Episode 150

Stop faking it in business with guest Bob Gentle

On relaunching my podcast and re-branding as Podfluence, I knew who I wanted as my first guest and am super grateful he agreed. Bob Gentle is not only a friend but one of the most insightful business coaches/consultants I've met. He's really well-clued into what's going on in the business world and knows a great deal about leadership branding.

I wanted to speak to Bob because he's a fellow podcaster with a show I still enjoy listening to and he's also appearing on more shows as a guest and is someone who not only believes in the power and potential of podcasting but has actively grown his business and professional authority with podcasts. Those things make him an ideal first guest for Podfluence.

In this episode we discuss:

  • Why being really authentic is hard
  • What makes someone charismatic
  • The law of balance in business
  • Is there still value in podcasting
  • The fear of niching
  • The #1 difference between you and the names on the books on your bookshelf

and a few other things besides.

I mentioned I'm a fan of Bob's podcast, and it's true. It's called The Personal Brand Entrepreneur Show and you can check it out here: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-personal-brand-business-show-personal-branding/id1439009077

I highly recommend Bob's Facebook Group The Personal Brand Business Dojo

& you can download a free copy of Bob's Personal Brand Business Roadmap, just Like I have: https://amplifyme.agency/personal-brand-business-success-blueprint/

Want to be a part of the Podfluencer Community? Join us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/971673626709254 and subscribe to the Podfluencer Weekly Newsletter on LinkedIn or on Medium.com

Are you a podcaster looking to grow & monetize your show? Check out Kevin Chemidlin's podcast Grow The Show & join us in the free Facebook group.

Did you enjoy the show? Did you learn anything new or useful? If you did, the best way to show appreciation is by sharing the show with your online network. Tag me and I'll give you a shout-out on an upcoming episode. Leave a review and I'll read it out on the show.

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Mentioned in this episode:

Podfluence Weekly

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Transcript
Bob Gentle:

I think this is the thing is the more I think I could easily pretend

Bob Gentle:

to be someone else, and I think this is important for everyone to hear, but

Bob Gentle:

the problem is if you pretend to be somebody else, you will attract people

Bob Gentle:

who are attracted to somebody else.

Bob Gentle:

They're not attracted to you for the right reasons, and the more you

Bob Gentle:

show up as authentically yourself, even if you feel that that's really

Bob Gentle:

awkward, even if you feel you should be someone else, the more you can do it.

Bob Gentle:

The more you will attract people who are attracted to you for who you are, they're

Bob Gentle:

gonna be pre-sold on your personality.

Bob Gentle:

They already know you.

Bob Gentle:

They already like you.

Bob Gentle:

They already trust what they will meet when they work with you.

John Ball:

This episode is with my good friend, Bob gentle.

John Ball:

Bob is a leadership brand expert.

John Ball:

And someone who not just happy to say my friend, I'm really happy to follow him.

John Ball:

I love his podcast.

John Ball:

He has a cool Facebook group and he's a really great guy with incredible insights.

John Ball:

And if you're not already following him, like if you like people

John Ball:

like Chris Ducker who had on speaking influence a while back.

John Ball:

You're going to love Bob as well.

John Ball:

Bob has So many insightful things to say, and a very gentle way

John Ball:

to me listening to Bob is like listening to ASMR is very soothing.

John Ball:

And so you'll find that as well and also enjoy this conversation.

John Ball:

Let me know your thoughts And make sure you're subscribed and enjoy

John Ball:

this new episode of performance

John Ball:

Well, welcome to the show, and today I'm really happy to be joined by

John Ball:

someone who I've had the pleasure of getting to know over probably

John Ball:

just the last six months really.

John Ball:

And yet it feels like so much longer because he's such a cool guy.

John Ball:

And this is someone who is really someone who I would go to in terms of

John Ball:

thinking about branding and launching a business and getting yourself

John Ball:

seen in the right places about that.

John Ball:

So much so that.

John Ball:

I do follow him on Facebook and other places as well.

John Ball:

Let me properly introduce the show.

John Ball:

Bob Gentle.

John Ball:

Great to have you here, Bob.

Bob Gentle:

It's my pleasure.

Bob Gentle:

I'm really excited.

Bob Gentle:

I have no idea where we're gonna go, but I know it's gonna be fun.

John Ball:

it's interesting that we thought, or you thought that you had

John Ball:

already been on the show because we've sp I guess because we've spoken a lot.

Bob Gentle:

Yeah, we speak a lot and we had spoken about me coming in the

Bob Gentle:

show, and I know you've been on mine.

Bob Gentle:

But I was convinced that I had, and.

Bob Gentle:

I think I have a couple of guests on my show, and I hope they're not listening.

Bob Gentle:

I've accidentally lost their recordings because the interviews were a car crash.

Bob Gentle:

Now, this hasn't happened for a very long time, but I thought I might

Bob Gentle:

have been one of those for you.

John Ball:

Um, uh, yeah, I guess I could say the same has happened to

John Ball:

me, Bob, but yeah, I know that yours isn't going to be, and I'm glad that

John Ball:

mine wasn't one of the ones that you that you accidentally lost either.

John Ball:

But I have been looking forward to speaking to you and I have had other

John Ball:

guests who've thought that we've recorded when we haven't before.

John Ball:

So you're not the first, but maybe that's a good sign of that.

John Ball:

I'm more ubiquitous than I thought I was and maybe people just have

John Ball:

a more of an idea of maybe I have a bigger presence than I realize.

John Ball:

What I would like to ask you as we get things particularly started, that's

John Ball:

what I've been, something I've been asking people at the start of every

John Ball:

show, but who is somebody maybe industry related for you, but doesn't have to

John Ball:

be who you particularly look up to, respect and, admire for their use of

John Ball:

influence and persuasion in what they do?

Bob Gentle:

I think there is one person who immediately springs to

Bob Gentle:

mind and he's somebody that not a lot of people have heard of.

Bob Gentle:

He's very well known in particular circles.

Bob Gentle:

But it's a guy called Richie Norton and he wrote a book called The

Bob Gentle:

Power of Starting Something Stupid.

Bob Gentle:

And he is another book coming out quite soon, which is loosely

Bob Gentle:

around time management and how everyone has got it wrong.

Bob Gentle:

But the reason I love Richie and he has a podcast and like I said,

Bob Gentle:

he's an author, is he's influential for all The right reasons.

Bob Gentle:

He's Unashamedly authentic.

Bob Gentle:

If you, The first time I met him was at an event, a big event, and he was

Bob Gentle:

just a guy in the back of the room and I thought, he looks like fun.

Bob Gentle:

He just looked like a random surfer dude had walked into the room.

Bob Gentle:

Now I completely misjudged him.

Bob Gentle:

Thankfully I spent a bit of time, I got to know him, and it was only after the

Bob Gentle:

event I realized how big a deal he was.

Bob Gentle:

he was the only person in the event that didn't even have to pay

Bob Gentle:

because he was that well connected.

John Ball:

way.

Bob Gentle:

and for me, he's kind of my social media spirit animal.

Bob Gentle:

he's somebody I look up at to as a really strong role model in how to

Bob Gentle:

be authentic and how being really authentic and as much as giving

Bob Gentle:

yourself permission to be yourself, not worrying about how you're coming

Bob Gentle:

across, that's often the most engaging.

Bob Gentle:

When you can meet somebody who's not worrying about the

Bob Gentle:

impression that they give.

Bob Gentle:

They've got that natural confidence and charisma.

Bob Gentle:

Richie, for me, he is that I look at his content every day as my sort

Bob Gentle:

of north star, my compass bearing as to how to show up 100% authentic.

John Ball:

do you think then that that is part of charisma in that scale of being

John Ball:

able to let go of the need for people to like you or to validate you or anything

John Ball:

like that and just say, No, this is it.

John Ball:

This is what you got.

Bob Gentle:

I think it's hard, but it is, I think, not worrying about the outcome

Bob Gentle:

of an engagement or a conversation, but being there to use a phrase I saw

Bob Gentle:

Mike Kim use recently of your content being almost a sacrificial event.

Bob Gentle:

It's 100% for other people, it's not for you, like, allows you to approach.

Bob Gentle:

Content and every engagement and every relationship without any agenda.

Bob Gentle:

And there's a universal law that I live by, which is balance.

Bob Gentle:

The universe wants to keep everything in balance.

Bob Gentle:

So if you give unapologetically, the law of balance will take care of you.

Bob Gentle:

and I've found that hard to, how would I put that?

Bob Gentle:

Hard to trust.

Bob Gentle:

But I think when you meet somebody who embraces that,

Bob Gentle:

that's when you meet charisma.

John Ball:

That's definitely interesting and some nice stuff to think about and

John Ball:

probably for result to even aspire to.

John Ball:

One of the things that I love talking about on my show is charisma.

John Ball:

It's a particularly important factor for people like us for people who have

John Ball:

their own business and especially who are appearing on podcasts, hosting

John Ball:

their own podcast particularly.

John Ball:

I'm wondering for you since we are now on this show, focusing much

John Ball:

more on podcasting as the tool of influence, what first brought you

John Ball:

to podcasting and I'd, we'd love to really hear more about your journey

John Ball:

into podcasting and how that's evolved.

Bob Gentle:

I think for me, I, when I started my podcast, I was

Bob Gentle:

living in the northeast of Scotland, very remote and isolated from

Bob Gentle:

what you would call the industry.

Bob Gentle:

And if you're listening on audio making air quotes.

Bob Gentle:

And my business was entirely built through referrals, which a lot of

Bob Gentle:

people would think is brilliant.

Bob Gentle:

But when you live in a small town, if you are depending on referrals for your

Bob Gentle:

business to grow, you have a natural cap.

Bob Gentle:

On your business, you're gonna struggle to scale.

Bob Gentle:

And I knew that content and content marketing would allow me to scale.

Bob Gentle:

And there's also this whole thing of, well, maybe I, I'll be honest.

Bob Gentle:

When I started my podcast, it was purely from a content perspective.

Bob Gentle:

I wanted to create content, which would essentially build me an audience and

Bob Gentle:

that audience would want to hire me.

Bob Gentle:

Didn't work out like that.

Bob Gentle:

Initially what happened was I started interviewing people who became

Bob Gentle:

role models, who I learned from.

Bob Gentle:

And as I learned, my business pivoted and my podcast pivoted.

Bob Gentle:

The podcast for me was really the catalyst of a, a learning journey.

Bob Gentle:

I started to learn when I started to spend time with amazing people.

Bob Gentle:

This whole thing of your.

Bob Gentle:

Your income rises to the sum of the five people you spend most time with.

Bob Gentle:

I was spending most of time with some of the most incredible people in my industry,

Bob Gentle:

in the world on a very regular basis.

Bob Gentle:

so my business pivoted, and as a consequence, my business is

Bob Gentle:

completely transformed as more profitable and it's ever been.

Bob Gentle:

It's more productive than it's ever been.

Bob Gentle:

But more importantly, that education continues.

Bob Gentle:

In terms of influence, the podcast for me has been a game changer.

Bob Gentle:

I mean, I've gone from being somebody who nobody had ever heard of.

Bob Gentle:

I'm, if anybody had heard of me, probably for the wrong reasons, to walking into

Bob Gentle:

the room in social media marketing world, and the speakers running up to give me

Bob Gentle:

a hug in front of hundreds of people.

Bob Gentle:

And you think.

Bob Gentle:

What a difference a few years makes.

Bob Gentle:

so I can't even remember what your question was, Johnny, but

John Ball:

was, really about how you got, how you got into podcasts and like

John Ball:

what drew you to it in the first place.

John Ball:

So you, I think you have answered that in terms of, you saw it as a potential

John Ball:

content source or, or somewhere to where creating and distributing content, but

John Ball:

it's become a lot more than that for you.

John Ball:

I know that's from some of the conversations that,

John Ball:

that we've had over time.

John Ball:

We get things that there's a certain.

John Ball:

Sometimes a certain idea of, you're supposed to be a certain way to

John Ball:

be a podcast You're supposed to have a certain kind of personality.

John Ball:

And I think maybe just I was even chatting together is proof in itself that you don't

John Ball:

have to be one particular kind of person.

John Ball:

I I listen to your show a lot and I really enjoy it.

John Ball:

It's the personal brand entrepreneurship is, it's a really great podcast

John Ball:

and I am very selective about the shows that I listened to.

John Ball:

One of the things that I really appreciate it about it is it's,

John Ball:

for me, it's almost like vocal ASMR it's, your voice is so soothing and

John Ball:

there's a very chill start to it.

John Ball:

And I really like that.

John Ball:

I resonate with that a lot and I'm sure a lot of other people do too,

John Ball:

but you could have easily been tempted to try and sort of ramp it up and be

John Ball:

a bit more energized and see people.

John Ball:

But you know, that wouldn't really be you.

Bob Gentle:

I think this is the thing is the more I think I could easily pretend

Bob Gentle:

to be someone else, and I think this is important for everyone to hear, but

Bob Gentle:

the problem is if you pretend to be somebody else, you will attract people

Bob Gentle:

who are attracted to somebody else.

Bob Gentle:

They're not attracted to you for the right reasons, and the more you

Bob Gentle:

show up as authentically yourself, even if you feel that that's really

Bob Gentle:

awkward, even if you feel you should be someone else, the more you can do it.

Bob Gentle:

The more you will attract people who are attracted to you for who you are, they're

Bob Gentle:

gonna be pre-sold on your personality.

Bob Gentle:

They already know you.

Bob Gentle:

They already like you.

Bob Gentle:

They already trust what they will meet when they work with you.

John Ball:

Right.

Bob Gentle:

So authenticity really, really works.

Bob Gentle:

And I think a lot of people, again, this comes down to if you walk

Bob Gentle:

into a room with 50 people in it, there's this very small proportion

Bob Gentle:

of those people who will be into you.

Bob Gentle:

That's just the physics of relationships.

Bob Gentle:

But when you're walking into a room with thousands or tens of thousands

Bob Gentle:

of people as you are, when you go out with content marketing, there's gonna

Bob Gentle:

be a much larger number of people who are into you for who you actually are.

Bob Gentle:

So you can afford to show up as you knowing that you're not gonna be for

Bob Gentle:

90% of people and celebrate it cuz the numbers work very differently.

John Ball:

Yeah, I wonder if there's any element to which that your journey in

John Ball:

podcasting has helped you in some ways of figuring out more, like what's really

John Ball:

authentic to you and what is your style and what does and doesn't fit for you?

John Ball:

Cause I feel for me that's very much the case and probably continues to be so.

Bob Gentle:

It absolutely is.

Bob Gentle:

I think podcasting for me is now natural.

Bob Gentle:

It's like breathing.

Bob Gentle:

I feel really, really comfortable in the host role.

Bob Gentle:

I continue to struggle in a solo role.

Bob Gentle:

I would, I still struggle with solo podcasting, but bizarrely,

Bob Gentle:

I'm now doing video content on YouTube, and that for me is painful.

Bob Gentle:

it now less so, but I would urge anyone to go and look at my YouTube

Bob Gentle:

channel on the early videos.

Bob Gentle:

It's horrific.

Bob Gentle:

You can probably see a parallel to my podcast journey in the YouTube

Bob Gentle:

journey in that it's probably only now starting to look like it's

Bob Gentle:

vaguely natural and I'm enjoying it.

Bob Gentle:

It's, I think a lot of people when they come to podcasting and things

Bob Gentle:

like personal branding again and making air quotes, they think about

Bob Gentle:

the personality they need to create or what do I need to present in

Bob Gentle:

order to persuade or convince people.

Bob Gentle:

But actually for me, it's been much more of a process of sort of knocking off if,

Bob Gentle:

to use a sculpture analogy, you create a sculpture by removing, not by adding.

Bob Gentle:

And so the more you can take away the inauthenticity, the pretension

Bob Gentle:

the faking it, The things that you've probably always done, The more

Bob Gentle:

you come to actually who you are.

Bob Gentle:

And it's just as much work on the inside as it is in terms of

Bob Gentle:

what you're creating to put out.

Bob Gentle:

And I think if you keep those in balance, it's a very healthy thing.

John Ball:

It seems that more and more people are thinking

John Ball:

about starting podcasts.

John Ball:

I mean, I saw some statistics recently, which I'm pretty sure must have been asked

John Ball:

to a very select group of people where they said something like, nine out of 10

John Ball:

people are thinking of starting a podcast.

John Ball:

I think that can't be true.

John Ball:

I just can't imagine that nine out of 10 people and I if you went and asked

John Ball:

around Google or something that, and that was your point your, or anywhere in

John Ball:

probably Silicon Valley and you started asking people there probably, Yeah.

John Ball:

Or in LA where everyone wants to be famous.

John Ball:

Yeah.

John Ball:

Probably would get those sorts of figures.

John Ball:

But I think more generally, I doubt that it's anything like that high.

John Ball:

But then also I think, well, how many people say they want to be

John Ball:

an author and never write a book or anything So, so it could just.

John Ball:

Would you like to do that?

John Ball:

And perhaps, perhaps there are quite high figures for people who'd

John Ball:

like to do it, but probably won't.

John Ball:

But do you still think there is a very strong draw for people to come

John Ball:

into podcasting now, or do you feel that it is sort of wearing off and

John Ball:

that people aren't so attracted to it?

Bob Gentle:

I actually see podcasting as still a huge growth industry.

Bob Gentle:

if you look at the number of podcasts relative to the number of YouTube

Bob Gentle:

channels, then you would have to think we've only scratched the surface of what.

Bob Gentle:

Podcasting can achieve in terms of penetration.

Bob Gentle:

I think what I would say is if you're looking at getting into podcasting

Bob Gentle:

as somebody who wants to build a massive audience and monetize that

Bob Gentle:

massive audience through advertising and things like that, you're

Bob Gentle:

gonna have a very long journey.

Bob Gentle:

But if you take podcasts like mine and like yours, we're not for everyone.

Bob Gentle:

We're very, for a very small group of people.

Bob Gentle:

And if that's you, there is so much opportunity in podcasting.

Bob Gentle:

I have clients, I'm not a podcast coach at all but I do, my, my business

Bob Gentle:

is what you might call the leadership branding or personal branding space.

Bob Gentle:

And I work with people.

Bob Gentle:

To help them cultivate their personal brand, their visibility and their

Bob Gentle:

authority in lots of different ways.

Bob Gentle:

And some of those people are working with podcasts.

Bob Gentle:

And even now, I've one client who has gone from zero to the number one

Bob Gentle:

personal finance podcast in the UK in a matter of a couple of months.

Bob Gentle:

and it's changed his business.

Bob Gentle:

So, and that's a competitive space.

Bob Gentle:

So with the right, format and the right attitude and the attitude

Bob Gentle:

is important, you can still do it.

Bob Gentle:

Absolutely.

Bob Gentle:

And yeah, so much opportunity there.

John Ball:

This is, this has been one of the things that is why

John Ball:

people be seeing that this show is now called Podfluence rather than

John Ball:

Speaking Influence, which it was.

John Ball:

And speaking of influence before that, and let's not even go back to

John Ball:

what I first called the show, which was ridiculous, but That has been an

John Ball:

evolution in itself, but I recognize for me, that even then there was some fear

John Ball:

in nicheing down the target and scope of the show that I might limit myself too

John Ball:

much in what I speak about or the appeal that it would have to other people.

John Ball:

And yet now it, to me, it just, the direction that I'm going with this

John Ball:

just makes so much more sense to me.

John Ball:

But it has taken a long time to figure out and also for me to maybe.

John Ball:

Yeah, expression.

John Ball:

You have to kill your darlings.

John Ball:

Like I had to be willing to let go of stuff I was doing before and just maybe

John Ball:

let it die or just let it steep somewhere else for a while whilst I focus on this,

John Ball:

which is where things are happening and clearly what I get excited about talking.

John Ball:

Like I really love talking about the podcasting industry and I personally

John Ball:

think it's one of the best tools available for us right now to establish

John Ball:

thought leadership, to be able to have those interesting conversations

John Ball:

that we love to have and to be adding just substantial value to people in

John Ball:

particular niche areas do you think nicheing is essential now in podcasting?

John Ball:

Cause I think it hasn't been before, but I think maybe it might be.

Bob Gentle:

I would have to say, why would you not want to?

Bob Gentle:

If I think nicheing is a very easy thing to tell people to do, but it's

Bob Gentle:

a very hard thing to actually do.

Bob Gentle:

It's like eating vegetables and exercise.

Bob Gentle:

Yeah.

Bob Gentle:

It's, everybody knows that it's a good thing, but it's still hard because

Bob Gentle:

you're saying no to so many people that you know would be interested in you.

Bob Gentle:

You have a lot of value.

Bob Gentle:

Everybody has a spectrum of value.

Bob Gentle:

But to get down to the essence of who are you most valued to, and.

Bob Gentle:

Where does your fulfillment come in?

Bob Gentle:

That's really, really important.

Bob Gentle:

I think the real reason you need to niche but that's probably more true

Bob Gentle:

of podcasting than with a lot of things, is you want people with a very

Bob Gentle:

specific set of needs to discover you.

Bob Gentle:

And if you, the way I, I often speak about this is in terms of a signal.

Bob Gentle:

A signal has various components.

Bob Gentle:

It has a receiver and a transmitter.

Bob Gentle:

So there are receivers out there waiting for your signal.

Bob Gentle:

They have needs, but your signal is probably too diffuse

Bob Gentle:

for them to really pick up.

Bob Gentle:

They can't notice it.

Bob Gentle:

probably that signal's not very strong because you're not really committed.

Bob Gentle:

And a lot of the time the frequency is all wrong because

Bob Gentle:

you're never talking about it.

Bob Gentle:

So if you're not talking about it, you're not talking about it With

Bob Gentle:

any enthusiasm and more importantly, you've got a very narrow bandwidth so

Bob Gentle:

that your signal is very clear, then those people will receive your signal.

Bob Gentle:

So you need to set that beacon out into the world with an singular tone

Bob Gentle:

so that the only person who are going to their heads are gonna snap around

Bob Gentle:

to the people who just need that.

Bob Gentle:

This is the value of a niche.

Bob Gentle:

If you don't niche, you won't catch people's attention.

Bob Gentle:

From a business perspective, if you've got that niche, you've got

Bob Gentle:

one person with one set of needs, one consist problem, and you've got one

Bob Gentle:

way of consistently serving them that consistently meets their needs, so you

Bob Gentle:

then become a very attractive proposition for them as a service provider.

Bob Gentle:

So, and this is the thing in a local business setting where you've got a small

Bob Gentle:

catchment area and you need a lot of people to say yes to you in order to make

Bob Gentle:

a living, you can't afford to niche But when you're in a global market, actually

Bob Gentle:

you have to niche because it's more profitable, it's more productive, it's

Bob Gentle:

more fulfilling and it's easier to market because your signal is strong and clear.

John Ball:

I like that.

John Ball:

Yeah, definitely important to have that.

John Ball:

And that's the only way you can really cut through the noise of everything else

John Ball:

that's going on around, but, and there's a lot of it, there's a lot of noise.

John Ball:

You mentioned that people coming into podcast now have a big journey and I've

John Ball:

often said this myself, Well, this is not generally something you can just

John Ball:

come into and it just works and happens.

John Ball:

I mean, I'm sure that does happen on rare instances for some people that they just

John Ball:

have the right thing at the right time and there's already a following and it just

John Ball:

hits and connects and and does very well.

John Ball:

But I think that's probably rare.

John Ball:

But for most podcasters, it's a much longer journey and one that

John Ball:

maybe has ups and downs in it.

John Ball:

And I wonder what your own experience of that has been.

Bob Gentle:

I think I have a couple of perspectives on that.

Bob Gentle:

So most people come into podcasting because they want to build an audience

Bob Gentle:

because they want, the, their emphasis is really on what they can get from the

Bob Gentle:

podcast as an audience building tool.

Bob Gentle:

And I think when that's the case, they're often looking at it from

Bob Gentle:

the wrong perspective because that was my perspective and I feel it

Bob Gentle:

was a mistake to come into it with that, because on that side of things

Bob Gentle:

generally is going to be a long game.

Bob Gentle:

But if I look at where has the real value been for me in the

Bob Gentle:

podcast, Yes, now it's the audience.

Bob Gentle:

Now it's the recognition and the authority.

Bob Gentle:

But for the longest, Actually the real value was building relationships with

Bob Gentle:

people like you, with people who I would look up to as heroes with most of the

Bob Gentle:

authors of the books on my bookshelf.

Bob Gentle:

I can now count as friends and mentors, people that I could never

Bob Gentle:

have accessed in any other way.

Bob Gentle:

for me, that's been the real transformation in my business.

Bob Gentle:

it's, and That is not a long game.

Bob Gentle:

That is an immediate benefit that you can enjoy on day one.

Bob Gentle:

Because here's the thing.

Bob Gentle:

If I wanted, let's say I worked in telecoms and I wanted to sell telecoms

Bob Gentle:

systems to big or organizations, I can call them up and say, Hi, I'm

Bob Gentle:

Jimmy from the telecoms company.

Bob Gentle:

And they'll go, Ah, sorry.

Bob Gentle:

No.

Bob Gentle:

If I call up the chief of the IT division and I say, Hi, my name's Bob

Bob Gentle:

Gentle from the Global Telecom Show.

Bob Gentle:

I'd like to profile you on my podcast.

Bob Gentle:

He's gonna say, Tell me more.

Bob Gentle:

And at the end of that podcast interview, he's gonna say, So Jimmy, what is it?

Bob Gentle:

You do say, Well, I'm glad you asked.

Bob Gentle:

Bet.

Bob Gentle:

I provide telecom systems to the world's biggest companies.

Bob Gentle:

Oh wow.

Bob Gentle:

We have to speak.

Bob Gentle:

this is the immediate benefit that you can get from a podcast.

Bob Gentle:

Yes, it gives you content.

Bob Gentle:

For me, I think content is really important and

Bob Gentle:

audience is really important,

John Ball:

Yeah, it has to be that trust factor as well though, right?

John Ball:

I mean, when people get to know you a bit like you, you can't just randomly

John Ball:

really walk up to someone unless you are a very smooth operator and,

John Ball:

and just starting to that hey, you know, this is why I do this, what I'm

John Ball:

selling and here's why you buy it.

John Ball:

And that's, most cases probably not gonna work or have people trying

John Ball:

to get away from you very quickly.

John Ball:

But when you've created that relationship and given the sense of like, you're

John Ball:

not just there to to start, you can actually just have a conversation.

John Ball:

You've broken the ice, you've created almost a friend relationship there,

John Ball:

and that gives you the grounding to be able to have those potential sales

John Ball:

or opportunity based conversations, which you may never have had before.

Bob Gentle:

I think another to build on that, if I'm introducing myself

Bob Gentle:

as, let's say, how would I put this?

Bob Gentle:

So at the moment, If I'm comparing one potential supplier with another

Bob Gentle:

potential supplier, one potential supplier is perfectly competent.

Bob Gentle:

They take all the boxes.

Bob Gentle:

Another potential supplier is exactly the same, but the person offering it

Bob Gentle:

is from one of the leading podcasts.

Bob Gentle:

I go to check him out, think, wow, they know this person, and this person.

Bob Gentle:

They've moved from the ordinary to the unusual, to the

Bob Gentle:

exceptional, to the celebrity box.

Bob Gentle:

Now somebody's got to decide between the ordinary and the spectacular.

Bob Gentle:

Which one are they gonna pick?

Bob Gentle:

Which one carries more trust, more authority, more pod fluence.

Bob Gentle:

dare I say It's obvious which one you're gonna pick, so it's, it puts you in a

Bob Gentle:

category that's completely different from all your competitors almost immediately.

Bob Gentle:

You don't need to have been doing it for two years for that to be true.

John Ball:

Yeah, I've loved that podcasting has made me braver in some

John Ball:

ways because there are connections I will make there or thing, actions

John Ball:

that I will take, that I will do for the greater benefit of the show that

John Ball:

I probably wouldn't do otherwise.

John Ball:

And that has been very powerful for me.

John Ball:

And also I do those moments where I sit back and think, Oh, I was quite

John Ball:

brave I contacted someone who I never would've reached out to before.

John Ball:

And maybe they come back, maybe they don't.

John Ball:

But more often than not, they do.

John Ball:

And sometimes they even say yes to come in on the show as people would

John Ball:

see from my previous guest list.

John Ball:

I wonder for you, have there ever been any really challenging times

John Ball:

in your podcast journey where you are like, Oh, fuck this, I'm done.

Bob Gentle:

No, I'll be honest.

Bob Gentle:

I think quite the opposite.

Bob Gentle:

And I think this is probably what.

Bob Gentle:

I would warn against, there's been times where it's become really

Bob Gentle:

easy to the point where I think I need to level up a little bit.

Bob Gentle:

And so there was a period, for example, when I was doing my weekly show, my show's

Bob Gentle:

always been weekly thought, You know what?

Bob Gentle:

This is getting really easy.

Bob Gentle:

I had an editor and I really enjoyed it.

Bob Gentle:

Thought, you know what?

Bob Gentle:

I could do a daily show.

Bob Gentle:

and I toyed with that idea for a little bit and I nearly did it, but I had so

Bob Gentle:

many people telling me, No, don't do that.

Bob Gentle:

Do you've got this?

Bob Gentle:

Just get better at the interviews.

Bob Gentle:

Get better guests.

Bob Gentle:

put more care and attention into the show you've got.

Bob Gentle:

Make it as great as it possibly could be.

Bob Gentle:

The same is true of YouTube that I'm thinking.

Bob Gentle:

It's now getting easy to the point where this doesn't really

Bob Gentle:

occupy an awful lot of my time.

Bob Gentle:

How can I make it really hard for myself again?

Bob Gentle:

that's probably where I struggle more.

John Ball:

Right.

John Ball:

Yeah.

John Ball:

That, that's interesting.

John Ball:

That's interesting to me.

John Ball:

I think for me it's hard to Say exactly why I've kept

John Ball:

going with the show as I have.

John Ball:

But I am glad that I did because there have been times where I've been

John Ball:

like, Why am I doing this Or is a lot of it feels like a lot of effort

John Ball:

for not always a lot of results.

John Ball:

But when I look at some of the things you mentioned, like the network that I've

John Ball:

built up through this, the connections that I've made the audience that is

John Ball:

following this show, and then for those of you who are enlisting, I really appreciate

John Ball:

you and thank you for tuning in.

John Ball:

But you don't always think about that when you're making the show because

John Ball:

you're in, you are in the process of it.

John Ball:

You're not, you don't have those people gathered around you to that are watching

John Ball:

it or that you don't have expectant faces.

John Ball:

When you walk out into a stage to deliver a talk.

John Ball:

It's a very different somewhat hermetic process.

John Ball:

I think.

Bob Gentle:

I think what I would say is the reason I found my podcast easy is

Bob Gentle:

because I quite intentionally designed a podcast that I would enjoy doing.

Bob Gentle:

That for me, I get to speak to people that I'm genuinely interested in and

Bob Gentle:

genuinely curious about every single week.

Bob Gentle:

And there is a, joy in that that eclipses any stress or trauma that

Bob Gentle:

there might be cuz there is stress and trauma from time to time.

John Ball:

Yeah.

Bob Gentle:

But for me, the podcast is a joy, and this is again,

Bob Gentle:

an important thing that, as.

Bob Gentle:

Interest and your curiosities change.

Bob Gentle:

Let your podcast change.

Bob Gentle:

Don't feel that just because that's the podcast you started.

Bob Gentle:

That's the podcast you have to do.

Bob Gentle:

It's your forever show.

Bob Gentle:

It shouldn't be The podcast is an outlet for curiosity for me, and so as

Bob Gentle:

my curiosity and my enthusiasms and my passions change, my podcast will sort of

Bob Gentle:

pivot and tilt to the wind, so to speak.

John Ball:

Mm.

John Ball:

It's interesting you seemly started your show with a business mindset.

John Ball:

I certainly did not.

John Ball:

And so people who've tuned, people who've tuned into my show before will know that

John Ball:

I started this show as a project in my Toastmasters club be, but I had been

John Ball:

thinking about doing a podcast for the longest time, and I had done a podcast

John Ball:

back in 2012, which didn't last very long.

John Ball:

And I always wanted to come back to it.

John Ball:

But you know, I did it completely in ignorance, just sort of think I had no

John Ball:

idea how to do it other than having a microphone and that I was gonna video

John Ball:

it and put it on YouTube as well.

John Ball:

And had no idea about podcast networks.

John Ball:

I really knew nothing much about podcasting.

John Ball:

And so the whole learning curve was really, really steep.

John Ball:

And I think that, Probably one of my biggest challenges in podcasting

John Ball:

because I just decided to keep going.

John Ball:

I had fun with it.

John Ball:

I went from monthly to biweekly to weekly episodes and that all evolved as well.

John Ball:

But it took me a long time to start thinking of it as something that might

John Ball:

actually be professionally beneficial to me and worth focusing on in a business

John Ball:

sense, especially as I didn't think there was really ever gonna be much

John Ball:

chance of making money from the show.

John Ball:

Because certainly a few years back, you only ever heard about people getting

John Ball:

sponsorships for the shows, and you had to have very big download numbers to be

John Ball:

able to look at those kinds of options.

John Ball:

So, so you had a plan when you started that, but what did that look like?

John Ball:

What did your launch plan for your show look like?

Bob Gentle:

I think I, I don't like big launches and I think like a lot

Bob Gentle:

of introverts, I, when I launched my show, it was a very soft launch.

Bob Gentle:

There was no fanfare, no big launch party, nothing like that.

Bob Gentle:

It was just quietly pop it up on iTunes and see what happens.

Bob Gentle:

and that was fine.

Bob Gentle:

And I think for a lot of people, like me, they're very anxious about

Bob Gentle:

what people will think of them.

Bob Gentle:

Being a podcaster, check him out, thinking he's all fancy.

Bob Gentle:

but you don't have to tell anyone.

Bob Gentle:

You don't have to make a big fanfare if you design your podcast

Bob Gentle:

so it brings genuine value to people who have a specific need.

Bob Gentle:

They'll find it, they'll find it on an Apple Podcasts on and Spotify

Bob Gentle:

without you having to go ram it down their necks so that's pretty

Bob Gentle:

much how I launched the podcast.

Bob Gentle:

Now I'm much more confident with it because I know it meets a genuine need.

Bob Gentle:

But back then it was just a vanity project really.

John Ball:

what are some of the things that you perhaps didn't know when

John Ball:

you started your show that you have that have been important for you to

John Ball:

learn and realize on your journey?

Bob Gentle:

I didn't know how much I knew.

Bob Gentle:

I didn't anticipate, and again, this is gonna be true for most people, not

Bob Gentle:

just me, but the difference between pre podcast Bob and the people who

Bob Gentle:

are sitting on the shelves of my bookshelf, the only difference is action.

Bob Gentle:

It's not intelligence, it's not knowledge, it's not experience, it's action.

Bob Gentle:

And if I had, I'll tell you a story, Johnny, you will really enjoy this.

Bob Gentle:

I probably bought my podcast microphone four or five years

Bob Gentle:

before I started the podcast.

Bob Gentle:

That's how long the gestation period was.

Bob Gentle:

And I.

Bob Gentle:

This is why for me, action is so important now that a lot of people,

Bob Gentle:

they spend so much time not moving because they don't have a big plan.

Bob Gentle:

They don't have all the pieces in place that they never take a any action at all.

Bob Gentle:

Because here's the thing, all the pieces are never in place, ever.

Bob Gentle:

even in I made a YouTube video today, although I was looking for some

Bob Gentle:

content ideas and I got distracted and I started scrolling through YouTube

Bob Gentle:

and I came across a YouTube video if you're listening to this, at the

Bob Gentle:

beginning, at the end of April, 2022.

Bob Gentle:

Then Johnny Dep and,

John Ball:

Amber

Bob Gentle:

Amber heard busy knocking bits of out of each other

Bob Gentle:

in court at the moment, and Johnny Depp was asked what he thought of

Bob Gentle:

the Pirates of the Caribbean movie.

Bob Gentle:

He said, You know what?

Bob Gentle:

I've never seen the Pirates of the Caribbean movie because

Bob Gentle:

he couldn't watch it and.

Bob Gentle:

It reminded me of something that I'd heard I was that if you're listening

Bob Gentle:

in the UK, you'll know who Blur are.

Bob Gentle:

One of the biggest bands of the nineties and the drummer from Blur was in a

Bob Gentle:

room with some of his biggest fans, and the experiment was, let's see what

Bob Gentle:

happens when this guy listens to his own biggest selling album with some

Bob Gentle:

of the people who love it the most.

Bob Gentle:

And he admitted, You know what?

Bob Gentle:

I never listened to this album because all I can hear are the flaws.

Bob Gentle:

And if that's true of Johnny Depp and the biggest drummer from the biggest

Bob Gentle:

rock band in the world, what chance have we got to love what we hear and expect

Bob Gentle:

that we're going to see it as perfect?

Bob Gentle:

It's gonna be rubbish.

Bob Gentle:

Everybody is.

Bob Gentle:

Every artist is going to look at their own work and see only its flaws.

Bob Gentle:

So don't wait for perfection.

Bob Gentle:

Jump into it knowing that it's always going to be rubbish.

Bob Gentle:

You will always think it's rubbish and embrace it.

John Ball:

Yeah

Bob Gentle:

the action.

Bob Gentle:

And that's where all the, that's where the, magic happens.

John Ball:

that's a great thing to highlight.

John Ball:

and it was one of the things that was coming up for me when you were mentioning

John Ball:

about your YouTube stuff and some of your not so long ago YouTube stuff you

John Ball:

were describing as sort of been crap.

John Ball:

And I'm thinking, well, I've seen some of that and it's really not, your

John Ball:

stuff has got better, but from your own perspective, you look back and think,

John Ball:

Oh, you know what, I'm a lot better at this now than I was when I started.

John Ball:

So I look back on that and think, well, that was crap.

John Ball:

That was where I, but that's where you were then.

John Ball:

But there, there will be plenty of people who would look at that and.

John Ball:

It's not crap.

John Ball:

Bob It's actually pretty good because it's better than a lot.

John Ball:

But, so it is really just from our own perspective when we look at the

John Ball:

stuff we do, because hopefully we are always growing and learning and

John Ball:

developing and getting better at the things we do, we probably should look

John Ball:

back and think, Yeah, what I did before wasn't as good as what I'm doing now.

John Ball:

How could it be?

John Ball:

But you have to do that stuff to get to where you are now and from

John Ball:

where you're gonna be in the future.

John Ball:

It's the action thing that you said.

Bob Gentle:

Yeah.

Bob Gentle:

I think that's the price of being good is you have to embrace being garbage.

Bob Gentle:

That's just, that's what it costs.

Bob Gentle:

but here's the thing, you don't have to be good for it to work.

Bob Gentle:

My first podcast interviews were probably terrible, but I still got to promote

Bob Gentle:

the fact that I was speaking to this person on a podcast show to LinkedIn

Bob Gentle:

and people who I knew were going, Maybe I misjudge Bob and the phone would

Bob Gentle:

ring and I would have a new customer.

Bob Gentle:

And that continues to happen every day.

Bob Gentle:

Like you, I don't have huge download numbers on my podcast.

Bob Gentle:

they're ahead of the industry norm for a show in my niche.

Bob Gentle:

But even though the numbers are low, it still works for me tremendously.

Bob Gentle:

Well, if I post my show on LinkedIn for example, I can be pretty sure that

Bob Gentle:

somebody's gonna reach out who again, they might have known me for years.

Bob Gentle:

These are another good story that this isn't a podcast story, but it's a video

Bob Gentle:

story, but it's the same thing is true.

Bob Gentle:

There are people who have known me probably for 20 years and because

Bob Gentle:

they've known me for 20 years, they still think of me the way they met

Bob Gentle:

me the first day, which was a young guy running web design company and.

Bob Gentle:

Yeah, I don't really rate him well.

Bob Gentle:

Things have changed, but the thing is, if you never show up in people's

Bob Gentle:

lives, you never influence them.

Bob Gentle:

So I posted a couple of YouTube videos onto LinkedIn, and

Bob Gentle:

suddenly the phones ringing.

Bob Gentle:

Two in one week, two people who in my, the city that I used to live in, these

Bob Gentle:

were two of the biggest, most charismatic business owners in the city, who I

Bob Gentle:

thought actually really didn't like me.

Bob Gentle:

They called me up and said, We love what you're doing.

Bob Gentle:

I really need to talk to you.

Bob Gentle:

I need your help.

Bob Gentle:

So I've gone from the very back in terms of being able to help them to the only

Bob Gentle:

person that can help them through content.

Bob Gentle:

Content will completely change how people perceive you.

Bob Gentle:

Because if you're not shaping that perception, well, what's

Bob Gentle:

doing the shaping for you?

Bob Gentle:

Their false memories, their assumptions, and what other people have said about

Bob Gentle:

you, if you don't control what people are thinking about you, they'll fill the gap.

John Ball:

Yeah.

John Ball:

Yeah, that's, it's interesting.

John Ball:

I've often said that my earliest YouTube stuff was.

John Ball:

Bad.

John Ball:

Like bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.

John Ball:

And, and it was, I mean, I had no clue what I was doing.

John Ball:

I was probably really inauthentic trying to be something,

John Ball:

someone who I really wasn't.

John Ball:

So it wasn't very natural either.

John Ball:

I got caught out on all that stuff.

John Ball:

But, I do remember doing a video that was like some personal development stuff.

John Ball:

I was, I just gonna put this out there.

John Ball:

I had this idea.

John Ball:

It was really enjoying it.

John Ball:

It was based on some stuff that someone else had shared and I thought, let's

John Ball:

just put it out there and left it.

John Ball:

Probably thought nothing of it, but probably I think something

John Ball:

like five years later, somebody had seen that and contacted me and

John Ball:

wanted to work with me as a client.

John Ball:

And, well, you just, you just never know.

John Ball:

And so I'm thinking compared to what I would do now on

John Ball:

YouTube, that stuff was crap.

John Ball:

But it.

John Ball:

got someone's attention.

John Ball:

It still had value to someone.

John Ball:

And so we shouldn't judge ourselves always too harshly.

John Ball:

You have to get the stuff out there and get connected with people and that's how

John Ball:

you, that's how you make a difference.

John Ball:

And hopefully we get better at that as we go along.

Bob Gentle:

I mean, I've, I remember it was just a couple of years ago,

Bob Gentle:

I wish I could remember who it was.

Bob Gentle:

Like I mentioned, I built my business through networking events.

Bob Gentle:

And somebody, I wish I could remember who it was, told me that I'd said something

Bob Gentle:

at a networking event probably 20 years ago that had shaped her entire future,

Bob Gentle:

Her whole life had changed on that day.

Bob Gentle:

I didn't remember it as whole.

Bob Gentle:

You cannot make any assumptions about what people will take away from what You see.

Bob Gentle:

and for me, there's something that's profoundly important and it's you

Bob Gentle:

and I, we both know Chris Ducker.

Bob Gentle:

Something that he said.

Bob Gentle:

A lot of people misunderstood, possibly including him.

Bob Gentle:

He says, You need to market like a magnet to attract the best and repel the rest.

Bob Gentle:

This is something that he's used in a couple of books, I think.

Bob Gentle:

But what a lot of people take from that is the attraction side of things.

Bob Gentle:

They think I need to attract the very best people.

Bob Gentle:

But what they don't understand is the importance of pushing away.

Bob Gentle:

And in physics, there's this whole e equals mc squared.

Bob Gentle:

For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction.

Bob Gentle:

So if you want people to be strongly attracted to you, you have to

Bob Gentle:

celebrate actively pushing others away.

Bob Gentle:

And so this may puts you in a very delicious space where you get to choose

Bob Gentle:

who you attract and who you push away.

Bob Gentle:

So what that means is, if I'm going to be pushing people away and I'm going

Bob Gentle:

to be attracting people, wouldn't it be good if the people who were attracted

Bob Gentle:

were attracted to what's actually here?

Bob Gentle:

And it becomes, For, me, that was one of the most liberating things when

Bob Gentle:

I understood one third of people.

Bob Gentle:

They're just not gonna like me.

Bob Gentle:

Doesn't matter what I do, I can scale up my content to the point where I've got

Bob Gentle:

millions of YouTube subscribers, but one third of those people will not like me.

Bob Gentle:

So how about I make content specifically for the third, that

Bob Gentle:

I'm really, really into the people who like me for the right reasons.

Bob Gentle:

If they met me in the street, they'd still like me.

Bob Gentle:

and that's, I guess why, that's what allowed me to really relax into

Bob Gentle:

the podcast and not feel I had to pretend to be, somebody that I was

Bob Gentle:

just always gonna find it work to be.

John Ball:

Hmm.

John Ball:

We have in our industry a lot of negative association with the word influencer.

John Ball:

Maybe it's justly, maybe it's rightly and from things that have been done

John Ball:

and the abuse of that term over time.

John Ball:

But I don't I dunno, I've yet to be able to find out a word that,

John Ball:

works better or equally as well.

John Ball:

I think it's something that we, it's just gonna have to work on reclaiming

John Ball:

and moving away from that, instagram shiny influencer thing that has given

John Ball:

in being an influencer, a bad name in the past, and that people are not

John Ball:

wanting to be associated with it.

John Ball:

If you or anyone else has better suggestions as to another word to use

John Ball:

instead that is just as effective, then I'm definitely open to that.

John Ball:

But, it's a, it, is really still about becoming an influencer And when

John Ball:

we talk about this show but we're talking about influence and persuasion.

John Ball:

If you're gonna have influence, you have to become an influencer.

John Ball:

You have to get yourself into a position, be a part of the

John Ball:

conversation, be part of where people are looking to for information.

John Ball:

Be someone who is out there sharing and adding, hopefully adding

John Ball:

and contributing to be in that.

John Ball:

And part of that is influencing and being, an influencer.

Bob Gentle:

I think you're right.

Bob Gentle:

I've also thought influencer is a difficult word to find a replacement

Bob Gentle:

for, and it's often misunderstood.

Bob Gentle:

It's a little bit like celebrity.

Bob Gentle:

and if you, if I've met a couple of people who've thought, who've expressed

Bob Gentle:

the desire to become influencers, and their idea of what that meant

Bob Gentle:

was completely different to mine.

Bob Gentle:

The word leader for me, works a little better.

Bob Gentle:

Vi visible leadership.

Bob Gentle:

that's probably getting closer to the meaning, but it is a tough one.

Bob Gentle:

I think if this whole thing of great leaders don't tell you what

Bob Gentle:

to do, they show you what to do.

Bob Gentle:

I think this for me is influence somebody who is showing you their workings

Bob Gentle:

to use the math teacher's analogy.

Bob Gentle:

somebody who's doing the work and not just talking about doing the work.

Bob Gentle:

And you can see that that's happening.

Bob Gentle:

or thought leader is another one I've had when there was a brief period

Bob Gentle:

where I had a PR division to my company and people would come to us

Bob Gentle:

and say, I wanna be a thought leader.

Bob Gentle:

Make me a thought leader.

Bob Gentle:

And he Oh, okay.

Bob Gentle:

What they wanted, what they were understanding was we were gonna write

Bob Gentle:

them some blog posts and that was gonna make them a thought leader.

Bob Gentle:

Thought leadership is where you lead with your thinking.

Bob Gentle:

You express yourself, you create content.

Bob Gentle:

This is what creates thought leadership and has influence.

Bob Gentle:

So yeah, having a large Instagram account doesn't mean you're influencing anybody.

Bob Gentle:

It just means you're creating an impression.

Bob Gentle:

It's different thing.

Bob Gentle:

and I think you're a billboard.

Bob Gentle:

You're not an influencer as such.

John Ball:

Yeah, that, that makes a lot of sense to me.

John Ball:

And I'm very aware as someone who's been very much in public speaking

John Ball:

space as well as podcasting that.

John Ball:

leadership is a huge part of the influence and persuasion thing.

John Ball:

And that, you know, we think about, a lot of times in the show we'll talk

John Ball:

about things like rhetoric and we'll talk about all the different tools

John Ball:

and aspects of influence, persuasion.

John Ball:

And one of the most fascinating parts of me is how that is used in leadership.

John Ball:

We see it in politics every single day.

John Ball:

Leadership is essential to this.

John Ball:

And we, I guess we just don't necessarily have that common connection

John Ball:

between being someone who is a thought leader and, or influencer and

John Ball:

being a sort of more general leader.

John Ball:

That there's, we have different interpretations.

John Ball:

This.

John Ball:

so much.

John Ball:

This does just come down to how do we actually understand those words

John Ball:

and the different meanings and associations that get attached to

John Ball:

things over time and they change.

John Ball:

Language evolves, meanings change.

John Ball:

but, you specifically have been moving yourself away or starting to move away

John Ball:

from being a personal branding expert.

John Ball:

to a leader, brand expert.

John Ball:

And I would like just to give you the opportunity to tell us a little

John Ball:

bit more about why that's the case and what that means for you.

Bob Gentle:

I think personal branding as such is the space that I've been focused

Bob Gentle:

on probably for the last year or so, and the, if you to ask anybody what's

Bob Gentle:

the definition of a brand, they'll tell you that a brand is what people say

Bob Gentle:

about you when you're not in the room.

Bob Gentle:

It's actually quite passive.

Bob Gentle:

It's everybody has a brand.

Bob Gentle:

You have a brand, I have a brand, my dog has a brand.

Bob Gentle:

the personal brand.

Bob Gentle:

is a passive thing.

Bob Gentle:

a le a leader brand is really the where I'm leaning now in terms of my niche,

Bob Gentle:

so to speak, because I want to work with people who want to take that in hand.

Bob Gentle:

They don't want to, they don't want to leave it to chance, but alongside that,

Bob Gentle:

they don't want to cultivate an artificial one, which is something that I see a lot.

Bob Gentle:

it's very similar to the word influence.

Bob Gentle:

Now you'll see personal brand creeping into the public lexicon as

Bob Gentle:

an artificial front, and I don't want to be associated with that at all.

Bob Gentle:

For me, personal branding goes hand in hand with personal development

Bob Gentle:

and actually doing the work to understand who you are in order that

Bob Gentle:

you present a, that you're not only presenting yourself as authentic.

Bob Gentle:

But that you're getting closer and closer to what that actually

Bob Gentle:

is in genuine terms for yourself.

Bob Gentle:

That there's an acceptance of who you are alongside a greater presentation of it.

Bob Gentle:

And this is important for a lot of reasons that, if you are running

Bob Gentle:

a large organization, for example, everybody's working remotely,

Bob Gentle:

we've got things like artificial intelligence coming down the line.

Bob Gentle:

Virtual reality and organizations are becoming further and further away from

Bob Gentle:

the people they serve, but they're also becoming further and further

Bob Gentle:

away from the people who serve them.

Bob Gentle:

And what that means for organizations is there's no loyalty from consumers anymore.

Bob Gentle:

But there's also a real danger that there's no loyalty from

Bob Gentle:

your own team anymore because there's no relationship there.

Bob Gentle:

The ties that bind, they're all afraid and loose.

Bob Gentle:

And something that I'm seeing is really becoming true, and this is particularly

Bob Gentle:

the case, be through things like new privacy regulations and artificial

Bob Gentle:

intelligence and virtual reality that the way that we used to connect with them,

Bob Gentle:

connect with our customers through things like targeting and that kind of thing.

Bob Gentle:

It's not gonna be possible anymore.

Bob Gentle:

And so the companies that are gonna win are gonna be the companies that

Bob Gentle:

create the strongest sense of belonging.

Bob Gentle:

And that's both in terms of attracting customers, but also

Bob Gentle:

attracting and retaining your own team if everything else is equal.

Bob Gentle:

Where do I feel genuinely at home?

Bob Gentle:

And this is where leadership and leader brand really comes in, that people.

Bob Gentle:

Need the tools and the wherewithal to show up internally and externally

Bob Gentle:

in ways they've never had to before.

Bob Gentle:

But they're also not going to be able to hide behind memos and corporate videos.

Bob Gentle:

They're going to need to present authentically and with a sense,

Bob Gentle:

with a degree of humility because this is what's going to work.

Bob Gentle:

And I dunno, have you seen the film Ready Player One?

John Ball:

I have.

Bob Gentle:

So at the End of Ready Player one, there's a huge

Bob Gentle:

virtual community rallying around one character to support him.

Bob Gentle:

And I think why would they do that?

Bob Gentle:

And it's because of the leader brand that he cultivated in that film.

Bob Gentle:

In a virtual environment, authenticity, charisma, mission,

Bob Gentle:

he was clearly embracing his own hero's journey with humility.

Bob Gentle:

His so charismatic.

Bob Gentle:

This is what I'm looking at with Leader brand.

Bob Gentle:

It's how to help large organizations cultivate that

Bob Gentle:

kind of energy, for themselves.

Bob Gentle:

So it goes way beyond personal branding.

Bob Gentle:

It's much more about the magic in the background rather than

Bob Gentle:

trying to fake it in the front.

John Ball:

Yeah.

John Ball:

I wonder from your perspective then, where does that really need to happen?

John Ball:

You said about people needing to get in their own heroes journey, We've

John Ball:

talked about how like podcasting has been part of that evolution for us and

John Ball:

figuring ourselves out and getting into that authenticity state, and how do you

John Ball:

then go about helping a business or a business owner to figure that stuff out?

John Ball:

for themselves?

Bob Gentle:

Here's the good thing.

Bob Gentle:

When you create content, everything that we've just discussed, once you start

Bob Gentle:

putting it out there that this is a thing and it's available and you talk about it

Bob Gentle:

often enough, you become known for it.

Bob Gentle:

And the people who need to hear about it will find you.

Bob Gentle:

And this is what I'd like everyone to understand.

Bob Gentle:

Marketing doesn't have to be about pushing things at people.

Bob Gentle:

It's simply setting a fire so that the right people see it.

Bob Gentle:

So if you talk about something regularly, if you're seen to be

Bob Gentle:

on a mission, if there's a passion there, the right people see it.

Bob Gentle:

And enough for me.

John Ball:

I want to bring things back to the podcasting thing because I

John Ball:

think it's such an important thing to be focused on it, and really it's one

John Ball:

of the reasons why I sort of niche the focus of this show a little bit more

John Ball:

and want to have more conversations with people who are in podcasting to,

John Ball:

to really understand like, what are they getting out of it and why would

John Ball:

other people want to be coming into it?

John Ball:

How important do you think it is now for a business owner, for someone

John Ball:

who is a business leader, to be thinking about having a podcast

John Ball:

as part of their professional?

John Ball:

e.

Bob Gentle:

I think it's extremely important but I understand why a lot

Bob Gentle:

of people are intimidated by it because it's very, Most people's reaction

Bob Gentle:

when I suggest a podcast is imposter syndrome immediately, or, I dunno if

Bob Gentle:

I could do that because I dunno if I know enough, I couldn't go out and

Bob Gentle:

talk to some of the smartest people in the world in my industry because

Bob Gentle:

it'll be quickly apparent that I don't know everything I possibly claim to.

Bob Gentle:

And what I would urge those people is to approach it from

Bob Gentle:

a very different perspective.

Bob Gentle:

Approach it from the perspective of being a student about making your

Bob Gentle:

curiosity visible and celebrating that.

Bob Gentle:

I don't know that much about the leadership business space.

Bob Gentle:

I honestly don't.

Bob Gentle:

However, knowing that I want to move into talking much more about

Bob Gentle:

leadership in order to further my goals for Leader brand, I'm going to

Bob Gentle:

be reaching out and connecting with and bringing on as guests, experts from.

Bob Gentle:

The leadership space in the world.

Bob Gentle:

So like the biggest names.

Bob Gentle:

But I'm going into those conversations with complete humility.

Bob Gentle:

What my friend Neil would call asking the da laddy questions

Bob Gentle:

because he was a senior policeman.

Bob Gentle:

So you always asked the DAF laddy questions because that's what people

Bob Gentle:

love to listen to because those are the questions they want to hear answered.

Bob Gentle:

Cuz they've got the da la questions too.

Bob Gentle:

So if you're asking the questions that your listeners want to hear,

Bob Gentle:

then you're pitching it, right?

Bob Gentle:

So if you're going into it trying to look clever, trying to look like the

Bob Gentle:

expert, you're gonna struggle because your guests will always know more than you do.

Bob Gentle:

They're always smarter than you are a present company accepted.

Bob Gentle:

Um, but that is the right attitude to go into a podcast with.

Bob Gentle:

And if you go into it with that attitude, You're always going to look good.

Bob Gentle:

You're gonna look respectful.

Bob Gentle:

You're gonna look like the host.

Bob Gentle:

I mean, any TV talk show host will tell you they're usually, they're the only

Bob Gentle:

person on that show that's done nothing really, other than have a talk show.

Bob Gentle:

It's, but they become synonymous with the celebrity of their guests

Bob Gentle:

and that's where the real value is.

John Ball:

So I get interesting perspectives from different

John Ball:

people that I speak to.

John Ball:

And over the last couple of months I've had a lot of people who are professionals

John Ball:

in the world of podcasting who are known in podcasting in general, and

John Ball:

also people who are very successful podcasters, rather than necessarily

John Ball:

teaching things about podcasting.

John Ball:

And so the perspectives seem to be quite different as to the

John Ball:

benefits on what, what is the best.

John Ball:

sort of position to go to.

John Ball:

But if it was a choice for you between being a guest or being a

John Ball:

host and you could only do one or the other, which would you choose?

Bob Gentle:

Host a hundred percent.

Bob Gentle:

Because I get to choose, I get to choose my journey.

Bob Gentle:

I get to choose my story.

Bob Gentle:

I get to follow my curiosity.

Bob Gentle:

If I had to choose between all of the things that have happened

Bob Gentle:

to me through the podcast that aren't to do with the audience.

Bob Gentle:

I mean, here's the thing.

Bob Gentle:

My podcast would've been a success if nobody had ever listened.

Bob Gentle:

That's the thing.

Bob Gentle:

And that would not be the same if I were guessing on other people's shows.

Bob Gentle:

that's where I would come back to.

John Ball:

Yeah.

John Ball:

I know.

John Ball:

I think that as, as well, I think, I love being a guest on other people's

John Ball:

shows and I'm always fascinated to see what kind of questions people

John Ball:

are gonna ask me, and that you get challenged to think on your feet.

John Ball:

I also think it gives you opportunities to develop how you communicate.

John Ball:

maybe you find this is a, this is I'm gonna talk about podcast editing for

John Ball:

a moment because it's not something that really gets thought by very much.

John Ball:

And I know you don't really edit your own show anymore.

John Ball:

You get someone else to do that.

John Ball:

But you have edited podcasts and when you do edit things like a podcast

John Ball:

conversation, you immediately start to notice how much people say the same

John Ball:

kinds of things over and over again.

John Ball:

You'll hear a lot of, you know, you'll hear a lot of like, you'll

John Ball:

hear kind of these expressions that get said over and over again that we

John Ball:

are not really consciously aware of.

John Ball:

They're filler words they're like uns and rs, but they're.

John Ball:

They sound like they're part of the conversation, but they're not.

John Ball:

And I always try to work more myself more consciously towards having

John Ball:

pauses and speaking more clearly than trying to, I'm sure I have plenty

John Ball:

of those ette still, but I try to avoid them as much as possible.

John Ball:

So I'd rather take that pause.

John Ball:

And I think people are still generally afraid of having those

John Ball:

pauses, perhaps more so on a podcast because there's this idea that it's

John Ball:

dead air whilst you're having a conversation, but of course it's fine.

John Ball:

In fact, it's beneficial I think, to have those pauses.

John Ball:

But I just wonder if there are things like that that you've picked up on

John Ball:

through the logistical side of podcasting

Bob Gentle:

a couple.

Bob Gentle:

One is always tell your guest how long the show is at the beginning.

Bob Gentle:

because people will assume wildly different things.

Bob Gentle:

I had one podcast guest who by the time we got to 40 minutes, it became

Bob Gentle:

apparent he was, he had an agenda, he was telling a very particular story,

Bob Gentle:

and he wasn't even halfway through.

Bob Gentle:

alternatively, you'll start an interview assuming that you're having a 40 minute

Bob Gentle:

conversation only to discover the guest that only allocated 20 minutes.

Bob Gentle:

and, and so that's probably the biggest thing for me.

Bob Gentle:

in, In terms of the editing, I make sure I give people quite a comprehensive

Bob Gentle:

pre-flight briefing so that they're properly put at ease beforehand.

Bob Gentle:

I think some podcasters will, sometimes particularly, Inexperienced

Bob Gentle:

guests roll into the show too quickly without having built up

Bob Gentle:

the rapport before you hit record.

Bob Gentle:

at the same time, if you've got a, a very, how would I put this?

Bob Gentle:

If It's a big name guest and you know, they're a big name, don't waste 20

Bob Gentle:

minutes on small talk when they've, they've done this a hundred times.

Bob Gentle:

Uh, just get into the show as quickly as possible and respect their time.

Bob Gentle:

Um, you you need to know who you're talking to, um, and take care

Bob Gentle:

over those people who need care.

Bob Gentle:

But if somebody's a pro, treat them as a pro and get them straight into it.

Bob Gentle:

Um,

John Ball:

It's wise words and stuff that you have to sometimes figure out on the

John Ball:

journey, but great if you have that kind of knowledge and information and advance,

John Ball:

I think it's particularly helpful.

John Ball:

You know, I've learned more and more on the journey how important it is

John Ball:

to have guests feeling as relaxed as possible in the conversation.

John Ball:

Not just because it gets people to open up more, but because you actually

John Ball:

start to enjoy the conversation a lot more when it's relaxed.

John Ball:

And that doesn't always happen.

John Ball:

You're not always gonna click and gel with everybody who you speak to

John Ball:

and some people more than others.

John Ball:

But the better you get at that, the more likely that that's going to happen.

John Ball:

You know?

John Ball:

I mean, just this morning I was doing another recording and it started off.

John Ball:

Not cold, but a bit.

John Ball:

The rapport developed very much throughout the conversation.

John Ball:

And as things got more comfortable and as the guest was having more

John Ball:

fun with the show the conversation got more engaging, more interesting.

John Ball:

It's like, okay.

John Ball:

I started off being like, Oh, is this gonna be a good show or not?

John Ball:

To being like, Oh yeah, this is great.

John Ball:

This is fantastic.

John Ball:

I didn't have to worry about that so much with you, Bob,

John Ball:

because we, we know each other.

John Ball:

But I think, coming onto this thinking, Maybe, maybe want to have a reasonable

John Ball:

approach of perhaps every guest, you should be thinking of them as like a

John Ball:

friend that you've known for a long time.

John Ball:

Not to be cheeky and over familiar with them.

John Ball:

You still have to be respectful.

John Ball:

And as you say with big NA guests, you might not really be able to do that.

John Ball:

They might actually take it and cry quite personally, but in most situations

John Ball:

it probably isn't a bad approach to how just aim for the friendliness, the

John Ball:

connection, the fireside chat kind of approach that like you're going for a

John Ball:

coffee, going for a beer or whatever.

John Ball:

Those are the kinds of conversations that can be much more fun listen

John Ball:

to and in my opinion anyway.

Bob Gentle:

I think with the bigger name guests.

Bob Gentle:

You create your connection slightly differently.

Bob Gentle:

In my experience that most of the big name guests that I have on the show beforehand,

Bob Gentle:

I will make sure I do my research.

Bob Gentle:

I will at least have read an outline of their book, for

Bob Gentle:

example, if not the actual book.

Bob Gentle:

Um, and it will have had an impact.

Bob Gentle:

And I'll make sure I tell them that, so that they're in a positive frame of

Bob Gentle:

mind and they don't come on the show thinking, Does this guy have any idea.

Bob Gentle:

who I am?

Bob Gentle:

Um, so let them know they're in a friendly place.

Bob Gentle:

That goes a long way.

John Ball:

Yeah.

Bob Gentle:

Um, there was something else I was gonna say, which is a lot of people

Bob Gentle:

when they're new to podcasting, they think I'm not gonna go for a big name guest.

Bob Gentle:

I'm gonna get a few sort of, um, easy interviews in first, so to speak,

Bob Gentle:

and then I'll go for the make names.

Bob Gentle:

My advice would be not to do that because if you are if you haven't

Bob Gentle:

launched your podcast yet, then.

Bob Gentle:

The people have nothing to judge you on.

Bob Gentle:

And the assumption will be, Well, if you're inviting me, they're probably

Bob Gentle:

having this person, this person, this person, this person on as well.

Bob Gentle:

You might want to hint that that's the case and they're

Bob Gentle:

far more likely to say yes.

Bob Gentle:

Uh, but here's the real benefit.

Bob Gentle:

Those people know how to be a podcast guest.

Bob Gentle:

So you as an inexperienced, insecure podcast host, might have a far easier

Bob Gentle:

ride with an experienced guest.

Bob Gentle:

So what I would do is look at other podcasts in your niche.

Bob Gentle:

You'll, you'll notice they just have the same guests circling around all the time.

Bob Gentle:

Go and invite those people, get warmed up with them, get established with

Bob Gentle:

them, and then start getting creative because those people know how to behave.

Bob Gentle:

They'll run your show for you in the first five or six.

Bob Gentle:

I.

John Ball:

Yeah, that, that's a really good idea.

John Ball:

And I think there are, more and more people who are aware of just how

John Ball:

powerful podcasts can be for you now, not even just getting on the top

John Ball:

level podcasts, but just getting on particularly niche podcasts that are

John Ball:

focused to the kind of audience that are relevant to them and their business.

John Ball:

Is especially effective.

John Ball:

And I think we're gonna see probably a lot more of that as well.

John Ball:

And I know that it's gonna, it's already interesting how I think

John Ball:

it's easy now or easier now for somebody to come into podcasting.

John Ball:

I'm gonna make this my business.

John Ball:

Whereas I think perhaps around the time we would've started our shows, I don't

John Ball:

know that many people would've been coming into this thinking, I'm gonna

John Ball:

make podcasting my business but now that's very possible, is very doable.

John Ball:

And there are clear strategies and people around to help you do that.

John Ball:

And and I wonder for years, I if if you, have you ever thought about

John Ball:

maybe being a full-time podcaster and making this your main thing?

Bob Gentle:

I kind of think of myself as a full-time podcaster just

Bob Gentle:

now, but only in as much as it's something that I do all the time.

Bob Gentle:

Um, it, I would say it in its own right.

Bob Gentle:

It's not monetized at all.

Bob Gentle:

I don't have sponsors, anything like that.

Bob Gentle:

However, through the audience, I have a membership community that I support.

Bob Gentle:

It influences an awful lot of my prospects to become customers.

Bob Gentle:

It impacts my retention because if I can't get them what they

Bob Gentle:

need, where are they gonna go?

Bob Gentle:

What's the alternative?

Bob Gentle:

I do look ahead and think I would like content if possible, to become a bigger

Bob Gentle:

part of my revenue model, so to speak.

Bob Gentle:

So I would love to have, the YouTube channel monetized.

Bob Gentle:

I would love to have the podcast sponsored alongside that and looking at things like

Bob Gentle:

virtual summits, which are going to be part of the same ecosystem as if you like.

Bob Gentle:

What the podcast has allowed me to achieve is that I've moved away from

Bob Gentle:

what was an exclusively done for you service where I was on the tools,

Bob Gentle:

doing people's stuff all the time to now it's almost entirely consulting,

Bob Gentle:

advisory, coaching, that kind of stuff.

Bob Gentle:

So already that's the difference it's made just in a couple of years.

Bob Gentle:

So project that out.

Bob Gentle:

The podcast will still be central.

Bob Gentle:

To my business, but I, I don't, unless I were to start other podcasts, which

Bob Gentle:

is something I hadn't considered, but I, if I were to go out now and think,

Bob Gentle:

okay, maybe how could I design a podcast that was designed with monetization

Bob Gentle:

in mind, I'd approach it differently and I, yeah, I could probably do that.

Bob Gentle:

And I think I may be going to my whiteboard after this call.

John Ball:

You know, I have, I have at least three other podcast ideas

John Ball:

that I would love to do and just don't have the bandwidth for at the moment.

John Ball:

But some kids What would you do if you could do anything?

John Ball:

Would I do podcasting full time?

John Ball:

Yeah.

John Ball:

But I probably couldn't turn down this.

John Ball:

Speaking opportunities that have come up from it.

John Ball:

I probably couldn't turn down or the, or I probably couldn't

John Ball:

avoid the desire to, to write.

John Ball:

I love writing my blog now.

John Ball:

I love writing content, I love creating the YouTube stuff.

John Ball:

I wouldn't be able to stop doing that stuff as well.

John Ball:

But yeah I absolutely love podcasting and would love to have more shows

John Ball:

that right now I think one is enough.

John Ball:

One is about as much as I can handle right now.

John Ball:

And this the thing of people, I think a lot of people don't

John Ball:

recognize how much work goes into this and how important it is.

John Ball:

I think, I was talking with Chris Ducker last week and Chris was, I

John Ball:

sent to Chris like one of the reason.

John Ball:

That I look at his roadmap that he has for helping people rise up through on,

John Ball:

through the entrepreneurial levels, through the income levels, and podcasting

John Ball:

is not in the lower levels of that.

John Ball:

It's not one of the foundational parts of it.

John Ball:

It's quite high up as he's having a book and is that, those are all things that

John Ball:

I feel maybe I've done a bit asked about face and gone the wrong way, but I'm glad

John Ball:

I have, but I also understand I would've been far better off as an entrepreneur

John Ball:

with business thinking to have started off with those foundational things

John Ball:

first, rather than the high level stuff.

John Ball:

That really only need to develop into, and because if you've got the money and

John Ball:

the team to be able to delegate out a lot of the grunt work, the time consuming

John Ball:

stuff that goes into all of this, it's gonna be a much easier process for

John Ball:

you than trying to do it all yourself and do all those foundational elements

John Ball:

as well, which is what I found it.

John Ball:

It's it makes a lot of sense to me.

John Ball:

Like, no, I don't think podcasting is necessarily the place to start unless

John Ball:

you're making that your business.

Bob Gentle:

I, I think there's no right path.

Bob Gentle:

There's no true path.

Bob Gentle:

There's no sort of wondering to rule a mo.

John Ball:

Sure.

Bob Gentle:

Everybody's opportunities are different.

Bob Gentle:

Everybody's life situation is different, everybody's experience is different.

Bob Gentle:

So you leverage what you have.

Bob Gentle:

And I think for me, the podcast was exactly the Right.

Bob Gentle:

place to start because it was the catalyst that led to lots of other things.

Bob Gentle:

I think the mistake that I see a lot of people making, and I probably fall

Bob Gentle:

into this track myself sometimes, and I think it's what you're alluding

Bob Gentle:

to, is you can achieve a certain level of success, but leave out some

Bob Gentle:

potentially important foundational steps that later on lead to your

Bob Gentle:

inability to move forward significantly.

Bob Gentle:

Um, so you might have a great podcast, for example,

John Ball:

Yeah.

Bob Gentle:

but.

Bob Gentle:

You have no product ecosystem whatsoever, so it's impossible for

Bob Gentle:

you to now make any money out of being very successful as a podcaster.

Bob Gentle:

Or you might have built the most amazing products in the world, but if you

Bob Gentle:

have no audience, what was the point?

Bob Gentle:

So understanding that you need to have the foundational elements in

Bob Gentle:

place, then you need to have the authority in in place before you start

Bob Gentle:

necessarily worrying too much about your visibility and that kind of thing.

Bob Gentle:

And then you can worry about monetization.

Bob Gentle:

There is an order to these things.

Bob Gentle:

Um, it is something that you will see all the time that incredibly successful

Bob Gentle:

businesses struggle to move forwards because they didn't have fundamental

Bob Gentle:

foundational pieces in place.

Bob Gentle:

They go back and fix those and suddenly everything's released.

John Ball:

Yeah.

John Ball:

I think that's been a lot of my experience even over the last six months of

John Ball:

realizing that I had a lot of foundational elements missing, and I'm still working

John Ball:

to sort of fill, fill those gaps.

John Ball:

But one of the challenges that I found in doing that is there's already

John Ball:

time commitments with the podcast.

John Ball:

So what do I do?

John Ball:

Do I put the podcast on hold?

John Ball:

Do I stop doing?

John Ball:

It's like, I'm not prepared to do that.

John Ball:

I love doing this.

John Ball:

I, the podcast isn't going anywhere.

John Ball:

So I definitely want to keep that going.

John Ball:

So I just have to live with that and, At least for now.

John Ball:

At least

Bob Gentle:

uh, where, where I make my money is actually helping

Bob Gentle:

people identify those gaps because the mistake a lot of people make

Bob Gentle:

in that situation is I have gaps.

Bob Gentle:

So I try and plug them all, every possible gap, I will try and plug it and.

Bob Gentle:

You don't have the time and people end up getting paralyzed and doing

Bob Gentle:

nothing, just carry on doing what they were doing before, when actually in

Bob Gentle:

most people's situations, there's just one or two places they need to focus

Bob Gentle:

and everything will fall into place.

Bob Gentle:

And it's actually a lot less time consuming than you would think.

Bob Gentle:

Um, so Yeah.

Bob Gentle:

if anybody wants a good steer on that, they can visit my website and get my

Bob Gentle:

personal brand business roadmap, which is what I put together to help primarily

Bob Gentle:

myself and subsequently clients.

Bob Gentle:

But, uh, a lot of people seem to get a lot from it, and it does

Bob Gentle:

help put some orientation in there.

John Ball:

And they definitely should.

John Ball:

I would encourage them to also come and check out your podcast because

John Ball:

I get a lot of value personally from listening to the show.

John Ball:

Is the name of the podcast going to change along with your rebranding, or is

John Ball:

it gonna stay the personal brand entre.

Bob Gentle:

don't know because there are competing priorities here.

Bob Gentle:

I think the.

Bob Gentle:

The artwork will change a little bit in order that the Leader brand

Bob Gentle:

logo essentially becomes visible.

Bob Gentle:

The nobody searches for leader brand.

Bob Gentle:

So to change the title of the podcast to Leader Brand might be shooting

Bob Gentle:

myself in the foot because it's ranking very well as it stands just in

Bob Gentle:

the personal branding niche of which a subset of that is leader brand.

Bob Gentle:

So I, I haven't fully decided on that, but I'll probably change the artwork shortly.

Bob Gentle:

But you will see my face all over it.

Bob Gentle:

And you just search Bob Gentle in any podcast player.

Bob Gentle:

I'm easy to find.

John Ball:

Yeah, and also you have a great Facebook group too,

John Ball:

which I love being a part of.

Bob Gentle:

Yeah, again, the personal brand Business

Bob Gentle:

Dojo, I think that's called.

Bob Gentle:

It's good fun.

Bob Gentle:

I don't quite give it the love and attention that I wish I did,

Bob Gentle:

but I'm every day trying to do a little bit better in that.

Bob Gentle:

Um,

John Ball:

You, you do post some great content in there and I've certainly

John Ball:

been enjoying that and enjoying those aspects of the stuff that you share.

John Ball:

I enjoy watching YouTube videos as well.

John Ball:

I shall continue to follow you, Bob, because I think you're

John Ball:

great at what you're doing.

John Ball:

I love talking to you as well.

John Ball:

And and it isn't just because we are connected that, and like you're

John Ball:

talking, I'm very selective about what I would give my time to, to

John Ball:

listen to and pay attention to it.

John Ball:

And to me, you are someone who is definitely someone to keep an

John Ball:

eye on as a thought leader who is really starting to be more seen

John Ball:

in terms of what you're doing.

John Ball:

And I hope that continues to rise and rise for you.

John Ball:

And one thing that I do want to ask you what would you see your super powers being

John Ball:

when it comes to influence and persua?

Bob Gentle:

in terms of influence and.

Bob Gentle:

persuasion, it's a tricky one.

Bob Gentle:

I would say listening is something that I know I'm good at.

Bob Gentle:

And I think my superpower, and this is something that has caused me some

Bob Gentle:

embarrassment on many occasions, is actually helping other people

Bob Gentle:

recognize where their own is.

Bob Gentle:

Because a lot of people don't understand where their own superpower is.

Bob Gentle:

And something that has happened to me on multiple occasions is I'll be at a table

Bob Gentle:

of people and they'll be telling me how confused and distressed they are by their

Bob Gentle:

inability to move their business forward.

Bob Gentle:

And I'll make a suggestion and they'll start bursting into tears

Bob Gentle:

and, and the relief that suddenly they can see a way forward.

Bob Gentle:

My influence is on a micro level.

Bob Gentle:

It's not typically on a macro level.

Bob Gentle:

I'm, I'm looking for having an impact.

Bob Gentle:

in, in as intimate a way as I possibly can, and generally that's helping

Bob Gentle:

one person have, a breakthrough.

Bob Gentle:

That for me is, it's like playing with fireworks.

Bob Gentle:

I just love it.

Bob Gentle:

Really helping other people unlock their own potential.

Bob Gentle:

That's what I live for.

John Ball:

That's great.

John Ball:

That's a wonderful superpower to have, Bob, as I really like that when it for

John Ball:

people who are wanting to connect with you, they'll be able to find the links

John Ball:

to your to your website, to your Facebook group, to your podcast in the show notes.

John Ball:

So please do go and take a look there whilst you're having a look around.

John Ball:

Make sure you're following the show and that you're subscribed as well.

John Ball:

Well, I do like to get book recommendations from my guests and

John Ball:

I wonder if I come to you and say, Hey, Bob, what's a book that I should

John Ball:

read or that you think everybody should be reading at the moment?

John Ball:

What would.

Bob Gentle:

I would.

Bob Gentle:

say there's a.

Bob Gentle:

Richie Norton's, The power of Starting Something Stupid is a, a brilliant

Bob Gentle:

book about why you should just stop worrying about, Do I have enough money?

Bob Gentle:

Do I have enough time?

Bob Gentle:

Do I have information?

Bob Gentle:

Do I know enough people?

Bob Gentle:

All the answers to those things are no, but you need to do it anyway.

Bob Gentle:

Um, then there's a book called The Alchemist by Pablo Coello, which is really

Bob Gentle:

a narrative illustrated hero's journey.

Bob Gentle:

This is what life looks like and what it's for.

Bob Gentle:

Um, for me, that book was really, really profound.

Bob Gentle:

And another One I think that's helped me tremendously is Todd

Bob Gentle:

Harmon's Alter Ego Effect.

Bob Gentle:

I am a terrible introvert.

Bob Gentle:

I've always been very, very shy and before the alter ego.

Bob Gentle:

I couldn't do any of this.

Bob Gentle:

None of it.

Bob Gentle:

I had to read that book to discover the tools that would allow me to break

Bob Gentle:

through that and show up when it mattered.

Bob Gentle:

So three books

John Ball:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

John Ball:

One of them I know pretty well, the Ments, but the other two definitely will be

John Ball:

wanting to go and check out for myself.

John Ball:

And certainly as an introvert, as a fellow introvert, I am very

John Ball:

interested in the alter ego effect.

John Ball:

If there was one thing above everything else you most hope people

John Ball:

will take away from the conversation we've had today, what would that.

Bob Gentle:

make it about the other person.

Bob Gentle:

That for me, is the most important thing that this whole thing, if people won't

Bob Gentle:

remember what you said to them, but they will remember how you made them feel.

Bob Gentle:

So, like I said, make your content almost.

Bob Gentle:

A sacrificial gesture.

Bob Gentle:

It's not about what you can get.

Bob Gentle:

It's entirely about what you can give both to your guests, to your

Bob Gentle:

listeners, and to everyone, everyone else that could encounter it.

Bob Gentle:

If you do that, the universal law of balance will keep things

Bob Gentle:

in check and you will win.

Bob Gentle:

Um, that for me is probably the most important.

John Ball:

they say still, waters run deep, Bob.

John Ball:

And certainly they do seem to, Huh.

John Ball:

, we're talking influence supervisor, I'm thinking, one of yours, and maybe you

John Ball:

don't see it as your own, is that You, the gentle nature that you bring to things

John Ball:

like gentle by name, gentle by nature.

John Ball:

But it is, I think it makes people need to lean in and pay attention.

John Ball:

And it's that, that soft voice that you just have to listen to

John Ball:

because it's saying radical stop, I think that's a real strength.

John Ball:

That and a great power, and I'm very glad that you do lean into it.

John Ball:

It's been an absolute delight chatting with you today.

John Ball:

I knew it would be, and I'm sure we'll get you back on the show again in the future.

John Ball:

And and we'll definitely be connecting more over time.

John Ball:

But I hope that everyone at home listening as well has also enjoyed this as much.

John Ball:

And I look forward to hearing people's feedback about our conversation.

John Ball:

But Bob, thank you for coming and being my first guest on the new Pod fluence brand.

John Ball:

I

Bob Gentle:

Well, it's my absolute honor and I'm sure it will be a stellar success.

Bob Gentle:

Thank you so much.

John Ball:

Oh, it's good to be back.

John Ball:

I hope you've enjoyed the show.

John Ball:

And if you aren't already subscribed, please make sure that

John Ball:

you ask describing and following us for future episodes next week.

John Ball:

I'll be back with a solo show and then very soon I'll be bringing you a show

John Ball:

with the amazing Lee Carter and she has an incredible book about influence and

John Ball:

how to influence in a world where facts don't matter, fascinating conversation

John Ball:

and I really incredible person as well.

John Ball:

And I know that you're going to love that conversation as much as I did.

John Ball:

If you're not already following the Podfluencer weekly newsletter, you

John Ball:

can subscribe either in LinkedIn or a medium, the links are in the show notes.

John Ball:

Please do go and check them out as well as links to everything

John Ball:

mentioned with Bob in the show.

John Ball:

Do you come and join us in the Podfluence Facebook group?

John Ball:

You'll find the link for that in the show notes.

John Ball:

And if you are a podcast that looking to grow and monetize your show, well,

John Ball:

go and check out Kevin Chemidlin's podcasts, grow the show again, link

John Ball:

in the show notes and join us in the Grow the show Facebook group.

John Ball:

We'd love to see you there too.

John Ball:

That's it for this week.

John Ball:

I am super excited to be publishing episodes of the show again.

John Ball:

Um, I do promise I will do my very best to be as consistent as I possibly can

John Ball:

with getting these episodes out to you.

John Ball:

Do you think you'd be a great guest on pod fluence or, you

John Ball:

know, who would make a great guest?

John Ball:

Well, do reach out to me on Facebook or LinkedIn.

John Ball:

And send me a message and let me know who you think would be a great guest and why.

John Ball:

I should have them if you really want to go the extra mile, you can

John Ball:

find the application form to be on the show at present influence.com.

John Ball:

I look forward to seeing you next time, wherever you're going, wherever you're

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About the Podcast

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Present Influence
The podcast that helps professional communicators learn the skills that increase influence, impact and authority.

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About your host

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John Ball

John Ball is a keynote coach and professional speaker on a mission to help upcoming leaders master their communication, create impact and stand out as experts in their field.
John left the high life of his flying career to do something more meaningful to him and has since worked with several leading personal and professional development organisations as a lead coach and trainer.
The heart of everything John does involves helping people shift to personal responsibility and conscious awareness of how they show up and perform in every situation, whilst equipping them with the tools to be exceptional.
John also co-hosts The Coaching Clinic Podcast with his great friend and colleague Angie Besignano.
He lives in the beautiful city of Valencia, Spain with his husband and often visits the UK and US for speaking and training engagements. When he's not speaking or podcasting, he's likely to be out swimming, kayaking or enjoying time with friends.

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