Episode 215

Facilitation Skills for Leaders: Transform Your Meetings and Presentations

Mastering the Art of Facilitation with Therese Miclot

Summary

In this episode of Present Influence, host John Ball welcomes expert facilitator and author Therese Miclot to discuss the crucial role of facilitation in meetings and presentations. Therese compares facilitation to the leavening agent in baking, emphasising its often overlooked but essential impact. They explore key elements such as mindset, content, and process, as well as practical skills like active listening and storytelling. Therese shares insights on managing disruptive participants, creating psychological safety, and crafting effective group agreements, offering valuable tips for anyone looking to enhance their facilitation skills.

Check out Therese's website for more information about leadership facilitation: https://www.thefacilitationadvantage.com/

Join us on YouTube for clips and additional content. Link below.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Effective Facilitation

01:18 Welcoming Therese Miclot

01:49 Defining Facilitation

04:14 Common Facilitation Challenges

06:43 The Importance of Mindset

11:28 Creating Psychological Safety

18:15 The Power of Storytelling

23:00 Adding Color to Your Stories

24:27 The Importance of Preparation in Storytelling

26:19 Handling Disruptors in Facilitation

31:38 Creating Effective Group Agreements

34:02 Dealing with Resistant Participants

36:19 The Power of Restating and Peer Feedback

39:30 Memorable Facilitation Experiences

41:06 The Facilitation Advantage Book

43:48 Upcoming Episodes and Series

Go to presentinfluence.com to take the Speaker StrengthsFinder Quiz and discover your greatest strengths as a speaker as well as where to focus for growth. For speaking enquiries or to connect with me, you can email john@presentinfluence.com or find me on LinkedIn

You can find all our clips, episodes and more on the Present Influence YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@PresentInfluence

Thanks for listening, and please give the show a 5* review if you enjoyed it.

Transcript
John:

Have you ever sat through a meeting or presentation?

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That should have been great, but

left you drained or disengaged?

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Chances are, it wasn't the content,

it was the facilitation, which I

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think is probably one of the main

causes why so many of us have had Zoom

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fatigue has been down to facilitation.

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In this episode of Present Influence,

I'm joined by expert, facilitator,

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and author Therese Miclot.

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Someone who believes that facilitation

is like the baking soda in a cake.

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You only notice it when it's missing,

but everything falls flat without it.

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We are gonna be diving into things

like how to stop meetings from

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dragging out what to say when

someone hijacks the discussion.

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The subtle shift that instantly

increases psychological safety and how

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anyone, not just leaders, can become

the person who moves the room forward.

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As Therese says,

facilitation starts inside.

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The thoughts you bring into

the room will shape the room.

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So stick around because this

episode might just change how you

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show up in every conversation.

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Welcome to Present Influence the show

for professional communicators who

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want to impact, influence, and inspire

with their talks and presentations.

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my name's John Ball, keynote and

communication coach, and your

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guide on this journey to mastery

level communication skills.

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First of all, let me officially welcome

to Present Influence Therese Miclot.

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Welcome to the show.

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Therese Miclot: Thank you.

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I'm excited to be here, John.

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John: I'm delighted that you are here

because we are talking today about a topic

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that I don't think I really have covered.

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It may be mentioned on the

show before, but we certainly

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haven't covered it in any depth.

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We certainly can't think of the time

we ever had a whole show about it,

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which is one about facilitation, and

this is your area of expertise, right?

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Therese Miclot: is my passion.

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John: Great.

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And so I, I have my idea in my head

about what facilitation is, and I

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don't necessarily know that it's gonna

match up a hundred percent with yours.

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So for our listener and for me how

would you define facilitation in

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the terms of how you work with it?

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Therese Miclot: Okay, well,

I will introduce it this way.

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If you are a baker.

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And you want to follow

a recipe to bake a cake?

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And John, do you bake?

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John: I do actually.

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I love baking.

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Yeah.

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Therese Miclot: So, you follow

a recipe, let's say for a DLI

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Delicious chocolate cake, and one

of the ingredients is baking soda.

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You can make the cake.

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Without baking soda, you'll, it'll

actually come out and it will taste

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like a chocolate cake, but something

will be missing because baking soda

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is a leavening agents, as and it is

an important element of the recipe.

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And I think of facilitation like

leavening agents in that I think

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most of us experience meetings

every day, and some of them.

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Are great, where we're energized,

where flies, where we're

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getting a lot of things done.

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And then there's other meetings

in our day or presentations or

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sessions where it's just dragging

and it's just when will this be over?

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And couldn't this be an email?

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And sometimes you can't necessarily

put your finger on what's missing.

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Just like in the cake, it's

facilitation skills because

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John: Yeah.

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Therese Miclot: often like goes unnoticed.

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Until you, you really reflect on

like, why did that meeting, why

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would I always dread that meeting?

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Or why do I like, always look forward

to getting together with this group?

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So it's an, it's a leavening agent

in any interaction that you need.

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And I'm not talking about those for

professional facilitators or trainers.

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I'm talking about all of us

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John: Right.

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Therese Miclot: things

accomplished and done with others.

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John: I must admit, you are making

me think of the first time I tried

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baking and confused baking powder and

baking soda, and that was not good

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and not a mistake I ever made again.

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Therese Miclot: I don't,

they don't make it easy.

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It's, it's almost identical.

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So it's not you, John,

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John: anyway.

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Yeah.

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So I thought they were the, I thought

they were the same thing and they're

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not with, which again, maybe may, may

have some ideas about facilitation

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that are not quite accurate.

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But we probably all have to do some

level of facilitation at some point.

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Right.

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I mean, what are the areas

of facilitation that you most

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commonly work with people on?

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Therese Miclot: It's wherever they have to

show up and influence really effectively.

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So a lot of times I'm coaching

people who are technically brilliant.

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They know their craft, they know their

domain, and now they've been promoted

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into a role where they're expected to.

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Lead the organization or

present on, the latest feature

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functionality of a new, product.

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And they lean very heavily on their

subject matter expertise, but they're

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recognizing that they're losing

their audience, that it's hard to

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get people to talk or engage or they

leave the meeting feeling like that,

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that didn't go as well as I hoped.

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They don't know quite why.

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So that would be one of the main examples

of where I, I work with people who

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have to find themselves in a position

where they need to get a group of

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people to work effectively together.

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John: Yeah.

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And for someone like myself who's a

speaker and a coach and a podcaster

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facilitation does still come into

play in a number of areas like where

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I'm working with VAs or I have people

coming and helping me with various

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parts of my business or events.

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I still have to facilitate meetings.

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I used to do a lot of sales meetings for

personal development companies that I

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worked for and would be facilitating that.

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And I think I look back and I'm not

always sure that I did the very best

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job of that, but that was probably

where I have mostly encountered

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facilitation in my professional life.

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But I do also see like.

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That's for me delivering at least where

I've probably received it more has been

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when I worked with other companies and

been pulled into meetings there and

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seeing that doesn't always go well.

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And often a meeting will get

scheduled for an hour or an

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hour and a half or two hours.

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And like you say, you said there thinking

this is a very long meeting and are

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we really achieving anything here?

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So.

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There's some big mistakes that people

commonly make with facilitation, right?

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Therese Miclot: There are, and I start

with we've, the example you gave is

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like sometimes, like it's not quite

right or you didn't have the impact.

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And I think that sometimes we

think that facilitation means you,

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you should be a good presenter.

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Like you should have good

slides and good information.

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And I'd say that's not the starting point.

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I think that there's

different places to start.

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For example, part of your preparation

should be managing the voice in your head.

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So how often do we walk into meetings

and we are already saying to ourselves,

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we're not saying it out loud, like,

this is gonna be rough, or No one's

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gonna buy into this, or Don't screw

up, or, you better make this go well.

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Or, your boss is sitting in the

room, so don't say, anything

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that's going to upset her or him.

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that's often where I begin because

facilitation starts inside out.

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The fact of the matter is whatever

thoughts you have going into your

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weekly meeting or a sales pitch or

a conference where you might be a

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speaker or you've been asked to present

to the more senior level leaders,

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we often just start with getting the

slides right or the message right.

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And I think you have to

get your head right first

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John: Yeah.

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Therese Miclot: it

billboard on your forehead?

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So if you go into a meeting and you're

thinking to yourself, this is gonna

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go bad, or No one's gonna buy this, or

hope, they don't ask me any questions.

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It affects your emotions.

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So, John, you tell me

what might you be feeling?

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If you're thinking to

yourself, don't screw up.

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John: I'm probably more likely to think

the thing that my, my granddad and

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my dad taught me all through my life

of if in doubt, keep your mouth shut.

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Probably more likely to do that.

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Therese Miclot: Yeah, okay.

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So you're gonna have some emotions around,

might be anxious or worried or unsure.

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And the reality is our

thoughts drive our behaviors.

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So, the way it tends to show up when

I'm observing a lot of, people to give

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them feedback, they talks very fast.

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So when we get nervous,

that can be a tendency.

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So we don't ask any questions

because we don't want to risk

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the meeting going off track.

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When we have our agenda that we have

to cover and we have a lot of things

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to cover, we don't make eye contact.

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We will lower our own credibility by

saying something like, I, I coached

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someone this with this last week.

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She would say at the start of the

meeting, I'm still learning here.

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I've only been with the company for six

months, so I might have gotten it wrong.

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And automatically as a start to, what

she was gonna say lowers her credibility

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John: Yeah.

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Therese Miclot: nervous and

she was around other people who

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had more experience than her.

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John: Yeah.

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Therese Miclot: to be, we

could be our worst enemy.

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When it comes to how we show up,

when we're trying to influence

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or work with a group of people.

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And so that's the answer to the question.

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Where do I start?

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It's typically inside before

we start to work outside.

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John: I could be wrong here.

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Now I wanna check in with this with

you, but is this kind of relevant to

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not just the facilitator, but to the

people who are in the meeting as well?

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Like we all have some responsibility to a

degree for good facilitation and meetings.

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I.

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Therese Miclot: Yeah, well, I

always say that you can facilitate

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from any seat at the table.

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Sometimes we think, oh, well,

we're gonna sit back and someone's

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going to lead us in this meeting.

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Or they own the meeting.

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And I think that's such a missed

opportunity for all of us.

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So I'll give you an example.

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I was in a meeting where a leader was

speaking about something it was very

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clear that people were not on board.

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And and so this person just kept

talking and asked things like I think

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you can all agree we should do this.

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Right, right.

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It's very hard sometimes

to tell a leader no.

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And this wise person in a very

respectful way, it and said to the

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leader, I'm not sure that everyone

really is on that same page.

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Can we talk a bit about that?

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It

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John: Yeah.

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Therese Miclot: of slowing down that the

leader who was very kind of forceful and

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wanting to just move very quickly in the

meeting because that person who did not

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have authority but was in the meeting,

caught the behavior, caught and read the

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signals, people were dropping and had the

fortitude to say something that redirected

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that meeting in a really effective way.

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John: Which is good and I will say

from some of my past experiences.

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I haven't always felt the level

of psychological safety that I

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would want to have to express

myself in those kinds of meetings.

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And I do think often if that isn't there,

you may not find out what people really

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think until they're on their way out and

they've got nothing left to lose anymore.

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And even then they might still

want a good reference or whatever

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they still might not tell you.

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So I wonder.

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What advice you maybe have for people

who are facilitating, whether they are

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the leader of the meeting or whether

they're in the meeting for helping to

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develop that level of psychological safety

where people do feel they can speak up.

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Therese Miclot: Oh, that's

so wise and it's so true.

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Right?

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If we really wanna get a group of

people to engage and interact with you.

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You have to set the table for those

conditions, and one is that they won't

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be fearful of saying something that might

be contradictory to your point of view.

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So as a facilitator, I think

you can do a few things.

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One is and what I coach this

leader on later was how you ask

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a question will inform people of

whether or not it's safe to answer.

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for instance, he was just saying, I

think we can all agree that this is the

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right decision because we have to make

this decision by the end of the meeting.

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Right, right, right.

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That's not a phrase of a question

that's going to invite genuine response.

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John: Yeah.

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Therese Miclot: I coached him to do was

to add context before the question so

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people understand why you're asking the

question, what you might do with it.

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Where, what's the motive

behind your question?

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So, for instance, instead of, I

think we can all agree, right?

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What we worked on was to say, alright

we really don't have any more time

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to debate this conversation or this

decision, but I am genuinely interested

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in hearing everyone's point of view.

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So what I would like to hear, if we go

this way, are some of the implications?

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So previewing the question.

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another great one, and I worked with

someone else this other, the other day.

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His questions sounded like test questions.

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And so people, as adults we don't wanna

go back to feeling like we're in school

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and we better answer the question, right?

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Or we're gonna look bad in

front of our peers and in front

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of our teachers, so to speak.

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Because his questions had this frame of.

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Right or wrong.

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So what we worked to create some

psychological safety is to con,

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give context to the question.

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And it was simple.

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It was, there's no right

or wrong to this question.

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just looking for everyone's opinion

on how they're thinking about this.

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John: Right.

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Therese Miclot: then

he asked the question.

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now people aren't wondering, where are

you trying to go with that question?

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are you asking me that?

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By the way, I think we do it all the time,

every day without, without bad intention.

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How many times, John, do you get a

text that says do you have a second?

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Do you have a second?

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What do you think when you get just the,

just that, those few words in a text.

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Do you have a second?

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John: I generally think you could

have just told me what you want and

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saved us both some time, but yeah.

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Therese Miclot: Right.

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And I would think if it's a client of

yours or someone that view as having

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high status, you might, start to Okay.

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Wonder what that was.

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Did I send something by mistake?

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Did I,

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John: Oh, I've had that experience.

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Yeah.

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Therese Miclot: missed?

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We do that to each other all the time.

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And

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John: Yeah.

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Therese Miclot: bad intention.

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And a simple way to make it

safe or easier for people is

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to add context to the question.

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So it might be yeah I wanna

introduce you to, my leader.

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Do you have a second bet?

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Your answer would be one thing, or maybe

it's something hilarious just happened.

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Do you have a second?

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Well, you might answer that differently

because I don't have a second.

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Maybe later,

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John: right.

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Therese Miclot: so we, that's one very

quick tip I would offer to your listeners,

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if you wanna create more likelihood

for people to genuinely answer your

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question, just give context, preview

the question with why are you asking it?

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John: Right, because the human

natural human response is to

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catastrophize an unknown, right?

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To think what's that or

what could this be about?

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And I do feel in to what you say

there, there are people who must.

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Some, if they say often a different

version of that I've seen that I

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really hate is we need to talk.

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And in fact, that's one that definitely

triggers people into thinking, I must

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have done something I must have messed up.

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And and starting to think the worst.

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And then sometimes you get onto speaking

to them and it's nothing major at all.

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But I was like, well those words

definitely do indicate there

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might be something wrong, right.

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Therese Miclot: oh, I'll tell you, I'll

tell you where I still feel guilty.

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And this happened many years ago.

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I was working in a HR

function and I was busy.

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I was busy running from

meeting to meeting.

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And I was walking by the desk

of one of my direct reports.

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And on my way back to my office, I

said, can you see me in my office?

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So she comes.

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Remember, I'm in hr.

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She comes into my office.

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Blood drained from her face and

she says, are you gonna fire me?

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I said, what?

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Why would you think that?

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She was like, well, when you

said, can you come to my office,

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I thought it must be that.

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said, oh no.

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I wanted to show you, a, I, I

dunno, something that I didn't

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have on my computer at the time.

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So it's a, I think it's a symptom

of how fast we're moving these days.

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Especially the more you work with

your colleagues, the more it's easy

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for you to jump to the conclusion

that they know where I'm coming from,

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that they know what I mean by this.

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the reality is that's not the case

because everybody has that self-talk.

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filling in the blank if

you don't them context.

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John: Hundred percent.

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I love that.

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I love that you brought that out.

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'cause I think that's something that most

people are going to be able to relate to.

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Either having done it or

being on the receiving end.

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Or both.

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Or both.

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Therese Miclot: Easy, John to fix.

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John: That's fair.

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Pretty much everyone Right?

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I know's the, my first thought this

morning was like, after having a whole

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day without power yesterday, I'm a, I'm

now a day behind on an already busy week.

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And like yeah, it doesn't help anything.

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So mindset is the first element.

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That we need to wrap our heads

around and work on improving for

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ourselves for good facilitation.

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What else is gonna be important

to think about or focus on?

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Therese Miclot: Sure.

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In, in the book that I co-wrote,

the Facilitation Advantage, we

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talk about it in three main areas.

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So mindset is one, one

we just talked about.

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Content is another area, and that's

about not just having subject matter

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expertise, but how you convey it.

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To different audiences so that

it's well received and understood.

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And then the third component is process.

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How do you help groups move

from point A to point B?

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if you're in a selling situation, how

do I get someone to understand and

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connect their problem to my solution?

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So, I'll give you a few and

then we can play around with

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John: Yeah.

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Love that.

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Therese Miclot: intriguing at the moment.

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So there's things like a one under

you skill that is so paramount

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in facilitation is listening.

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Listening.

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I think oftentimes we think, oh, well

again, we better have our script.

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We better have our notes.

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We better know what to say.

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And we lean very heavily on talking.

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listening is as essential, they

sometimes more essential than having

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the perfectly scripted response.

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So there's listening, storytelling.

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So I don't know about you, John, but some

days I, it feels like endless meetings

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sometimes I'm, I have the misfortune of

needing to have a meeting with someone.

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It's 3:00 PM.

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exhausted, right?

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We all are after, endless day of

meetings and I need to influence

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their thinking on something.

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I have a choice.

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I could just give facts.

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I could give details.

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I could offer research

or I have another choice.

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I could tell a story.

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And storytelling is another really

useful tool and skill for all

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of us when we want to stand out.

374

:

the reality is, story is meaning.

375

:

It's how as humans, we make

meaning and it's sticky.

376

:

So if you wanna be memorable at that

three o'clock meeting and not just

377

:

blend in with all the other meanings

that you had, then it's worth getting

378

:

better at how you craft a story that

will be meaningful to your audience.

379

:

So storytelling

380

:

John: are there, sorry.

381

:

Are there particular kinds of

stories that you're talking about

382

:

here or any kind of storytelling I.

383

:

Therese Miclot: Yeah, and

actually there's a lot of variety

384

:

of the story you can tell.

385

:

You can tell stories that are

examples of mistakes to avoid.

386

:

can tell your story, your personal story.

387

:

You can tell the story of another

person, and so repeat their story.

388

:

You can.

389

:

Use metaphor or analogy, which I work

with a lot of, again, very technical

390

:

people who have to translate very complex

things easily understood concepts,

391

:

especially when they're presenting

to senior leaders who don't have an

392

:

engineering degree or don't have the

same right level of sophistication

393

:

with the whatever technology.

394

:

we work a lot on.

395

:

to frame it as a metaphor,

because that becomes more,

396

:

much more instantly understood.

397

:

Understood.

398

:

Because we can relate to it.

399

:

So,

400

:

John: I, I saw a really good example

of that today and I was watching a

401

:

clip from John Stewart's Daily Show.

402

:

And he was using the metaphor

analogy of WWE wrestling to explain

403

:

things that were going on with the

government, and it was very clever.

404

:

It really worked.

405

:

And I think so it does, sometimes

it does just help people to stuff

406

:

that sounds complicated or boring

to be able to make those connections

407

:

and see things that, all right.

408

:

Yeah, it's a bit, maybe not exactly

like that, but it's a bit like that.

409

:

So that helps me to comprehend it.

410

:

I love that.

411

:

Therese Miclot: Exactly.

412

:

Well, and the fact that you remembered it

413

:

John: Yes.

414

:

Therese Miclot: me this now is

to the point of it's sticky.

415

:

It's it helps us make

meaning of complex things.

416

:

John: Absolutely.

417

:

So we can all be better, a bit better at

storytelling and I know that sometimes

418

:

there are stories that perhaps get a bit

trite and overused, so I think we should

419

:

probably avoid try and avoid those.

420

:

But yeah, I do think personal

stories or there should be

421

:

pertinent at the very least to make

sure you have the right stories.

422

:

Yeah.

423

:

Therese Miclot: Yeah, stories

where you want your listener to

424

:

imagine themselves in the story.

425

:

says the main character.

426

:

And so, in some of the workshops we

do, and we're working on helping people

427

:

become more, better storytellers, we

use a tool called Advance and Color.

428

:

Sometimes and I'll offer

my husband as an example.

429

:

Just yesterday I was asking him,

he, we needed to change something

430

:

with our utilities in our town, and

I simply just wanted did it happen?

431

:

Were you able to talk to the right

person to change the utilities?

432

:

He starts with, well, the first

thing I did was I went on the,

433

:

website to try to find the link.

434

:

And I'm like, advance, go.

435

:

Did you do it?

436

:

Did you do it?

437

:

So sometimes some people that

need to really work on becoming

438

:

more advanced with, moving more

quickly through the story, right?

439

:

That we'll lose interest

if it's too detailed.

440

:

John: Yes.

441

:

Therese Miclot: some

people, that's the thing.

442

:

John: Yeah.

443

:

Therese Miclot: people,

it's color, meaning they

444

:

John: Okay.

445

:

Therese Miclot: know more more

of the texture of the story

446

:

to imagine themselves in it.

447

:

Because the opposite, it was if my

husband said, yeah, I did it, it was done.

448

:

But there was an interesting element

to it, and that was that the woman

449

:

that he talked with was someone that

he, knew and it, was like a video

450

:

reunion that happened on this call.

451

:

Color.

452

:

So it was like

453

:

John: Right.

454

:

Therese Miclot: So I hadn't, seen

Pam in 25 years we're talking on

455

:

the phone and she my, tone and

my name and added color to it.

456

:

So ways in the book that we offer.

457

:

Where is your edge for

learning how to tell story?

458

:

John: Yeah, in, in my own storytelling

experience I do, I'm one of those people

459

:

who has a tendency to add too much

information or detail into stories and

460

:

nearly always end up having to think,

okay, does this need to be there?

461

:

Does that need to be there?

462

:

And try and condense the story down

to these parts that are most effective

463

:

and relevant because nobody wants

to hear really those sort of long

464

:

winding road stories that don't get

or take forever to get to the point

465

:

of what you're actually talking about.

466

:

So I think that's great advice.

467

:

Something we could probably all be

better at, but something that does take

468

:

a bit of preparation, I think it's not

just something probably most people

469

:

are gonna be able to do on the spot.

470

:

Right.

471

:

Therese Miclot: I'm so glad you said

that, John, because that is so true.

472

:

I think that good storytelling

needs a little preparation.

473

:

I.

474

:

And that it's almost like that you,

over time you really refine the story.

475

:

So, where do people light up when

you, and or you draw them in when

476

:

you're telling the story and when

you know, what are parts of the story

477

:

that, to your point, you can cut out.

478

:

They're not that essential.

479

:

They break the rhythm of the story.

480

:

And I have probably five or

six stories that I have told.

481

:

not exaggerating hundreds of times

over the course of my career, and

482

:

I have refined and refined those

stories that they land as intended,

483

:

John: Yeah.

484

:

Therese Miclot: I couldn't agree more.

485

:

I think if you want to be good

at storytelling, it requires a

486

:

little bit of preparation, and I

487

:

John: I agree.

488

:

Therese Miclot: of that preparation

is to tell it many times.

489

:

To someone that you trust, and

you can ask them, where should

490

:

I move faster through the story?

491

:

Where should I add more detail?

492

:

Because we're all, we all are

storytellers at heart and we all have

493

:

heard many stories, so you'll probably

be advised well, even by a friend

494

:

if they, will be honest with you.

495

:

John: Yeah, give them permission

to give you some honest

496

:

feedback, even if it's not.

497

:

It doesn't need to, the

feedback doesn't need to be.

498

:

This is fantastic.

499

:

This is great.

500

:

I love you and my friend.

501

:

It needs to be helpful.

502

:

What's gonna help this story

be well received by people?

503

:

I certainly, I do a bit of standup

comedy these days and I like to get

504

:

a bit of feedback before I take stuff

onto stage and, it's very helpful, but

505

:

I need to have honest feedback and I

can't just have, oh, yeah, that's good.

506

:

That'll work.

507

:

It is like, well, it might

not, so we'll find out.

508

:

But I'd rather know before, at least

somewhat, you never really know how stuff

509

:

is gonna be received, so you deliver it.

510

:

Therese Miclot: It's

511

:

John: I don't know if this is the right

point in the conversation to us this,

512

:

but hopefully, but how do you only

advise people to handle disruptors

513

:

in the facilitation arrangements.

514

:

Therese Miclot: What well, tell me more.

515

:

What would be something that you

would find disruptive and then we

516

:

can play around with what I might do.

517

:

John: So a few different

ones spring to mind.

518

:

I've maybe had this more in times

where I have facilitated workshops

519

:

and group coaching events.

520

:

That someone wants to dominate the

conversation, they want to ask all the

521

:

questions or they want all the attention.

522

:

Maybe that's a conscious thing for them.

523

:

Maybe it's not, but they,

that's what they end up doing.

524

:

Or someone who is kind of contrarian,

perhaps on some level doesn't really

525

:

wanna be there or thinks they know

better and isn't being quiet about that.

526

:

So those are a few that spring to mind.

527

:

Therese Miclot: Okay.

528

:

so, a couple, I think let's talk first

about the person that might be disruptive

529

:

in that they're speaking too much and not

leaving space for other people to speak.

530

:

I think there's a couple things.

531

:

One is that when you start to see

that, when you start to notice someone

532

:

speaking over others or more frequently,

I will back to context to a question.

533

:

Here's what I will say.

534

:

Before I ask the next question

I'll, I'm noticing I'm only hearing

535

:

from a couple voices, not others.

536

:

So I'll say for this next question,

I would really like to hear from

537

:

someone who hasn't spoken up yet.

538

:

And someone just gave me this feedback

in a meeting a couple weeks ago.

539

:

It happened to be the person who usually

540

:

And she comes up to me and she

goes, I saw what you did there.

541

:

you know what I, that

was, I got the message.

542

:

I got the message in the most

like, kind of supportive way.

543

:

She's like, I know I can tend to overtalk.

544

:

And when you said, let's hear from someone

who hasn't spoken, that was a helpful

545

:

signal to me to stay baby out of this one.

546

:

So that's

547

:

John: Right,

548

:

Therese Miclot: you can proactively, the

minute you start to sense that, that's

549

:

becoming an issue, start by inviting other

people through, through the question.

550

:

Let's hear from someone

who hasn't spoken up yet.

551

:

I'd say that does the trick.

552

:

50% of the time, here's another

553

:

John: right.

554

:

Therese Miclot: Sometimes a person

needs to be acknowledged that

555

:

they keep talking when they don't

feel like anyone understands them.

556

:

So this is back to mindset.

557

:

Instead of looking at them as

like, oh, comes John again.

558

:

He's gonna have something to say,

might think, okay, so what is John?

559

:

What's, is John not feeling we understand?

560

:

That he needs to know.

561

:

We understand sometimes people

will keep talking until they

562

:

get a sense that you get it.

563

:

So one way that I often do that

is by restating, and restating is

564

:

just verbalizing your understanding

of their point of view.

565

:

Because when people feel heard

and understood, they tend to not

566

:

feel the need to keep talking.

567

:

So you can say, yeah, John,

I can see your excitement.

568

:

So you're saying one, two, and

three, and then you might say yeah.

569

:

I'm four, five, and six.

570

:

Okay.

571

:

So it's, and I'll re, I'll restate.

572

:

So the issue is that without power in

Portugal, it's hard to do your job.

573

:

say, yes, that's it.

574

:

John: Indeed.

575

:

Therese Miclot: Then I would turn to

others and say, what do others think?

576

:

So I'm respecting you.

577

:

equally respecting the rest of the group.

578

:

John: Yeah.

579

:

Therese Miclot: So that's the second one.

580

:

The third one that might take a

little bit more courage is to talk

581

:

to that person at a break and not

in a accusatory or stop talking

582

:

manner, but just say what you notice.

583

:

I notice

584

:

John: Yeah.

585

:

Therese Miclot: that when when we have

dialogue, you are the first to speak

586

:

up and you're frequently speaking up.

587

:

I have done this is what I found that I

don't think I would've known otherwise.

588

:

And it's happened multiple times.

589

:

The person will say, well, I've

been in enough meetings where no

590

:

one will talk, and I don't want

you to have that experience.

591

:

John: Yeah.

592

:

Therese Miclot: essence, they're saying,

they're trying to help me the facilitator.

593

:

And I say oh, do not worry.

594

:

I'm not, I'm okay with silence.

595

:

In fact, there are people in

this room that need a beat.

596

:

They need a moment to think

before they can respond.

597

:

And when you start speaking, it

interrupts their ability to do that.

598

:

John: Right.

599

:

Therese Miclot: new awareness

because I myself talking, going in

600

:

and talking to those peoples, they

may not un, they may not know, they

601

:

may not be aware of they're doing.

602

:

And it usually has been

because of good intention.

603

:

It's just misapplied.

604

:

John: Do you think it's,

oh, sorry, go ahead.

605

:

The last one.

606

:

Therese Miclot: more, and this is for

when we're all like physically together,

607

:

you need to break eye contact with them.

608

:

Because when you give eye contact to

people, it invites them to keep talking.

609

:

And so a very simple thing is I

would break eye contact with you.

610

:

I would maybe return to you,

but I'm gonna break it because

611

:

that also is a subtle signal.

612

:

I'm interested in what

everybody else has to say.

613

:

John: That makes a lot of sense.

614

:

And of course for in-person

meetings, that's a lot more valuable.

615

:

Do you think it's something you can also

help to pre-frame where before you even

616

:

get started really to say, now this is my

expectation of how things, or this is the

617

:

intention for how I want things to go.

618

:

Therese Miclot: I do.

619

:

I, in fact, I think that

most of us underuse.

620

:

Ground rules or group agreements.

621

:

And I have found that most

group agreements are very

622

:

basic and not very helpful.

623

:

They'll be like, we're gonna

start on time and on time.

624

:

Put your devices away.

625

:

that's housekeeping in my opinion.

626

:

I use a different set of, and

I call them group agreements

627

:

because that is what they are.

628

:

I'm trying to get an agreement

with the group because when I do.

629

:

That gives me the ability to course

correct the group when things are not

630

:

being kept, agreements not being kept.

631

:

for instance, one of my group

agreements is usually contribute

632

:

as much as you consume.

633

:

So I'm doing a lot of leadership

development and I really truly believe

634

:

that the wisdom usually is already

in the room, even if people are new

635

:

to leadership or things like that.

636

:

So that means that I'm

expecting people to contribute.

637

:

So that's also a message to the people

who tend to not speak up enough.

638

:

Also consideration is a ground rule.

639

:

Consideration being we're going to

create space for every voice to be heard

640

:

here and not want to overpower another.

641

:

When you treat those as an agreement,

because I've I'm genuinely looking

642

:

for, can you all agree to that?

643

:

And will you give me the the

power to keep us on track when

644

:

we're off of these agreements?

645

:

And no one ever says no.

646

:

And and I use them.

647

:

John: Yeah.

648

:

Therese Miclot: if I'm noticing,

we're only hearing from a

649

:

few people, not everyone.

650

:

Maybe after a break I'll come

back and I'll say, Hey, I wanna

651

:

tell you what I'm noticing.

652

:

And that is that there's a few people

offering their opinion, but not everyone.

653

:

And I know we agreed that

everyone would contribute.

654

:

So is what, and I'll

leave it to the group.

655

:

What else can we do to make sure

that everyone feels as though they

656

:

had the space to speak up here?

657

:

And so

658

:

John: Very important.

659

:

Have you ever been in a situation

where you've been facilitating

660

:

to a largely resistant room?

661

:

Like they don't like a bunch of people

who may be here 'cause I have to be

662

:

here and don't really want to be.

663

:

Therese Miclot: Yeah.

664

:

What have you I'll tell you, Maya,

and you're, you do this as well.

665

:

What do you tend to do?

666

:

John: I tend I tend to

start off, say frame.

667

:

I tend to frame things

up for them as well.

668

:

It's like I want to make this as

painless and fun for you as possible

669

:

and as brief as possible as well.

670

:

We're not gonna have flo, we're

not gonna have do anything we're

671

:

gonna do when we're finished.

672

:

We'll be finished if that means going.

673

:

Earlier that will be that.

674

:

But your participation is gonna make

this go quicker because if I have to

675

:

wait for people to contribute an answer,

it's gonna extend our time together.

676

:

So, usually you can get agreement

on that, that they don't want

677

:

to extend our time together.

678

:

And we're already started to break down a

bit of resistance there as well, I find,

679

:

because once they're making agreements

with you, they're a bit more on your side.

680

:

Therese Miclot: Yeah.

681

:

I think, again, I, what I love about

facilitation is it's a series of choices.

682

:

That there's not one right choice.

683

:

It's a matter of having more

options when you encounter whatever

684

:

you encounter with the group.

685

:

So I think those choices

absolutely make sense.

686

:

I'll add a few more.

687

:

think that people, especially when they're

resistant, to test whether or not it's

688

:

safe to really offer their point of view.

689

:

And I tend to not want that to be

buried under, the, buried under silence.

690

:

So I will tend to lean into

or address what I know to be

691

:

true, especially around change.

692

:

Let's say, there's gonna be

a, an organizational change.

693

:

I'm working with a group and I know

that there's a lot of concern, there's

694

:

a lot of resistance to this change.

695

:

One, I'll acknowledge it,

that not everybody is I'll

696

:

say what is not being said.

697

:

As a way to create psychological

safety to, not become a session where

698

:

we're just going to complain but I

will acknowledge that everybody's at a

699

:

different place and opinion of what's

gonna happen here with this change.

700

:

So one is, I think acknowledging where

people are at is a powerful thing.

701

:

The other thing that I will

use my choice is back to

702

:

listening, and that is restating.

703

:

Restating again, is verbalizing your point

of view or another person's point of view.

704

:

the interesting thing, it's not

agreement, it's just that I will be

705

:

willing to verbalize your understanding.

706

:

So it might sound like this and

this meeting, and I, we're talking

707

:

about a change and I'm talking a

bit about, the positives that are

708

:

gonna happen with this org change.

709

:

And you say, I don't know, trees.

710

:

We've done this so many times,

we've had so many change.

711

:

over the last couple years, how do we

all know we're not gonna lose our jobs?

712

:

So that's what you're gonna say.

713

:

Now, me I can't, I don't know.

714

:

I don't know.

715

:

I have a crystal ball.

716

:

so I have a choice.

717

:

I could just say, well, let's table that.

718

:

I don't know.

719

:

But I would tend to restate and I would

say, so the way you see it, John, is.

720

:

We haven't figured out how to do this

well in the past, and so you're not

721

:

confident we're gonna do this well now.

722

:

And you're already nodding your head

723

:

John: Fair.

724

:

Therese Miclot: is and you're gonna say,

right, because we've had three leaders,

725

:

we've had, reduction in force, we've

had, change in, direction five times.

726

:

I'll just keep restating.

727

:

So until you get a sense that we

know how to right this ship, it's

728

:

hard to be on board with this.

729

:

And then again, it's not my agreement,

it's just that I want you to know I,

730

:

under I, I don't necessarily agree.

731

:

I understand your point of view.

732

:

John: Right.

733

:

So

734

:

Therese Miclot: magical skill.

735

:

Because when people genuinely feel

heard and understood, they're gonna

736

:

be more likely to listen to you.

737

:

John: yeah.

738

:

Therese Miclot: I'm probably not

gonna keep getting the same amount

739

:

of resistance from you because I

had, at least I acknowledged it,

740

:

John: Yeah, absolutely.

741

:

Therese Miclot: say, how

do other people feel?

742

:

Here's my last trick.

743

:

When you throw it to the rest of

the group, how do other people view?

744

:

How do other people see it?

745

:

It can feel risky to you as a facilitator

because what if it's a pile on?

746

:

Now they're like, yeah, and

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

747

:

But also sometimes what I

get is another person saying,

748

:

well, wait, it's not all bad.

749

:

We've, we, the change in leadership

has been really positive.

750

:

We, we have, more investment and

more funding than we've ever had.

751

:

one, sometimes what happens more often

than not is I'm not gonna debate that

752

:

person, but they'll, their peer will

often offer a different point of view,

753

:

and that changes the dynamic where you

might now be more inclined to listen

754

:

to that peer says, well, wait a second.

755

:

There's been a lot of

positive things that happened.

756

:

What you don't wanna do, I think, is

get into a situation where it's now you

757

:

and that person back and forth with the

758

:

John: Sure.

759

:

Yeah.

760

:

Therese Miclot: has a

front row seat to, watch.

761

:

John: Head to head.

762

:

Yeah.

763

:

Yeah.

764

:

Probably not anyone wants,

but it's a great tip.

765

:

I wonder for you, have there been

any experiences or facilitation

766

:

that have stood out to you like,

oh, this is what it's all about.

767

:

This is why I do it.

768

:

Where it's just gone so well

or been very memorable for you?

769

:

Therese Miclot: Yeah, I think that

I, it what I really love to see is

770

:

when people feel, like the experience

is different than anything else.

771

:

I think most people walk into meetings,

trainings, presentations already

772

:

with this mindset, because we've been

through so many that are just horrible.

773

:

Like, ugh, here we go again.

774

:

when I think that I can bring the

baking soda, when I can bring doesn't,

775

:

every meeting doesn't have to be bad.

776

:

Every training doesn't have to

be just drudgery and boring.

777

:

I.

778

:

And this happened recently where someone

came up to me and said, I came into today

779

:

thinking like, I don't even wanna be here.

780

:

I have a thousand other things I need

to do, but I am so glad I was here.

781

:

This was the best day I've had all month.

782

:

And I really believe that it

comes down to facilitation skills

783

:

because people wanna just feel and.

784

:

Respected and heard in meetings, and

there's just a huge deficiency in it.

785

:

John: Yeah, absolutely.

786

:

And certainly I think

you've given us some very.

787

:

Good insights into facilitation today and

some things that I'm gonna be trying out.

788

:

And so I will be going back through my

notes from this replaying this episode

789

:

to get those points myself, but there's

more for us to get from you as well.

790

:

You have written a book,

the Facilitation Advantage.

791

:

Can you tell us a little about that?

792

:

Therese Miclot: Sure.

793

:

Sure.

794

:

So, that book is written for really

all your listeners, and by that I'm

795

:

not assuming everyone's a professional

facilitator or wants to be one.

796

:

I'm talking about all of us every

day where we have to facilitate.

797

:

So it's written for, it's

written for all of you.

798

:

it's meant to be very practical.

799

:

It starts with the self-assessment,

and then you can just go to

800

:

the sections of the book.

801

:

So if it, the storytelling,

to that section.

802

:

If it's listening, go to that section.

803

:

And to make it easy for your listeners,

we have a free self-assessment so that

804

:

you can really just distill if I'm going

to focus on one or two things, and I feel

805

:

like I could be better at how I manage

beatings or how I present information.

806

:

We'll make it so simple.

807

:

Go to that self-assessment and then you

can just really hone in on the one or

808

:

two things that will improve your impact.

809

:

John: Great.

810

:

Therese Miclot: free to everybody.

811

:

John: How can our listener

access the the free assessment?

812

:

Therese Miclot: So it's at the

book website, so it's all one word,

813

:

the facilitation advantage.com.

814

:

John: Perfect.

815

:

Therese Miclot: And go find it there.

816

:

John: Awesome.

817

:

I'll put a clickable link in

the show notes for anyone who

818

:

wants to access it that way.

819

:

But great.

820

:

So I hope you go and do that.

821

:

I certainly want to check out

that free assessment for myself.

822

:

I think it's very helpful.

823

:

Theres, you've shared some

wonderful things with us today.

824

:

I don't think anyone's gonna be able

to come away from this episode, not

825

:

having learned something valuable to

help them improve their facilitation.

826

:

Such a powerful leadership skill

for all of us to improve upon.

827

:

And I'm so glad that you agreed to

come and be a guest on the show today.

828

:

And Tre Michel, thank you so much for

being my guest on present influence.

829

:

Therese Miclot: Thank you.

830

:

It was my pleasure.

831

:

John: I personally really enjoyed

this chat with Therese and

832

:

learned a lot about facilitation.

833

:

Something that I'm so glad we

chose a whole episode to focus

834

:

on because there was a lot there.

835

:

I wonder what your biggest takeaway

has been from this episode, and

836

:

I would love to hear it as well.

837

:

So if you're on YouTube, please

leave a comment and let me know

838

:

what you have taken away, or any

questions that you have having listened

839

:

to the episode, and if you are a

Spotify listener, you can actually post

840

:

questions and comments in Spotify now.

841

:

and if you're not already

subscribed to the show, now is

842

:

a great opportunity to do that.

843

:

If you, I'm assuming if you've listened

this long, you've probably got some

844

:

value outta what you heard today.

845

:

if you haven't already been checking

out my new miniseries on Cialdini's

846

:

influence skills for professional

speakers and communicators, please

847

:

do make sure you subscribe to the

show so you can check that out.

848

:

the first episode is already available.

849

:

The next one is coming on Friday.

850

:

I hope you'll join me for that.

851

:

Next Wednesday, my guest will be Esther

Avant, and we are gonna be talking

852

:

about another topic that we haven't

covered on the show before, which

853

:

is about stage fitness, fitness for

speakers, and being in good shape.

854

:

How much of a difference it can

really make to how you show up as

855

:

a speaker and presenter and to how

you feel as you present as well.

856

:

Often many of us, myself included, very

self-conscious about our appearance,

857

:

especially if we have a few extra pounds.

858

:

So Esther is talking about how

we can get ourselves looking and

859

:

feeling healthier as speakers and

how much of an impact that can make.

860

:

Super excited to bring

that episode to you.

861

:

I promise you, it's not gonna be one of

those conversations where you're gonna

862

:

feel bad about yourself if you haven't

been exercising or eating well enough.

863

:

but hopefully one of those ones that

will actually give you some great

864

:

resources and a nice gentle nudge

and a bit of inspiration to make some

865

:

positive changes if if you are in

the right place to do that right now.

866

:

Also, next Friday I'll be continuing

a short series on Robert Cialdini's

867

:

Weapons of Influence for Speakers,

and we'll be talking about authority,

868

:

how to use it correctly, what it

really means for speakers, how it's

869

:

often abused and way, and some of

the reasons why we should perhaps be

870

:

a little more skeptical of authority

in our lives and a bit more besides,

871

:

so I hope you'll join me for that.

872

:

It's, it's a really fun series and

that's only gonna be part two of

873

:

the Seven Weapons of Influence.

874

:

We'll be continuing into other

influence skills and areas that I'm

875

:

sure you'll want to join me for as well.

876

:

If you have also been following the

Coaching Clinic podcast that I do

877

:

with my good friend Angie, we have

now set up its own YouTube channel.

878

:

So you should be able to see up on

the screen, a link to that channel.

879

:

You can go and find us there, subscribe.

880

:

We need a bit of love there.

881

:

We're just getting that channel

started, that one subscriber right now.

882

:

So hopefully by the time you're watching

this, there might even be a few more

883

:

people there but it has its own channel.

884

:

you'll be able to get all the unique

clips and full episodes of the Coaching

885

:

Clinic Podcast with myself and Angie.

886

:

Hope to see you there too.

887

:

for now, wherever you're going,

whatever you're doing, have

888

:

an amazing rest of your week.

889

:

See you next time.

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About the Podcast

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Present Influence
The podcast that helps professional communicators learn the skills that increase influence, impact and authority.

Listen for free

About your host

Profile picture for John Ball

John Ball

John Ball is a keynote coach and professional speaker on a mission to help upcoming leaders master their communication, create impact and stand out as experts in their field.
John left the high life of his flying career to do something more meaningful to him and has since worked with several leading personal and professional development organisations as a lead coach and trainer.
The heart of everything John does involves helping people shift to personal responsibility and conscious awareness of how they show up and perform in every situation, whilst equipping them with the tools to be exceptional.
John also co-hosts The Coaching Clinic Podcast with his great friend and colleague Angie Besignano.
He lives in the beautiful city of Valencia, Spain with his husband and often visits the UK and US for speaking and training engagements. When he's not speaking or podcasting, he's likely to be out swimming, kayaking or enjoying time with friends.

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