Episode 157
Are you missing out on brand growth opportunities in podcasting?
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Transcript
Why is it that so many podcasters and podcast guests are doing
John Ball:stuff that doesn't work is often boring and may even be damaging to their
John Ball:personal brand and professional future?
John Ball:Welcome to Podfluence, the podcast that helps coaches and speakers build
John Ball:professional authority through podcasting.
John Ball:In this episode, we're gonna take a look at some of the bad advice out
John Ball:there and some of the things that I see people doing and have probably
John Ball:even done myself from time to time.
John Ball:That doesn't work, especially as a podcast guest who is looking to build authority,
John Ball:become known, and maybe even get invited back onto some of the best podcasts.
John Ball:Okay, let's start the show.
John Ball:Now.
John Ball:I can remember being on my way home one time on the bus that I've taken
John Ball:many times, passing through the city center of Valencia where I live,
John Ball:and we reached a stop by the train station and everyone else on the bus
John Ball:got off except for me and the driver.
John Ball:Now the urge to get up and get off the bus was so.
John Ball:I almost did thinking, well, this must be the final stop.
John Ball:Maybe for some reason there had been no announcement from the driver, and the
John Ball:driver wasn't telling me to get off.
John Ball:I convinced myself to stay put.
John Ball:The doors closed, the bus carried on.
John Ball:We trust the wisdom of the crowd, even at times when we shouldn't.
John Ball:And I see and hear it all the time in podcasting.
John Ball:In continuing with my series on the seven deadly sins of podcasting, we
John Ball:Reach number three, ignorance or what?
John Ball:Lack of awareness.
John Ball:It's an especially important one for podcasters because most of us get into it
John Ball:without a clue what we are doing at first, and many will make the same mistakes
John Ball:that I, myself and countless others.
John Ball:Of thinking that if you're having fun and enjoying it, then your audience will too.
John Ball:I know I've said that and I've heard many other people say it too.
John Ball:This is a wild and unfounded assumption, but I'm not gonna suggest that you
John Ball:shouldn't enjoy your podcast experiences.
John Ball:But let's take a look at the list so far.
John Ball:So number one in our list of seven Deadly podcast sins was
John Ball:gluttony, self-indulgence.
John Ball:Number two was selfishness.
John Ball:Number three is then ignorance or lack of awareness that still
John Ball:leads us with 4, 5, 6, and seven
John Ball:to come and they will be following pretty soon.
John Ball:So we are not quite even halfway on the list yet, but this issue
John Ball:may be the one that I hear most commonly from the podcasters that
John Ball:I speak with on a daily basis.
John Ball:Whilst it's true that you don't know what you don't, Ignorance may allow
John Ball:for some short-term bliss, but in the long run it becomes painful.
John Ball:We don't want to put in the work.
John Ball:We hate the long-term process, and we just want to sit down and hit record,
John Ball:but that's rarely a recipe for magic.
John Ball:It's more like the ingredients for a casserole of mediocrity that
John Ball:you'll be eating for every meal.
John Ball:And maybe I need to ask my friend Simon Lancaster for some
John Ball:help with my metaphors here.
John Ball:So he is ignorance bliss.
John Ball:Well, ignorance allows others to take advantage of us and it allows
John Ball:us to think that we're doing great when we might actually be failing.
John Ball:Choosing not to learn the ropes or receive any feedback on what you do or
John Ball:how to improve it is gonna culminate in one massive reality check that
John Ball:will pull the rug from under you,
John Ball:and make you feel like the fool you hadn't realized you were, if
John Ball:you don't hit pod fade before them.
John Ball:I've had some similar experiences in public speaking.
John Ball:It can be humiliating and most people will lose their drive and maybe even
John Ball:quit after an experience like that.
John Ball:So, how do our brains work against us?
John Ball:Well, our brains are complicated things, but that doesn't always
John Ball:mean that we are complicated beings.
John Ball:The brain uses a lot of energy each day, about 20% of our energy
John Ball:reserves even in a resting state.
John Ball:Certainly more when we start to tax it.
John Ball:So it should come as no surprise that our brains like to conserve energy by
John Ball:taking shortcuts or perhaps what we can more technically call heuristics.
John Ball:Some heuristics are constructive and save us a lot of time, but many
John Ball:need to be corrected and lead to getting mired in fallacious thinking,
John Ball:and sometimes to arguments and even fights if they're left unchallenged.
John Ball:We can't be expected to constantly remember that we have received
John Ball:programming throughout our lives that dictate our norms and values from
John Ball:family, from school, environment, government, peers, and media, and more.
John Ball:Transcending our programming is often viewed as an act of defiance
John Ball:by those who either prefer to accept their programming as correct or are
John Ball:too fearful or unaware to change it.
John Ball:What are the effects of influence them?
John Ball:Robert Cialdini talks about authority as being one of the key drivers of
John Ball:influence and even cites some quite terrifying examples of experiments that
John Ball:were done where people were prepared to deliver what they believed were
John Ball:fatal electric shocks in a staged simulation to a subject who was an
John Ball:actor because the person in a white coat conducting the experiment told them to.
John Ball:Not everyone did, but most did.
John Ball:And it was in large part down to a mix of Cialdini's weapons of influence,
John Ball:which also likely included a blend of consistency as they had agreed to
John Ball:take part and maybe consensus as well, because it seemed like everyone around
John Ball:was okay with this and it was normal.
John Ball:It is honestly amazing and just a little scary, just how much we will
John Ball:go along with consensus and orthodoxy just because everyone is okay with it
John Ball:and there doesn't seem to be sufficient reason or always to question it.
John Ball:This is one reason why cults teach adherence techniques
John Ball:like thought stopping.
John Ball:Because if you actually start to think rationally about what you're
John Ball:being told and question the voice of authority, you will probably end up
John Ball:coming to your senses and leaving.
John Ball:Potentially stirring up similar ideas in others.
John Ball:People are generally much quieter when they're not asking questions.
John Ball:We move on then to the art of the con, and most cons happen when some
John Ball:element of trust has been established and our reason to question what is
John Ball:happening or why is happening has.
John Ball:Turned off for a while, but we're regularly conned in other ways too.
John Ball:Media and politics mostly drive the narratives of popular discourse, past
John Ball:behavior, and our sense of who we are causes to act in ways that try to
John Ball:stay consistent with that identity.
John Ball:we follow the crowd because it seems like they must be right.
John Ball:If everyone else is doing it, we should too.
John Ball:Guess what?
John Ball:This is a long-winded way to get to my point.
John Ball:I apologize, but I feel like it was a necessary diversion.
John Ball:As podcasters and podcast guests, the vast majority of us follow the
John Ball:crowd and do what we see others doing.
John Ball:Sometimes we see guidance and if we are fortunate, Or thorough enough, we may
John Ball:find help that actually works for us.
John Ball:Any podcast coach worth their salt will tell you there is a shit ton of
John Ball:bad podcasting advice out there, and some is from seemingly successful
John Ball:people who we may think we can trust.
John Ball:Fantasy versus reality then.
John Ball:We often get taken in by the idea of things.
John Ball:It's a bit like getting a dog.
John Ball:The idea for many of us is a nice idea.
John Ball:Dogs are wonderful, but the reality is one of daily walking in all weather
John Ball:conditions, picking up poop, lots of poop.
John Ball:Vet bills, dog food, dog friendly hotels on your holidays, or dog sitters,
John Ball:chewed furniture, fur all over the place, and a very distinct dog smell
John Ball:that you never used to have at home.
John Ball:And did I mention the poop?
John Ball:That dog and its wellbeing are your responsibility, and if you are not a
John Ball:particularly responsible person already, you are probably not going to suddenly
John Ball:transform into one when the dog arrives.
John Ball:More likely the dog will have a less than optimal existence that it's
John Ball:ignorant owner thinks is just fine.
John Ball:So it's not just about us.
John Ball:Ignorance may be bliss for us, but it can be painful to others.
John Ball:Like my friend, let's call him Fred.
John Ball:Everyone else calls him Dan, but we'll call him Fred, who publishes his
John Ball:unedited podcast conversations with no intros, a poor quality microphone, an
John Ball:untreated room, and untreated audio.
John Ball:He's an interesting and very intelligent guy.
John Ball:I want to listen to his conversations, but sometimes, It takes so long to get to the
John Ball:point in his episodes that I give up or the sound is so bad that I find something
John Ball:with better quality to listen to.
John Ball:I can't really say he's ignorant of this.
John Ball:He knows and really he doesn't care enough to fix it.
John Ball:For me, that's like having the best information and delivering it in the most
John Ball:boring lecture style that you can manage.
John Ball:Only the most committed people will wade through it.
John Ball:What Dan is ignorant of is that podcasts also need to be entertaining
John Ball:and not like you've just accidentally landed in someone's zoom room.
John Ball:I've said many times before, but your enjoyment of a conversation does not
John Ball:equate to good content, and your use of controversial opinions or strong
John Ball:language doesn't necessarily make you edgy or compelling to listen to.
John Ball:Do you have any idea how many people out there call their
John Ball:podcast something like Real Talk?
John Ball:It's not the hook point that you think it is.
John Ball:Ignorance really is no excuse as a podcast guest.
John Ball:So ignorance will hurt you as a podcast guest too.
John Ball:If you don't keep a check on certain things like who's show you're going on,
John Ball:what's their style of interview, whether the conversation will be edifying,
John Ball:will the show get cut or promoted?
John Ball:Will you sink or shine?
John Ball:Do you give longer answers than are needed?
John Ball:Are you really listening to the questions being asked and staying
John Ball:aware and present with the interviewer?
John Ball:Have you curated your message in the right way for that audience?
John Ball:Do you know what the win is for you appearing on the show or for the host?
John Ball:There's so much to consider.
John Ball:One time I agreed to do a show where it seemed the primary product of
John Ball:the show was built around marijuana edibles and there were other guests
John Ball:that I didn't know about as well.
John Ball:The one just before me was a Donald Trump loving gun toting, woke hating, redneck.
John Ball:And let's just say I was in the virtual waiting room, wondering what
John Ball:the fuck I had got myself involved in.
John Ball:The interview ended up being great and a lot of fun, but when I look
John Ball:back, Fun did not translate into professionally useful, and I'm not
John Ball:in podcasting just to have fun.
John Ball:Looking back, agreeing to that interview for me was a mistake, although thankfully,
John Ball:not a very painful or costly one.
John Ball:The most significant cost was the time.
John Ball:I could have spent that time doing something to advance
John Ball:myself professionally.
John Ball:I needed to be more careful about what and who I was giving my time to and
John Ball:how it may affect my professional.
John Ball:I'd fallen into the trap of thinking that going on any slightly relevant
John Ball:podcast at all would give me a boost.
John Ball:If I look at my stats from such things, there have really only been two shows
John Ball:that I guested on that gave me major boosts to things like my email list,
John Ball:which is my main call to action.
John Ball:And I realize that if I did more of those shows and less random stuff, I
John Ball:would probably see much greater results.
John Ball:In fact, there's no probably about it.
John Ball:So do you just start or start right.
John Ball:This is a hard question to answer and there's a lot to be said for
John Ball:just diving in and getting started.
John Ball:I would have to go with the diplomatic answer, which is that it depends.
John Ball:Depends what you are looking to achieve by going on podcasts.
John Ball:If you are all about just having fun, carry on as you are, doesn't really
John Ball:apply if you're seeking to generate more business and build professional authority.
John Ball:Then you would do well to get more strategic and prepare yourself well.
John Ball:I'm not a big advocate of the expression how you do anything is how you do
John Ball:everything, but it is useful in terms of how we think about things.
John Ball:Again, a heuristic.
John Ball:So since we have been talking about heuristics running in general
John Ball:tendencies, if you do tend to half ass things, you're probably gonna do
John Ball:that with your podcast interviewing.
John Ball:What about the resistance?
John Ball:Well, it always surprises me how often people resist the idea that you
John Ball:need to work at podcasting and learn how to make a good show that has a
John Ball:specific objective for the audience.
John Ball:Just as much as being a podcast guest, people often think that
John Ball:they are more interesting than they really are, or that they know enough
John Ball:to be the expert, or they have the personality to be the next big thing.
John Ball:But there are things that work and things that just don't.
John Ball:I would hope that unless you are a very experienced speaker, you would
John Ball:get some help in coaching before doing something like a TED Talk.
John Ball:It would be see arrogance to think you didn't need it and would likely lead to
John Ball:regret when your less than great talk is splashed around the internet and top of
John Ball:search results when somebody Googles you.
John Ball:Your professional image needs to be curated, and I know some people
John Ball:don't like this idea, but it's the.
John Ball:If you want to be seen in a certain way by your audience, you need to
John Ball:do as much as you can to curate that image and act in accordance with it.
John Ball:Speak accordingly, and even dress accordingly.
John Ball:People are desperate to put you into a little box and identify you as one
John Ball:thing, even though you are many things.
John Ball:Your curated image should be authentic to who you are, but not to the point where
John Ball:you are presenting a confusing image of who you are and what you are about.
John Ball:Not looking, sounding, or feeling right is gonna hurt you professionally
John Ball:and may already be doing that.
John Ball:You're gonna get boxed and labeled whether you like it or not, whether it's right
John Ball:or wrong, and you should do your best to make sure you end up getting filed in the
John Ball:correct box in the mind of your listener.
John Ball:Now writing this episode has been a bit of a challenge for me.
John Ball:First, to keep it on track, which I only just about managed.
John Ball:I think.
John Ball:Secondly, the time commitment to actually do the writing and put
John Ball:the put it in together, and then Covid, which at the time of writing
John Ball:I was still trying to recover from.
John Ball:But I believe more than ever, the professional and expert podcast guesting
John Ball:requires a professional approach, and that perhaps a version of something
John Ball:like Toastmasters or public speaking programs is needed to help with this.
John Ball:I'm still noodling on what that might look like.
John Ball:In the meantime, please keep learning from the podcast pros
John Ball:who are my guests on the podcast.
John Ball:Amazing people like Bob Gentle, Lee Carter Jason Cercone on those shows, we discuss
John Ball:a lot of these issues around charisma, authenticity, and personal branding, and
John Ball:I'm sure you will find that valuable too.
John Ball:Now, various things have been getting in the way of my publication schedule
John Ball:as happens when you are doing a podcast and working in a full-time job.
John Ball:So I apologized for a lack of regularity.
John Ball:I've been doing my very best to try and get episodes out more regularly, so
John Ball:the schedule has been a little bit off.
John Ball:I am still promising four episodes a month.
John Ball:I will try to release them on Mondays as much as possible.
John Ball:My next show is gonna be an interview with Tim Reid, a very experienced
John Ball:podcaster from down and under.
John Ball:Who has an incredibly successful podcast and knows a thing or three about being
John Ball:on podcast, running a podcast, and building influence and persuasion.
John Ball:He has built up a big business through his show and had a lot of fun speaking
John Ball:to him, so make sure you don't miss that.
John Ball:We'll be continuing the seven deadly sins of podcasting with
John Ball:number four in a couple of weeks.
John Ball:So make sure you are subscribed to the show and we'll see
John Ball:you back again very soon.
John Ball:Where if you're going, whatever you're doing, have an amazing day.
