things.

507

: 00:26:21

So these, these are really

important things to think about.

508

: 00:26:23

But ultimately is, is.

509

: 00:26:25

Finding the right way into the industry

that is solving enough of a pain

510

: 00:26:29

point that they're gonna book you.

511

: 00:26:31

but also enough responsiveness from

the industry that you're getting

512

: 00:26:35

the kinds of bookings that you want,

because then it is just playing

513

: 00:26:38

that numbers game and spending.

514

: 00:26:41

Pretty much whatever time you can spend

each day on your prospecting, whether

515

: 00:26:46

that's new prospects or following up

with people you've already reached out to

516

: 00:26:49

before, connect connecting with referrals

that you've had before, connecting

517

: 00:26:53

with whoever else in the industry you

already have that's gonna get you far

518

: 00:26:57

more results than pretty much anything

else that you're doing when it comes

519

: 00:27:02

to getting booked for speaking gigs.

520

: 00:27:03

Cortney Harding: Okay.

521

: 00:27:04

So, okay, so that's good.

522

: 00:27:07

So I feel like what I'm kind of hearing

is I should deprioritize a lot of

523

: 00:27:10

the other stuff that I'm doing and

focus on just kind of the sales stuff.

524

: 00:27:18

John: Yeah, I would say you can

afford, you could afford to simplify.

525

: 00:27:21

It is gonna make your life a lot

easier, and it's also going to lessen

526

: 00:27:25

that feeling of frustration that

you're doing so much and you're not

527

: 00:27:28

really seeing the results from it.

528

: 00:27:30

If you're doing one, if you're doing

more one focus thing, which is like a.

529

: 00:27:34

What we call a power hour, where you

are focused on your prospecting and

530

: 00:27:37

managing your CRM, can make sure you were

checked in with the people that you have

531

: 00:27:41

previously either spoken at or mostly

spoken at, or people you connected with.

532

: 00:27:46

Keeping on top of all of that and

managing all of that is gonna be a

533

: 00:27:49

much more effective long-term strategy.

534

: 00:27:52

And it, it means that as well.

535

: 00:27:55

I'm saying it doesn't mean you

don't do any of the other things.

536

: 00:27:57

You do them if you want to, but.

537

: 00:28:00

When you are a bit more known or

when you're getting like the speaking

538

: 00:28:03

events that you want to be getting or

they're getting the kind of, buzz and

539

: 00:28:05

reputation in the industry, things

will start to take on a bit more of

540

: 00:28:09

a life of their own at the moment.

541

: 00:28:11

But right now it's, in this stage of the

business, it is playing that numbers game.

542

: 00:28:16

Cortney Harding: Yeah, so sort

of a follow on question to that.

543

: 00:28:19

do, do names matter because.

544

: 00:28:26

I was sort of always, I always had this

notion, and I could be very wrong, that

545

: 00:28:31

sort of these big prestige brands were

of interest to people would move the

546

: 00:28:36

needle, people would care about them.

547

: 00:28:40

I have found that that is not the case.

548

: 00:28:42

but I'm curious to hear

your thoughts on it.

549

: 00:28:44

John: it looks nice on your website, and,

and it does, it does help to establish

550

: 00:28:48

your, your trust and credibility.

551

: 00:28:49

But, here's the thing.

552

: 00:28:51

People, people don't

really care about that.

553

: 00:28:53

Cortney Harding: Yeah.

554

: 00:28:54

John: they don't, they don't

care about, they don't really

555

: 00:28:56

care about what awards you have.

556

: 00:28:58

They don't even really, to a great

degree care about your, your experience,

557

: 00:29:01

or any of the prestige things that

you may have available to you.

558

: 00:29:05

What they care about is, can

you help us solve this problem?

559

: 00:29:09

All the other stuff.

560

: 00:29:10

Then just helps to deepen the trust and

credibility once they see that, all right,

561

: 00:29:14

you are the per you at least say you can

help us, or your person who seems like you

562

: 00:29:17

can help us with a problem that we have.

563

: 00:29:20

And it's like, all right, do we

trust this person to bring them in?

564

: 00:29:22

All right, they've worked with

these people, great, but they're not

565

: 00:29:24

making the decision based on that.

566

: 00:29:27

They're just reinforcing their

trust with you through those things.

567

: 00:29:31

So initially, yeah.

568

: 00:29:33

None of that stuff matters.

569

: 00:29:35

You might have, none of you might

have none of that, but you actually

570

: 00:29:38

go out and solve the problem for

them, and they're gonna bring

571

: 00:29:41

you, they're gonna bring you in.

572

: 00:29:43

Cortney Harding: Yeah.

573

: 00:29:43

I mean, it's interesting though, you

keep coming back to this, this issue of

574

: 00:29:46

problem solving because, again, I look at

the people that I are sort of two steps

575

: 00:29:51

ahead of me, and I don't, I mean, again,

maybe they're just doing it in a different

576

: 00:29:55

way, but I don't really see them.

577

: 00:29:58

Saying that they solve problems.

578

: 00:30:00

They have sort of a big idea

that they talk about, or a brand

579

: 00:30:04

or a catchphrase, but it's not

framed as like a problem solution.

580

: 00:30:08

So I'm just wondering if I'm

being a little too like stuck

581

: 00:30:10

on this idea of problem solution

when in fact that's not it.

582

: 00:30:13

Or like how, what would

you kind of say to that?

583

: 00:30:16

John: It, it does kind of

depend on who you're looking at.

584

: 00:30:19

And, and again, you, you may not

necessarily know what they've done

585

: 00:30:22

to get their speaking business

to where it's at right now.

586

: 00:30:26

'cause you are seeing what

they're doing when they're at

587

: 00:30:29

the level they're at right now.

588

: 00:30:30

So, un unless you know the, the

path that they've taken to get

589

: 00:30:33

there, people generally have

to become known for one thing.

590

: 00:30:37

But let's say you were to look

at, I'm trying to think of a well

591

: 00:30:40

known speaker, someone like Brene

Brown, she's pretty well known now.

592

: 00:30:43

Cortney Harding: Yes,

593

: 00:30:44

John: And she's become known for

the, and if you ask anyone what,

594

: 00:30:47

what does brand, brand talk about?

595

: 00:30:49

People are probably gonna say

vulnerability as the things she became

596

: 00:30:52

most well known for straight away.

597

: 00:30:54

But that's not the only

thing that she talks about.

598

: 00:30:57

It's just what she became known for

and, and she became known by, by

599

: 00:31:01

addressing that, but also I think it was.

600

: 00:31:06

Some of it was a bit of luck with her

being in the right platform at the right

601

: 00:31:09

time and talking about a topic that

really connected with people most speak.

602

: 00:31:13

Most speakers are not going

to launch in that kind of way.

603

: 00:31:16

Now, definitely there are speakers

who will launch from a great idea

604

: 00:31:20

or a book, but most speakers are

gonna launch by solving a problem.

605

: 00:31:23

Whether that is, we need to, we

need our team to be more motivated.

606

: 00:31:27

We're bringing a motivational speaker

who's gonna solve that problem?

607

: 00:31:30

it's like, that's still,

that's still problem solving.

608

: 00:31:33

Or we need, we need our team, we

need a, a bit of lightness here.

609

: 00:31:36

We're gonna bring in an entertaining

speaker who maybe has some good, good

610

: 00:31:40

information and content as well, that

it's still solving a problem for people.

611

: 00:31:45

But if, if you as a speaker can

really address somewhere that people

612

: 00:31:49

have pain, You, you take away, you

take away the issue of, oh, right.

613

: 00:31:54

It would be nice to, it would

be nice to book Courtney for our

614

: 00:31:57

talk, but we don't really need her.

615

: 00:31:59

Whereas if they say, oh, right,

well we actually really need this

616

: 00:32:03

problem solving, we should book her.

617

: 00:32:07

Cortney Harding: Yeah, I think

that's a good way to look at it.

618

: 00:32:09

I mean, I, I, I, I should have sent

you the, the profiles of the folks

619

: 00:32:13

that I am thinking of, beforehand,

because I think that could have

620

: 00:32:16

been useful, but well, we'll, we'll

have that for next time, right?

621

: 00:32:20

Because I think that that's, where I,

and, and, look, some of it is just.

622

: 00:32:24

Accidents of timing.

623

: 00:32:26

if, if you, if there's some hot topic and

you are the person for that hot topic,

624

: 00:32:30

then that's gonna sort of compound.

625

: 00:32:34

and so that's what I'm kind of

trying to do with the repositioning

626

: 00:32:37

towards smart glasses and spatial

computing is, again, wider field than

627

: 00:32:44

John: I get what you, I get

where you're at and what, and

628

: 00:32:46

what you're trying to do there.

629

: 00:32:47

And I don't think you are wrong.

630

: 00:32:49

I just don't think it's gonna

connect in the, in the way

631

: 00:32:51

that you're hoping it will.

632

: 00:32:52

what, what will make the bigger difference

is gonna be doing the reliable stuff of

633

: 00:32:57

getting speaking gigs right now that's

gonna get you to a level of having

634

: 00:33:01

sufficient business coming in to be.

635

: 00:33:04

To be doing the kind of numbers

that you want as a speaker, because

636

: 00:33:08

once you're doing that regularly

and what, and, and even then.

637

: 00:33:12

It's like you still, there's still think

gonna be things you need to check in on.

638

: 00:33:14

Like are you getting good

feedback on the, on these things?

639

: 00:33:17

Are the talks really

connecting with people?

640

: 00:33:19

Is there a buzz?

641

: 00:33:20

Is there a buzz after

you've been on the stage?

642

: 00:33:23

And like if, if you, I mean we talk about

networking before we recorded today, but

643

: 00:33:27

you ideally want to be networking with

your audiences if you can before you speak

644

: 00:33:31

Cortney Harding: Yeah.

645

: 00:33:32

John: But definitely afterwards

because you want to know.

646

: 00:33:36

You want to know what they're

gonna say, but not just for the

647

: 00:33:38

referrals really for the feedback.

648

: 00:33:40

At this stage, you actually

actively want to be getting

649

: 00:33:42

feedback from them or hearing from

them what connected with them.

650

: 00:33:47

What are they still talking about from

your presentation, if they're not.

651

: 00:33:52

Then there's some stuff that needs

to be addressed there as well.

652

: 00:33:54

So, the, the, the journey is, the journey

is one of development along this way.

653

: 00:33:59

It's not like this is gonna

fix and solve everything.

654

: 00:34:01

This is like, all right, this

is solve one initial problem

655

: 00:34:04

of getting you on the stages.

656

: 00:34:06

But then when you're getting on the

stages, you want to make sure that.

657

: 00:34:09

Everything is running as smoothly and as

well as possible so that you are getting

658

: 00:34:14

the referrals, the re bookings, the

additional workshops or consultation, if

659

: 00:34:19

that's what you're looking for, and that

starts to become more reliable for you.

660

: 00:34:22

Cortney Harding: Okay.

661

: 00:34:23

And in terms of, I mean, LinkedIn

is, Instagram I have as well, but

662

: 00:34:28

Instagram is a little bit more informal.

663

: 00:34:30

LinkedIn is probably my

most, my biggest platform.

664

: 00:34:33

So right now my LinkedIn

strategy is, I, I have this list.

665

: 00:34:38

This little checklist that I do every

day, it's sitting next to me here

666

: 00:34:41

and I do, I add 10 new connections

every day and I have lists of

667

: 00:34:44

people that I pull from to do that.

668

: 00:34:46

I comment on at least five posts

a day and I'm always commenting

669

: 00:34:49

stuff that has some depth.

670

: 00:34:50

I'm not just saying like, good idea.

671

: 00:34:52

and I post minimum three times a week, and

it's a mix of video content and articles

672

: 00:34:57

and longer and shorter and promoting more.

673

: 00:34:59

I'm speaking.

674

: 00:35:00

All of that stuff.

675

: 00:35:01

Right?

676

: 00:35:02

And I also do the thing

where I recycle content.

677

: 00:35:04

So I'm not going to Davos this year,

but I spoke at Davos in the past.

678

: 00:35:07

So next week is gonna be like

talking about Davos, right?

679

: 00:35:11

And so, 'cause that's very timely and

that's what people are searching for.

680

: 00:35:15

So I guess anything else you can share

with me on LinkedIn strategy and then

681

: 00:35:20

John: Sure.

682

: 00:35:21

Cortney Harding: how to grow an audience?

683

: 00:35:23

Because right now I have like

10,000 followers, which is.

684

: 00:35:27

Fine.

685

: 00:35:28

And certainly there are people that

are doing well as speakers that have

686

: 00:35:31

fewer than that, but I think that, how

do I, if, if I should be focusing on

687

: 00:35:37

that, how would I grow that audience?

688

: 00:35:39

John: I, I would say it's

probably not top priority.

689

: 00:35:43

It's a nice to have, not a need to have.

690

: 00:35:45

it will give you additional credibility,

but it is something in the meantime

691

: 00:35:49

that is gonna cost you, even if it's

just time and energy it's costing you.

692

: 00:35:53

So if you want to do it, I,

I do a LinkedIn newsletter.

693

: 00:35:56

I do it every, every other week.

694

: 00:35:58

But, if it wasn't getting, if it,

if I, if I wasn't, didn't enjoy

695

: 00:36:02

doing it and it wasn't getting me

some results and, and having some

696

: 00:36:06

effect, I, I wouldn't keep doing it.

697

: 00:36:08

You have to track is the,

is, is it worth your time?

698

: 00:36:11

Are you seeing the results from

this or can you see development?

699

: 00:36:15

This is why you really need to track

this and see if it's worth it for you.

700

: 00:36:18

How valuable is going?

701

: 00:36:20

Is having that 10,000 followers gonna

be for you if you're not still getting

702

: 00:36:25

the speaking kicks in the meantime, it's

like fix, fix the thing that most needs

703

: 00:36:29

fixing and, and then you can tinker with

all the other bits around that because

704

: 00:36:34

I, I'm not a LinkedIn expert, but I, I'm

bringing, I do have a, a, an episode with

705

: 00:36:40

a LinkedIn expert coming up pretty soon

706

: 00:36:42

Cortney Harding: Oh, great.

707

: 00:36:43

John: and it'll be definitely one

for you to check out and I'll make

708

: 00:36:46

sure you get the link for that.

709

: 00:36:47

But, she, she, we did talk about this

stuff and like, what really works on

710

: 00:36:50

LinkedIn, what doesn't work on LinkedIn?

711

: 00:36:51

We had a really quick great

chat and she's a proper expert.

712

: 00:36:54

so that will be very valuable for you.

713

: 00:36:57

But I would say at this stage, what's

more valuable for you is just really the

714

: 00:37:04

thing we talked about in the newsletter

where, where we first connected of.

715

: 00:37:07

We focusing yourself on.

716

: 00:37:08

This is a business and, and it's a sales.

717

: 00:37:11

It's a sales business

more than anything else.

718

: 00:37:13

You have to focus on selling your product

and get that happening, and once that's

719

: 00:37:18

happening consistently for you, once

you've tinkered with the das that's there,

720

: 00:37:23

then you have more mental capacity to be

able to start looking at the other dials

721

: 00:37:29

and levers that you can, you know, get

work on to, to turn those results up.

722

: 00:37:35

certainly there are people who have built

their speaking careers on social media

723

: 00:37:39

strategies and, and if that's the way

you want to go, then, then by all means.

724

: 00:37:43

But again, that's that you may

find similar position of you are

725

: 00:37:46

waiting for the work to come to

you rather than getting yourself

726

: 00:37:49

out there and making it happen.

727

: 00:37:51

I, I think it's a slower path.

728

: 00:37:53

And it's a less reliable

path as well, because you may

729

: 00:37:56

or may not hit those goals.

730

: 00:37:59

Cortney Harding: yeah, absolutely.

731

: 00:38:00

I mean, I think, for me, I'm, I'm.

732

: 00:38:02

I work a lot and I'm

happy to put in the work.

733

: 00:38:06

I think my frustration comes from putting

in the work and not seeing a result.

734

: 00:38:10

Right?

735

: 00:38:10

And so that's where I feel like

I'm getting frustrated is I'm doing

736

: 00:38:14

a lot of stuff, but it seems like

I just need to kind of shift the

737

: 00:38:18

focus to the prospecting at sales.

738

: 00:38:21

John: Would let me ask you this then.

739

: 00:38:22

I mean, and this is really, we'll, we'll

start to close things off now, but if

740

: 00:38:26

you, if you really just needed to spend

one hour a day doing your prospecting for

741

: 00:38:32

your speaking, like finding the places

to reach out to, sending those, finding

742

: 00:38:35

someone to send an email to saying, are

you the, do, do you speak, do you book

743

: 00:38:39

your speakers or do you know who does?

744

: 00:38:41

and start doing that regularly or

reaching out to the, other contacts

745

: 00:38:44

as well that you have from your CRM.

746

: 00:38:47

If that was just one hour a day,

would that be much simpler, much

747

: 00:38:51

less of a burden on you and your

time and energy and money than all

748

: 00:38:55

the things you're doing right now?

749

: 00:38:57

Cortney Harding: Of course.

750

: 00:38:58

Yeah.

751

: 00:38:58

I mean, to be fair, I do enjoy

a lot of the writing that I do.

752

: 00:39:02

I do enjoy a lot

753

: 00:39:03

John: so keep doing that.

754

: 00:39:03

Do the stuff you enjoy.

755

: 00:39:04

'cause that's not work, right?

756

: 00:39:06

That's not gonna feel

like a burden to you.

757

: 00:39:08

But if you start getting focused on

getting the results from that or that

758

: 00:39:11

you should be seeing a certain amount

of following or whatever else in that.

759

: 00:39:14

Cortney Harding: Right.

760

: 00:39:15

John: I would say maybe let go of

that for now and build, build that,

761

: 00:39:19

start, keep doing it 'cause you enjoy

it and you maybe want to have some

762

: 00:39:22

presence and things like that, great.

763

: 00:39:24

But if you're not really enjoying it

or you're just doing it in the hope

764

: 00:39:27

that it might get you these results,

I think hope, hope is the, is is

765

: 00:39:32

the worst strategy for business.

766

: 00:39:34

because it's like, well, you

might get them, you might not.

767

: 00:39:37

Cortney Harding: right.

768

: 00:39:38

John: the, the process we talked about

today, whilst it's not always going to

769

: 00:39:42

get you a result every single time you

reach out, it's far more reliable than

770

: 00:39:47

everything else we've talked about.

771

: 00:39:49

Cortney Harding: sure.

772

: 00:39:50

No, that's great.

773

: 00:39:50

And I mean, that is, something that I need

to just, starting tomorrow, just focus on

774

: 00:39:56

block an hour a day and just go through

the list and revisit the list and just

775

: 00:40:00

kind of build out the, the Salesforce

HubSpot name, your name, your platform.

776

: 00:40:05

And just really kind of get

that and sales is hard, right?

777

: 00:40:10

And so I think I just need to kind of

commit to that and see where that goes.

778

: 00:40:16

John: So, so I'll, I'll leave

this conversation with this then.

779

: 00:40:19

Sales isn't really sales.

780

: 00:40:22

so sales is relationships.

781

: 00:40:24

Sales is about connecting with people.

782

: 00:40:27

So think about it in those terms.

783

: 00:40:29

'cause that's all you're looking to do is

connect and have conversations with real

784

: 00:40:32

people who need speakers, who need people

who can come and talk to them about the

785

: 00:40:38

problems that you can help them to solve.

786

: 00:40:40

As much.

787

: 00:40:40

It's a two-way street.

788

: 00:40:41

You are helping them.

789

: 00:40:43

They're gonna help you and, and that is

very reciprocal and it's a win for you.

790

: 00:40:48

It's a win for them, and it's a win for

the audiences that they, the bookers

791

: 00:40:51

will put you in front of as well.

792

: 00:40:53

Cortney Harding: Absolutely.

793

: 00:40:54

That's a great way to think about it.

794

: 00:40:55

John: Courtney, we will stay connected.

795

: 00:40:57

We'll keep, keep in touch on your pros

progress and everything like that as well.

796

: 00:41:00

but I hope this has been a

valuable session for you today.

797

: 00:41:04

Cortney Harding: Absolutely.

798

: 00:41:04

Yeah.

799

: 00:41:05

Thank you so much.

800

: 00:41:06

John: If this episode helped you think

more clearly about positioning and

801

: 00:41:10

bookings, please do me a favor and

rate the show on Spotify if you can.

802

: 00:41:15

It only takes a few seconds.

803

: 00:41:16

All you need to do is make sure

you're following the show and

804

: 00:41:19

give us a five star rating.

805

: 00:41:21

It genuinely helps more professional

speakers to find the show.

806

: 00:41:25

And if you want to be coached on the

show for free, well you can apply.

807

: 00:41:28

We'll pick sessions that are useful

for the audience and practical enough

808

: 00:41:32

that listeners can steal the strategy

without feeling like they need a second

809

: 00:41:35

mortgage or a personality transplant.

810

: 00:41:38

And you can find the link to do that

in the show notes for this episode.

811

: 00:41:42

Finally, if you want a quick diagnostic

on what's blocking your bookings, take

812

: 00:41:47

my strategic speaker business audit

and it will show you the most likely

813

: 00:41:52

reason that you are not being chosen

and what to look at fixing first.

814

: 00:41:56

Right, go be brilliant

or at least be booked.

815

: 00:41:59

Same thing in the real world.

816

: 00:42:00

Wherever you're going, whatever you're

doing, have an amazing rest of your day.

817

: 00:42:03

See you next time.