Episode 154

How to Connect With Anyone, Anywhere, Anytime | Simon Lancaster

Connecting with an audience isn't always easy, especially when you can neither see nor hear them. One way to do this is by making the right connections in their thoughts and that is where the magic begins.

My guest today is making a welcome return as a friend of the show to help us connect more. In fact, he's going to teach us how we can inspire, influence and energise anyone, anywhere, anytime. Are you ready to learn a new superpower?

I first encountered Simon Lancaster watching his TEDx Verona talk on YouTube where I was introduced to the world and art of rhetoric. As someone with a keen interest in influence and persuasion, it was like being given the keys to enter a magical land that I had never known existed before. I find rhetoric just as exciting today as I did then and one of the people I have learned the most from in this subject is my guest on this episode.

During the lockdowns, many of us were desperate for connection with our fellow humans and Simon felt that need very acutely too finding new ways to connect, keeping his speechwriting skills sharp and discovering a new platform as well as a new passionate hobby.

The show was a live launch for Simon's book Connect which has taken somewhat longer than anticipated to publish as a podcast episode but I think it is a great way to close off 2022 and welcome 2023. Simon's book recommendations in this episode were Sense by Russell Jones and How Confidence Works by Ian Robertson. I added both to my own personal reading list.

Make sure you learn Simon's 6 powerful speechmaking tools near the end of the episode and join us again in the new year when we will continue our series on the 7 Deadly Sins of Podcasting that you need to avoid and overcome to be a successful guest.

Enjoying the content? Join me for the Podfluencer Weekly newsletter on LinkedIn, Medium or Beehive to get articles and show updates every week(ish).

You are warmly invited to join other coaching & speaking professionals who are building their authority through podcasting in the Podfluencers Facebook Group and get your free download of How to build authority with podcasts

Did you enjoy the show? Did you learn anything new or useful? If you did, then the best way to show your appreciation is by sharing the show with your online network. Tag me and I'll give you a shout-out on an upcoming episode. Leave a review and I'll read it out on the show.

Of course, if you REALLY liked it, you're welcome to support the show financially too using this link Support the show (https://speakinginfluence.supercast.tech/)

Transcript
John Ball:

Can't connect, low energy, no influence.

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We've got to change the way we manage our energy.

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We've got to change the way we use metaphors.

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We've got to change the way we employ rhetorical devices.

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We can't get Podfluence carrying on like we have been.

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We absolutely need to learn and practice how to connect

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with anyone, anywhere, anytime.

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We need to transform our ability to energize.

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This will positively affect anyone we are intentionally connecting with, and

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it starts with learning from an expert.

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So today we are launching a brand new book that will skyrocket your ability to

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inspire, influence, and energize others.

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This is going to blow your mind and blow up this podcast much like

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the last time my guest was here.

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And in less than an hour you'll have a new superpower.

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This is just one example of one of the tools that I learned in this episode

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of Podfluence from my amazing guest, a friend of the show, Simon Lancaster.

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Simon very kindly invited me and you to be a part of his book launch for

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his new book Connect, which did come out earlier in the year and definitely

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available for you to go and get right now.

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We did this as a live online event.

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You may have to excuse some of the sound quality at certain points.

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Simon has a new book called Connect How to Inspire Influence and

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Energize Anyone Anywhere, anytime.

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If you Haven't Come Across Simon's work before, not only is Simon an excellent

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speech writer and public speaker,

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but he has written some amazing books, not just his latest book, but also

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an amazing book on speech writing.

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One of my favorites is his book Winning Minds.

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He explores the darker side of rhetorical language with you are not human.

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He's also become a little bit of a TikTok hit recently with some of his short form

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videos, which we talk about a little bit.

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This is Podfluence, the show for business coaches and speakers that

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helps you build professional authority.

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I invite you to enjoy this episode with my amazing guest, Simon Lancaster.

John Ball:

Welcome to the show, and today we are gonna be having

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a chat with Simon Lancaster.

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We're actually speaking on launch day of his new book Connect, which I have

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been very happily ploughing my way through and enjoying immensely, and

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I've read a lot of Simon's books, so I knew that this was gonna be good stuff

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and have very much been looking forward to chatting with Simon about this.

John Ball:

So let me officially welcome to the new Podfluence show, Simon Lancaster.

Simon Lancaster:

Hi Simon.

Simon Lancaster:

Really?

Simon Lancaster:

And it's great to be here, Johnny, on your new portmanteau show Indeed.

Simon Lancaster:

Podfluence

John Ball:

Loving it.

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And this is something I was thinking about whilst I was reading some of

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the earlier chapters of your book, because you actually talk about

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things like portmanteaus and where we combined two words together

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to mean something else thinking.

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That's exactly what I've done with the title of my show.

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That's great.

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We can we can bring it up.

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And you did so fantastic.

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, I would've if you.

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Simon, I like to kick off my show by asking people who for you is somebody

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who you particularly respect and have look up to for the influence that

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they've built up and how they've used it.

Simon Lancaster:

Let me tell you about the legend in my life.

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Who is Alan Johnson.

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Now, some of the people watching this will be familiar with Alan Johnson.

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For those who are not, let me just explain.

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He's a British politician, a labour politician.

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He grew up in absolute poverty.

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He was orphaned when he was 12 years old, left school with

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no qualifications, aged 15.

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He then became a postman.

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He works as a postman.

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Ended up leading the trade union that represents postal workers

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and communication workers.

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And then he went into politics when he was about 50.

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That's where I got to know him and I worked for him when I was in my

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mid twenties and in my mid twenties.

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I was still finding myself self.

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I was still trying to work out who I was, what I wanted to be.

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That awkward kind of post adolescence ag e.

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And I wasn't sure where I wanted to get to.

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Meeting Alan was incredible cuz he was someone who like me,

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grew up in poverty in London.

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I grew up in a one bed council flat in Paddington where

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there was me and my brother.

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Sharing a bedroom and my mom was sleeping in the front room.

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We were on free school meals, which is a badge that you have to wear

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when you are poor, but you used to in those days going going to school.

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And it was working with Alan that really made me believe that where you came from

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in life needn't determine where you.

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You could overcome all of that.

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You could leave all of that behind.

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There need be no barriers.

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And Alan, just the whole so much about his style, his gentle way, his very

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human way of connecting with people, his compassion, his incredible memory.

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He's always inspired me and he's he's a great friend now.

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But that of course won't have impinged on his impartiality at all when he

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was given the brilliant reference, which he did give to my book,

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. John Ball: Indeed, he did.

Simon Lancaster:

That's a great person to look up to as well, and certainly someone who,

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he does have a good reputation for being a great speech maker and even

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a writer, right, he's written some.

Simon Lancaster:

Yeah, he's a bestselling writer now.

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He sells his book Sells Millions.

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He's now he's written four volumes of biography and he's

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written two novels as well.

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So his next novel is coming out this September.

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So I'm looking forward to his launch party is the next one after

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my launch party that I'm going to

John Ball:

Well that's great.

John Ball:

It's interesting though.

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This is one of the things that perhaps did surprise me a little

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bit in the book and only one of the things, cause there were some others.

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That you have a background that, that you do, that you haven't

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come from a wealthy upper class or upper middle class background.

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And I think we tend to have this association that speech writers

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and people in the political world who would be created that do come

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from very well-to-do backgrounds.

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And it's certainly interesting to hear that, that you did not come from that.

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, but how did you end up going from where you were into the world

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of comms and speech writing?

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Well,

Simon Lancaster:

I was always absolutely fascinated with language,

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Johnny, when I was at school I always wanted to be a songwriter.

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And so that got me into writing songs.

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And when you are writing songs, you are thinking about things

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like the rhythm as language.

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Metaphors you are thinking about story, all of this kind of stuff.

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And I spent years plowing unsuccessfully trying to be a songwriter, writing

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literally a song a week and recording it on one of those little studios that

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you could buy back in the nineties.

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And I just got nowhere.

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I send them to heaps and heaps of record companies, but never.

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anywhere.

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And so then I kind of slid into into the civil service really and just worked my

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way up, got onto the Fast Stream program.

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Which is, it is weird if you come from a poor background like I did because

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there aren't many people from sort of background on the fast train, see, you

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did always feel a little bit insecure.

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You were always very conscious.

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Oh my god, you people are probably.

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Much cleverer than me, but in the end he realized no, they were just born lucky

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really.

Simon Lancaster:

They were born lucky . Mm-hmm.

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. And it's nothing to it.

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And that was the thing that Alan Johnson taught me working with because

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he still, still to this day, he's not got more than a couple of O levels,

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and he's one of the most intelligent people that I've ever worked with.

Simon Lancaster:

So who

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cares?

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It does maybe go to show us that sometimes the only limitations we

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really have are the ones that we put on ourselves from time to time at all.

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Quite often anyway, we live within our own limitations and expectations

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generally, and so it's always great when you see people that can step out of that.

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The last time we spoke, I think we did talk a little bit about how rhetoric seems

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to be something that is in the realms of the elites, the people who have the power

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tend to keep that information within their own circles, and it's not commonly taught.

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And so I think you were my very first introduction to rhetoric as something

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that I have gone most of my life without never having even heard of.

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And then when I heard I think it was your TEDx Verona talk

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that you were talking about.

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I was thinking this is something I really need to know about.

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If I want to be doing public speaking and presentations or really any

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kind of communication effectively, this is something I should have.

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This is something everyone should have.

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Why is it that you think it isn't so commonly taught?

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That

Simon Lancaster:

is changing?

Simon Lancaster:

I mean, more and more people are now getting involved with this and promoting

Simon Lancaster:

oracy on the curriculum, there's a large movement of academics now that have been

Simon Lancaster:

working with the Department for Education.

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The Department for Education has made changes to the curriculum in the last few

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years where there's cross-party consent.

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So there is some progress and there's all sorts of groups now that are now

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actively working to help people in.

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So literally, just before coming onto your podcast, Johnny, I gave a

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speech to a fantastic organization called The Patchwork Foundation.

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Now, the Patchwork Foundation has been set up with the explicit purpose

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to help people from underrepresented backgrounds get to the top politics.

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And so I just gave a speech to about 40 people.

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From there, all people between the age of 18 to 30 who are very bright but are not

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the sort of people that you see in the house Commons for all sorts of reasons.

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And so I think we are making progress more and more people

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about are talking about rhetoric.

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I think one of the problems is that people think of rhetoric as a dirty word.

Simon Lancaster:

Do you think that Johnny is that, you know, got negative connotations?

John Ball:

Not anymore, but.

John Ball:

Yeah, I, I think I used to hear that and I had a certain connotation of it.

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It wasn't necessarily a dirty word, but I don't think I really understood

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the scope of it as, as a word.

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It was more something like you, you understood it was a certain type of

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talking or Maybe on more of a common usage that people tend to use it as.

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It's just the style of language that you have.

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And so it tended to be used in association with like negative stuff that certain

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politicians or leaders were saying.

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And so, Now I don't have that.

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Now.

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I understand what rhetoric is and have been learning about it for the

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last several years, as much as I possibly can from people like yourself.

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So I'm happy to say that my, my opinion has changed it and I do see

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more people having awareness of it, but I'm still generally surprised

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at how few people that seems to be.

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I think it's gonna take quite a long time for that to really

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spread out and become a more common level of knowledge that people.

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. Simon Lancaster: Yeah.

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And, and hopefully we'll get there.

John Ball:

I think the more the, the more that we talk about it, every time I say, I have

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to say rhetoric, the art of persuasion, , you know, then people are like, oh, okay.

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Otherwise you do, you hear rhetoric is just like, oh, it's hot air,.

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It's,

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Guff.

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Yeah.

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So yeah, I'm happy to say that my, my feelings and

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opinions on that have changed.

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But it is super important that people have this because we probably use

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a lot of these things in our lives without even knowing that we do.

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And I know that, I had been involved with Toastmasters for a long time,

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and even in those organizations, public speaking groups, you'll hear

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a lot of people talking about the power of three and things like that.

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And three is a very common number.

John Ball:

It comes up a lot even in your books and things, and certainly appears

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in rhetoric a great amount of.

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But one of the things I really found interesting at the start of

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your book was talking about Brexit.

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Whether you loath him or hate him, Boris Johnson is a very good speaker,

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communicator using metaphors and similes and being able to pull people in with

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some of the things that he talks about.

John Ball:

And I know you talked about him before, in some of your other books.

John Ball:

The whole thing about cake and Brexit.

John Ball:

Can you just tell us a bit more about that for our

Simon Lancaster:

audience?

Simon Lancaster:

Yeah, so I run through the whole history of the language of Brexit.

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Basically just, Brexit is, what is it?

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Six, six letters, you know, Brexit.

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And yet there's so much within those six letters and the

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choice of those six letters.

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So now when we talk about.

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We all understand that Brexit is Brexit, but why did we call it Brexit?

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Brexit instantly put the focus on exit on us leaving.

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So that is the image straightaway that you are planting in people's minds.

Simon Lancaster:

Didn't have to call it that.

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We could have called it Breu, which would've been a combination

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between Britain and the EU.

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This is the debate on.

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The well brew is then a warm cup of tea.

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Sounds a little bit different.

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Yeah.

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Or why didn't we call it Brin?

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A vote on Brin?

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Which I'm speaking to you now from Wales.

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Brynn is a lovely hill.

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That's progress.

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But we called it Brexit.

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And Brexit Sounds like breakfast.

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, there's a, phonological connection between Brexit and breakfast,

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and we saw this all the time when people were speaking about Brexit.

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They'd say breakfast, and when people would then said about their

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breakfast, they'd say Brexit, and people kept muddling them up.

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And so they had, in our brains, in our subconscious, there's a little, there's a

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connection between Brexit and breakfast, just as there is now between Jeremy Hunt

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and another word, which I won't say on your program, but to the extent people

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are in it now, it's very hard to say, Jeremy Hunt without making a mistake.

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Although I've managed to do it so far, Johnny, maybe the

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third time I'll make the slip.

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So you, there was a phonological connection there between

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Brexit and breakfast.

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But Boris Johnson then actively exploited that and you could see

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he did throughout the campaign.

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So in the run up to the referendum, he literally, his last visit before the

Simon Lancaster:

vote, he went to a biscuit factory.

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He walks in there and he says, I've never seen so much dough in

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all my life, but the trouble is you've got control over your dough.

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We don't have control over our dough, 50 million pounds a day.

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We are sending to Brussels.

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We need to take back control.

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So he was establishing this connection in people's minds.

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Biscuits food and the European Union taking it away.

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Then he started talking about how we are gonna have our cake

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and eat it in the negotiations.

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No one understands European treaties.

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We all understand cake.

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Cake is lovely, and when we look at cake, we start salivating.

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A stomach starts producing enzymes.

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Then of course, in the 2019 election, he kept talking about his oven ready.

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, and again, he's making a connection.

Simon Lancaster:

He's making a connection in our minds between Brexit, which is a geopolitical

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treaty, is very, very complicated.

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No one really understands much about it.

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Even experts, they don't really understand the implications.

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Who can?

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It's way too complicated.

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But we all understand cake.

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And that's what he did.

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He made a connection.

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And so every, everyone forgets about that.

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Cause all they're looking at is the cake or the scones or the

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buns or whatever else he's doing.

Simon Lancaster:

Boris Johnson is a communications genius.

Simon Lancaster:

He, he

John Ball:

certainly has done very well with a lot of his communications.

John Ball:

I, I know he's certainly having some struggles at the moment, and I wonder if

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if that sort of magical way of speaking is really gonna dig him out of this hole.

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But he is certainly keeping him going for a little while longer, at least.

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But even with something like that we generally like to

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think that we are not so easily

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swayed along or influenced by things like that because they,

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they seem like they shouldn't have such power over us, but they do.

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Why is that, do you think?

Simon Lancaster:

Because we're human beings and we just have these

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instincts to save us to keep us alive.

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If we didn't salivate when we saw food and we didn't start thinking

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about food when we saw food.

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We would perish if we didn't have an appetite.

Simon Lancaster:

And so, these are vital things that we need, but essentially what Boris is

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doing there is he's hacking us, . You see, he's making a connection between

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something that we don't like, don't care about, don't understand, ie.

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Britain's relationship with the European Union, and he's connecting

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it with something we do like do care about and do understand.

Simon Lancaster:

So yes, we been, which is of course the other important thing about

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teaching rhetoric, not only so that we're able to lead ourselves, but

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also so we can understand when other people are misleading us or falsely

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directing us by an in instinct.

Simon Lancaster:

Yeah.

John Ball:

Do you think then having an awareness around the subject does Afford

John Ball:

some level of resistance potentially to these things being used on you?

Simon Lancaster:

Yeah, I do.

Simon Lancaster:

Well, I think so and you can certainly highlight it, but then

Simon Lancaster:

again, we are all human beings.

Simon Lancaster:

We all fall for I've been thinking about this stuff, writing about this stuff,

Simon Lancaster:

for like a couple of decades now, and yet still, still, and I swear this to

Simon Lancaster:

you, Johnny, if I see Boris Johnson

Simon Lancaster:

Making a jam, scone and putting cream on, and then jam.

Simon Lancaster:

I'm sorry, I'm hungry and I'm thinking about, I, I can't help,

Simon Lancaster:

I literally can't help that.

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You know?

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And this is where he's very, very clever because even people who

Simon Lancaster:

are not sympathetic to him, either personally or politically, which is me.

Simon Lancaster:

I'm not sympathetic to his politics or to his personality, but still, if he

Simon Lancaster:

shows me a cake, I'm gonna get hungry.

Simon Lancaster:

And if he tells me a funny joke as he frequently does,

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he's frequently very funny.

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He will make me laugh.

Simon Lancaster:

And he does that.

Simon Lancaster:

He does that, and he does that with a lot of people..

Simon Lancaster:

And that's why on a still think the Tories will be insane if they

Simon Lancaster:

let him go even after everything.

Simon Lancaster:

I think he's still the person who, for the conservatives is

Simon Lancaster:

most likely to beat Kier Starmer.

John Ball:

I think they still believe that as well, which is

John Ball:

why he is hanging on in there.

John Ball:

I was enjoying listening to the audio book today came through and I've been

John Ball:

listening to you on high speed today.

John Ball:

And, You speak fairly fast anyway, so listening to it on high speed.

John Ball:

I have to be careful with missing stuff, but you were talking about

John Ball:

the clown effect and and how that's had a, an impact on this.

John Ball:

Well, it's actually much more powerful than we think, and it's.

John Ball:

Devised is planned.

John Ball:

It's not spontaneous.

John Ball:

It's not who he is, it's a device more than anything else.

John Ball:

And it's an effective one

Simon Lancaster:

at that.

Simon Lancaster:

Well, I think probably he is a bit of a jerk.

Simon Lancaster:

And he probably is a bit scruffy, but you can see he just hams it up.

Simon Lancaster:

And this is a part of his character, a part of his personality that

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he sees is actually advantageous.

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He exploits it.

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But again, it's this thing about the ability to distract us from

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the real issue and by make us laugh and actually make us feel good.

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Cuz when we laugh, we, we do feel good.

Simon Lancaster:

And in the book I draw a comparison actually between Boris Johnson and

Simon Lancaster:

Zelensky, which is not necessarily a point of connection, which many

Simon Lancaster:

your listeners will appreciate.

Simon Lancaster:

But I do see that they're very much from the same, peas from the same pod

Simon Lancaster:

basically, that both of them rose to the top through appearances on satirical tv.

Simon Lancaster:

TV programs, They then all of a sudden actually became serious

Simon Lancaster:

politicians, but they won elections.

Simon Lancaster:

Both of them won elections with cries of, I'm very conscious your mother's

Simon Lancaster:

listening, Johnny, but with cries of and Eff the electorate , I'm,

Simon Lancaster:

I, you see, I'm really fighting hard not swearing this podcast

John Ball:

I was just, I, I would go for it.

John Ball:

My mom doesn't know where you live.

John Ball:

You'll be, Okay.

Simon Lancaster:

I think she's probably got the idea now.

John Ball:

Anyway, she has heard that word before.

John Ball:

E even from her youngest son.

John Ball:

To move on a little bit from Boris and political rhetoric, one of the things that

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surprised me about your book was there's quite a bit of personal development

John Ball:

stuff in there, and I'm someone who's worked in the personal development

John Ball:

area and professional development for a long time.

John Ball:

So I wasn't expecting it.

John Ball:

And it wasn't an unpleasant surprise or anything there, it

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was just a bit of a surprise.

John Ball:

But how did those sorts of things like visualization and breathing

John Ball:

exercises make it into the book?

John Ball:

What made you think that, that was important for us to be understanding

John Ball:

and utilizing with connection.

Simon Lancaster:

That I think they're just absolutely critical.

Simon Lancaster:

And they're things that I've always practiced, but they're things that I've

Simon Lancaster:

never really talked about them before and I've always focused on kind of the

Simon Lancaster:

speech writing aspect of what I do.

Simon Lancaster:

But the thing is that now more and more people really

Simon Lancaster:

need to know about this stuff.

Simon Lancaster:

And I think particularly post pandemic.

Simon Lancaster:

as people slowly everyone's moving at their same space, but slowly

Simon Lancaster:

getting into the real world.

Simon Lancaster:

And I can tell you that everyone has had struggles with this.

Simon Lancaster:

Even people you'd never imagine have had struggles with it.

Simon Lancaster:

And over the last few months, a couple of household name politicians and a

Simon Lancaster:

couple of CEOs that I've worked with for years who are big, big hitters

Simon Lancaster:

have been speaking to me about they're feeling nervous before a speech that

Simon Lancaster:

in the past just wouldn't have been.

Simon Lancaster:

So I'm like, well, I'll tell you what I do.

Simon Lancaster:

And these, this advice goes down very, very well.

Simon Lancaster:

And it's very, very simple.

Simon Lancaster:

But just, a lot of the time it's just about drowning the negative narrative that

Simon Lancaster:

many people have running in their mind.

Simon Lancaster:

and just literally not giving it airtime, not giving it airtime, and

Simon Lancaster:

just creating your positive narrative and keeping on coming back to that.

Simon Lancaster:

I just think it's essential.

Simon Lancaster:

I think people really need to know this stuff now, and I've written

Simon Lancaster:

this book much more for a general audience than my previous books,

Simon Lancaster:

because you've read all of them.

Simon Lancaster:

I can speak to you about them.

Simon Lancaster:

In turn.

Simon Lancaster:

Speech writing guide was for professional speakers.

Simon Lancaster:

Winning Minds was the PR experts and leaders, and then you are not human.

Simon Lancaster:

That was for a general audience, but it was taken a very particular

Simon Lancaster:

view on the dark side of rhetoric.

Simon Lancaster:

This one is really, if I've written this.

Simon Lancaster:

The, thinking very much of me when I was like in my mid twenties and like really

Simon Lancaster:

thinking, how do I make breakthrough now?

Simon Lancaster:

How do I establish myself?

Simon Lancaster:

And so I've.

Simon Lancaster:

This is how you do it.

Simon Lancaster:

But it's written with the benefit of 25 years experience working with

Simon Lancaster:

these top leaders and some of the things that I've learned and of course

Simon Lancaster:

that I've studied and read since.

Simon Lancaster:

And I think it's valuable stuff.

Simon Lancaster:

And it's funny cuz when I've been talking about the books people, it's

Simon Lancaster:

always the positive visualization stuff that they come back to.

Simon Lancaster:

I did a thing, I did launch event just in the local beautiful independent book shop

Simon Lancaster:

in the Brecken Beacons called Bookish.

Simon Lancaster:

And there were about 40 or 50 people there.

Simon Lancaster:

Some were friends, but not all of them were friends.

Simon Lancaster:

There were a few people who just bought tickets and had come along and they

Simon Lancaster:

were the ones who were coming up to me afterwards and saying, oh my God,

Simon Lancaster:

I still suffer from anxiety terribly.

Simon Lancaster:

The stuff you were saying about positive visualization so important and so

Simon Lancaster:

useful, and I think this is great that people are talking about this stuff now.

Simon Lancaster:

Cause I'll tell you what, when I was in my mid twenties and I suffered from

Simon Lancaster:

anxiety, used to get terrible shakes in meetings and all, terrible stuff.

Simon Lancaster:

I never told a soul about it.

Simon Lancaster:

I told my mum about it, I told my brother about it.

Simon Lancaster:

That was it, yeah, no, no one else.

Simon Lancaster:

It's great that people can have these convers.

Simon Lancaster:

Equally, I think there's a danger that in having these conversations, you then keep

Simon Lancaster:

having those conversations and people then judge you as being you are the anxious

Simon Lancaster:

bloke or your, do you know what I mean?

Simon Lancaster:

So it's.

Simon Lancaster:

It's still, it's torchmans territory.

Simon Lancaster:

Yeah.

John Ball:

It can be a bit like, if you start still, it's torturous territory.

John Ball:

Yeah.

John Ball:

Support group and stuff, then you, your whole focus becomes on that

John Ball:

and you might end up amplifying the issue rather than resolving it.

John Ball:

So, yeah, I think it's important to be aware of that It needs to get support.

John Ball:

You need a bit.

John Ball:

Absolutely.

John Ball:

I like to be solution focused.

John Ball:

That was one of the reasons I got into coaching in the

John Ball:

first place some years ago.

John Ball:

I feel it's very serendipitous that we are talking when we are because the, this is

John Ball:

also me launching my new podcast or the new iteration of my podcast, which is like

John Ball:

said, is called Podfluence, a portmanteau of Podcast and Influence, moving on

John Ball:

from Speaking influence much more to influence and in the world of podcasting

John Ball:

particularly, but, influence in general.

John Ball:

But a big part of that is connection, and that's something I've really

John Ball:

wanted to focus on with this, like how important it is for podcasters and

John Ball:

podcast guests to connect with each other and to connect with the audiences too.

John Ball:

And I think there's a lot in your book that helps that, not really

John Ball:

just for podcasters as well.

John Ball:

You talk about TikTok in the book and how we can learn things from into us a

John Ball:

specific lessons that we were able to learn from some successful TikTok ERs.

John Ball:

And I think that would be interesting to, to get into right now as

John Ball:

to what what sort of connect.

John Ball:

Areas or techniques or help we can get from people who

John Ball:

are doing this well already?

Simon Lancaster:

Yeah.

Simon Lancaster:

I mean, TikTok I consider myself amateur and a relative newcomer,

Simon Lancaster:

but I have to say I absolutely love it as a communication medium.

Simon Lancaster:

I think Twitter has just become so toxic.

Simon Lancaster:

Even smart people who are very capable of arguing are now scared to say stuff on

Simon Lancaster:

Twitter for fury, the fury of the masses.

Simon Lancaster:

It's become, as a forum for debate, it's.

Simon Lancaster:

Unstable.

Simon Lancaster:

You're bet better off going to the pub at 1130 in the evening and

Simon Lancaster:

going in there and saying, I love Margaret Thatcher, who's with me.

Simon Lancaster:

In Wales wont go down.

Simon Lancaster:

Well, just wait for the onslaught.

Simon Lancaster:

Whereas TikTok does seem very

Simon Lancaster:

positive.

Simon Lancaster:

Of course there are negative elements to it, generally it seems

Simon Lancaster:

to me that people are on there to make themselves better people.

Simon Lancaster:

And whether that's my eldest daughter going on there for beauty tips or

Simon Lancaster:

style advice or whatever, or other people going there and working out

Simon Lancaster:

to how to make a cupboard, and people are going on there for all sorts of

Simon Lancaster:

reasons, but it feels to me like a very.

Simon Lancaster:

Environment.

Simon Lancaster:

And so this is something that I got into as part of my kind of rhetoric for the

Simon Lancaster:

masses thing, which was the rallying cry in my TEDx Verona talk in 2016.

Simon Lancaster:

And so I thought this is a great way to connect with the next generation

Simon Lancaster:

and just give them really quick tips.

Simon Lancaster:

Free but do it in a TikTok style and it so it was my daughter, I

Simon Lancaster:

think, I dunno how much of this I put in the final draft of the book.

Simon Lancaster:

Actually.

Simon Lancaster:

A lot of it might have been out by Final Draft, but it was my daughter Yeah.

Simon Lancaster:

Who got me on TikTok.

Simon Lancaster:

. And she helped me, make my first few videos and she was literally coaching me.

Simon Lancaster:

She was like 12 at the time or something like, yeah.

Simon Lancaster:

But she was like, you've gotta be more energetic.

Simon Lancaster:

You've gotta be faster.

Simon Lancaster:

If you stop like this, it's gotta be less than a minute, dad.

Simon Lancaster:

If it goes over a minute, no one's gonna listen to you.

Simon Lancaster:

And so I, I was like, as someone who's always had the luxury, either given one

Simon Lancaster:

hour lectures or if even a whole day workshops, short speech for me as a TED

Simon Lancaster:

Talk where it's like 60 minutes and all of a sudden it was like, fucking hell.

Simon Lancaster:

I've gotta put this in a minute.

Simon Lancaster:

After , sorry, Johnny's mum, we got one in the end.

Simon Lancaster:

No, it was, I'm, I warn you.

Simon Lancaster:

No, but it was a great challenge.

Simon Lancaster:

So it was like, I'm gonna give you six rhetorical tricks in one minute.

Simon Lancaster:

Start the clock.

Simon Lancaster:

I'm gonna give you five persuasive hacks in one minute.

Simon Lancaster:

Start the clock.

Simon Lancaster:

And people loved it.

Simon Lancaster:

And whilst I started off doing this for, I suppose you'd say, a 16 to 24 demographic,

Simon Lancaster:

in fact, I found a lot of the people that were liking it on TikTok were people in

Simon Lancaster:

their thirties and forties that probably shouldn't have been on TikTok, and they

Simon Lancaster:

up, no, they're not thought like, well, I wonder whether there'd be a crossover and

Simon Lancaster:

I can use these videos that I've created TikTok on LinkedIn and the feedback on

Simon Lancaster:

LinkedIn as, as you would have seem,

Simon Lancaster:

it was phenomenal.

Simon Lancaster:

And so like the videos that I've done, these little one minute

Simon Lancaster:

bite size communication have been getting tremendous views.

Simon Lancaster:

So a lot of them have had almost 200,000 views on TikTok.

Simon Lancaster:

And then when I've shared them on LinkedIn, they've had 50,000 views.

Simon Lancaster:

And so they, it's great, great, great impact.

Simon Lancaster:

And it's challenged me.

Simon Lancaster:

I always love being challenged, that's why I like writing books and a new challenge.

Simon Lancaster:

How much can you say in a.

Simon Lancaster:

Brilliant.

Simon Lancaster:

Love it.

John Ball:

Think it's super important and to me it makes sense.

John Ball:

I think there's a very high demand for short form content right now.

John Ball:

and the nature of social media tends to be that we are scrolling through various

John Ball:

social media channels to find the content that we want or that we connect with.

John Ball:

And so stuff that stands out is gonna be super important.

John Ball:

And also stuff that doesn't slow down our us scrolling for too

John Ball:

long as well is probably even more helpful, like a five minute.

John Ball:

If it's really interesting, good.

John Ball:

Then yeah, people might take the time or longer, but 30 seconds to a minute.

John Ball:

Yeah, that's no big deal.

John Ball:

People can tune in for that and if they get some value from that as well.

John Ball:

Things like YouTube doing it Instagram are doing it.

John Ball:

TikTok of course but and that's why the other channels are doing it.

John Ball:

I guess probably even LinkedIn is gonna get in on this at some point a bit more

John Ball:

as well and make more space for it.

John Ball:

But yeah, it makes perfect sense to me that short form content is a great way to

John Ball:

introduce and connect with an audience.

Simon Lancaster:

Yeah.

Simon Lancaster:

One of the things that really fascinates me about it, Johnny, is that how it

Simon Lancaster:

works in that second way, particularly with TikTok, when you are just.

Simon Lancaster:

Swiping through and you know you do it so absentmindedly, you are certainly

Simon Lancaster:

not rationally analyzing anything.

Simon Lancaster:

You're just like, oh well I'd look at you.

Simon Lancaster:

And it's that thing that, I think you think about like with your drop

Simon Lancaster:

and your lighting and all of this.

Simon Lancaster:

So it's like, it's interesting.

Simon Lancaster:

I remember we spoke about this the last time that I was on and I need

Simon Lancaster:

to get as good as you on the backdrop and stuff like that too often, nor.

Simon Lancaster:

It's like really messy bookshelves and insight into the, the crazy

Simon Lancaster:

mind of a speech writer, I think.

Simon Lancaster:

And it, and if this is what you can see seriously, you wanna see the mess on the

Simon Lancaster:

floor around me, I'm not gonna show you.

John Ball:

It's okay.

John Ball:

We don't need the full tour of of the floor and everything's Simon.

John Ball:

But but yeah, books on the shelf behind you is generally is considered

John Ball:

a good idea when you're doing video stuff anyway, especially if

John Ball:

you're doing educational content.

John Ball:

You know, that association.

John Ball:

That collection is there straight away.

John Ball:

It's like, oh, there's books.

John Ball:

This is some to something educational or informative or someone who has

John Ball:

some intelligence that that connection definitely is there for people,

John Ball:

especially if you are an author.

John Ball:

If you are writer, it makes sense that you would at least have

John Ball:

some books in your background.

John Ball:

And I think once I published mine I'm like, well, change my background a little

John Ball:

bit as well to match that a bit more.

Simon Lancaster:

Yeah.

Simon Lancaster:

But I think you can get.

Simon Lancaster:

Smartronix.

Simon Lancaster:

I'm not sure with this, it's like I'm selling a book now.

Simon Lancaster:

It's obvious I'm selling a book.

Simon Lancaster:

There's a guy in Sweden that you should check out, and I think

Simon Lancaster:

my friend Ricard might be in the audience right now, also in Sweden.

Simon Lancaster:

If so, hi Ricard.

Simon Lancaster:

And the guy I'm gonna talk about in Sweden is David JP Phillips.

Simon Lancaster:

Check him out Johnny, what he's doing on.

John Ball:

I have, I've heard the name before.

Simon Lancaster:

Yeah.

Simon Lancaster:

So on TikTok, he is smashing it.

Simon Lancaster:

He's absolutely smashing it.

Simon Lancaster:

He's got something like 3 million followers and his, some of his

Simon Lancaster:

videos of 15 million views and it's really great little communication.

Simon Lancaster:

But what he does with his background, and there was one TikTok where he talks.

Simon Lancaster:

He was talking about, you'll see I've got the lighting at this level and

Simon Lancaster:

that induces in you this emotion.

Simon Lancaster:

The color is this and that induces this emotion.

Simon Lancaster:

The background music is that and that induces this.

Simon Lancaster:

So he's like really hitting all of the senses and in actual facts there, there

Simon Lancaster:

is cuz you like book recommendations.

Simon Lancaster:

On your show, don't you let me recommend this book to you and all your listeners.

Simon Lancaster:

Don't.

Simon Lancaster:

I should recommend it after my own book actually.

Simon Lancaster:

You need to get me first.

Simon Lancaster:

This request.

Simon Lancaster:

Now definitely have inspire influence, energize anyone anywhere, anytime.

Simon Lancaster:

But after you've ordered that, then get this one, which is Sense by Russell Jones.

Simon Lancaster:

Unlock your senses and improve your life.

Simon Lancaster:

And he writes in, this guy is a sensory designer and he works for all sorts of big

Simon Lancaster:

businesses, like the coffee stores and stuff like that, where they think to

Simon Lancaster:

every detail, what color do we need?

Simon Lancaster:

What music do we need playing and he unlocks in here the science of

Simon Lancaster:

senses in a way that will make anyone who's interested in the devious

Simon Lancaster:

art of persuasion and influence.

Simon Lancaster:

It'll slowly, I'll get your mouth watering almost as much as boris's cake

John Ball:

That, that sounds very exciting to me, and I'm.

John Ball:

I'm a big fan of that level of attention to detail as well, so

John Ball:

I know that I will enjoy that and I'm sure my, my audience will

John Ball:

appreciate that kind of thing as well.

John Ball:

It's like there, there's a level of just get started and do it, and then there's

John Ball:

a level of, well, let's master this and let's really be intentional about it.

John Ball:

If at let's make let's create the right atmosphere for learning, for sharing,

John Ball:

for storytelling, whatever, tho those sorts of things, like atmosphere is so

John Ball:

important when it comes to connection.

John Ball:

even without all of that, what are some of the things we can do on

John Ball:

a more personal level to create

John Ball:

that, do you think?

Simon Lancaster:

To create connection with the, just with people when we meet them.

Simon Lancaster:

Yeah.

John Ball:

To create that, yeah.

John Ball:

That sensory atmosphere.

John Ball:

To change mood perhaps, or to put people into a certain state.

Simon Lancaster:

Well, I think that the most important one for me is how we feel.

Simon Lancaster:

If we feel Good, other people are gonna feel good if we feel excited.

Simon Lancaster:

Other people are gonna feel excited.

Simon Lancaster:

If we feel anxious, other people are gonna feel anxious.

Simon Lancaster:

So I think that and this is why I have the whole mind body thing that

Simon Lancaster:

mind Body connection chair chapter comes before the me we connecting

Simon Lancaster:

the personal with the universal.

Simon Lancaster:

Cuz I think it's so important that you are in a good place

Simon Lancaster:

before you go and speak to other.

Simon Lancaster:

Whether that's going to a social function or you are doing a big conference speech

Simon Lancaster:

or your chair in your team meeting, just taking time to check in and get

Simon Lancaster:

your own mind in the right space, reminding yourself of your purpose.

Simon Lancaster:

Why are you here?

Simon Lancaster:

What do you actually, what are the feelings you want to create in people?

Simon Lancaster:

And then if you're like, well, I need to excite them, then you

Simon Lancaster:

need to be excited to yourself.

Simon Lancaster:

You're not gonna excite them if you go in there and you've only

Simon Lancaster:

had three hours sleep or whatever.

John Ball:

Yeah.

John Ball:

. So for me it's kind of the, the things that are maybe a bit more

John Ball:

contextual and and so things like metaphor, which you talk a lot about

John Ball:

to me sort of set the scene there the context of what things come into you.

John Ball:

There's that setting the tone or you talk about things like we talked about covid

John Ball:

as coming in waves, or we talk about.

John Ball:

The connections that we make, like going on a journey, for example, or the food

John Ball:

connections those sorts of metaphors and similes that we use with that.

John Ball:

How conscious, we talked about detail of sensory detail before with the other

John Ball:

book, but, How conscious can we be of that with the sorts of metaphors we use

John Ball:

when we are looking to set a particular emotional scene in a story or a speech?

Simon Lancaster:

Yeah.

Simon Lancaster:

Well, look I think just going back to the Covid point generally, because I think the

Simon Lancaster:

thing is, the important starting point is just that we think through connections,

Simon Lancaster:

you know, connections is the way that we.

Simon Lancaster:

So it's not just a rhetorical trick, it's like an appreciation of the way

Simon Lancaster:

our brain works that a new topic, something novel, complex, ambiguous,

Simon Lancaster:

is introduced to us and then instantly the way we make sense of it is to make

Simon Lancaster:

a connection with something else, which is what we do when we meet people.

Simon Lancaster:

We are like, oh, you are like this person.

Simon Lancaster:

Your name is Johnny Ball.

Simon Lancaster:

So you are gonna be fun because I grew up watching Johnny Ball on tv.

Simon Lancaster:

So your name's great.

Simon Lancaster:

You look very smiling.

Simon Lancaster:

Yeah,

John Ball:

but I'm terrible at maths so

John Ball:

, Simon Lancaster: I, I'll forgive

John Ball:

Likewise with issues, so you get Coronavirus comes along,

John Ball:

scientists all around the world are trying to make sense of it.

John Ball:

And the way they make sense is through making Connections.

John Ball:

And some of those scientists are saying, this is like Spanish flu shit.

John Ball:

This is gonna be serious.

John Ball:

It could wipe out millions of people unless we take it seriously.

John Ball:

Other people in Asian countries more familiar with sars are saying,

John Ball:

this is like, SARS means we need to invoke all of those procedures

John Ball:

that we had in place on sars.

John Ball:

Then you've got people in Whitehall who are like, ah, it's like seasonal flu.

John Ball:

It's just like seasonal flu.

John Ball:

It's a variation on that.

John Ball:

So they're like, it's mild and moderate.

John Ball:

Those connections that people were then making.

John Ball:

Scientists are just as liable to get things wrong in this way by starting

John Ball:

with this connection, which is then now hypothesis, which then proves

John Ball:

to be wrong, as the rest of us.

John Ball:

And so that's the thing, that it's an awareness that this is

John Ball:

actually the way the mind works.

John Ball:

And if you get locked onto the wrong connection, then yeah the consequences

John Ball:

can be fatal for a country or for yourself with people like, and the judgment some

John Ball:

people made about vaccines where people like, oh, but this is like, You know how

John Ball:

they lied to us about Iraq or they lied to us about the financial crisis, or they

John Ball:

lied to us about this, or they lied about that and they're, therefore they're making

John Ball:

connections in their own mind, which then lead them not to have a vaccine.

John Ball:

I got, my wife's maiden name is Jenner.

John Ball:

So for us, there was never any question we were having the vaccine

John Ball:

in our household cuz it was like, well, we see vaccines as being things

John Ball:

that saved the whole of humanity.

John Ball:

We've got a connection.

John Ball:

And so it's really just, it's that awareness.

John Ball:

This is how we think and a lot of thoughts works through connections

John Ball:

cuz that's the way our brain works and we should be conscious of that when

John Ball:

we are communicating as well, that often think about making connections.

John Ball:

It's the most effective way to get across a powerful message.

John Ball:

Yeah, I mean our brains are essentially pattern seeking machines.

John Ball:

Really.

John Ball:

We're always looking for patterns, always looking for connections,

John Ball:

but they're not always never, don't necessarily find the right ones the most

John Ball:

supportive or positive ones for sure.

John Ball:

And I think one of the things you talked about in the book was about having your

John Ball:

kind of your own metaphors, like for yourself or for your business as well,

John Ball:

ones that relate particularly to you.

John Ball:

Yeah.

John Ball:

Can you talk a bit more about that?

Simon Lancaster:

Yeah, absolutely.

Simon Lancaster:

I mean, so many businesses get lost, particularly bigger businesses get

Simon Lancaster:

lost in mixed metaphors where they're fighting this and they're killing

Simon Lancaster:

that and they're planting seeds and they're playing in different fields

Simon Lancaster:

and they're driving change and they have no clear image of what it is

Simon Lancaster:

that they're trying to communicate.

Simon Lancaster:

You wanna sit down, and I do this with clients, we'll sit down and literally

Simon Lancaster:

we'll just workshop it and we'll consider different types of metaphors

Simon Lancaster:

and then we'll land at the one which we think is gonna have the biggest impact.

Simon Lancaster:

So one of the ones, I mean, I used to think about my business as that

Simon Lancaster:

I was basically a pirate and I was getting all of this treasure from

Simon Lancaster:

ancient rhetoric and neuroscience.

Simon Lancaster:

and I was presenting nuggets of information, so I had a clear vision

Simon Lancaster:

that I was like, you know, Jack Sparrow or something like that.

Simon Lancaster:

And that image like worked for me.

Simon Lancaster:

And I would suggest that, anyone listening should look to do the same.

Simon Lancaster:

So, I mean, it, like the book Connect, this is about giving you superpowers.

Simon Lancaster:

This is basically making you into a superhero, this book, and so it's

Simon Lancaster:

gonna, it's full of super powerful devices if you want the wow, order it,

Simon Lancaster:

and of course the cover of it is very much like the marvel comic superhero.

Simon Lancaster:

Wow.

Simon Lancaster:

Pow.

Simon Lancaster:

But which also fits in with the idea of electricity, which runs through the book.

Simon Lancaster:

So I've thought about the metaphor in that and I try to make sure that all of

Simon Lancaster:

my comms is sticking to that metaphor in as far as it can, you know, you can't

Simon Lancaster:

be too anal about this if you, there will always be some mixed metaphors,

Simon Lancaster:

but I know what I'm trying to say.

Simon Lancaster:

Whether I succeed in saying it is another matter.

John Ball:

Hey, I think you do pretty good job, Simon.

John Ball:

Wh what I maybe explains for me why I'm so interested in the world of

John Ball:

influence and persuasion, because my biggest ambition when I was a

John Ball:

kid was completely unrealistic and impossible of wanting to be a superhero.

John Ball:

Like I loved comic books.

John Ball:

I wanted to be, I think initially Superman, but then it was more Spider-Man

John Ball:

and I don't have that desire anymore.

John Ball:

You know, haven't least, I thought, although the idea of being able to

John Ball:

fly, although is still very appealing, but you know, I live in reality.

John Ball:

But I do feel that these sorts of things do give you a

John Ball:

certain amount of superpowers.

John Ball:

I, I feel even like, , even in the world of coaching, I've studied NLP and

John Ball:

personal development and things like that.

John Ball:

Like some of it's great, some of it maybe not as much but a lot of it's very useful

John Ball:

and and I always continue to learn stuff and I do think it gives you special powers

John Ball:

to be able to change people's thinking, powers to be able to change an atmosphere

John Ball:

or a mood or to be able to influence individuals or groups or even governments.

John Ball:

I've talked about that on the show before, but, This really is a

John Ball:

superpower being able to intentionally influence and persuade people.

Simon Lancaster:

Yeah, and think not just let's be clear as well,

Simon Lancaster:

it's not just about influencing and persuading other people.

Simon Lancaster:

You can use this to influence and persuade yourself.

Simon Lancaster:

So I start thinking, I'm giving people superpowers that makes me

Simon Lancaster:

really excited about what I'm doing, and so you just use that language

Simon Lancaster:

and it frames it a different way.

Simon Lancaster:

And this is stuff actively that I've used throughout my life, so I say in

Simon Lancaster:

the book about how Paul McKenna tapes really helps me find my confidence

Simon Lancaster:

when I was in my mid twenties.

Simon Lancaster:

When I gave up smoking, I used to be a proper chain smoker.

Simon Lancaster:

I was not a social smoker.

Simon Lancaster:

I was a real smoker.

Simon Lancaster:

I was like 40 to 60 cigarettes a day.

Simon Lancaster:

And the way that I got off was the Alan Carr, the easy way to give up smoking.

Simon Lancaster:

Of course, he, him.

John Ball:

Me too.

John Ball:

Yeah, me too.

Simon Lancaster:

Genius.

Simon Lancaster:

Genius.

Simon Lancaster:

I've got, I've been in a bad mood ever since, but never.

Simon Lancaster:

It's, it's and of course Paul McKenna and Allen Carr, they're both NLPs now.

Simon Lancaster:

I've never studied N L P but I've read a few books, I've read, I've

Simon Lancaster:

literally, I think I've got N l P for Dummies somewhere down here.

Simon Lancaster:

But so I get the kind of, I get the idea.

Simon Lancaster:

But I think that's a really important point this, and particularly

Simon Lancaster:

for, I know a number of people that listen to your podcast are

Simon Lancaster:

people who work for themselves.

Simon Lancaster:

And so it's actually making sure that the way you communicate with

Simon Lancaster:

yourself is effective as well.

Simon Lancaster:

And particularly post covid.

Simon Lancaster:

I think we all need to make sure that we're given ourselves a boost

Simon Lancaster:

and keeping ourselves excited and inspired about what we do.

John Ball:

Yeah.

John Ball:

And that is one of the hardest things to do.

John Ball:

And I do feel, having been a coach for such a long time, one of the things

John Ball:

that I feel is most important is, Energy state that you are in on each day.

John Ball:

Like if you are in a really bad, energetic way, and I don't mean this in any kind

John Ball:

of spiritual woowoo where I mean it more than says like you would understand,

John Ball:

if your emotions are really down, if you're feeling really low, you do tend

John Ball:

to find that that affects your experience and often even your results as well.

John Ball:

And yet when you feel great, when you feel on top of things great things happen.

John Ball:

I think it was.

John Ball:

I'm gonna have struggle to, but the luck factor, Dr.

John Ball:

Richard Wiseman, who was talking about what luck is about and how essentially

John Ball:

the experiments that he performed pretty conclusively showed that good

John Ball:

luck or bad luck really depended on whether you believed you were lucky or

John Ball:

whether you believed you were unlucky.

John Ball:

It really was that sort of your state of expectation would determine the

John Ball:

kind of action you'd take and therefore the kind of results that you'd see.

John Ball:

And lucky people were more likely to go for it.

John Ball:

And unlucky people were far less likely to go for it.

John Ball:

More fearful.

John Ball:

And I think this applies not just to luck, but to so many things in our life.

John Ball:

It's like if, if your energy is in a bad place, not only is that

John Ball:

affecting you, it's also affecting everyone you come into contact with.

Simon Lancaster:

Yeah.

Simon Lancaster:

Well, absolutely.

Simon Lancaster:

The book that I've read recently that I found really inspiring that

Simon Lancaster:

I did draw on actually and cited in Connect, is the book called Confidence

Simon Lancaster:

by the Neuroscientist Ian Robertson.

Simon Lancaster:

And Ian very generously gave me a lovely quote which is on the front

Simon Lancaster:

page of connect, but that is stuffed with advice along those kinds of

Simon Lancaster:

lines about, how you've gotta sort out your internal narrative basically.

Simon Lancaster:

And he's not, sometimes I think, some people in the area

Simon Lancaster:

that NLP can be a little bit.

Simon Lancaster:

The, this guy's a neuroscienctist here and with you, and he re I mean, he

Simon Lancaster:

knows it, he really knows his onions and you read the book and he tells

Simon Lancaster:

it in a very relatable way, but all very much backed up with science.

Simon Lancaster:

Yeah.

John Ball:

I love that, that's something I haven't come across.

John Ball:

And I will check out that book and sounds great.

John Ball:

One thing I do want to get to, I think it's great.

John Ball:

We have some really interesting stuff that we've been talking about.

John Ball:

Something that people actually take away on a very practical basis.

John Ball:

Hopefully they're already thinking about this force, how

John Ball:

they're using those as well.

John Ball:

But you do talk in the book about six specific things that you can

John Ball:

do for a more powerful speech.

John Ball:

I wonder if you can share some of those things with us now?

Simon Lancaster:

Are these my six rhetorical devices?

Simon Lancaster:

Johnny?

Simon Lancaster:

Yes.

Simon Lancaster:

Fabulous.

Simon Lancaster:

I've just, cause I, I have a few six step structures.

Simon Lancaster:

I just wanted to.

Simon Lancaster:

Amongst my, cuz it fits so beautifully in 60 seconds, but yeah.

Simon Lancaster:

Okay, here we go.

Simon Lancaster:

See if I can do it in 60 seconds for you.

Simon Lancaster:

So start off one re breathless sentences, profits Down Markets

Simon Lancaster:

internal competitors on the move.

Simon Lancaster:

Sounds urgent like your hyperventilating two.

Simon Lancaster:

Three repetitive sentences where you repeat the opening clause.

Simon Lancaster:

We've gotta change the way we think as a business.

Simon Lancaster:

We've gotta change the way we market ourselves as a business.

Simon Lancaster:

We've gotta change the way that we interact with our customers as a business.

Simon Lancaster:

Then free contrasting sentences where it sounds like we're weighing something up.

Simon Lancaster:

So, we can't maintain the status quote.

Simon Lancaster:

We need to absolutely transform.

Simon Lancaster:

And this begins not just with people in the sales force,

Simon Lancaster:

affects us on the board as well.

Simon Lancaster:

And that is why today I'm said instead of doing things like we used

Simon Lancaster:

to do, we must move to the future.

Simon Lancaster:

And then you have a metaphor.

Simon Lancaster:

The metaphor plants an image in people's minds.

Simon Lancaster:

So you're like, today we are launch.

Simon Lancaster:

A new business that is gonna go into the stratosphere in

Simon Lancaster:

it, then you have exaggeration.

Simon Lancaster:

That's step five, and it's gonna blow all your minds.

Simon Lancaster:

It's gonna be absolutely incredible.

Simon Lancaster:

No one's ever seen a business like this in the history of business.

Simon Lancaster:

And then you end with rhyme because rhyme, sublime.

Simon Lancaster:

And this will ensure that we thrive, not just survive.

Simon Lancaster:

and so these are six super powerful rhetorical devices.

Simon Lancaster:

Boom.

Simon Lancaster:

You can attach it to any issue at any point and improvise

Simon Lancaster:

a super powerful speech.

Simon Lancaster:

Even the most ludicrous arguments in the world can be made sound quite

Simon Lancaster:

compelling by deploying that structure.

Simon Lancaster:

Might be quite fun actually, if someone in the audience wants to come in and suggest

Simon Lancaster:

a or you, Johnny, anyone, if anyone wants to suggest a topic and I'll riff a.

Simon Lancaster:

About using those techniques on the fly.

Simon Lancaster:

If I can, I should bear it.

Simon Lancaster:

Just say in my defense, if it's a bit shit, then it is the end of very

Simon Lancaster:

long day but I'll personally do more

John Ball:

best we'll be as kind to you as possible one that there are a few

John Ball:

people in the in the audience who can use the chat box if they're not aware.

John Ball:

Cecile, who is joining us from Switzerland, gives you

John Ball:

the topic of water sewage.

Simon Lancaster:

Water sewage.

Simon Lancaster:

Can I just say, Cecile is an amazing woman and you absolutely

Simon Lancaster:

need to check out her TEDx talk.

Simon Lancaster:

She is super, super in inspiring.

Simon Lancaster:

But really Cecile, you, is that the best you can come up with?

Simon Lancaster:

But what on earth got you to say.

Simon Lancaster:

So, okay.

John Ball:

Alright, you have another topic as well to choose from.

John Ball:

Isra.

John Ball:

Isra suggests banning school uniforms as a topic.

Simon Lancaster:

No, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stick with the first, my, my mind.

Simon Lancaster:

I, it's, it it is rocking now.

Simon Lancaster:

But do we have to look at sewage this way?

Simon Lancaster:

Do we have to always see the negative side of things?

Simon Lancaster:

Do we have to dwell on the things we don't like about everything instead of

Simon Lancaster:

always looking at the worst of something.

Simon Lancaster:

Instead, we should look at the best not being hung up by the challenges,

Simon Lancaster:

instead looking for the opportunities.

Simon Lancaster:

And whilst of course there are toxins in sewage, At the same time,

Simon Lancaster:

there is plenty of good to be had.

Simon Lancaster:

Now, I happen to know that at the bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, they

Simon Lancaster:

are developing technologies right now where you can instantly purify the most

Simon Lancaster:

putrid sewage water, and this is the golden goose that will change everything

Simon Lancaster:

about the way that we see sewage.

Simon Lancaster:

When.

Simon Lancaster:

Instantly, all of us will just be able to take water out of the river

Simon Lancaster:

and just drop a little tablet in and instantly we'll be able to drink from.

Simon Lancaster:

And this is gonna be amazing.

Simon Lancaster:

It's absolutely gonna transform the world.

Simon Lancaster:

And so I'm gonna close by saying, and I hope you don't think I'm a bit of a.

Simon Lancaster:

I'm gonna call on all your viewers to start drinking shit.

John Ball:

I think you did very well there, Simon.

John Ball:

And that was excellent.

John Ball:

Very entertaining too.

John Ball:

So, those are the six principles, the six rhetorical devices that

John Ball:

Simon saw, that inaction that you could practice and do for yourself.

John Ball:

And one of the things you said in the book, I think is

John Ball:

really important with this.

John Ball:

You say, the more you use this stuff, the more it becomes part of who you are.

John Ball:

And I think, I think for anyone who wants to be a good communicator, whether

John Ball:

that's public speaking, podcasting videos, TikTok, whatever, We need to be

John Ball:

a, we need to be intentional about it.

John Ball:

We need to be committed to the art of doing this and to doing it well and

John Ball:

aim to make these things part of who you are by practice and repetition.

John Ball:

So I'm fully behind your message there to do that and make it part of who we are.

Simon Lancaster:

Yeah, absolutely.

Simon Lancaster:

And it's one of the things that I did in lockdown actually, that

Simon Lancaster:

when I was just trying to make.

Simon Lancaster:

I was keeping my speech writing capacity, Tim, like when it

Simon Lancaster:

was quiet for commissions.

Simon Lancaster:

It's always quiet for speech writing in summer.

Simon Lancaster:

Basically I do probably 80% of my work from October through to March.

Simon Lancaster:

Literally about 80% of my years working those five months rest

Simon Lancaster:

of the year is quite quiet.

Simon Lancaster:

That's when all the conferences take place, all the big conferences take place.

Simon Lancaster:

And so to keep my brain active, literally every morning I

Simon Lancaster:

would just walk up the hill.

Simon Lancaster:

I live in the Breckon Beacons gorgeous part of Wales, and I would just

Simon Lancaster:

walk up the hill with my dog and I would improvise a speech using the

Simon Lancaster:

six steps that I just did for you on whatever the top news story was.

Simon Lancaster:

And I did that every day, like for a couple of weeks, and then uploaded

Simon Lancaster:

it to TikTok and it was great.

Simon Lancaster:

Just a good way to keep a brain muscle working.

Simon Lancaster:

Just for fun.

Simon Lancaster:

Not being paid for it, but just making sure that I maintain my faculties.

John Ball:

Simon in the book, you talk at the end about about how

John Ball:

you discovered a love for football particularly, and and I was thinking,

John Ball:

I was hearing football is not my thing and I know that you were saying it

John Ball:

wasn't yours either and it hadn't been.

John Ball:

Something you interested, like you'd glaze over.

John Ball:

I was like, yeah, that's me.

John Ball:

I'm gonna kind of glaze over when we talk about football kind.

John Ball:

, but I think some of that connects in with why you wrote this book

John Ball:

or why you write about this topic.

John Ball:

And so I'd love you to share a little bit about.

John Ball:

We were, you are newly discovered love of football.

Simon Lancaster:

I mean, it's crazy, I think as many writers

Simon Lancaster:

are, I'm quite happy on my own.

Simon Lancaster:

So first lockdown I was ever so happy, I loved it.

Simon Lancaster:

Just so with my family, it was really, really nice.

Simon Lancaster:

I wasn't working, I wasn't flying all over the place.

Simon Lancaster:

It was really, really cool.

Simon Lancaster:

And then, The second lockdown.

Simon Lancaster:

I, I was like, I was beginning to get very, very hungry for just

Simon Lancaster:

companionship and connection, real connection with people.

Simon Lancaster:

I was really, really missing it with friends, but also that feel of just being

Simon Lancaster:

with large, large numbers of people.

Simon Lancaster:

I grew up in the absolute Center of London.

Simon Lancaster:

I grew up in Paddington.

Simon Lancaster:

We'd walk to Oxford Street, we were used to really being in really packed areas.

Simon Lancaster:

Look, my God, I just missed it.

Simon Lancaster:

I missed it so much.

Simon Lancaster:

And now I took my daughters to, my eldest daughter is in the local football team.

Simon Lancaster:

She's a great footballer.

Simon Lancaster:

She's amazing.

Simon Lancaster:

She's she's a goalie, but she can play in any position more or less.

Simon Lancaster:

And so I'd taken her before to see Brentford play and.

Simon Lancaster:

Then the first match we had gone when they were just in the championship,

Simon Lancaster:

when they were in like the lower league and then they got promoted to the

Simon Lancaster:

Premiership and we watched on TV their first game of the season against Arsenal

Simon Lancaster:

and they were in a brand new stadium and everyone started singing, Hey Jude,

Simon Lancaster:

which is a song that is meaningful to me.

Simon Lancaster:

For so many reasons.

Simon Lancaster:

It was number one when my eldest brother was born.

Simon Lancaster:

And see, this book is dedicated to my eldest brother, who's been an inspiration.

Simon Lancaster:

He's energized me throughout his life.

Simon Lancaster:

You should see his TikTok channel where he's roller skating

Simon Lancaster:

into hip hop all of the time.

Simon Lancaster:

He's, I mean, he's grum.

Simon Lancaster:

He's absolutely great.

Simon Lancaster:

So it was number one when he was born, when nine 11 happened.

Simon Lancaster:

I was the grand Hotel in Brighton where, cause it was t u c and Blair had been

Simon Lancaster:

given a speech that day and that I was there with Alan Johnson actually.

Simon Lancaster:

And that evening we were all in the bar and I got on the piano as I always do.

Simon Lancaster:

You know, whenever there's a piano, I'll always hijack it.

Simon Lancaster:

and I remember that night so well that, I played, Hey Jude, and you

Simon Lancaster:

had like heaps people, like literally a hundred people singing along.

Simon Lancaster:

And I remember watching that Brentford Arsenal game and seeing

Simon Lancaster:

everyone singing, Hey Jude.

Simon Lancaster:

And literally I had tears down my running down my cheeks and I was just like,

Simon Lancaster:

oh my God, I need to, I want to go, I want to be at the next Brentford games.

Simon Lancaster:

And so we've gone to a heap of games this season and there is something so

Simon Lancaster:

Phenomenal about after all of the shit of Covid being with 35,000 human beings.

Simon Lancaster:

and you are all singing the same song and you're all wearing the same colors and

Simon Lancaster:

you're all wanting the same thing and none of you are looking at your bloody phones.

Simon Lancaster:

You're focused on what's going on on the pitch.

Simon Lancaster:

I still can look at it rationally and say, this is bloody stupid.

Simon Lancaster:

What a complete waste of time watching people kick a ball about.

Simon Lancaster:

I mean, this is ludicrous, is absolutely ludi.

Simon Lancaster:

, but I freaking love it.

Simon Lancaster:

I absolutely love it.

Simon Lancaster:

So I've become a complete football addict.

Simon Lancaster:

I've literally, I've been to about 15 games this season and I'm afraid I'm

Simon Lancaster:

probably a football addict, like having spent the first 50 years of my life.

Simon Lancaster:

Not caring as shit about football at

John Ball:

all, . Well, may maybe there's a chance that I'll yet discover the joys

John Ball:

of it, but who, who can say, but I can certainly appreciate the atmosphere side

John Ball:

of things and the engagement and that for many people it might be one of the only

John Ball:

real times in their lives where they're actually really present in the moment,

John Ball:

as you say, not looking into phones and doom scrolling through Twitter or.

John Ball:

Simon, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting to you, as it always is, and

John Ball:

I wish you every success with the book.

John Ball:

I've thoroughly enjoyed reading it.

John Ball:

And there'll be links in the show notes for the book, your

John Ball:

book recommendations, and.

John Ball:

Some of the other stuff that we've talked about today as well for

John Ball:

people to go and check out, so

John Ball:

Simon Lancaster, thank you so much for coming and being a guest on

John Ball:

Podfluence and for making us part of your connect book launch event.

Simon Lancaster:

Johnny, thank you so much Having me on.

Simon Lancaster:

I always love speaking with you and I wish all the best to you and Podfluence.

Simon Lancaster:

I'm looking forward to the next few shows.

John Ball:

Well, thanks for tuning in.

John Ball:

I hope you have enjoyed the show.

John Ball:

If you did, make sure you are subscribed for future episodes.

John Ball:

In my next episode, I will be continuing my series on the seven

John Ball:

deadly sins of podcasting, things that you definitely should be

John Ball:

avoiding doing if you are looking to build influence as a podcast guest.

John Ball:

Let me once again quickly apologize for some of the sound issues in this episode.

John Ball:

One of the reasons why I generally don't do live episodes of the

John Ball:

show is the technical issues that come along with that that make it

John Ball:

not ideal for podcast listening.

John Ball:

Rest assured that my upcoming shows are all recorded in full studio

John Ball:

quality and certainly when Simon comes back on the show, we will do

John Ball:

a full studio recording for that.

John Ball:

If you enjoy the show and you would like more content of this

John Ball:

nature, you can subscribe to the Podfluencer Weekly newsletter.

John Ball:

And you are also welcome to join the Podfluencers Facebook group, both of

John Ball:

which are linked in the show notes, as well as links to Simon's books and his

John Ball:

book recommendations from this episode.

John Ball:

I do hope you'll join me again next time, but for now, wherever

John Ball:

you're going, whatever you're doing, have an amazing rest of your day.

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About the Podcast

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Present Influence
The podcast that helps professional communicators learn the skills that increase influence, impact and authority.

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About your host

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John Ball

John Ball is a keynote coach and professional speaker on a mission to help upcoming leaders master their communication, create impact and stand out as experts in their field.
John left the high life of his flying career to do something more meaningful to him and has since worked with several leading personal and professional development organisations as a lead coach and trainer.
The heart of everything John does involves helping people shift to personal responsibility and conscious awareness of how they show up and perform in every situation, whilst equipping them with the tools to be exceptional.
John also co-hosts The Coaching Clinic Podcast with his great friend and colleague Angie Besignano.
He lives in the beautiful city of Valencia, Spain with his husband and often visits the UK and US for speaking and training engagements. When he's not speaking or podcasting, he's likely to be out swimming, kayaking or enjoying time with friends.

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