Driving Business Growth and Overcoming Leadership Solitude: Insights from Business Sounding Board Phil Fraser

John: 00:00:00

How does having great presentation skills give you a serious

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edge in your professional life?

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Being able to step forward as a good

speaker and presenter is going to give you

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a huge competitive edge in business most

people are terrified of public speaking.

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How grateful do you think your colleagues

are going to be when you are the go

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to Presentation and public speaking

person that they can breathe a sigh of

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relief that it's not going to be them.

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My guest today is Phil Fraser and in the

show Phil's going to explain his unique

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role as a business sounding board and how

he distinguishes that from traditional

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business coaching and mentorship.

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Phil generally works with small

business owners who are looking

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to generate serious revenue.

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You know how they say

it's lonely at the top.

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Phil is there to help people combat

the loneliness of leadership Now he's

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also going to delve into some of his

extensive background in presentation

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skills detailing how his experience

as a sales trainer has given him a

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unique edge and he's going to share

some practical tips for managing Q& A

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sessions and one of my favorite parts

is that Phil is also going to share four

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things that make you very listenable.

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So welcome to Present Influence the

show that helps business leaders develop

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the skills to influence and inspire.

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My name is John Ball, I'm a keynote

coach and professional speaker and your

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guide on the journey to leadership level

communication and presentation skills.

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My mission is to provide rising

business leaders like you with

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everything you need to maximize your

impact and present with influence.

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Follow the show on your favorite

podcast apps for weekly episodes and

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interviews with influence experts.

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As we kick things off on the show today.

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Phil is going to explain what a

business sounding board does as a role.

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I would say one of the most

important things is that he becomes

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that trusted voice, for people

who may be don't have anyone that

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they can turn to in a business.

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But let's hear from Phil.

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Phil Fraser: Thanks

for having me on, John.

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okay, what's a business sounding board?

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In very simple terms, it's sort

of somewhere between a business

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coach and a business mentor.

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So I work with small business owners.

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So anyone between, let's say half

a million turnover to about three

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million, usually the staff of sort

of three to 12, that sort of size.

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And I work with the business owner

to stop them being lonely at the top.

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Cause we all know running your

own business is lonely at the top.

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When I first thought about doing this

I didn't want to call myself a business

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coach because I think business coaches,

definition, teach a certain skill.

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So it might be sales training.

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It might be presentation training.

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It's a coach, it's like a sports coach.

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It teaches you to be something better.

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And a business mentor often is business

or sector specific, and it tends to

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be somebody who's a bit further down

the road than you are in your role.

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So you need a mentor, somebody

who's walked the same path

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that you're about to walk.

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And I felt I didn't do either of those.

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I mean, I ran my own

business for 18 years.

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So I was very much a generalist, but

having run a business, I have, I'd

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always felt that lonely at the top.

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Who can I speak to?

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As business owners, hands up,

everybody, we all feel like we're

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making it up as we go along.

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And you can't sit in front of your team

and go, Hey guys, I'm going to I'm not

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really sure what we're doing here, but

this feels like the right way to go,

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which tends to be how business works.

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But if you've got somebody to talk

to, somebody outside the business,

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somebody who's been there and done that.

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Somebody you can sit down with and

say, Hey, Phil, I don't know what

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I'm doing, or I've got this problem.

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I don't know how to solve it,

or I've got this opportunity.

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I don't know how to maximize it.

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Or just to be an accountability partner.

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So, great running your own business.

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You make your own decisions,

but you tend not to do the

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things that You should be doing.

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you need somebody to go, John, last week,

you said you were going to do X, Y, and Z.

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Did you do them?

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And you're like no, I did

the things I like doing.

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I didn't do the horrible things I'm

supposed to do as business owner.

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So that's what I do?

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I help business owners to be

better business owners and

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to not be lonely at the top.

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So that's why I call myself

a business sounding board.

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John: One of the things that I shared

with Phil here was that myself and

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a friend that had an idea about

kind of being like a surrogate

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boss for people who are business by

themselves and don't have a boss.

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Because sometimes we need that person to

be able to tell us what to do and hold

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us accountable so that we can be our

own employee, as well as our own boss.

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One thing's for sure that people like

Phil needed because the old adage is true.

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It's lonely at the top.

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Phil Fraser: Yeah and you can

define it in lots of different ways.

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Sometimes it almost feels like being a

non exec director for a small company

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that doesn't need a non exec director.

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Sometimes it is being that accountability

partner, but most of the time it's me.

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Asking questions of the client and

saying, have you thought about this?

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Have you thought about that?

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How does that feel?

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How does that work?

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And the classic, why

do you do it like that?

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We've always done it like that.

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And obviously somebody looking

from the outside in can go, well

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why do you do it?

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Have you considered this?

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Have you considered that?

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And often clients will have

problems that I came across.

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In my business career.

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And it's not me saying I did it.

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I had that problem.

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I did this.

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You should go away and do it.

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It's I had that problem.

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This is how it played out for me.

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Have you considered this?

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Have you considered that?

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Have you considered the other, and

then they can go away and go, ah,

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now I know what I should be doing.

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I'm not telling them what to do.

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I'm helping them work out

what they should be doing.

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John: Now if you're a regular

listener to the show, you will know

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that one of the key areas that I

focused on ever since the show began.

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Is the area of influence and persuasion

and especially operating those

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things within an ethical framework.

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Now I wanted to find out from

Phil what his thoughts were around

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the importance of influence and

persuasion in his professional life.

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So here's what he had to say.

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Phil Fraser: Yeah.

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So my background going all the

way back I sold advertising space.

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So it was a lot of face to face stuff.

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It was a lot of telephone stuff.

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So I'm used to not presenting in

the standard sense of standing

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on a stage and talking to people,

but I'm used to selling to people.

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I then joined an ad agency and the ad

agency had this fantastic thing whereby.

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Everybody who joined the agency,

whether they be secretary or a director

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would go through an in house two day

presentation skills training course.

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So it was, Yeah,

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it was part confidence building.

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It's part team bonding.

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It was adding skillsets

to it, to everybody.

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And after I'd been through

that two day training.

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Eventually I was asked to be one

of the trainers and we did this.

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It was a two half days training

course about presentation skills.

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It was sort of based on

loosely based on Carnegie.

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But it had been sort of shuffled

around a bit and we talked about.

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Presentation deliverer.

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We talked about presentation structure.

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We talked about, , answering

questions at the end of presentations

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content and, this dates it slightly.

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We did it before PowerPoint.

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So it was like using, so we

were using props and visual

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aids and things like that.

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Then as PowerPoint came in, it was

like, okay, how, how not to use

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PowerPoint, Don't look at the screen.

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Don't just put words on,

all that sort of stuff.

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John: a quick aside here.

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I know how important PowerPoints are and

I know a bunch of people who love them

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on a bunch of people who hate them in

terms of speaking and presentation work.

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However, I'm going to be bringing in

a guest to the show very soon who's

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going to help us if we are going

to be using PowerPoint, help us to

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have the most beautiful and creative

PowerPoints and effective ones as well.

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So look forward to that coming up.

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Back to the show.

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Phil Fraser: So I'd been

training this as a freelance.

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So I left the agency and they still

brought me back in as a freelancer.

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So I'd been training this quite a lot.

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When I launched my own business

it was quite new in my sector.

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And the best way I thought of getting

myself out in front of as many people

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as possible, as quickly as possible was

to put my hand up and say, I'll speak

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at your conference, I'll speak at your

conference, I'll speak at your conference.

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So I was wheeled out on a regular

basis speaking at conferences.

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Eventually I ended up

chairing an annual conference.

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So, so I'm very used to being out there

in front of people doing presentations.

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And to be honest, I actually prefer

standing up on a stage and doing

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presentations than I do sort of like

a networking event doing one to one.

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A lot of people.

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There's a, what's the stats on like

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75 percent of people, 75 percent

of people fear dying, sorry, fear

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speaking in public more than dying.

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It's weird.

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People hate talking in public, but

if you've been trained to do it

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and you'd be given a structure,

you'd be given the tools, it's

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actually quite straightforward.

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And the other thing is, we used to

tell people this all the time and

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it's worth people noting is when you

go and stand up on stage and you look

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out there and there's all these faces

looking at you going, go on then.

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Everybody's rooting for you.

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They actually want you to be

a success and not to fail.

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So you're standing there going, oh shit.

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And then everybody in the

audience is going, come on.

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You can do it.

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You can do it.

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You can do it.

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And the other thing we used to tell people

is people don't know what you're going

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to say, so you can't get it wrong because

they don't know what you're going to say.

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And it's all about easing the

nerves and all that sort of stuff.

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But as with everything,

it's practice makes perfect.

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You just gotta go out and do

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John: It's amazing to me how many

people don't do things like getting

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up on a stage to speak just

because of the scared of it.

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Because they don't feel like it.

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They maybe don't feel

that they're good enough.

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And the reality is you're not

going to be, unless you get

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up and do it and practice it.

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So Phil's absolutely right that we have to

be willing to put ourselves out there and

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get up on stage in front of other people.

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And the more do it the better

we're going to get at it.

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So take note of what Phil says here and

how much of a professional edge that

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speaking and training has given him,

that it can also do the same for you.

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But there's another side to

this as well, which is that.

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By making ourselves uncomfortable

and putting ourselves out there

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as a speaker and trainer doing the

stuff that we're often afraid to do.

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And sometimes even unwilling.

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We become better versions of ourselves.

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There is a journey of personal and

professional transformation and

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development, but happens as we do this.

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And I wanted to find out from Phil,

what that has been like for him.

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Phil Fraser: Well, two sides to that.

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When we did the training course

the breakthrough on day two when

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people put things in, we used to

video them and then they'd watch.

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So we'd do them a, like a first video

before we did any training, then

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we'd do the last one after training.

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And the breakthrough with

everybody was just, Oh my God,

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this is absolutely amazing.

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From my point of view, What I used to

like about it was, yes, it gives you

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the opportunity to do a big sell to lots

of people all in one, all in one go,

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but also I, yeah, for years people had

come up to me and go, Oh, hi, Phil, and

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I'd look at them and go, no idea who

you are, but they think they know me

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because they've seen me talk on a stage?

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or something like that.

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So yes, transformational because it's such

a great way of getting your message out.

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To lots of people all at, all at one time.

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And, I'm still doing it now.

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I presented at a networking

event a few months ago.

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It's just one of those

things I love doing.

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And it's just as a sales

tool for anybody in business.

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It's just one of the, often it's free.

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It's, it's free marketing to an audience

who, if it's the right audience, want

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your product, it's better than cold

calling, it's better than direct mail.

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It's better than, Advertising.

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You're just there in front of people.

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It's just great.

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And more people should do it

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John: It sounds like it gave you

a real boost in terms of your

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own professional credibility.

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Did you also find that that boosted

your confidence as well as a

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professional person, as a leader?

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Phil Fraser: Very much.

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So very much so.

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And yeah, the sector I got into once

I launched my own business, we were

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in we were an online bingo affiliate.

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So we were part of the whole online

gaming industry because we were there

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quite early and cause I was wheeled

up on stage as, the bingo person, I

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was sort of given the moniker, Mr.

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Online Bingo.

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Huge credibility in the industry

and seen as one of the early movers

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in the sector, pretty much by me

being the one who got wheeled out

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regularly at industry conferences.

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It's great free PR, but it's

great for your personal brand.

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And it's great for credibility.

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If, Yeah.

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It says on your, on the screen

here, John Ball coach and speaker.

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So actually by you saying

speaker, you are saying you are

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giving yourself credibility.

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And it's, as I say, it's quite

easy, you and I've done it.

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It's quite easy to get that credibility

to be able to go, I'm a speaker.

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John: Yeah.

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I do find there is something about

being on a stage that there is a

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level to which unless you prove your

audience wrong, they assume some

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level of expertise by the fact that

you're Up on a stage in front of them.

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So I do appreciate that.

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A lot of people have fear , in

professional situations especially I

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that can really turn up the dials on the

fear here, about getting up and speaking

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and presenting in front of people.

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Did you have experiences of things

going very wrong or were there some

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particular times that stand out for you

as being like , horrible experiences

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moments in a positive way as well?

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Phil Fraser: I mean, it's like

any type of performance might

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be a sporting performance.

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It might be a professional performance.

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If you haven't got those butterflies

you're not psyched and ready.

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I am petrified.

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Every time before I stand up on stage,

but then it's about, more and better

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people to talk about this than me, but

it's about controlling their nerves and we

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used to talk about getting the butterflies

flying in formation like red devils.

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So rather than them go around in a circle,

you go, okay, let's just control this.

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And also, if you go up on stage

and you're talking to, 20 people, a

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hundred people, wherever it might be.

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Unless you've got that, I feel, unless

you've got that sort of adrenaline

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buzz, you're going to sound quite flat.

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In terms of anytime anything went

particularly wrong I don't think

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anything's gone particularly wrong.

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I, one thing that, that, Hugely stood

out for me and you have to be really

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confident in what you're doing to do this.

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I was, industry conference stood up on

stage, next speaker is going to be Phil

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Fraser stood up and there were two,

three people in the audience talking,

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just talk to the guy next to them.

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So I didn't say anything.

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I just waited and waited.

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And eventually they sort of thought,

oooh and then stopped talking.

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Silence is one of the best tools

you can use in presentations.

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But that, that still stands out for me,

cause I was like, yeah, and it was quite

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a senior guy in the industry as well.

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So I was,

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John: That's good, I love that.

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There's a lot of power in the

pause, a lot of power in the

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silence, I 100 percent agree.

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Were there any experiences from your

earlier life, like school or just

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when you were young, that maybe gave

some indication that this might be

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something you were good at or perhaps

helped to prepare you in some way for

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Phil Fraser: completely

opposite, completely opposite.

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I,

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I was quite shy at school.

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And I think a lot of the fear of

presentations and standing up in

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public, I think comes from school.

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I think schools have got a lot of,

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a lot of blame here.

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They go John sat at the back of class

when he's 10 years old and the teacher

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says, come on, John, you stand up and.

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: 00:15:00

read from the book or do a presentation

or do a talk about something with no

316

: 00:15:05

practice whatsoever no training in front

of your peers and that seed from the age

317

: 00:15:11

of eight nine ten eleven twelve, whatever

it, might be of humiliation failure fear

318

: 00:15:18

¡ When you get to 25 30 and somebody goes

right, Present to the board or present

319

: 00:15:23

at a conference You immediately go back

to that 10 year old and go, bollocks to

320

: 00:15:29

that, I'm not doing that, I'll, I'll let

somebody else do it And schools have a,

321

: 00:15:32

a lot of blame for that sort of thing, I

322

: 00:15:35

John: Yeah,

323

: 00:15:36

Phil Fraser: And that happened to

me as well, at no point at school

324

: 00:15:39

would I have ever said, that kid

there will love standing on stage.

325

: 00:15:43

John: Now, one of my favorite Ted talks

ever was by the late, great Sir Ken

326

: 00:15:50

Robinson, which is all about education

and how often education is de-geniusing

327

: 00:15:56

kids and what we can do instead.

328

: 00:15:58

And really part of that to me, I

think to Phil as well is about being

329

: 00:16:01

able to have those presentation and

speaking skills that are going to help

330

: 00:16:06

people become amazing communicators.

331

: 00:16:08

So I had a chat with Phil about

what he would like to see happen in

332

: 00:16:11

the educational world, that could

change things for the better, ¡ For

333

: 00:16:15

the prospects of younger people.

334

: 00:16:17

Phil Fraser: I think the logical thing

to do and, this is a huge can of worms

335

: 00:16:21

now, is like, what do schools prepare

kids for, or what should they do?

336

: 00:16:26

Basic presentation skills, it's one

of those things that you probably, if

337

: 00:16:31

you're in anything fairly commercial,

fairly competitive, you are going

338

: 00:16:34

to, in its broadest sense, present.

339

: 00:16:37

It might be presenting an idea

to three of your peers at work,

340

: 00:16:41

or it might be presenting to the

board, or just talking in public.

341

: 00:16:48

Schools don't teach you that.

342

: 00:16:49

There's tons of things schools

don't teach you that, I did I did

343

: 00:16:54

You know, like logarithmic

tables and things.

344

: 00:16:59

Absolutely zero use.

345

: 00:17:01

Immediately the exam bell finished.

346

: 00:17:04

This is a huge, this is a huge topic.

347

: 00:17:05

What should schools be preparing

kids for in current time?

348

: 00:17:09

But yeah, it's one of the

basic things I think schools?

349

: 00:17:12

should possibly teach.

350

: 00:17:14

John: I would love to see that myself,

351

: 00:17:16

there's an expectation in leadership.

352

: 00:17:18

A lot of the time that you are

supposed to be able to get up and

353

: 00:17:22

speak, that you should be able to

be the Steve Jobs of your business.

354

: 00:17:26

If you are a leader, and to be able to

deliver presentations the way he did

355

: 00:17:30

well, if you know anything about some

of Steve Jobs most famous presentations,

356

: 00:17:34

you might know how much effort,

energy and practice went into those.

357

: 00:17:38

And before he delivered them,

they were well-rehearsed

358

: 00:17:41

well-crafted and well presented.

359

: 00:17:43

They didn't just happen.

360

: 00:17:45

But he is also someone who was willing

to put his vision out into the world in a

361

: 00:17:49

way that made sense and to tell a story.

362

: 00:17:51

There was so many things that pay here.

363

: 00:17:53

We are not going to become amazing

speakers and presenters overnight.

364

: 00:17:58

However it is something that could

make the biggest difference in terms

365

: 00:18:02

of your development, and your ability

to influence and persuade others.

366

: 00:18:07

But what about that stage

fright that often comes up when

367

: 00:18:11

you're about to get on stage.

368

: 00:18:12

Here's what Phil says.

369

: 00:18:14

Phil Fraser: The agency I was at,

everybody who'd come through the door

370

: 00:18:17

as new recruits would go on this course.

371

: 00:18:19

And we'd often find, with all

due respect, the secretary would

372

: 00:18:23

actually end up doing a better

presentation than the account director.

373

: 00:18:26

Cause they've sort of, I don't know,

for lots and lots of different reasons.

374

: 00:18:30

So yeah, it's, it is, it's the whole

Peter principle in its broadest sense.

375

: 00:18:34

You get promoting almost past

your ability level and by the time

376

: 00:18:37

you're a senior executive, you're

expected to be able to present.

377

: 00:18:41

I've seen senior executives who

are, you, I mean like painful,

378

: 00:18:45

painfully poor at presenting.

379

: 00:18:47

John: Now here we're going to get

into, were Phil tells us one of

380

: 00:18:50

his favorite parts of training

was running Q and A sessions.

381

: 00:18:53

Something that I personally haven't

always enjoyed doing, but Phil is

382

: 00:18:57

going to give us some expert advice.

383

: 00:18:59

On how to have excellent Q and A.

384

: 00:19:01

So listen in.

385

: 00:19:02

Phil Fraser: The thing I love,

this was part of our training.

386

: 00:19:05

We did a, we used to do a

segment on questions and answers.

387

: 00:19:09

So yeah, person does a presentation

and often just ends, it just dies.

388

: 00:19:16

We used to do this thing where we teach

people to say, who has the first question?

389

: 00:19:23

So you stay in control

of the presentation.

390

: 00:19:25

So by saying who has the first question,

you're expecting questions, you're staying

391

: 00:19:30

in control, you're expecting more than

one question, encourages people to ask

392

: 00:19:33

questions, and we did this training

internally at my business as well.

393

: 00:19:37

So anytime, even if we

did it like an internal.

394

: 00:19:40

The management team report or something,

we don't, everybody would do it.

395

: 00:19:45

So anytime somebody didn't do it,

it was like, ah, he didn't do it.

396

: 00:19:49

He didn't do it.

397

: 00:19:49

He did it.

398

: 00:19:50

And I often watch people do

presentations and that bit at the

399

: 00:19:54

end where they just finish and go,

does anybody got any questions?

400

: 00:20:00

Yeah.

401

: 00:20:00

The whole thing falls apart.

402

: 00:20:01

That's the thing that really

stuck with me from the training.

403

: 00:20:03

John: And I absolutely love that.

404

: 00:20:05

that's particularly helpful for a

listener because a lot of people do have

405

: 00:20:09

these Q and A sessions and really don't

know how to handle or arrange them.

406

: 00:20:14

I personally tend to stay clear of some

of them, not because I don't know how

407

: 00:20:18

to approach it, but because it just

doesn't, isn't relevant unless I'm doing

408

: 00:20:21

a workshop, but , I wonder if there

are any other elements to running Q&

409

: 00:20:27

A that you might be able to share that

could be helpful for our listeners.

410

: 00:20:31

Phil Fraser: Okay.

411

: 00:20:31

Q and a couple of things for Q and a.

412

: 00:20:33

So, so.

413

: 00:20:34

You have to say those exact words.

414

: 00:20:36

Who has the first question?

415

: 00:20:38

Five words.

416

: 00:20:40

A brilliant tip I was given is if

you put your hand up while you're

417

: 00:20:45

saying it, it encourages people to

put their hand up and ask questions.

418

: 00:20:52

If you say who has the first

question and nobody has a question,

419

: 00:20:55

you then ask yourself a question.

420

: 00:20:56

So I'm often asked or I'm usually

asked X, Y, Z and you keep your

421

: 00:21:01

hand up and then you go again.

422

: 00:21:03

So who has the next question?

423

: 00:21:05

So it's just, it's encouraging

people to question.

424

: 00:21:07

And then, from a timing point

of view, if there's a couple of

425

: 00:21:10

people, you go, Dave, I'll take your

question, and Mary, I'll come back

426

: 00:21:14

to you, so you don't forget people.

427

: 00:21:16

And then, when you're closing it

out, you then do the same thing,

428

: 00:21:19

who has the final question?

429

: 00:21:20

Because you're saying, right,

that's it, that's the last question.

430

: 00:21:23

So, throughout this whole Q& A session, as

the speaker, you are totally in control.

431

: 00:21:29

And when there isn't a question,

you can ask yourself one.

432

: 00:21:33

From a timing point of

view, you can control it.

433

: 00:21:36

It encourages people to ask questions.

434

: 00:21:38

So that's, you can all use that.

435

: 00:21:40

Take that away.

436

: 00:21:41

But you've gotta use those five words.

437

: 00:21:42

Who has the first question?

438

: 00:21:44

John: I love that.

439

: 00:21:45

I'm always curious to know why people get

into podcasting in the professional world.

440

: 00:21:50

And how they get started, whether

they actually start off as a guest

441

: 00:21:53

or whether they start off as a host.

442

: 00:21:55

And some people, no.

443

: 00:21:56

Certainly some people come in

and just do one side of that.

444

: 00:21:59

Just the guesting or just the hosting.

445

: 00:22:01

So I wanted to know from Phil

what happened, the positive

446

: 00:22:03

effects of podcasting for him.

447

: 00:22:07

Phil Fraser: Okay.

448

: 00:22:07

So, I listen to a lot of podcasts,

mainly business and football.

449

: 00:22:12

I'm a Leeds United fan, so I listen

to Leeds United podcasts all the time

450

: 00:22:16

and I listen to business podcasts.

451

: 00:22:18

So when I launched myself as a business

sounding board, and again, I have an

452

: 00:22:22

advertising and marketing background,

okay, how do I get my message

453

: 00:22:25

out to as many people to relevant

audience as quickly as possible?

454

: 00:22:29

So I thought, I know what I'll do.

455

: 00:22:30

I will guest on other people's podcasts.

456

: 00:22:33

Because what you're doing

and hands up, this is What?

457

: 00:22:36

I'm doing here.

458

: 00:22:37

I'm piggybacking on your audience.

459

: 00:22:38

It's great.

460

: 00:22:39

I don't have to build an audience.

461

: 00:22:40

You've got one.

462

: 00:22:41

I can do my song and

dance to your audience.

463

: 00:22:44

So I started putting myself out on

464

: 00:22:47

lots

465

: 00:22:47

of other podcasts.

466

: 00:22:48

And actually, if anybody does want to

be a guest on podcasts, there were two

467

: 00:22:51

things I used a website called podmatch.

468

: 00:22:53

com.

469

: 00:22:54

And a website called matchmaker.

470

: 00:22:56

fm, both of which match podcast

hosts and podcast guests.

471

: 00:23:00

Fantastic.

472

: 00:23:01

So I did lots and lots of guesting on

other people's podcasts, explaining

473

: 00:23:04

what a business sounding board was, what

my offer is, all that sort of stuff.

474

: 00:23:08

And then, and this comes to us

all, and you've had this epiphany,

475

: 00:23:11

John, you say, how hard can

it be to run your own podcast?

476

: 00:23:16

And the answer is, it's a

lot harder than it looks.

477

: 00:23:22

So I thought, okay, I'm

getting used to this guesting.

478

: 00:23:25

Why don't I do my own podcast?

479

: 00:23:27

And again, very clear marketing

thought process was okay.

480

: 00:23:34

What am I trying to do?

481

: 00:23:35

I'm trying to get my message

out to my potential audience.

482

: 00:23:38

I'm based in Leeds.

483

: 00:23:39

I work with small business

owners, or medium sized business

484

: 00:23:43

owners, or large business owners.

485

: 00:23:45

So I created the Leeds business podcast.

486

: 00:23:48

So if I'm, or anybody is searching

through Apple or Spotify I want

487

: 00:23:54

to listen to a business podcast.

488

: 00:23:56

yeah.

489

: 00:23:56

there's hundreds out there, starting

from Diary of a CEO and Joe Rogan

490

: 00:24:00

and sort of working your way down

and I will, how do I stand out?

491

: 00:24:03

So if somebody who is in Leeds and goes,

Oh, I'm from Leeds, I own a business.

492

: 00:24:09

I'll listen to that rather than a

sort of a general business podcast.

493

: 00:24:13

And I love.

494

: 00:24:15

Listen to business owners,

business journeys and stories.

495

: 00:24:18

So, you go on holiday or you're on a

train, you start speaking to somebody

496

: 00:24:22

and they go, Oh, what do you do?

497

: 00:24:23

And they go, Oh, I, I make pencils.

498

: 00:24:26

And most people go what'd you

watch on Netflix last night?

499

: 00:24:28

They'd sort of move it on.

500

: 00:24:29

Whereas I'd go, you make pencil?

501

: 00:24:31

Wow.

502

: 00:24:31

That's really interesting.

503

: 00:24:32

How'd you do that?

504

: 00:24:33

How's it, how'd you market them?

505

: 00:24:34

How'd you get into that?

506

: 00:24:35

How'd you make a pencil?

507

: 00:24:36

So I love that all that sort of

story and so that's what I did.

508

: 00:24:40

I launched the Leeds Business Podcast

interviewing Leeds business owners

509

: 00:24:43

about their business journeys.

510

: 00:24:46

With the aim of raising my profile

in the Leeds business community

511

: 00:24:49

so that I could sell my services

as a business sounding board.

512

: 00:24:53

And that's how it came about.

513

: 00:24:54

So every week, every Wednesday 7

o'clock in the morning is a new episode.

514

: 00:25:00

And we're just I think we just hit 51.

515

: 00:25:02

So quite pleased with that.

516

: 00:25:04

John: now Phil has a local

based podcast in Leeds.

517

: 00:25:08

wondered if he was very selective about

being on podcasts that were also local.

518

: 00:25:11

Here's what he had to say.

519

: 00:25:12

Phil Fraser: Well, there are two or

three, maybe three or four Leeds based

520

: 00:25:18

podcasts that I'm aware of that I

have been on, but whilst I, I focus

521

: 00:25:22

on Leeds because I wanted to keep

it niche, the service I offer, I can

522

: 00:25:28

do remotely and I can do to anybody.

523

: 00:25:31

So I've been on Australian podcasts.

524

: 00:25:33

I've been on New Zealand podcasts.

525

: 00:25:35

I've been on lots of American podcasts.

526

: 00:25:37

So my service doesn't matter

where business owners are based.

527

: 00:25:40

And some of the international podcasts

and obviously they feel international

528

: 00:25:43

to us, but they're local to them

is really interesting cause yeah,

529

: 00:25:48

there's different perspectives and

different ideas and different views.

530

: 00:25:51

So, What the Americans do as normal,

is different to us and the same

531

: 00:25:56

with Australia or New Zealand.

532

: 00:25:57

So, yeah, I've been on, I've been, I'm an

international podcast guest, I can say.

533

: 00:26:02

John: Oh, that's cool.

534

: 00:26:03

Have you found that some podcasts

have moved the needle for you more

535

: 00:26:06

than others when you've been guesting?

536

: 00:26:09

Phil Fraser: In.

537

: 00:26:09

I mean, it's interesting and you said

you've done it the other way around,

538

: 00:26:13

having been a guest and then hosting.

539

: 00:26:19

It opens your eyes to what is good

hosting, what is poor hosting, what is

540

: 00:26:23

good guesting, what is poor guesting?

541

: 00:26:26

I've been on podcasts where it

almost feels like I'm a vehicle for

542

: 00:26:31

the host to put their opinion over.

543

: 00:26:34

Whereas when I'm the host, I feel I've

got the listeners in my ear going,

544

: 00:26:41

ask him this, rather than it being

a vehicle for me to give my opinion.

545

: 00:26:45

So, yeah, so it's interesting

how different people do that.

546

: 00:26:49

And, whether they've done research

before they've come on this show,

547

: 00:26:52

whether they've listened to episodes,

whether they even know who the guest is.

548

: 00:26:57

And then you've got, bigger podcasts

who have, assistants who book you

549

: 00:27:01

and make you fill in forms and

stuff like that, which just feel.

550

: 00:27:05

Almost like you're sort of being

wheeled out in front of the, In.

551

: 00:27:08

front of the host and sort

of wheeled out the other end.

552

: 00:27:11

Whereas, good hosts will do the research.

553

: 00:27:14

I mean, one of the things I do and you

did it to your credit as well, is I

554

: 00:27:17

do a pre interview chat with people.

555

: 00:27:21

So, A, when we're talking on a podcast,

it's not the first time we've ever met.

556

: 00:27:26

And that works just from a

basic chemistry point of view.

557

: 00:27:28

But also, If you do a pre chat and

you'll have found this, all right,

558

: 00:27:33

you can look at my LinkedIn, you can

look at my website, you get, you can

559

: 00:27:36

get a certain amount of information.

560

: 00:27:38

There's probably bits we spoke

about when we did our pre chat.

561

: 00:27:41

And I find this with my guests that

you think, Oh, I didn't know that.

562

: 00:27:45

I'll, that's going to be a

really good part of the show.

563

: 00:27:47

And that actually then

contributes to a better show.

564

: 00:27:50

So as I say, being a guest

does make you learn stuff.

565

: 00:27:53

And from a podcasting point

of view, but also as from a

566

: 00:27:56

guesting point of view, it's.

567

: 00:27:58

You can feel who's a good,

who's a good host and who isn't.

568

: 00:28:01

You're a

569

: 00:28:01

good host, John.

570

: 00:28:02

John: So, Phil's giving away some of

my inside secrets here in podcasting,

571

: 00:28:05

but yes I do pre-interview my

guests with very rare exceptions.

572

: 00:28:09

That whole process of pre-interview is a

valuable part of a decision-making process

573

: 00:28:14

and just know that it's okay to take your

time and to decide whether someone is

574

: 00:28:19

going to be the right fit for you and your

show, or whether you are going to be the

575

: 00:28:23

right fit for someone else as a guest.

576

: 00:28:25

Phil and I are mostly in agreement about

what makes a good podcast and what makes

577

: 00:28:30

you a good guest experience for a show?

578

: 00:28:32

And thankfully Phil enjoyed his

experience being in Present Influence.

579

: 00:28:36

But I was very curious, without wanting

to shame anyone, but what had been some

580

: 00:28:39

of his best and worst podcast experiences.

581

: 00:28:42

Phil Fraser: I think the one that

stands out as the worst, I think

582

: 00:28:44

was was the guy who was, so the

structure was he asked me a question.

583

: 00:28:49

I give my answer.

584

: 00:28:49

Then he gives his answer.

585

: 00:28:51

Then he asked me a question and I give

my answer and he, so it's like, And

586

: 00:28:55

that's not me being all precious and

ego, it's like, I'm sure, And this was

587

: 00:29:05

another business owner, it wasn't somebody

famous that people wanted to hear.

588

: 00:29:09

I'm sure people want to listen to what

the guest has to say, not what you have

589

: 00:29:12

to say, so the balance on there was wrong.

590

: 00:29:16

Any that stand out particularly

from a positive point of view?

591

: 00:29:18

No, I don't think there's any.

592

: 00:29:22

that, that stand out and

go, wow, that was amazing.

593

: 00:29:25

I think any of them that, that flow well,

that the host asks interesting questions,

594

: 00:29:31

but also you'll know this as a host.

595

: 00:29:33

And I try and do it as a host is

you're trying to, in your mind, you're

596

: 00:29:37

thinking, what will the listener want?

597

: 00:29:38

How will the listener benefit?

598

: 00:29:41

Will they get out of this?

599

: 00:29:44

What I want them to get out of this.

600

: 00:29:46

And, we want our listeners to end that

episode and go, From my point of view, I

601

: 00:29:51

always aim for interesting, motivational,

educational, and entertaining.

602

: 00:29:57

So if I can tick all those

four boxes, I think, yeah, the

603

: 00:30:01

listeners got something out of it.

604

: 00:30:02

And one of the things I've

crafted a couple of things into

605

: 00:30:05

the show to try and do that.

606

: 00:30:06

One is, I ask every week I ask

guests to do a how to so they

607

: 00:30:10

can share some experience, some

expertise with our audience.

608

: 00:30:15

So, and you'll know this as a

coach, and I found this as a coach.

609

: 00:30:20

We often in our minds will think, well,

everybody knows that, but they don't.

610

: 00:30:25

So, so all my guests have got

lots of things in their head that

611

: 00:30:29

they think, Oh, everybody knows

that, but actually we don't.

612

: 00:30:32

So that, that sort of

ticks the educational box.

613

: 00:30:34

And then the rest of it, I'm

hoping, By my guest selection,

614

: 00:30:38

they're going to be entertaining,

motivational, and inspirational.

615

: 00:30:42

John: side and, and I think

a lot of people miss that.

616

: 00:30:45

Podcasts need to be

entertaining to a degree.

617

: 00:30:48

I work with a lot of people on

keynote presentations as well.

618

: 00:30:53

And that's what they nearly always

miss, especially if they've come from

619

: 00:30:56

a training and workshop background

where the intuition is to teach and

620

: 00:31:02

to teach and to teach some more.

621

: 00:31:04

And it's great in a workshop,

although there still needs

622

: 00:31:09

to be some variety, I feel.

623

: 00:31:12

But it's not so great.

624

: 00:31:13

Not great.

625

: 00:31:13

in a keynote certainly

not great in a podcast.

626

: 00:31:16

interview where and maybe you've

had this experience as well of

627

: 00:31:20

going to someone else's show.

628

: 00:31:22

I hope I haven't really done this

myself as a host, but tell us about

629

: 00:31:26

yourself and all the typical questions

that kind of show they haven't

630

: 00:31:30

really got interview skills yet.

631

: 00:31:32

And And it really isn't, it isn't

It isn't kind of interesting.

632

: 00:31:36

It's just somebody droning on about

the life story for most of the episode.

633

: 00:31:40

So entertainment piece I think is.

634

: 00:31:41

So critical.

635

: 00:31:44

what do you do to maybe inject

some lightness or humor into your

636

: 00:31:49

appearances or your own show?

637

: 00:31:51

Phil Fraser: I always look at this

as, and I do this with clients.

638

: 00:31:57

And one of the things I encourage

clients to do is I use JFDI, just

639

: 00:32:01

do it, I'll miss the adjective out.

640

: 00:32:05

And the other thing I say within

that is look, We're not doing brain

641

: 00:32:09

surgery, nobody's going to die,

what's the worst that could happen?

642

: 00:32:13

So let's have a bit of fun with

it, and going back to the, so, so I

643

: 00:32:16

try and just keep it light anyway.

644

: 00:32:18

So if a guest says something that's

a bit funny or a bit odd or, just

645

: 00:32:23

a bit, whoa, I gotta say that again.

646

: 00:32:24

What was it you said?

647

: 00:32:25

You've just got to do that because,

we are being given as podcast hosts,

648

: 00:32:31

Somebody is giving us their attention

for half an hour, 45 minutes.

649

: 00:32:35

That's valuable.

650

: 00:32:36

There's a million other

things they could be doing.

651

: 00:32:38

So you've got to respect that and

honor that and make it entertaining.

652

: 00:32:43

Yes, it could be educational, but it's

got to be entertaining at the same time.

653

: 00:32:46

And some of that is, is how people

speak and how people deliver.

654

: 00:32:52

And, on one hand, you can argue

that, the way people talk.

655

: 00:32:55

They can't really help it, but

actually they can, going back to the

656

: 00:32:57

presentation skills we talked about.

657

: 00:33:00

What part of the training we talked about

was pause and pace and intonation and

658

: 00:33:03

impact and all those sorts of things.

659

: 00:33:05

They can all be taught.

660

: 00:33:06

You don't have to drone just

because you are naturally a droner.

661

: 00:33:10

You don't have to stay a droner

that talks like this all the

662

: 00:33:14

time and is very monotone.

663

: 00:33:16

It can be taught.

664

: 00:33:17

So it has to be entertaining.

665

: 00:33:19

So, but you know, somebody sat in

the car, then the gym, then on a dog

666

: 00:33:21

walk, they've got us in their ears,

it's very easy to go, geez, this is

667

: 00:33:26

really boring, I'll go somewhere else.

668

: 00:33:27

So you have to make it entertaining.

669

: 00:33:29

If you can make it entertaining and

educational and inspirational and

670

: 00:33:32

motivational all at the same time.

671

: 00:33:35

And something that, I mean, I had, I

think the best podcast I've listened

672

: 00:33:39

to for a long time was Daniel Priestly

on Stephen Bartlett's daughter, if

673

: 00:33:44

you see I was driving, listening

to it and it got halfway through.

674

: 00:33:47

And I thought I'm going to have to

go home and listen to this again.

675

: 00:33:49

Cause I'm going to need a pad and a pen.

676

: 00:33:52

And if you can get to that level of

inspiration and motivation, education,

677

: 00:33:56

John: yeah.

678

: 00:33:56

Daniel's been on this show before.

679

: 00:33:57

He is a great guest.

680

: 00:33:59

Awesome.

681

: 00:34:01

Yeah.

682

: 00:34:01

Yeah.

683

: 00:34:01

Yeah.

684

: 00:34:01

Phil Fraser: on as well.

685

: 00:34:02

John: He's a, He's an interesting guy.

686

: 00:34:04

Phil Fraser: He's brilliant.

687

: 00:34:05

Absolutely brilliant.

688

: 00:34:06

John: That's fantastic.

689

: 00:34:08

Thank you.

690

: 00:34:08

There's some great insights there

Do you find that hosting a show

691

: 00:34:11

has been professionally beneficial?

692

: 00:34:14

Have you picked up clients

through guesting and hosting?

693

: 00:34:17

Phil Fraser: I've, I haven't

specifically picked up clients

694

: 00:34:20

but the aim I had was twofold.

695

: 00:34:22

One was.

696

: 00:34:23

Raise my awareness in the

local business community.

697

: 00:34:26

And that has a big tick, of people

coming up to me in networking

698

: 00:34:30

events, go, Oh, I love your podcast.

699

: 00:34:31

It's great.

700

: 00:34:32

And I go, Oh, goodness me.

701

: 00:34:33

This is really, it's a real like, Oh my

God, I'm honored that you actually, A,

702

: 00:34:38

you listen and B, you think it's good.

703

: 00:34:40

But I think the long term part

of it is as a podcast host, you

704

: 00:34:45

are there to interview the guest.

705

: 00:34:48

As a business sounding board.

706

: 00:34:50

I want people to feel that they are

comfortable with me and to work with

707

: 00:34:55

me, so it's a whole know, like, trust,

which is more of a long term play.

708

: 00:34:59

So I don't think anybody's gonna

listen to me interviewing somebody

709

: 00:35:02

and going, He's a great interviewer, I

want him as a business sounding board.

710

: 00:35:06

That gap's too big, so I

need to close that gap.

711

: 00:35:11

And there's ways and means I'm

trying to do that at the moment.

712

: 00:35:13

To go, I'm a podcast host.

713

: 00:35:16

I'm a business sounding board.

714

: 00:35:17

Come and work with me.

715

: 00:35:18

But if I've been in, and you'll know this

as well, if you've been in somebody's

716

: 00:35:22

head for two or three years, I've only

been in a year, you've been in a lot

717

: 00:35:27

longer than I have, eventually they come

to know you as a person, they understand

718

: 00:35:31

you, and then they get to the point where

they go, I'd like to work with that guy.

719

: 00:35:36

And also a lot of people who listen

to podcasts might not be at the point

720

: 00:35:39

in their business journey where they

721

: 00:35:40

feel they need one, but

Well, they need my services.

722

: 00:35:44

But it's often like that with marketing

you try and stay front of mind so that

723

: 00:35:48

when they do need you, they go, ah, if I'm

going to, if I'm going to get a business

724

: 00:35:53

coach, business mentor, business sounding

board, I'd love to work with Phil.

725

: 00:35:56

Cause I've been listening to him

for weeks and weeks and weeks.

726

: 00:35:58

And I feel like I know the

guy and I trust him and.

727

: 00:36:01

I like the way it works and whatever.

728

: 00:36:03

John: It reminds me of what my good

friend Bob Gentle says, he has a great

729

: 00:36:07

show he said, even if it, even if he

didn't have the level of listeners

730

: 00:36:09

he had, he still thinks it's worth

doing for the positioning that it

731

: 00:36:12

gives you and the access to people.

732

: 00:36:15

And which I 100 percent agree with

is great for your positioning, and

733

: 00:36:18

it's certainly great for things like

credibility, and I found it's given me

734

: 00:36:24

the, , the bravery, if you like, to be

able to go and approach people who I

735

: 00:36:29

probably never would otherwise approach,

but I would really want to, say, would

736

: 00:36:33

you be open to coming and being a guest

on the show, because I can do it for

737

: 00:36:36

the the audience , it's not just for

me, because I want to connect with them,

738

: 00:36:39

And I found that doesn't always work

out with a yes, but so often it does as

739

: 00:36:44

well that makes it really worthwhile.

740

: 00:36:46

It's great that it relates

to what you do now as well.

741

: 00:36:50

who do you generally end up working

with as a business sounding board?

742

: 00:36:54

Is it mostly business owners or

people inside other businesses?

743

: 00:36:59

Who do you really help?

744

: 00:37:00

Phil Fraser: So I work with business

owners rather than something

745

: 00:37:02

like C Suite or stuff like that,

although I suppose I could.

746

: 00:37:06

So if you're a business owner with

between three and fifteen staff, half

747

: 00:37:10

a million turnover to three million

turnover, I find those business

748

: 00:37:15

owners are still, whilst, they've got

businesses making money and, things

749

: 00:37:19

are starting to work, there's lots of

bits in that part of the journey where

750

: 00:37:23

they're still learning and they don't

know what to do, or they're stuck, or

751

: 00:37:27

they don't know how to get to the next

stage and that Is my sweet spot and

752

: 00:37:32

they're the people I tend to work with.

753

: 00:37:35

I always start, with clients with what

does perfect look like in a year's time?

754

: 00:37:41

And you think, well, that's a

simple question, more sales.

755

: 00:37:46

And you go, well, all

right, it's more sales.

756

: 00:37:47

What you really want to go.

757

: 00:37:48

Well, actually, I'd like to

hit a million pound turnover.

758

: 00:37:52

You go, okay, so is that the target?

759

: 00:37:53

Well, actually, do you know what?

760

: 00:37:55

I'd like to work four days a week.

761

: 00:37:57

And I actually had this with a client.

762

: 00:37:59

I want to play golf on a Friday.

763

: 00:38:01

That's what perfect looks

like in a year's time.

764

: 00:38:04

And then what I do with my clients

is I work backwards from there to

765

: 00:38:08

build a strategy to deliver that.

766

: 00:38:12

So that's how I help business owners.

767

: 00:38:15

And I use a, I've got a five step very

basic strategy system, which I call the

768

: 00:38:22

Fraser five step so that I can write

FFS on an email and snig it to myself,

769

: 00:38:29

it's very childish very childish.

770

: 00:38:31

and We use this five step process

to, to put a strategy together.

771

: 00:38:34

So, okay.

772

: 00:38:35

If perfect is.

773

: 00:38:38

What do we need to do?

774

: 00:38:38

What do we put in place?

775

: 00:38:39

How do we make it.

776

: 00:38:40

deliver?

777

: 00:38:40

Who's going to do It

778

: 00:38:41

Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

779

: 00:38:43

And that's how I work with business owners

because they can control all of that.

780

: 00:38:48

And that question, what does

perfect look like in a year's time?

781

: 00:38:52

sounds really simple, but actually

when you think about it, it then

782

: 00:38:57

really gets the brain going.

783

: 00:38:59

So yeah, if anybody wants to wants a

copy of the FFS drop me an email at Phil.

784

: 00:39:03

philfraser.

785

: 00:39:05

co.

786

: 00:39:05

uk.

787

: 00:39:05

Happy to share it with you.

788

: 00:39:06

It's a very simple document.

789

: 00:39:07

You can fill it in yourself

or I can help you fill it in

790

: 00:39:09

John: sounds good, Phil.

791

: 00:39:10

Phil Fraser: And you can snigger

to yourself that somebody

792

: 00:39:12

professionals for FFS in

793

: 00:39:13

John: You know, if

794

: 00:39:14

sometimes my mom listens

and she'll be she'll again.

795

: 00:39:18

What's FFS?

796

: 00:39:19

So she Googles that I'm coming back to you

797

: 00:39:23

Phil Fraser: Sorry, Mrs.

798

: 00:39:23

Ball.

799

: 00:39:25

John: so that'll be in the show

notes for anyone who wants to come

800

: 00:39:27

and check that and get in touch with

you and I think that sounds like a

801

: 00:39:30

great form and a really simple a lot.

802

: 00:39:32

I like that.

803

: 00:39:33

It was really just You just ask

that question, what does perfect

804

: 00:39:35

look like in a year's time?

805

: 00:39:37

And then just, is that

what you really want?

806

: 00:39:39

Is that what you really want?

807

: 00:39:40

It's not that hard to drill into it.

808

: 00:39:42

And yet we need those need to have

as business owners or entrepreneurs

809

: 00:39:46

or whatever level we're in, really,

or business, that thinking time,

810

: 00:39:51

that ability to ask the questions.

811

: 00:39:53

One of like, one of my favorite books is

, The Road Less Stupid, if you've ever come

812

: 00:39:57

across that, which is Keith Cunningham.

813

: 00:39:59

And that's all about business owners

or business people asking themselves

814

: 00:40:04

important questions and taking some

time out to think, but structured

815

: 00:40:08

time out to think, where you're

asking yourself relevant and important

816

: 00:40:11

questions, because if we don't plan

those times with someone like you

817

: 00:40:16

or for ourselves, It doesn't happen.

818

: 00:40:19

We just get caught up in the busy.

819

: 00:40:20

So I really love that you're out there

giving people the opportunity to take

820

: 00:40:26

that big picture, the overview and

have someone to sound stuff out so

821

: 00:40:30

they can get clarity and create that

plan to what they really, really want.

822

: 00:40:35

Phil, I hope people will

get in touch with you.

823

: 00:40:37

It's been awesome having you on the

show and I really appreciate all that.

824

: 00:40:41

Knowledge bombs that you've dropped

and the valuable information that

825

: 00:40:45

you shared and that if only one thing

people remember from this is like what

826

: 00:40:51

does perfect look like a year from

now or they remember the Q& A stuff.

827

: 00:40:54

Awesome, we've done it.

828

: 00:40:55

We've done our job today.

829

: 00:40:57

So, Phil Fraser, thank you for coming

and being a guest on Present Influence.

830

: 00:41:00

Phil Fraser: It's a pleasure.

831

: 00:41:01

Thanks for having me on John.

832

: 00:41:02

John: I really enjoyed the chat.

833

: 00:41:03

I got the half with Phil and the fact

that we both shared understanding

834

: 00:41:06

of that presentations and guest

appearances need to be entertaining.

835

: 00:41:11

You need to have some value that

you're going to give and you need to

836

: 00:41:14

be somewhat animated and have a level

of charisma about you whilst you do it.

837

: 00:41:19

Over the years I've generally found that

people are unwilling to put themselves

838

: 00:41:22

forward, often talk themselves down or

talk themselves out of being able to

839

: 00:41:26

be that person who gets up and does the

training gets up and does the presenting.

840

: 00:41:30

Without sometimes being put in

the position where they're told

841

: 00:41:32

they have to do it or where there

really is no other option.

842

: 00:41:36

But why wait?

843

: 00:41:37

Because you may never really get put in

the position where you have to, but for

844

: 00:41:41

something that can be so advantageous to

your professional growth and development.

845

: 00:41:46

And you're positioning.

846

: 00:41:48

You may want to consider how you

could be getting up in front of people

847

: 00:41:51

in your professional life, whether

that's as a speaker or workshop

848

: 00:41:54

leader, as a podcast host, as a

podcast, guest, all these things are

849

: 00:41:58

going to enhance your credibility.

850

: 00:42:00

And potentially your positioning as well.

851

: 00:42:02

If you are a business owner,

852

: 00:42:04

one of the things I will especially

be taken away from this episode is how

853

: 00:42:07

to effectively run a Q and a session.

854

: 00:42:10

And some of the great questions

that Phil says to ask in the right

855

: 00:42:13

way that sets you up for success.

856

: 00:42:17

I hope this has been great value to you.

857

: 00:42:18

I'm going to be back next week with

another episode, which is going to be the

858

: 00:42:22

follow on in my keynote creation series.

859

: 00:42:25

We've already talked a little bit

about the keynote development and

860

: 00:42:27

expert positioning that I've been

working on, now I'm going to take

861

: 00:42:31

you forward into creating what's

called an abstract for the talk.

862

: 00:42:34

And the actual talk

title and concept itself.

863

: 00:42:38

So, it's going to be a fun episode.

864

: 00:42:40

If you are writing keynotes or you're

interested in creating keynotes.

865

: 00:42:43

You might want to tune him for that.

866

: 00:42:45

And if you're looking for help with

your own keynote creation and delivery,

867

: 00:42:48

you might just want to get in touch.

868

: 00:42:50

And you're very welcome to do that.

869

: 00:42:51

You can email me,

john@presentinfluence.com.

870

: 00:42:55

Either way.

871

: 00:42:55

I hope you'll stay tuned to the show and

will listening for the keynote series and

872

: 00:42:59

for future interviews, guests that I have

coming up, I'm getting so many wonderful

873

: 00:43:03

guests coming forward for the show that

I can't wait to bring them all to you.

874

: 00:43:07

So wherever you're going,

whatever you're doing.

875

: 00:43:08

Have an amazing week.

876

: 00:43:09

I will look forward to

seeing you next time.

877

: 00:43:11

Bye-bye.