Make Your Expertise Memorable With Visual Frameworks | Susanna Reay

John: 00:00:00

You're about to hear why most frameworks fail long before anyone

2

: 00:00:03

gets to hear them, and it's got nothing

to do with the ideas inside them.

3

: 00:00:09

Suzannah Ray puts it bluntly: "Build

a personal brand without something

4

: 00:00:14

underneath it, and most experts end

up in a little puddle on the floor."

5

: 00:00:19

She spent over two decades working with

speakers and experts on exactly this

6

: 00:00:24

problem, and even she didn't get her own

framework right on the first attempt.

7

: 00:00:30

When she first sketched it out,

it was a square with four boxes.

8

: 00:00:34

She scrapped it.

9

: 00:00:35

What she rebuilt it into and why is

one of those small decisions that

10

: 00:00:40

changes how people remember you

long after you've left the room.

11

: 00:00:45

Welcome to Professional Speaking, the show

for people who are serious about speaking

12

: 00:00:49

and becoming known, booked, and paid.

13

: 00:00:51

My name's John Ball, professional

speaking coach, keynote speaker,

14

: 00:00:55

stand-up comedian, and sci-fi nerd.

15

: 00:00:57

I'm here as your guide on the journey

to a successful speaking career

16

: 00:01:02

Well, listener, it is a great pleasure

for me to welcome one of my friends

17

: 00:01:06

to the show today, and, we're gonna

be talking about a very important

18

: 00:01:09

element which we just haven't discussed

much on the show before, frameworks.

19

: 00:01:13

So let me welcome the framework

thinking expert, Susanna Reay

20

: 00:01:18

Susanna Reay: Hello, and it

is such a pleasure to join

21

: 00:01:21

you, John, on this lovely day

22

: 00:01:24

John: Susannah, I've been looking forward

to having you on the show 'cause I

23

: 00:01:27

think this is a really important element

that we just haven't got to on the show

24

: 00:01:30

before, and I can't believe that in all

the years I've been making the show that

25

: 00:01:34

we haven't really covered this topic.

26

: 00:01:36

But you do cover it really well, and

I'd just like to get a sense from you,

27

: 00:01:39

like, one of the things I often like

to ask my guests is whether you have

28

: 00:01:43

a particular viewpoint or stance that

relates to what you do that might be a

29

: 00:01:48

bit contrarian to or probably different

30

: 00:01:53

to what other people are teaching

out there and have heard before

31

: 00:01:56

Susanna Reay: Oh, I do.

32

: 00:01:57

And I call this, like, the hill

I'm likely to die on, and it's

33

: 00:02:01

my framework first principle.

34

: 00:02:04

And this is from seeing the last

10 years that there's been a

35

: 00:02:08

massive push in personal branding,

like visibility, content.

36

: 00:02:14

You've gotta be out there, and

most experts end up in a little

37

: 00:02:17

puddle on the floor as a result.

38

: 00:02:20

Because what I see, and for me, this

is the difference between a personal

39

: 00:02:24

brand and authority brand, is a personal

brand, yes, it's about you, your

40

: 00:02:29

personality, how you present, how you are.

41

: 00:02:33

But the reality of it is, is if people

don't understand what your framework, your

42

: 00:02:38

intellectual property, your unique ideas

are, and those stay with them after you've

43

: 00:02:44

been in the room, then it just diminishes.

44

: 00:02:48

And the difference with an authority

brand is they have that framework.

45

: 00:02:52

They've worked on the framework

first, their IP, because then when

46

: 00:02:56

the person leaves the room, and

particularly if they've presented this

47

: 00:02:59

visually, they're far more remembered.

48

: 00:03:02

The ideas percolate through their heads,

and they really build their authority,

49

: 00:03:07

and recognition comes from their ideas

just as much as their personality.

50

: 00:03:12

I'm not saying no

personality here, by the way.

51

: 00:03:15

I am saying that you want to build beyond

having a just a pure personal brand.

52

: 00:03:20

You- it needs substance behind it,

and that's why I'm always about

53

: 00:03:25

framework first, visibility second

54

: 00:03:28

John: Yeah.

55

: 00:03:29

It's, idea that I have perhaps not

pushed as strongly as, as you do, but

56

: 00:03:32

I've always talked about with my speaker

clients, about the importance of having

57

: 00:03:37

those frameworks and what they do,

especially if they're looking to do

58

: 00:03:40

coaching and workshops alongside what

they're doing on the stage, from speaking.

59

: 00:03:45

But having those elements

be that bit more memorable.

60

: 00:03:49

I think it's … Actually, when I

started reading your book, one of

61

: 00:03:52

the things that became very clear to

me was, was about how you really are

62

: 00:03:57

developing that sense of clarity that a

lot of people end up finding themselves

63

: 00:04:00

feeling like they're starting over

and over again, every single time.

64

: 00:04:04

Whereas when you actually have these

frameworks, you don't have to do that.

65

: 00:04:08

That's really important, really

important for people to get

66

: 00:04:12

Susanna Reay: Oh, God, you get stuck in

this eternal content trap and visibility

67

: 00:04:18

if you don't have that framework.

68

: 00:04:20

Because what a framework does is

it doesn't, like, lock you in.

69

: 00:04:25

One of the biggest objections

that people come to me, they

70

: 00:04:27

go, "Oh, Susanna, a framework.

71

: 00:04:29

Does that mean it's like a

box I've got to stay within?"

72

: 00:04:31

Because many expert speakers, you

know, they're polymaths, they've

73

: 00:04:36

got many ideas, and it's…

74

: 00:04:38

I'm like, "No, not at all."

75

: 00:04:41

What it is, is the framework

stabilizes what you're doing and

76

: 00:04:46

what you're putting out there.

77

: 00:04:48

And one of my favorite analogies

that always lands really well

78

: 00:04:52

with listeners is when

you think of an umbrella.

79

: 00:04:57

So an umbrella, in its essence, is

a spoke, a central handle, and the

80

: 00:05:03

multiple spokes, depending how many

are on there, and some loose fabric.

81

: 00:05:08

Separately, they don't really do much.

82

: 00:05:10

They don't mean anything.

83

: 00:05:12

When it's brought together into an

umbrella, it now has a structure.

84

: 00:05:16

It's also got a use and a form.

85

: 00:05:18

And the thing is, an umbrella

can be used in multiple ways.

86

: 00:05:21

We'll not say it has

to be used in one way.

87

: 00:05:24

It might depend on the

conditions, the weather.

88

: 00:05:26

So you might use it as an rain umbrella.

89

: 00:05:28

You might use it as a sun umbrella.

90

: 00:05:30

You'll hold it at different angles.

91

: 00:05:32

And also, if you think about the areas,

the sections of the fabric that you

92

: 00:05:37

would see on the top of an umbrella,

and I've got a lovely rainbow umbrella,

93

: 00:05:41

so I'm always like, if I use this,

I'll be pointing at the different

94

: 00:05:44

colors as a prop, because I love

props when you're speaking as well,

95

: 00:05:48

I think it brings the stage more to life.

96

: 00:05:51

But each of those areas are different

areas that you might do or speak

97

: 00:05:56

about, but you don't always have

to angle it over everything,

98

: 00:06:00

because that could be overwhelming.

99

: 00:06:02

You might bring it to one angle, and

you might focus on the blues or greens.

100

: 00:06:06

On another day, maybe the

reds and oranges and yellows,

101

: 00:06:09

dependent who you're speaking to.

102

: 00:06:12

And that is the beauty when

you've got the right framework.

103

: 00:06:15

It's got this real structure to

it that you can, as you say, you

104

: 00:06:19

can bounce back to all the time.

105

: 00:06:20

So if you wake up on one of those days,

and we all have them, when we go, "Uh,

106

: 00:06:26

what, what am I going to do today?"

107

: 00:06:27

You can look to your framework

and you go, "Ah, I haven't spoken

108

: 00:06:30

about this element for a while.

109

: 00:06:32

Let me shine a light on that piece."

110

: 00:06:34

That is important.

111

: 00:06:36

So the umbrella ana- analogy, I

think, really helps people understand

112

: 00:06:41

how a framework should work

113

: 00:06:42

John: I think that is a great metaphor

and I think it was, in a way, and I think

114

: 00:06:44

I am myself am picturing that umbrella.

115

: 00:06:46

You know, it's like you're

creating that visual framework

116

: 00:06:50

thinking for, for us there.

117

: 00:06:51

but I but I really get that.

118

: 00:06:53

I get the connection to it, and I

think you explained that really well.

119

: 00:06:56

It's like it doesn't lock you in.

120

: 00:06:57

You can move it around, you can play

with it, you can angle it to, as,

121

: 00:07:02

as best suits you, which is very

important espec- especially for

122

: 00:07:05

speakers who, who are using this.

123

: 00:07:07

I know you work with a lot of speakers

and coaches, so you're a perfect

124

: 00:07:11

guest for this kind of show really.

125

: 00:07:13

one of the things I think that it

also perhaps does, which I think a lot

126

: 00:07:17

of people struggle with, as you say,

we, we create a lot of content these

127

: 00:07:20

days, and often we are doing coaching,

we're doing speaking, we're doing

128

: 00:07:25

other aspects of business as well.

129

: 00:07:27

Keeping all these elements in

your head is very, very difficult.

130

: 00:07:31

And so having things that are

clarified for your audience

131

: 00:07:35

also clarifies it for us, right?

132

: 00:07:38

Susanna Reay: Oh, totally.

133

: 00:07:39

It's a win-win on both sides.

134

: 00:07:41

And for me, a great framework, what I

call an authority framework, is one that

135

: 00:07:49

serves every piece of your business from

that first opening all the way through

136

: 00:07:55

to your high-end bespoke work, because

every element is really important.

137

: 00:08:01

And what I feel is many people get

lost because they don't center on

138

: 00:08:10

what they're really good at as well.

139

: 00:08:13

They might lean more into the

market of like, "Oh, but I've

140

: 00:08:16

seen someone else sell this.

141

: 00:08:17

I could do that."

142

: 00:08:18

And then they go off on this side

quest that doesn't benefit them.

143

: 00:08:23

So instead, by going, actually,

no, this is my central work.

144

: 00:08:28

This is where I really hold my power

and my energy and that support to

145

: 00:08:34

help others with the transformation,

then that helps bring the clarity

146

: 00:08:38

to the audience as much as yourself.

147

: 00:08:41

Because yes, many of us can do…

148

: 00:08:43

like, I can do many, many things,

but where do I really gain my energy?

149

: 00:08:48

Where do I really want to focus?

150

: 00:08:51

And this is a core piece of the

work I do with clients, because I

151

: 00:08:55

have my trademark SPARK Process,

and the S in that starts with self.

152

: 00:09:01

Because if we don't connect with our

personality, our passion, and our prowess,

153

: 00:09:07

which are the three Ps that I put into

the authority DNA, I find that that

154

: 00:09:12

motivation disappears and overwhelm starts

stepping in, because the personality

155

: 00:09:18

piece is the piece many people forget.

156

: 00:09:20

They think they should be like

other people, but I'm introverted

157

: 00:09:25

in nature, so I can't be on, on, on.

158

: 00:09:28

I- I'm, in fact, um, inside my book

I share this, this example of this

159

: 00:09:32

diagram, and who, how I filled it in.

160

: 00:09:36

I'm completely transparent.

161

: 00:09:38

And at the intersection there of passion

and personality, I've got the words fizzy

162

: 00:09:43

energy, because that's how I show up.

163

: 00:09:47

I can be on the…

164

: 00:09:48

I can be full energy, but

after you've got me lying down

165

: 00:09:52

and saying nothing to anyone.

166

: 00:09:54

Whereas people, some other people,

they'll be go, go, go all day.

167

: 00:09:58

That's not me.

168

: 00:09:59

I'm a fizzy energy bomb, basically

169

: 00:10:03

John: I, I probably fall

more to, to your side.

170

: 00:10:05

I, I'm more naturally introverted

myself, and so the- I just get

171

: 00:10:09

to a point where it's like, "All

right, I'm done with people now,

172

: 00:10:11

and I need to go and be by myself."

173

: 00:10:14

And, and that's cool.

174

: 00:10:15

You know, I know, I know when those

points are for me, and, and I know

175

: 00:10:18

that I am one of those people that

energizes, re-energizes better

176

: 00:10:23

with quiet time by myself, walks in

nature, all those kinds of things.

177

: 00:10:27

It's good to know.

178

: 00:10:28

For, for our listener or even our viewer

who's maybe thinking, "Ah, this is good.

179

: 00:10:33

Sounds-- framework sounds good," but

what exactly are we talking about?

180

: 00:10:36

Like, what really, what is a framework

in its most basic level and, and

181

: 00:10:40

how do I start to create my own?

182

: 00:10:45

Susanna Reay: Ooh, there's a big question.

183

: 00:10:46

There's like a whole book in that, John.

184

: 00:10:48

No, but simply, simply a framework

is a structure that brings ideas

185

: 00:10:55

together in a way that it's

simple for others to understand.

186

: 00:11:00

And a good framework…

187

: 00:11:02

There's good and bad frameworks, or

the good, the bad, the ugly, in the

188

: 00:11:06

sense that a good framework is simple,

it's clear, it's unique, and it's very

189

: 00:11:12

specific in helping in a set space.

190

: 00:11:17

Unfortunately, there's, there's

mid-range frameworks that

191

: 00:11:21

people might go, "Oh, is that…

192

: 00:11:23

You know, I've seen someone pick a

word," and then they basically, it's

193

: 00:11:27

like alphabet soup, in the sense

they might go, "Let's use the word

194

: 00:11:30

visibility," that we've already spoken

about, and you might have a visibility,

195

: 00:11:35

like a personal brand expert and

say, "My framework is visibility."

196

: 00:11:39

And then they sit down and

go, "What can V stand for?

197

: 00:11:41

What can I stand for?

198

: 00:11:42

What can S…

199

: 00:11:43

Oh my, there's another I in there.

200

: 00:11:45

What can the next I stand for?

201

: 00:11:47

Oh, and there's another I.

202

: 00:11:48

Oh, I've got to have three Is."

203

: 00:11:49

And they're getting lost in that already.

204

: 00:11:52

And the thing is, is with AI

today, that's the first step.

205

: 00:11:56

A lot of people go, "Oh, I'm gonna

use AI to create my framework."

206

: 00:12:00

And I'd say, "Ooh, hold back, hold back."

207

: 00:12:02

Instantly we can go into that.

208

: 00:12:05

But I…

209

: 00:12:05

The ugly frameworks are

the ones like 12, 20 steps.

210

: 00:12:10

They

211

: 00:12:10

m- look more like a process diagram

because they're more about the method.

212

: 00:12:15

Whereas when I mention frameworks, I'm

talking about, it's like that 20,000-foot

213

: 00:12:21

view of what is going to happen.

214

: 00:12:23

It's a simple map for your clients

to understand where you focus,

215

: 00:12:28

what you specialize in, and what

is the journey that we go along.

216

: 00:12:32

But most importantly, it needs to be

based on the impacts that you're actually

217

: 00:12:38

doing with your clients, not made up.

218

: 00:12:41

We're uncovering what

you are naturally doing.

219

: 00:12:45

We are not inventing something.

220

: 00:12:46

So if you want to get started with

creating a framework for your business,

221

: 00:12:52

it's really important to start looking

at the patterns that you are already

222

: 00:12:57

doing and serving in your work.

223

: 00:13:00

That is the starting point

224

: 00:13:03

John: Yeah.

225

: 00:13:04

I think that's particularly helpful

because what you're talking about, to

226

: 00:13:08

a great degree, is simplifying things

for your, for your audience, your

227

: 00:13:12

end user, for, for yourself as well.

228

: 00:13:15

Most people tend to want to, want

to overcomplicate things or make

229

: 00:13:20

things seem more complicated for,

I think for a number of reasons.

230

: 00:13:23

a lot of speakers and coaches, they want

to share as much value and knowledge

231

: 00:13:27

as they can, so you end up with

20-point frameworks and whatever else.

232

: 00:13:32

Or some people just want

to seem really clever.

233

: 00:13:34

Maybe that's a sort of pushback against

their own i- own imposter syndrome.

234

: 00:13:38

I don't know.

235

: 00:13:39

But there are a number of reasons

why sometimes people end up

236

: 00:13:42

overcomplicating things for people

and don't really get the power of

237

: 00:13:47

simplicity, which we know is important

in all levels of communication, right?

238

: 00:13:54

Susanna Reay: Oh.

239

: 00:13:57

It's not to be underestimated, but

equally simplifying is the hardest

240

: 00:14:04

thing to do for most experts, because

we've normally got 10, 20, 30 years

241

: 00:14:11

of life experience behind us, and the

biggest issue I see with anyone who's

242

: 00:14:17

an expert in their space is they've kind

of forgotten what it was like to be a

243

: 00:14:22

beginner, and they start at this really

high level, and you're just like, "No."

244

: 00:14:28

Like, it's really, really hard.

245

: 00:14:30

And my first training was in design,

and so I've got a strong design thinking

246

: 00:14:37

background, and one of the powers of great

design is how you simplify something.

247

: 00:14:44

So, the everyday objects, like one of

the reasons why when Steve Jobs took over

248

: 00:14:50

Apple and he had the iPod that came out,

he was like, "What is the minimum…"

249

: 00:14:56

If you remember, I'm taking listeners

back quite a few years here.

250

: 00:14:59

The very first one, which was just

a small box and it had a circular

251

: 00:15:03

dial on it, and that was all.

252

: 00:15:05

That was the only way you can navigate,

because Steve Jobs', challenge to his

253

: 00:15:10

designers is, what is the simplest

way we can help people listen to

254

: 00:15:17

music, have those 20,000 songs in

their pocket, and I don't want this

255

: 00:15:22

thing to be covered in buttons.

256

: 00:15:24

Creating frameworks for your

business is again like that.

257

: 00:15:27

Like, how can we bring it down so

it's the essence of what you do?

258

: 00:15:32

That is what we want to bring forward.

259

: 00:15:33

And I say the designer in me is

always wanting to make things look

260

: 00:15:39

right, and there's a lot of brand

recognition and simple structures.

261

: 00:15:44

We don't need to overcomplicate.

262

: 00:15:46

Quite often, the simpler the better,

and it's more powerful in the brain

263

: 00:15:50

John: Yeah.

264

: 00:15:51

I do think…

265

: 00:15:52

I do sometimes come across people who are

resistant to using frameworks, and they

266

: 00:15:56

just kind of just wanna get up and speak,

and they just wanna go with their flow.

267

: 00:16:00

Y- you would think that that

would be a mistake, right?

268

: 00:16:05

Susanna Reay: Well, the, the joy of

a good framework is it'll give them

269

: 00:16:10

those beats on stage because they'll

know this is what I need to talk

270

: 00:16:14

about, because they'll go, "Actually,

the essence of my work, there's…

271

: 00:16:19

or there's a framework for my talk,

and I know these are the beats."

272

: 00:16:23

Because I'm sure you agree with

this, that the best talks don't

273

: 00:16:28

feel rehearsed and scripted.

274

: 00:16:31

They're more someone naturally

talking around specific elements,

275

: 00:16:35

and that is what the framework

does for the person on stage.

276

: 00:16:39

And actually, I know I'm not the only

one who's noticed this at conferences,

277

: 00:16:44

when you're watching great speakers,

even if there's been lots of wonderful

278

: 00:16:48

storytelling and they've got lots of

brilliant examples, the moment they

279

: 00:16:54

bring up their visual framework,

because the best speakers all have

280

: 00:16:57

them, that one slide is the moment you

see all the iPhones, all the Android

281

: 00:17:03

phones, absolutely everything comes

out, and it's click, click, click.

282

: 00:17:06

You see, like, pretty much the whole

audience these days, they know the moment

283

: 00:17:12

that visual goes on screen, these are

the important moments that we need to

284

: 00:17:17

remember to take away from this talk.

285

: 00:17:20

So a speaker who doesn't have a framework

is missing that opportunity, because

286

: 00:17:26

what happens when the audience takes that

287

: 00:17:30

photo?

288

: 00:17:30

Goes in their pocket, and it's a lifelong

business card that that speaker has just

289

: 00:17:35

dropped into every member of the audience.

290

: 00:17:39

So you don't necessarily need big

call to actions and various things

291

: 00:17:43

because you've landed in their heads,

and that's where you want to be

292

: 00:17:46

John: Something that, something

that will stay with them.

293

: 00:17:48

You know what, I was just thinking

last night I was doing a, a, a

294

: 00:17:51

comedy performance, and whilst

there was no frameworks involved,

295

: 00:17:54

Susanna, there, there was, there was

structure in some and not in others.

296

: 00:17:59

So for, for myself who was opening

and for, for the comedian who was

297

: 00:18:02

closing, I noticed that we both had

structure to, to what we talked about.

298

: 00:18:07

We both had practiced,

we had rehearsed it.

299

: 00:18:09

It was a very clear start, middle,

and ending to, to our sets.

300

: 00:18:14

The sets in between were

generally a bit less structured.

301

: 00:18:19

Uh, one particular was especially

rambly, and people were tuning out.

302

: 00:18:24

And I think this is the thing of like even

just having some structure gives you that.

303

: 00:18:29

Like, people know where you're going.

304

: 00:18:30

They can see they're on

the journey with you.

305

: 00:18:32

They have that sense of it.

306

: 00:18:34

In a more, uh, educational or maybe

even informative setting that a talk

307

: 00:18:40

would tend to be, having those sorts of

frameworks is a huge advantage for pe-

308

: 00:18:45

people being able to follow along with the

journey or even see where they're headed.

309

: 00:18:49

You can kind of get a sense of where

you're going to with them as well, right?

310

: 00:18:54

Susanna Reay: Yeah, it's a real speaker's

trick to help drop what I would call

311

: 00:19:00

those curiosity eggs along the way.

312

: 00:19:03

And as you say, if you know where

you're going, you might be dropping

313

: 00:19:08

the, "I'll come back to that later,"

because then they know you're

314

: 00:19:11

not going off on a side quest.

315

: 00:19:14

And one of the experts in the field I

see with this is Rory Sutherland, who

316

: 00:19:20

to me, he comes across like a bumbling

uncle in the corner with endless stories.

317

: 00:19:28

But he is a master speaker

in the sense he always…

318

: 00:19:33

He would go off down a route and you're

thinking, "Where on earth is this coming?"

319

: 00:19:37

But he's always got a beautiful tie

back and brings it together in a way.

320

: 00:19:42

And so you sort of go on that journey

of the storytelling, and you're

321

: 00:19:46

just like, "Where is this going?"

322

: 00:19:48

But then he will drop those little

Easter eggs along the way of like,

323

: 00:19:52

"This will link in with that.

324

: 00:19:54

Like, just bear with me."

325

: 00:19:56

And those little phrases, I notice

they really engage the brain to go,

326

: 00:20:00

"Okay, I'm, I'm gonna keep listening.

327

: 00:20:02

There's something coming here that

I need to keep holding onto that."

328

: 00:20:06

John: Yeah.

329

: 00:20:06

And, and that's also deep- more deeply

developing a level of trust in that

330

: 00:20:12

person for being able to do that.

331

: 00:20:14

That you, you know they're g-

they're gonna take you somewhere

332

: 00:20:16

that's worth going to and worth

sticking with them for as well.

333

: 00:20:20

I personally love this, but do, do

all these frameworks need to have

334

: 00:20:26

a visual element to them as well?

335

: 00:20:30

Susanna Reay: My answer is absolutely yes,

wherever possible, because neuroscience

336

: 00:20:36

and research behind visuals really backs

up that they're far more memorable.

337

: 00:20:42

There's been research studies showing

that your talk, any presentation you

338

: 00:20:47

make, will be 65% more memorable three

days after the event than speaking alone.

339

: 00:20:55

We equally, we process visuals

65,000 times faster than

340

: 00:21:02

text.

341

: 00:21:03

So if we don't have the visual element,

you again- you're just missing a huge

342

: 00:21:08

piece of expertise that could land, and

that is also where you bring in your

343

: 00:21:14

brand, your ethos, and how things look.

344

: 00:21:17

But the visual just

makes things memorable.

345

: 00:21:20

And one of the aspects as well, when it

comes to a visual, as I've mentioned,

346

: 00:21:25

that people can take a photo on the

stage if you're speaking on stage or

347

: 00:21:29

doing a presentation or even online.

348

: 00:21:31

That's a piece people

are going to screenshot.

349

: 00:21:33

You might not know it if you're presenting

online, but they will be doing that.

350

: 00:21:38

And then with that, what they

have is that element, and you just

351

: 00:21:45

like go, "Yeah, that's the visual

piece that I'm gonna remember."

352

: 00:21:48

But also, more importantly is do

you remember the, childhood game of,

353

: 00:21:53

like, telephone when you'd whisper

something to someone and the person

354

: 00:21:57

would whisper it to the next person,

and then you'd like whisper on, and by

355

: 00:22:01

the end, that message and phrase has

changed completely in shape and form?

356

: 00:22:08

When you have a visual, it's like

passing someone a business card

357

: 00:22:11

that then passes to the next person,

to the next person, and it hasn't

358

: 00:22:15

diminished at all along that line.

359

: 00:22:18

So the visual backs up your message

and your strategy to really make it

360

: 00:22:23

memorable, shareable, transferable.

361

: 00:22:26

Because for me, we are

all just one person.

362

: 00:22:29

We can't be everywhere at once.

363

: 00:22:31

I mean, I know some people try to

be, but that feels exhausting, so we

364

: 00:22:36

want our message and our impact to

go beyond us, and that's where the

365

: 00:22:41

visual aspect of a framework is so

important, 'cause it can travel without

366

: 00:22:46

your explanation, like embedded, so

it's no longer just a performance

367

: 00:22:51

John: so let's say

we've got our framework.

368

: 00:22:52

We haven't used AI to do it, but

we want to have a, a striking

369

: 00:22:56

visual, framework that we can use

in our talks and presentations.

370

: 00:23:02

what, what tools do we

have available to us?

371

: 00:23:05

What makes a, a visually striking,

framework that we can utilize?

372

: 00:23:11

Susanna Reay: What I recommend,

and again, this pulls on … You

373

: 00:23:15

might hear me reference various

psychological tools, and one of my

374

: 00:23:19

early studies was actually in psychology

as well, which is why I do this.

375

: 00:23:23

But within behavioral science, there

is a concept which is about having

376

: 00:23:28

new but safe things, and you see this

across advertising, across marketing.

377

: 00:23:33

So the safe is using something that

is known, and then the new is what

378

: 00:23:38

you're adding to it, the a- added lens.

379

: 00:23:41

So what I do with frameworks, if you

want to get started, I see there's five

380

: 00:23:45

core IP families, and if we use these,

these are the safe known structures

381

: 00:23:51

that the brain understands instantly.

382

: 00:23:53

And then the new piece is your process,

how you bring your ideas on top of that.

383

: 00:24:00

So very simply, these are, the

first is like a linear roadmap

384

: 00:24:05

when you've got A to B and there's

a couple of points along the way.

385

: 00:24:09

Any brain that sees that knows, "Oh,

okay, I'm going from here to there."

386

: 00:24:13

It's a sequence.

387

: 00:24:16

The next could be a circular, so

that mastery comes from repetition.

388

: 00:24:22

So it could be that your idea is that

people need to do a surface level first,

389

: 00:24:26

then they go deeper with the next layer,

and it's very iterative, the circle.

390

: 00:24:31

Some people, particularly life

coaching happens in that space

391

: 00:24:36

because there's always extra room

for improvement, and probably even

392

: 00:24:40

speaker coaching, to be honest,

that you learn and you learn again.

393

: 00:24:44

You never stop learning.

394

: 00:24:45

A good speaker never

comes to a standstill.

395

: 00:24:48

They always lean in.

396

: 00:24:51

Another, the third version that I talk

about is a pyramid which has layers.

397

: 00:24:58

One of the most famous

most people recognize is

398

: 00:25:01

Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

399

: 00:25:03

You start at a base layer, you

move to the top, which in Maslow's

400

: 00:25:07

case is self-actualization, but

there's steps along the way.

401

: 00:25:11

The human brain goes,

402

: 00:25:12

"Right,

403

: 00:25:12

I've gotta start at the base, and I know

I'm going to the pinnacle at the top."

404

: 00:25:17

John: a stop

405

: 00:25:19

Susanna Reay: The fourth is, let's

take you back to school days and maths.

406

: 00:25:23

Doesn't everyone love maths?

407

: 00:25:25

We did Venn diagrams.

408

: 00:25:27

How many red cars, blue cars,

green cars are out there?

409

: 00:25:31

Again, the Venn, every child is taught

this back in the day in school, but it's

410

: 00:25:37

a brilliant way that if you bring together

different pillars of thought and where you

411

: 00:25:43

are working on is bringing those pieces

together at the center, then the Venn is

412

: 00:25:49

a lovely, safe, visual mechanism to use.

413

: 00:25:53

And the last is based on a

two-by-two matrix, a square.

414

: 00:25:59

And with this one, the importance is,

is, the axes, because if your work takes

415

: 00:26:05

you on two journeys of transformation

that you help and support people with,

416

: 00:26:11

then being able to map this into a

matrix is really easy to understand.

417

: 00:26:17

The Eisenhower Matrix

is a very popular one.

418

: 00:26:21

The do, delete, delegate and…

419

: 00:26:25

I've forgotten the fourth right now.

420

: 00:26:27

There's four in there,

but it's very much…

421

: 00:26:31

They're easy, simple structures.

422

: 00:26:33

So I'm not talking about

being an artist here.

423

: 00:26:36

All these you can create

on any software, basically.

424

: 00:26:40

You can even draw it down on a sticky

note, and this is one of the elements I

425

: 00:26:48

encourage everyone, when we're talking

about simplifying, is simplify down

426

: 00:26:52

to the size of, you know, a three-inch

square sticky note, and see, can

427

: 00:26:58

you put your ideas to that small?

428

: 00:27:00

Small for a reason, because it needs

to be really simple, and my framework

429

: 00:27:07

thinking visual is in fact a triangle

with one triangle in the middle of it.

430

: 00:27:12

It's very simple 'cause there's

four elements within that,

431

: 00:27:15

that I ask everyone to look at

432

: 00:27:17

John: Yeah.

433

: 00:27:18

one of the reasons I really like this,

and, and I'll tell you one of the things

434

: 00:27:21

that you, you're inspiring me to want to

do here, Susanna, is, one of the things

435

: 00:27:26

that maybe costs us the most in brain

energy each day is, is task switching.

436

: 00:27:33

You probably heard this, but when

we change from doing one thing

437

: 00:27:35

to or think about one thing to

another, uh, it is quite a big

438

: 00:27:38

cognitive load that we're using up.

439

: 00:27:40

I feel like if, for me particularly, if

I have my frameworks in visual form in

440

: 00:27:46

front of me on the wall, that's gonna save

me a lot of cognitive load energy, when

441

: 00:27:53

I'm switching between those or working

on different elements of what I'm doing.

442

: 00:27:57

I really like, I really like that.

443

: 00:27:59

I'm very excited to do that

444

: 00:28:01

Susanna Reay: I can see that whiteboard

behind you, John, that you totally

445

: 00:28:05

need to have the drawn structures,

and I'm all for pen and paper.

446

: 00:28:11

Get it out of your head.

447

: 00:28:14

And in fact, my book on framework

thinking, someone asked me the other

448

: 00:28:17

day, "What was the first thing you wrote?

449

: 00:28:19

Like, how did you start your book?"

450

: 00:28:21

Because obviously a lot of

speakers also write a book.

451

: 00:28:24

They have the book.

452

: 00:28:25

It's called The Expert Trifecta, and

in how I describe it, that you have

453

: 00:28:29

your talk, the book, and the course

454

: 00:28:32

And for me, when I had

455

: 00:28:34

to

456

: 00:28:34

stop

457

: 00:28:34

and think because it it was

probably a good like 14, 15

458

: 00:28:37

months ago when I was like,

"Right, this is going to happen."

459

: 00:28:41

But it started with a sketch, and I've

got the sketchbook still, and I went

460

: 00:28:46

back to it, and I opened up on page one.

461

: 00:28:49

There was the sketch of me mapping out

what were those key elements of framework

462

: 00:28:54

thinking that I wanted to discuss.

463

: 00:28:57

Now, interestingly, and I want to

share this with the listeners, that

464

: 00:29:01

even myself, a final framework doesn't

come, like, it's not like a magical

465

: 00:29:07

download that just pops out of your

head in perfect finished space.

466

: 00:29:12

It does need to be worked

with and have iteration.

467

: 00:29:16

And my- that first iteration, I was

actually using the two-by-two matrix,

468

: 00:29:21

'cause I was thinking, "I think there's,

like, four elements here," so that was,

469

: 00:29:24

like, a natural first shape to work on.

470

: 00:29:27

But as I went deeper, I realized it

needed to move into the triangular

471

: 00:29:32

structure because the four

elements in it actually are visual

472

: 00:29:37

recognition at the top, in the top

473

: 00:29:39

triangle.

474

: 00:29:40

The bottom left triangle is about

impact detection, which I mentioned

475

: 00:29:45

earlier on about seeing the

patterns that are already there.

476

: 00:29:49

The bottom right is boundary setting.

477

: 00:29:52

So important for experts to simplify.

478

: 00:29:55

You need to know what's in and what's out.

479

: 00:29:57

But at the heart of it all, and this is

the middle sort of upside-down triangle,

480

: 00:30:02

equilateral triangle in the middle,

if you're visualizing this one in your

481

: 00:30:06

head.

482

: 00:30:07

is transfer integrity.

483

: 00:30:09

And this is the point

where I've mentioned that

484

: 00:30:11

it's like the business

card being passed on.

485

: 00:30:14

Are your ideas moving outside

of the room without you As well?

486

: 00:30:19

And because I

487

: 00:30:20

realized transfer integrity,

it wasn't on an axis, It wasn't

488

: 00:30:25

a destination, it's actually at the

489

: 00:30:27

heart of framework thinking.

490

: 00:30:29

I was then thinking, "Okay, so what's

a visual that can represent this?"

491

: 00:30:35

And I chose the triangle as well because

the triangle is one of the strongest

492

: 00:30:39

forms in nature, is very solid, and it

holds, and it lasts the test of time.

493

: 00:30:45

So it also reflected the values,

ethos, the messaging that I wanted

494

: 00:30:50

to have behind the framework, and

this is where we go deep and why it's

495

: 00:30:55

far more than having just a word.

496

: 00:30:58

Some- there are great frameworks which

are a word, but if you want to go

497

: 00:31:05

deep and become really memorable, the

biggest ideas have traveled as shapes.

498

: 00:31:11

People like Simon- Simon Sinek's

Golden Circles Even in his TEDx

499

: 00:31:18

talk back in 2009 when he introduced

that, he was unknown at that point.

500

: 00:31:23

He stepped onto the stage, he had the

flip chart, he drew three circles, one

501

: 00:31:27

inside the other, and he started talking.

502

: 00:31:30

And one of the first phrases, like

go back and listen to this, is

503

: 00:31:34

he says, "I didn't invent this.

504

: 00:31:37

I've just codified what works in

corporations," and that is the start

505

: 00:31:42

with why, and I call this my go- the

golden circle, where you want to be.

506

: 00:31:47

And it's that codification piece is,

as an expert, if you can codify what

507

: 00:31:53

is happening around you and what

you are doing, that is gold in your

508

: 00:31:57

business that you're missing out on

if you haven't done this work yet

509

: 00:32:00

John: Yeah.

510

: 00:32:01

I, I think there's a level to which we

naturally assume, whether consciously

511

: 00:32:07

or not, that somebody being able to

simplify something that hasn't been

512

: 00:32:12

simplified that well before or codifying

it, as you say, in, in a way that is

513

: 00:32:17

very understandable and has that visual

representation, there is an element to

514

: 00:32:22

which I think we just trust that that

takes a specific level of intelligence.

515

: 00:32:26

There's like a smartness

to getting to that.

516

: 00:32:29

If you can help us understand something

that well, we're gonna credit you with

517

: 00:32:34

being some kind of fricking genius

because you helped us to understand

518

: 00:32:38

something more, more clearly.

519

: 00:32:40

And I think that's un- almost

undoubted in, in the business

520

: 00:32:46

Susanna Reay: Totally.

521

: 00:32:47

I'm just in full agreement

with that statement.

522

: 00:32:49

I'm like, "Yes."

523

: 00:32:51

John: Let me, let me ask you then.

524

: 00:32:52

I mean, you, you mentioned about,

uh, the AI maybe creating these

525

: 00:32:58

frameworks and making them not as

perfect as we think they might be.

526

: 00:33:03

If we're gonna create our own

frameworks, do, do they need to

527

: 00:33:06

be, do they need to be acronyms?

528

: 00:33:07

Do they need to be words?

529

: 00:33:09

Uh, I mean, I…

530

: 00:33:10

We see a lot of the good frameworks

out there, like, like your own,

531

: 00:33:13

that are words that make sense or

fit with your brand, but that's

532

: 00:33:17

not always gonna work out that way.

533

: 00:33:19

And as you said, sometimes you end

up really forcing it and end up with

534

: 00:33:22

these very tenuous kind of words in,

in the framework just to get the word.

535

: 00:33:27

What, what's the right approach

to take then if you, "Oh, I

536

: 00:33:30

really want it to be this.

537

: 00:33:31

It's my branding and everything.

538

: 00:33:33

am I gonna do?"

539

: 00:33:34

Susanna Reay: There's

two approaches to this.

540

: 00:33:37

A framework always needs

a name and a title.

541

: 00:33:41

So I've got my framework

thinking triangle.

542

: 00:33:43

The four elements inside

do not create a word.

543

: 00:33:48

So visual recognition, boundary setting,

impact detection, transfer integrity.

544

: 00:33:53

That does not create a word.

545

: 00:33:54

That's fine because it works as is.

546

: 00:33:57

But the SPARK process, which I

take people through, absolutely.

547

: 00:34:01

SPARK stands for self,

premise, art, reach, and kudos.

548

: 00:34:06

And that has the advantage when you

can do that, but you don't want a word

549

: 00:34:11

more than five letters, by the way.

550

: 00:34:13

Most people fail at this point

because it becomes too long.

551

: 00:34:17

You also need a word where every letter

is different, so we're minimizing how many

552

: 00:34:22

words you could even use with this, 'cause

you don't want to have any repetition

553

: 00:34:27

if it's based on your framework.

554

: 00:34:29

But having Having a word that is a

mnemonic where people can understand,

555

: 00:34:36

say, "Oh, what did S stand for?

556

: 00:34:37

Oh, A is art."

557

: 00:34:39

And sometimes it lands and it

works, is what I will say, but

558

: 00:34:45

you don't want to force it.

559

: 00:34:47

For me, it was a culmination, and

using the word spark even came up from

560

: 00:34:54

client and testimonial feedback going,

"Susannah, you're sparking ideas.

561

: 00:34:58

You've inspired me," and

it became part of it.

562

: 00:35:01

But when I was looking at, well,

what is the process I take people

563

: 00:35:06

through, it just naturally fell

and worked, though I did have to…

564

: 00:35:11

It took me a little bit, I must admit,

when I was going, "Well, would K work?"

565

: 00:35:15

Until I realized, actually, kudos.

566

: 00:35:17

And for me, kudos is the point, actually.

567

: 00:35:19

We're not being positive in the space.

568

: 00:35:21

That's when the reward and

recognition come back to you,

569

: 00:35:24

so you can't force that element.

570

: 00:35:26

So the active pieces of the SPARK process

is actually S, P, A, and R, and that

571

: 00:35:33

helps people undoubtedly remember and

go, "This is where I am on the journey."

572

: 00:35:38

So I'm not anti using that.

573

: 00:35:41

I'm saying use it when

it works and matches.

574

: 00:35:44

Don't use the word visibility.

575

: 00:35:46

Don't use, like, long words with

multiple sections if you can help

576

: 00:35:50

it, because our brains, and again,

lots of research have gone into

577

: 00:35:55

this, five or under, seven maximum.

578

: 00:35:58

An example, rainbows, right?

579

: 00:36:01

What colors are in rainbows?

580

: 00:36:02

As a kid, we then,

like, learn different…

581

: 00:36:05

I know in my head I've got Roy G.

582

: 00:36:07

Biv.

583

: 00:36:08

It makes no sense whatsoever, but

other people, they have whole sentences

584

: 00:36:13

instead to remember what it is.

585

: 00:36:16

But that's because seven is way

harder for our brain to remember.

586

: 00:36:20

If it's five or under, ideally

five, four, or three, our

587

: 00:36:23

brains love to work in threes.

588

: 00:36:26

So for me, the best frameworks, you're

condensing down between three, four,

589

: 00:36:30

or five components, and therefore,

if you have a word to describe

590

: 00:36:33

that, let's make sure the word is

three, four, or five letters long,

591

: 00:36:38

with all separate letters as well.

592

: 00:36:40

So I'm not asking much there, John.

593

: 00:36:42

If you want a word, it's

got to be a specific word

594

: 00:36:45

John: You know, I, I would tend to

encourage speakers to go more for around

595

: 00:36:48

the five simply because I think it's

always good to have a few elements that

596

: 00:36:53

you're very clearly not going to cover

in your talk, because you're probably

597

: 00:36:57

only really gonna do two or three.

598

: 00:36:59

Um, but if you do run for more

time, you could include a f- a

599

: 00:37:03

fourth one, uh, or you could spend

a bit more time on the others.

600

: 00:37:07

But you also have the opportunity,

like you introduce the whole

601

: 00:37:09

framework and people already

know that there's more there that

602

: 00:37:12

you're not gonna be covering today.

603

: 00:37:14

That, hey, you know, we've got 45 minutes,

whatever, this is what we're gonna cover

604

: 00:37:17

today, but here's the whole framework.

605

: 00:37:19

I think that's a really great tool

to set things up and to seed that

606

: 00:37:23

idea of like, especially if you're

selling workshops and, coaching or any

607

: 00:37:27

other elements to go with the talk,

people know you're not giving them

608

: 00:37:31

everything right now because you can't.

609

: 00:37:33

You wanna make sure they get the

essence of what they have right now,

610

: 00:37:36

but you've already planted those seeds.

611

: 00:37:38

Uh, a lot more likely to go, "I think we

want those other bits as well afterwards."

612

: 00:37:44

It's C.

613

: 00:37:45

Susanna Reay: One of the important

pieces to remember here though is

614

: 00:37:48

if you've got a framework with five

pieces, that's the 20,000-foot level.

615

: 00:37:54

There are sub-frameworks.

616

: 00:37:55

There are pieces below it.

617

: 00:37:57

So even if you only have a

three-piece framework, you can

618

: 00:38:01

talk about one, but you're gonna

have multiple elements underneath.

619

: 00:38:04

So you might go deep on one and

actually share another two sub-points

620

: 00:38:10

underneath the one if you've got

three points, because again, this

621

: 00:38:14

is the, this is the umbrella of…

622

: 00:38:17

Literally, it's a…

623

: 00:38:18

I love the umbrella for this reason.

624

: 00:38:20

It's like you're holding it above

your head, and people are seeing

625

: 00:38:23

this is the overview of your ideas.

626

: 00:38:27

It's not the nitty-gritty detail.

627

: 00:38:29

It- you can't share all of that on stage.

628

: 00:38:34

Yes, you can

629

: 00:38:35

you can give the overview of the

journey, and this is where it's going

630

: 00:38:38

to go, and I do agree that you want

to show, like even if it's three, you

631

: 00:38:44

might only talk about one, but that

doesn't mean within the one you've got

632

: 00:38:48

multiple depths and layers that you'll

have below it to make people understand.

633

: 00:38:54

Because then they'll go, "Oh my gosh,

if that's under this one, what's

634

: 00:38:57

happening under two and three?"

635

: 00:38:58

So it can work with three,

four or five for that reason.

636

: 00:39:03

But beyond that, yeah, people's brains

start to go, "Ah, I'm in overwhelm.

637

: 00:39:07

I don't wanna work with them.

638

: 00:39:08

They're gonna fire hose me with

content, and I'm gonna end up in a

639

: 00:39:12

dribbly little heap on the floor."

640

: 00:39:14

John: frameworks all the way down.

641

: 00:39:16

but I think that, that's

worth going to look at.

642

: 00:39:18

I clearly haven't got to

that part of the book yet.

643

: 00:39:19

I'm looking forward to when I do.

644

: 00:39:21

now I, I have, the electronic

version of your book.

645

: 00:39:25

I tend to go with those just for

ease, but yours might be one of

646

: 00:39:29

the exceptions whereas I, I think I

really want the physical copy 'cause

647

: 00:39:32

it's such a beautiful looking book.

648

: 00:39:34

I mean, maybe for if you have one to

hand, Susanna, maybe for our viewers

649

: 00:39:37

who are watching this on, on YouTube,

uh, um, that they can actually

650

: 00:39:41

see how attractive your book looks

651

: 00:39:44

Susanna Reay: Yes, I do.

652

: 00:39:45

In fact, I'm just going to whiz

backwards because I've got one for

653

: 00:39:51

my bookcase, 'cause I realized the

one in front of me is all scrappy.

654

: 00:39:54

So I will share.

655

: 00:39:56

So this is the book.

656

: 00:39:58

It's a square, and

you're absolutely right.

657

: 00:40:01

Like, since I've launched, I've had lots

of feedback, because one of the advantages

658

: 00:40:05

of the square format is it's slightly

wider, and you can see inside it's…

659

: 00:40:11

There's lots of images,

and there's examples.

660

: 00:40:15

And what it will do, if I hold it

kind of flat but in the air so you can

661

: 00:40:19

see, is it will sit open on your desk.

662

: 00:40:22

So if…

663

: 00:40:23

It's designed to be implementable

with practical exercises, so you

664

: 00:40:27

can have it next to you and work

through and do the exercises.

665

: 00:40:32

Obviously, on an e-book, you

can have that, you know, up on

666

: 00:40:35

your screen, on your desktop.

667

: 00:40:37

But I've already been told that lots

of people have been, like, writing…

668

: 00:40:40

Like, people who like to write

in books, they will do that.

669

: 00:40:44

For people who don't, I do have an online

book resource where all the exercises

670

: 00:40:49

you can just download as a separate

document, so you can then print that

671

: 00:40:53

out as well, which with the e-book you

can do if you wanted just the exercises.

672

: 00:40:58

But everyone who holds it goes,

"Ooh, it feels really nice,"

673

: 00:41:02

because this is the designer in me.

674

: 00:41:04

I'm a bit of a paper snob as well.

675

: 00:41:07

It's like it has to be printed on premium

paper, and it is full color for that

676

: 00:41:13

purpose, because I love a good book.

677

: 00:41:16

I've always loved books.

678

: 00:41:17

And so again, when I talked about

your branding and your values, for me,

679

: 00:41:23

my brand values equally show in how

I've produced the book in that sense,

680

: 00:41:30

because it echoes everything I do.

681

: 00:41:32

And in fact, Can we see?

682

: 00:41:34

Where's the best way?

683

: 00:41:35

So this is the framework thinking

triangle as well, the full triangle and

684

: 00:41:40

the smaller triangle inside as well,

where I go into in depth inside the book

685

: 00:41:46

John: Well, it's great.

686

: 00:41:47

Look, it's a very, a very beautiful

looking book, and I think even

687

: 00:41:50

in terms of making things more

memorable for people, these are all

688

: 00:41:54

elements that will do that as well.

689

: 00:41:57

And I think it's, it's easy to

underestimate how much the s- smaller

690

: 00:42:02

things that may seem unimportant

can make a bigger difference.

691

: 00:42:07

Now, there's a degree to which I'm all

for, like, if that's not where you're at

692

: 00:42:10

right now, just get the stuff done and

get it out there as imperfect as you want.

693

: 00:42:14

But when you get to a point where it's

like, "Oh, I have a bit more scope and

694

: 00:42:18

availability to be able to go to do those

sort of nice little touches as well,"

695

: 00:42:23

and if that's part of how you'd like

your brand to be, that's what the s- the

696

: 00:42:27

kind of stuff that makes you stand out.

697

: 00:42:29

Here's, here's one of the things

I really think with this as well.

698

: 00:42:32

people are trying…

699

: 00:42:33

This comes up so often on the show,

but people are trying to be a version

700

: 00:42:38

of something very often when they're

a speaker or when they're a coach,

701

: 00:42:43

and not, as you said right from the

start, just trying to be themselves.

702

: 00:42:47

But what they end up doing because

of that is making it harder for

703

: 00:42:52

people to connect with them because

they don't know who you are.

704

: 00:42:55

If you're not showing up as yourself,

you're showing up as some idea of what you

705

: 00:43:00

think you're supposed to be showing up as.

706

: 00:43:02

That's impenetrable for most people.

707

: 00:43:05

It's like they say, "Well, you just

seem like this sort of professional.

708

: 00:43:08

You, you know, kind of

seem like everyone else.

709

: 00:43:10

I don't know how to connect

and relate to that."

710

: 00:43:12

All these little elements and things

that go into, like, the way you've

711

: 00:43:16

shown up here today, the way you talk

about things, the way you present

712

: 00:43:19

everything is very connectable and

relatable, Susanna, and I think a

713

: 00:43:23

lot of people just don't have that.

714

: 00:43:25

But I think this is some ways

giving people some of the

715

: 00:43:28

keys to be able to create it

716

: 00:43:32

Susanna Reay: Thank you for sharing that.

717

: 00:43:34

And for listeners earlier on in their

journey, I'd like to say me today was

718

: 00:43:41

not me 10 years ago It's a journey.

719

: 00:43:45

No one comes out with this,

and in fact, for those who…

720

: 00:43:52

I've been working online for over

20 years, but for the first, gosh,

721

: 00:43:58

definitely for the first 12, I was

totally hidden in the sense of I

722

: 00:44:03

wasn't on video, I wasn't on camera.

723

: 00:44:06

You wouldn't…

724

: 00:44:07

The only time, I

725

: 00:44:08

mean, yes, I was

726

: 00:44:08

working on Skype, but that

would be for direct clients.

727

: 00:44:11

There was none of this visibility

piece, and I definitely

728

: 00:44:15

wasn't speaking on stages.

729

: 00:44:18

Like, it's been a massive journey, and

even if I look back to early videos, like,

730

: 00:44:26

for those who are seeing me on camera, or

even if you're listening on the podcast

731

: 00:44:31

and go, "Yeah, I want to know what she's

talking about now," just, you know, take

732

: 00:44:33

a quick look that you'll see behind me

I've got my blue wall, I've got sparks

733

: 00:44:39

of stars, I've got lots of multicolored

things because even my logo, in fact,

734

: 00:44:44

there's a set of drawers behind me.

735

: 00:44:45

Those are the colors of

my logo, my branding.

736

: 00:44:49

But when I started showing up

online, that was a white wall.

737

: 00:44:53

That was a white unit.

738

: 00:44:54

In fact, it's just like both the

bookcase and the unit behind me,

739

: 00:44:58

they were standard white IKEA units.

740

: 00:45:01

We've all got them.

741

: 00:45:02

The Billy bookcase, you

know, we all know it.

742

: 00:45:05

And then I was like one day, oh, color

is something that doesn't cost the world

743

: 00:45:10

but makes a massive impact, and there's

a whole piece on color psychology I

744

: 00:45:14

could go into that I absolutely love And

this wall behind me, which is blue with

745

: 00:45:19

stars, my whole office isn't like that.

746

: 00:45:22

The other walls are white painted,

but they've got lots of things on them

747

: 00:45:26

because it's my office cum studio.

748

: 00:45:29

As I mentioned, I am an artist as well,

but I do that for fun, so you don't

749

: 00:45:34

need to be an artist to do frameworks.

750

: 00:45:37

But how you turn up and present, and

this is where as well purposely in

751

: 00:45:42

branding you can pick your colors.

752

: 00:45:44

You can…

753

: 00:45:45

But I do always encourage people, don't

pick necessarily your favorite colors.

754

: 00:45:50

They might be your favorite colors,

but look to the meanings behind them.

755

: 00:45:55

Think about your audience.

756

: 00:45:57

What does your audience connect with?

757

: 00:45:59

How do you want to be presented?

758

: 00:46:01

There's a reason why, even though

it drives me stir crazy, but

759

: 00:46:06

like LinkedIn and Facebook have

pretty much an identical blue.

760

: 00:46:09

You go to banks and it's more of a

navy blue 'cause blues evoke trust.

761

: 00:46:14

Blues quite often are very much

about communication as well.

762

: 00:46:18

I've picked the more teal turquoise

blue because it's more vibrant, it's

763

: 00:46:23

sparking ideas, but it is about core

communication, and I established that

764

: 00:46:28

as one of the key colors in my branding

which is why when it came to my book it

765

: 00:46:33

was also how do I want to bring in the

blue- And in fact, I've got yellow on the

766

: 00:46:39

book rather than a gold effect, 'cause

when you're printing flat that can be

767

: 00:46:43

hard and the yellow stands out better.

768

: 00:46:46

But then when I launched my book at

the book launch, I mean, I made the

769

: 00:46:50

joke, and I think this is probably

one of the speaker skills I'm sure

770

: 00:46:54

you share, is if there's an elephant

in the room, name it upfront.

771

: 00:46:59

And I purposely, I had a yellow

shirt and a blue cardigan on,

772

: 00:47:03

exactly the same colors of this.

773

: 00:47:05

And I was like…

774

: 00:47:06

John: Very nice

775

: 00:47:07

Susanna Reay: And I was like,

"Yes, this, this is part of

776

: 00:47:09

my consistency of showing up."

777

: 00:47:12

But as an introvert in business, oh,

God, and we've all been, we've all been

778

: 00:47:17

to those horrific networking rooms, and

10 years ago, absolutely, and I still

779

: 00:47:23

think they exist in a lot of places

where everyone rocks up wearing black

780

: 00:47:28

John: Right

781

: 00:47:29

Susanna Reay: Maybe if there's a woman

in the room, she'll be wearing a red

782

: 00:47:32

dress, 'cause red brings confidence.

783

: 00:47:34

Black is very much about hiding

and being one of the masses.

784

: 00:47:39

If you rock up in a color

that's linked to your branding,

785

: 00:47:43

one, it opens conversations.

786

: 00:47:46

I've never had a moment…

787

: 00:47:47

And before, even if you're not into

wearing bright clothes, have an accessory.

788

: 00:47:51

You might, as a man, i've seen, you

know, you get really funky colored

789

: 00:47:54

trainers these days, where you

could say, like, if orange is in my

790

: 00:47:58

brand, you can get orange trainers

or green trainers or blue trainers.

791

: 00:48:02

Color is something you can pick

and use, and whether it's on

792

: 00:48:07

stage and being bold, and that can

go throughout your whole brand.

793

: 00:48:13

But it's not an expensive element

to think about and bring consistency

794

: 00:48:18

to also give that visual imprint.

795

: 00:48:20

So even before you've got a structure,

think what is the color that really

796

: 00:48:25

evokes the feelings, the connection,

the recognition I want to have?

797

: 00:48:32

The opposite of this, bro marketers,

they always pick red and black.

798

: 00:48:37

Everyone, everyone out there.

799

: 00:48:39

So look, what are other people doing?

800

: 00:48:41

Who do you want to feel

in the same place with?

801

: 00:48:45

So please, yes, that's on the visual

side, but color is so important,

802

: 00:48:50

whether you're speaking on stage,

whether it's your outfit, whether it's

803

: 00:48:53

your, the back of your presentation

slides, if you have slides.

804

: 00:48:56

If it's your props, you can find

props in all sorts of colors, so

805

: 00:49:00

they could be your signature color.

806

: 00:49:01

So if red is in your brand,

your props could all be red.

807

: 00:49:04

You could have a red telephone.

808

: 00:49:05

You could have a red ball, and then

that would make that imagery, and

809

: 00:49:10

when people take photos of you,

stand out because you're following

810

: 00:49:13

through with your branding.

811

: 00:49:15

John: Yeah

812

: 00:49:16

Susanna Reay: down a little side

quest there, but I find it important.

813

: 00:49:19

John: No, I like that.

814

: 00:49:20

And why not, why not add a bit

of color and brightness into

815

: 00:49:23

the world because, we need it.

816

: 00:49:26

We need that, and it cheers

us up a lot of the time.

817

: 00:49:28

Susanna, I, I, I can only highly

recommend that people check out

818

: 00:49:32

your book, and I always appreciate,

uh … I, I'm very fortunate that

819

: 00:49:36

I get to regularly appreciate

your insights and your expertise.

820

: 00:49:39

But now my audience, my listener can get

to appreciate your excellent and expertise

821

: 00:49:44

as well through, through your book.

822

: 00:49:46

But there are probably other ways they

can connect with you if they'd like

823

: 00:49:48

to find out more about Frameworks,

about Spark Framework and what you do.

824

: 00:49:53

What's the best way for people to

get in touch with you if they'd

825

: 00:49:55

like to know more about what you do?

826

: 00:49:58

Susanna Reay: Well, the easiest way

to remember when you're listening is

827

: 00:50:01

if you go to frameworkthinking.uk,

828

: 00:50:04

that takes you to my website

and talks about the book.

829

: 00:50:08

When you're on my website,

you can navigate around.

830

: 00:50:11

I've got lots of open articles as well.

831

: 00:50:14

And if you're on LinkedIn, I do rather

like LinkedIn connections, so find me

832

: 00:50:19

@SuzannaReay and say, tell me, share that

you've heard me right now on this podcast

833

: 00:50:25

with John, and share what your takeaways

are, because I know we'd both love that.

834

: 00:50:30

So just reach out, connect, and say,

"I heard you on John's podcast."

835

: 00:50:35

John: Good way to do it.

836

: 00:50:36

Susanna, really appreciate

everything you shared today.

837

: 00:50:39

It's been a pleasure to finally get you

onto the show, and I hope that we can have

838

: 00:50:42

you back again in the future to come and

share some more excellence in frameworks

839

: 00:50:48

and all your other areas of expertise.

840

: 00:50:50

Thank you for bringing your sparkle today.

841

: 00:50:52

And, Go out and get the book, get

the Framework Thinking, because

842

: 00:50:55

this is really important, and it

will potentially revolutionize how

843

: 00:50:59

you are sharing your information.

844

: 00:51:02

I've been reading Susanna's book, and

I'd say it's one of those books that

845

: 00:51:05

would I recommend it to every speaker?

846

: 00:51:06

Absolutely.

847

: 00:51:07

Every professional speaker

should read this book.

848

: 00:51:09

got it on digital first, but then

Susanna very kindly sent me a copy.

849

: 00:51:14

It's a gorgeous little book.

850

: 00:51:15

It has lots of beautiful

illustrations inside.

851

: 00:51:19

It's very high-quality paper.

852

: 00:51:21

If you like having nice things, I do

recommend getting the physical copy.

853

: 00:51:26

Now, of course, if you want to contact

Susanna and get one directly from

854

: 00:51:29

her, she might even sign it for you.

855

: 00:51:31

Now, of course, you can go and work

with Susanna in real life, and I would

856

: 00:51:35

recommend it if you really want to turn

up your game with your frameworks and

857

: 00:51:40

sparkle yours up with Susanna's expert

attention, You'll find all the details

858

: 00:51:45

for how to contact Susanna in the show

notes Now I probably will put out an

859

: 00:51:50

announcement about this, but for you

who's listened this far, I don't know

860

: 00:51:54

if this is a reward or not, but you

get to know first before anyone else.

861

: 00:51:57

So I've decided to cut back the output of

this show to just two episodes a month.

862

: 00:52:02

So for the time being, you'll still

get a guest chat and a solo episode,

863

: 00:52:07

but every two weeks now instead

of weekly, and that is as of now.

864

: 00:52:11

So next week, no episode, but we'll be

back again in a couple of weeks' time.

865

: 00:52:16

However, I am putting out more

speaking business and speaking-related

866

: 00:52:21

content on LinkedIn, Instagram, and

TikTok, so please make sure you are

867

: 00:52:25

following me on one of those channels.

868

: 00:52:28

I'm also putting out some exclusive

content on my YouTube channel.

869

: 00:52:32

If you'd like to access any of that,

it won't be coming to the podcast

870

: 00:52:36

at all, it's completely separate.

871

: 00:52:39

You'll find links in the show

notes, and I'll still be doing

872

: 00:52:43

the Serious About Speaking

newsletter on LinkedIn every week.

873

: 00:52:47

So basically is, it's just about time

management and effectiveness as well.

874

: 00:52:52

This show is a lot of work to make

and to produce, and I really need

875

: 00:52:57

to focus on growing my own coaching

and speaking business, not so

876

: 00:53:01

much on growing the podcast, at

least for the foreseeable future.

877

: 00:53:05

So that's all from me for this week.

878

: 00:53:07

But have an amazing week, go and

do something worth talking about.

879

: 00:53:12

I'll see you next time.