Episode 273
Why How-To Content Is Killing Your Speaking Career (with David Newman)
David Newman is a speaker, consultant, and author of four books, including Do It Speaking and Market Eminence. He's spent decades helping experts, consultants, and professional speakers build what he calls market eminence -- the combination of visibility, credibility, and brand preference that makes you the obvious choice in your field.
In this conversation, David makes the case that the era of how-to content is over, that differentiation is not optional, and that most speakers are making themselves dangerously easy to replace. He also shares the three types of content that AI cannot replicate and a practical framework for becoming a category of one.
What you'll take away:
- Why branding agencies are often the wrong first move for speakers -- and what to do instead
- The fire hose problem: why giving audiences too much content kills your follow-up business
- The mule vs magician distinction: what high-value clients actually want to buy
- Why how-to content is finished as of November 2022 -- and the three content types that still work
- How to think, what to believe, and where to focus next: the framework for content that AI can't produce
- The market eminence model: visibility, respect, and brand preference as the three pillars of getting booked
- Category of one: what it actually means and why being divisive is the strategy, not the risk
- Why your website navigation might be quietly sabotaging your speaking enquiries
- The "disturbing your enemy" exercise: how to find your position by identifying who you'd rather repel
Connect with David Newman: Website: doitmarketing.com | Market Eminence resources: marketeminence.com
Join me for the Speaker positioning event on May 27th, A Position of Authority: Why Most Speakers Are Invisible (And What To Do About It)
https://present-influence.kit.com/products/a-position-of-authority-event
CHAPTERS
00:00 AI Changed Speaker Content
01:49 Branding Is BS
04:57 Stop The Firehose
10:23 Mule Versus Magician
15:26 Front Load Airport Value
17:52 Market Eminence Framework
20:05 Category Of One
26:06 Finding Contrarian Differentiation
28:03 Spotting Anti Clients
30:51 Disturb Your Audience
32:29 Why Speakers Dont Book
33:40 Three Content Upgrades
35:04 Future Casting Advantage
38:22 Is Speaking Doomed
40:27 No Footnotes Needed
43:15 Marketing Show Your Work
45:38 Make Speaking Obvious
49:07 Where To Find David
50:31 Host Wrap And Workshop
52:28 Follow Review And Farewell
FAQ SECTION
Why is how-to content no longer effective for professional speakers?
According to author and speaker strategist David Newman, how-to content became obsolete in November 2022 when ChatGPT became publicly available. AI systems can now produce more comprehensive, accurate, and faster how-to content than any human speaker. John Ball and David Newman argue that speakers who continue to rely on how-to content are competing directly with AI on AI's strongest ground. The only content that remains uniquely human is content based on personal experience, hard-won expertise, and a genuine point of view.
What are the three types of content that AI cannot replace for professional speakers?
David Newman identifies three categories of Professional Speaking: Known. Booked. Paid. The first is how-to-think content -- strategic, insight-driven content based on the speaker's own experience and expertise that helps audiences approach problems differently. The second is belief-shifting content that separates myths from truths and challenges conventional wisdom based on the speaker's direct observations. The third is future-casting or trend-spotting content that helps audiences understand what is coming next and how to prepare for it. Newman argues that focusing exclusively on these three areas can transform a speaking business within 90 days.
What does it mean for a speaker to become a "category of one"?
David Newman defines a category of one as a speaker whose specific combination of topic, perspective, philosophy, and personal experience cannot be replicated by any other speaker. It does not mean being the only speaker on a topic -- it means being the only speaker who approaches that topic from your particular angle, with your particular beliefs and your particular biases. Newman argues on the show with John Ball that divisive, opinionated positioning is not a risk but a strategy: the people who resonate deeply will book you; those who do not were never going to book you anyway.
How can professional speakers find and develop a contrarian positioning?
David Newman and John Ball discuss on the podcast that the first step is identifying who you would actively not want to hire you -- your "enemy" -- and then creating content that would deliberately alienate them. Newman shares a story of a client whose contrarian positioning around corporate intrapreneurship was validated when a hostile executive told her exactly what he did not want -- which confirmed she had found her position. The homework Newman recommends is to write, post, or share something that would genuinely upset the audience you do not want, because doing so more strongly attracts the audience you do.
What is the "mule vs magician" distinction, and why does it matter for speakers and coaches?
The mule vs magician framework, developed by David Newman, describes two different orientations to value in speaking and coaching programmes. A mule mentality is focused on volume -- more content, more bonuses, more videos, more binders. A magician mentality is focused on outcome -- the shortest possible path to the result the client already knows they want. Newman argues that high-value buyers and executives are no longer impressed by quantity and that the correct question when designing a programme is not what to add but what to remove.
Visit https://strategic-speaker.scoreapp.com to take the 2-minute Strategic Speaking Business Audit and find out what's blocking you from getting more bookings, re-bookings, referrals and bigger fees. There's a special surprise gift for everyone who completes the quiz.
Want to get coached for free on the show? Fill in the form https://forms.gle/mo4xYkEiCjqtz9yP6, and if we think your challenge could help others, we'll invite you on.
For speaking enquiries or to connect with me, you can email john@presentinfluence.com or find me on LinkedIn
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Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
If you've been putting out tips, strategies, and how-to content
2
:to grow your speaking career, this
episode is going to be uncomfortable
3
:because that content is no longer
doing the job it used to do, and my
4
:guest today will tell you exactly why.
5
:Most speakers are unknowingly
competing with AI on AI's home turf.
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:They're sharing information that
anyone can now get from a chatbot
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:in 30 seconds and wondering why the
inquiries aren't coming through.
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:David Newman has spent decades helping
speakers, consultants, and experts
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:become the obvious choice in their field.
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:His books like Do It Speaking and
Market Eminence are two of the most
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:practically dense resources in this
industry, and he has more as well.
12
:Today, we're getting into what content
still works, how to position yourself
13
:so that hiring anyone else feels like
the wrong call, and what it actually
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:takes to become a category of one.
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:Welcome to Professional Speaking, the show
for people who are serious about speaking
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:and becoming known, booked, and paid.
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:My name's John Ball, professional
speaking coach, keynote speaker, and
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:stand-up comedian, and sci-fi nerd.
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:I'm here as your guide on the journey to
a successful speaking career great for
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:me to be able to welcome David Newman
to the Professional Speaking Studio.
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:David Newman: Hey, John.
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:It's great to be here.
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:Thank you.
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:John: your voice has been in my head a
lot recently 'cause I've been enjoying
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:listening to your audiobooks, "Market
Eminence" and "Do It Speaking."
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:Great books, and I'm sure we'll touch
on elements of those as we go forward.
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:I like to kick things off by asking
my guests whether you have, like, an
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:opinion or a stance in the industry
that maybe is a bit contrarian to
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:what you hear other people saying.
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:not sort of common wisdom, as it were.
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:David Newman: So this is my-- This
is where I live, and I have lots
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:and lots of contrarian opinions, but
I'll just share one as per request.
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:my first book, in the "Do It Marketing"
book, I actually have a micro chapter
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:whose title is "Branding is BS."
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:Branding is BS.
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:And, I talk about all of the, war
crimes, the heinous war crimes
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:that branding agencies have done
to professional experts, whether
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:it's a consultant or a coach or a
speaker or a business book author.
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:And John, I've literally had people
come to work with me as a client on the
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:sales call, and I even save these sales
calls 'cause they're so much fun to,
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:They're crying because they said, "I just
spent $30,000 on this branding agency.
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:They didn't get me.
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:They didn't understand
my book, my speaking.
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:they put this branding thing on
me, and it felt like I was wearing
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:a ill-fitting suit of clothing.
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:And I knew from the beginning,"
they say, "I knew from the
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:beginning that this doesn't fit.
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:This is not gonna work.
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:I had a bad feeling from square
one, but they just kept convincing
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:me and saying, 'This is how it's
done,' and so on and so forth."
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:Not to say that there aren't a
few good branding consultancies.
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:I'm sure there are.
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:But the fact that speakers and experts,
they will reach for branding, they
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:will reach for PR, public relations,
they will reach for any sort of
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:easy cheat code or shortcut, and
the reason that's so appealing, I
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:think, to some people is because they
don't wanna face the fact that they
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:actually have to do the hard work.
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:John: Right.
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:This is, where people get, get themselves
lost in all the preparation that
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:can go on forever and ever, right?
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:David Newman: Yes.
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:John: Yeah, I definitely get that.
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:It would've been interesting to have you
on when I spoke to Mark Schaefer recently.
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:I'm sure you two would have a lot to talk
about in, in, in the world of branding.
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:come across quite a few of those sort
of positions from you in your books, and
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:I say in terms of, content and value,
I don't think I've ever come across a
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:book, that has so much packed into it.
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:Certainly as Do It Speaking,
Market Evidence as well.
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:These are not books that you can
just listen to on 2 times speed and,
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:work your way all the way through.
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:It's like, I, I tried
that and it blew my brain.
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:you have to have your pause button
ready, and you have to stop and
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:take action on these things because
there's so many and they're all gems.
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:They're all stuff like,
"Yes, you have to do this."
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:Um, now, we've probably told most
speakers, when they do talks and
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:stuff not to do that with their talks,
but with a book it's very different.
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:What, what was your, um, inspiration
to starting that in the first place,
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:and how did you end up pulling that
book together with so much value?
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:David Newman: Yes.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah, so thank you, and that's also
a very, very wise distinction about
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:jamming way too much into a speech
versus jamming way too much into a book.
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:Um, I'll, I'll just riff on that for
a quick second because I think people
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:probably can't hear it often enough.
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:When you're giving a presentation,
when you're in front of a group,
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:the number one thing that will kill,
that will kill your follow-up, that
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:will kill your client attraction
is giving them too much content.
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:I used to make this mistake.
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:Here's why I'm so
passionate about this, John.
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:I, I used to be the fire hose, and
my, evaluations and my feedback
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:were like, "Oh my God, it was, it
was like drinking from a fire hose.
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:It was 21 strategies in 60 minutes.
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:It was totally amazing."
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:Now, as speaker feedback, you
think, "Hey, I did a great job.
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:I over-delivered."
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:When I was following up with these
people, I remember one gentleman
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:in particular taught me this lesson
with a very harsh slap of truth.
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:He was very interested, he seemed
like a prospect, and I said, "Well,
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:you know, would you like some help
implementing what we talked about today?"
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:And he says, "Oh, David.
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:David, David, David.
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:I'll tell you, as far as coaching, as
far as consulting, no, no, no, no, no.
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:You gave me so much, it's gonna take
me six months to work through my to-do
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:list from your presentation today."
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:And I was like, "Okay."
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:So now, I have embraced the wisdom,
the speaking wisdom of Do three, do
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:three concepts in great depth that
are very helpful and will serve
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:that audience really, really well.
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:Save the other 18, 'cause I literally
used to have, a 60-minute program
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:called 21 Strategies to X, Y, and Z.
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:three things in great depth that
will actually help solve two or
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:three very specific problems.
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:Leave the rest unaddressed.
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:Leave the rest, say, "Hey, you
know, there's a lot more to
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:this, but let me help you solve
these three things right now."
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:And then people would say, "First of
all, what are the other 18 things?"
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:And, and, you know, it's people are afraid
of they don't know what they don't know.
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:If you tell them, "Well, here's a
little bit of a snack in 21 areas," they
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:feel that they can eat for six months.
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:If you say, "Let's go deep on three areas,
there's a whole lot more to this, but,
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:you know, we'll cross that bridge later
on," it's, it's leave them wanting more.
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:It's the old theater saying
about leave them wanting more.
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:to address your question about how
did I write the books, uh, this, you
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:know, bloviating, as you can tell
right now, comes naturally to me.
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:Bloviating on paper, in print is amazing.
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:It's called a high-value, dense, flourless
chocolate cake kind of book, where you've
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:taken out the boring parts and it's
just hit after hit after hit, and rant
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:after rant after rant, and strategy and
template and tool and trick and tip.
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:And so I thrive in that.
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:One of my StrengthsFinder strengths
is actually input, so I love, I
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:love reading, I love, you know,
listening, I love watching things.
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:And then as a creator myself,
uh, my other StrengthsFinders
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:are things like maximizer,
activator, ideation, and empathy.
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:So all of my books, including the, the
Do It Speaking book that you mentioned,
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:including the Market Eminence book, that
is the new one, I remember vividly what
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:it was like not to know these things,
and I remember vividly what it was like
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:to make all the mistakes, hit all the
dead ends, hit all the brick walls.
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:And it's almost like I'm writing the book
to an earlier version of myself that, man,
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:I wish I had known these things earlier.
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:I wish I had done these things earlier.
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:So that's where that fire hose
of book content comes from.
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:John: Yeah.
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:Yeah, no, it is a good trait and, I've
certainly got a lot of value from it.
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:In fact, keep, keep going back to it.
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:I'm on my second reading of
"Do It Speaking" right now,
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:David Newman: Yeah.
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:John: it's not, a one-time
read in my opinion.
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:And, and it's not every book you
come across that, that's like that.
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:I love what you say there about, to
introduce them to like a whole framework
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:or concept and then say, "All right,
here's just a little bit of it," and
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:like leave them, hungry for the rest.
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:I think that's such a great strategy,
one that I, I like to use and,
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:and teach to my clients as well.
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:Um, in terms of, find a lot of...
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:It is a lot of the sort of
people with teaching training
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:characters, backgrounds who do have
more of the fire hose tendency.
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:Um, but it's not a terrible thing
to have so long as you rein it in.
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:And I would say even with
your book, there's...
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:I, I don't think there's anything
that I've come across there
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:that didn't need to be there.
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:It's like, it, it's lean in terms of
there's not extraneous content in there.
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:And then I'm gonna say this, I
then I went to your bonus page,
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:and it's gonna take me six months
to work through all those bonuses.
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:That's...
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:Just, blown away by how many
bonuses you had there and, again,
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:all relevant, all valuable, I think
all mentioned in the book as well,
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:which is, pre-pretty incredible
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:David Newman: Yes, thank you.
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:Well, the bonuses, changed my philosophy.
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:So the first three books,
the "Do It Marketing," "Do It
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:Speaking," "Do It Selling."
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:I had a different philosophy with
bonuses on those three books.
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:With the "Market Eminence" book, I'm
taking the medicine that I just shared
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:with everyone about make it much narrower
and much more specific, and also all
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:the Market Eminence bonuses are from me.
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:So rather than have, launch partners and
people that are providing bonuses, and
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:obviously everyone benefits because then
you opt into their email list and you
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:can stay on there, you can unsubscribe
after you get the bonus, whatever.
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:Um, I realized that
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:I think in 2026 and beyond, people are,
no longer impressed by the thud factor.
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:You know, the thud factor where, like,
you used to get this big box that all
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:the internet marketers would send you
a $2,000 course, and then this big
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:cardboard box full of binders and DVDs
and recordings and transcripts, and it was
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:like a 40-pound box and it was like, boom.
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:And it's like, "Well,
I got my $2,000 worth."
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:And this goes to a concept
that I wrote about, I think
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:in the "Do It Selling" book.
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:It's about mule versus magician,
and there are mule speakers and
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:there are mule audiences, and there
are magician speakers and there are
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:magician audiences or prospects.
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:A mule wants the stuff.
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:It's a pack mule, and it's got
the two heavy baskets on the side.
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:And the more crap that we can put into
those saddlebags on the mule, the more
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:valuable the speaker thinks it is, and
they're wrong, by the way, and the more
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:valuable the audience thinks it is.
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:They're also wrong, by the way.
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:The magician, on the other hand,
says, "Let's do the transformation
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:with the minimum," right?
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:The minimum amount of time,
the minimum amount of work.
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:Let's get you there as
soon as humanly possible.
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:And the magician's job is to shorten
the path and to accelerate the
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:speed that you get to the outcome
that you already know you want.
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:Less stuff, less reading, fewer
videos, shorter PDFs, no binder.
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:Let's just get to the outcome.
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:And so one of the things that I
tell my clients today when they say,
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:"Well, how long should the program be?
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:They're paying me $100,000.
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:I feel I should add this and throw
in that and give them all of this
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:stuff," I say, "You need to make
your program as short as possible
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:and as long as absolutely necessary."
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:That's it.
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:As short as possible, as short as
humanly possible, and as long as
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:necessary to give them the outcome.
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:So what does that mean?
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:That means we're giving them the minimum
amount to get the optimal result.
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:We're cutting out the nice-to-haves.
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:We're cutting out the, "Oh,
maybe you'll also run into this."
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:We're cutting out the appendices.
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:We're cutting out the, you
know, all of the side dishes
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:that we probably don't need.
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:We're doing the meat, we're doing the
potatoes, we're doing the outcome, and
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:we're doing it as fast as we possibly can.
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:Because I think executives and economic
buyers, they're no longer impressed
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:with, you know, it's a nine-month
program, there's 800 videos, you know,
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:everyone needs to read my 896-page book.
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:If you think about your fiduciary
responsibility, which is to shorten
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:the path and accelerate the speed
that they get there, every assignment,
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:every reading, every video that you
don't need lengthens the time that
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:they need to get to the outcome.
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:It does not shorten the time.
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:So for folks listening, if you
want to increase the value of your
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:program, don't ask, "What can I add?"
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:Ask, "What should I take out?
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:What can I remove?"
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:Just like in a, a race car.
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:You know, a race car you can
have two ways to win the race.
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:One is to put in a bigger engine,
two is to make the car lighter.
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:The, the best thing you can do is get a
bigger engine and make the car lighter so
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:that it's less mass going down the track.
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:Make your car lighter, and,
uh, don't worry about, putting
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:more junk in the trunk.
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:John: Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:For, for some reason, it's reminding me of
the time I was asked to give a two-minute
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:speech and decided in this micro
speech to take on the meaning of life.
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:a pretty rapid transformation
in a short space of time.
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:I'm not sure I achieved it, but,
my experience anyway, I think a
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:lot of speakers Do that with their
keynote content as well, what you're
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:saying about, um, not really getting
focused enough on the transformation,
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:And then so one of the things you say
in the book is about giving massive
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:value, but I think that, that is, that
is now giving this transformation,
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:David Newman: For sure.
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:For sure.
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:There was a compliment that I got from
a speech, and at first I thought it was
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:pretty insulting, but, but it turned out
to be a huge compliment in retrospect.
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:So here's what the person said.
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:It was a 45-minute breakout session.
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:A person comes up to me at the
end and says, "I got more value
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:in the first seven minutes from
what you shared than the entire...
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:all, all of yesterday's
sessions at this conference."
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:And I was like, "Seven minutes?
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:Seven...
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:I was just getting warmed
up in seven minutes.
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:Where were you for the other 38 minutes?
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:This was an awesome 45 minutes,
and you're saying, 'Hey, I got my
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:value in the first seven minutes.'"
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:But of course, in retrospect, it's like,
oh, that is, that is enormous compliment.
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:That's an enormous compliment.
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:And, how can we, how can we
front load the value, right?
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:If you're giving a 45-minute keynote,
I would challenge you, if they only
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:heard the first seven minutes, would
it, would it totally blow their minds?
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:Would it totally, "Oh my gosh,
this is what I came here for."
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:airport moment, meaning that if
I left right now for the airport,
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:this event would've been worthwhile.
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:So how much airport value can you put into
the first seven minutes or the first 10
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:minutes or the first 12 minutes of your
talk, where yes, you're gonna be awesome
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:for the remaining 30 minutes, but if
they just heard that first seven or 10
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:minutes, they would, they could get on
their airplane, go back home, and still
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:this event would've been a massive turning
point in their business or in their life.
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:Well, of course, with airport
value and airplane value,
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:I'm talking to the right guy.
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:John: Yeah.
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:Yeah, a little bit of history
with the, airlines, but,
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:David Newman: That's right.
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:John: curious, Mar- "Market Eminence,"
your, your more recent book, Am I
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:right in thinking it's more written
for like agencies and consultants,
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:but has value to, to others as well?
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:David Newman: Anyone who's in
the business of expertise, yes.
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:So you could be a CEO, a
founder, an independent expert,
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:a speaker, all of those folks
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:John: Yeah.
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:And definitely there, there were
bits I found very relevant as, as
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:a speaker and as a coach as well.
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:Um, and there were some other
bits I thought, oh, that may be
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:more for an agency than for me,
but it's still good to know.
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:Um, what are the, what are the elements
in there that you would encourage,
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:would put for speakers and coaches to,
to help them achieve market eminence?
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:David Newman: So the whole premise
of the book, the question that I set
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:out to answer is, what does it take
to get noticed in our crazy, busy,
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:befuddled, distracted, AI-driven world?
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:What does it take to get you noticed, your
company, your product, your service, your
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:charity, your cause, whatever it may be?
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:And the three macro-level answers
are, number one, visibility, because
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:no one buys expertise sight unseen.
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:No one buys speakers sight unseen.
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:So number one, we have to get seen.
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:Number two is there's a level of respect
that comes from audience members and
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:meeting planners and conference producers
and corporate executives that feel
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:you have X-ray vision into their soul.
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:So this is about knowing your audience
so well that when your, session
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:description, your keynote description,
what's on your website, what's on
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:your latest LinkedIn post, your latest
blog, your latest video, they encounter
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:that content and they say, "Oh my
gosh, this person wrote that for me.
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:This person is talking directly to me.
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:We were just talking about this problem.
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:We were just having a meeting about this.
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:We just had a board-level
discussion about how this problem
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:is such a big pain in our butts."
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:And you want to convey this sense
that you've installed video cameras in
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:their meeting rooms, you've installed
listening devices on their phones,
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:and you know exactly what they're
up against on a very anecdotal,
323
:plain kitchen table English basis.
324
:Because when they feel seen, when they
feel, when they can recognize themselves
325
:in your marketing, in the problems that
you're solving, in the way that you're
326
:talking about the conditions that most
of your clients and audiences find
327
:themselves in, there's a level of respect
that they say, "This guy gets it," right?
328
:"This guy gets it.
329
:This guy knows what our problem is.
330
:He knows what we're up against,
and he can probably fix it."
331
:So the second level is that,
that component of respect.
332
:The third level is brand preference.
333
:So brand preference is a combination of
positioning and differentiation so that
334
:you're communicating that it is risky,
dangerous, and dumb to hire anyone else.
335
:So let's say you're a leadership speaker.
336
:There's a million leadership speakers And
there are a handful that are, you know,
337
:visible, credible, have a body of work.
338
:There's a smaller handful that have that
level of respect and resonance, meaning
339
:I can see into your soul, I know what's
going on, I know what you're up against.
340
:And then there are the ones that
have a very specific point of view.
341
:There's ones that have a very
certain, belief system or philosophy
342
:or, lens onto the world that some
people are not gonna like, some
343
:people are not gonna resonate with.
344
:But the people that do resonate with
them resonate very, very deeply.
345
:So that level of brand preference is when,
number one, they've seen you, number two,
346
:you've communicated that you know what
they're going through, and your particular
347
:philosophy or approach or methodology or
perspective is, polarizing, opinionated.
348
:Uh, it is, uh...
349
:it cannot be replicated by AI because
it's based on your personal experiences,
350
:expertise, what you've seen, what you've
done, what you feel is right with the
351
:world, what you feel is wrong with the
world, uh, things that you're for, things
352
:that you're against, your personal biases,
opinions, recommendations, et cetera.
353
:And those people are
truly a category of one.
354
:Now, when I say category of one,
does that mean there, there's only
355
:one leadership speaker in the world
that's gonna be booked by everybody?
356
:No, of course not.
357
:Because remember what I just said about
divisive, opinionated recommendations,
358
:different lens, different perspective.
359
:Some people will resonate with that
and hire that person immediately
360
:because it's risky, dangerous,
and dumb to hire anyone else.
361
:Other people will run 180 degrees
away and say, "Oh my gosh, we would
362
:never wanna bring that person in.
363
:That person's a heretic.
364
:That person's a nut.
365
:We're not doing that.
366
:We're not going there.
367
:That's insane."
368
:And they will resonate with another
expert who has a different flavor
369
:of market eminence, and maybe
they're even polar opposites, right?
370
:So if you think about, think about all of
the different disciplines that a speaker
371
:might have, sales, marketing, customer
service, corporate culture, whatever.
372
:One-- say one person talks about
corporate culture and says, "It
373
:absolutely starts at the top.
374
:It starts with the CEO, it starts with
the C-suite at top, starts with the
375
:senior executives because the rank and
file people are not gonna follow or do
376
:anything that they don't see the top
people living, living those values first."
377
:Okay.
378
:That's-- And that's not really
divisive or opinionated.
379
:You'd have to add some
more things to that.
380
:But someone else says Oh my
gosh, starting at the top.
381
:That's insane.
382
:That's not how it works.
383
:It starts at the bottom.
384
:It starts at the bottom.
385
:We gotta get each individual
contributor excited about building
386
:a culture, having a, environment
of trust, having a collaborative
387
:and, and an innovative mindset.
388
:So I would never dream
of starting at the top.
389
:It always starts at the ground floor,
and then it starts to propagate upwards.
390
:Now, is one of them right?
391
:Is one of them wrong?
392
:I don't know.
393
:I don't know.
394
:But there's gonna be audiences, there's
gonna be economic buyers that resonate
395
:deeply with speaker number one and
would never hire speaker number two.
396
:There's other audiences and other
economic buyers that resonate just as
397
:deeply with speaker number two, and they
would never hire speaker number one.
398
:Here's what...
399
:Here's the person who's
left in the middle.
400
:Well, you know, corporate culture is
really important and, and leadership is
401
:a key component of culture, and culture
is a key component of leadership.
402
:And here's five leadership tips to
build your culture, and here's five
403
:culture tips to enhance your leadership.
404
:And it's just the same old lame-o
commoditized nonsense that people have
405
:been saying for the last 50 years.
406
:Nothing new, nothing original, nothing
risky, nothing bold, nothing brave.
407
:And that person falls
into the sea of sameness.
408
:That person is easily ignored.
409
:Even when they're hired, they're hired for
bare minimum fees because they're easily
410
:interchangeable with anybody else, right?
411
:Someone hires John Ball and then,
you know, the meeting is on March
412
:17th, and unfortunately, John
got horribly, horribly sick.
413
:They're not gonna say, "Well, hey, let's,
let's just bring in, Susie Creamcheese."
414
:They're gonna say, "John, we're
gonna reschedule the meeting.
415
:Can you make it on April 4th?"
416
:Because you need to be so important
and so unique and so valuable
417
:that they're not gonna hire
another speaker to fill your slot.
418
:They're gonna move their meeting
so you can still be their speaker.
419
:John: Yeah.
420
:And, and that, that's incredibly valuable.
421
:I think you've already answered
my question as to whether there
422
:is really space in the market
for the generic speaker who does
423
:equivocate somewhere in the middle.
424
:Not, not really.
425
:And yet, and yet I do encounter in,
in, in, in my coaching with, with other
426
:speakers many people who are, who are
genuinely afraid of taking those sort
427
:of contrarian positions and, you know,
maybe it's the fear of not being liked
428
:by some people or wanting to be, trying
to be liked by everyone, people-pleasing
429
:and all that sort of stuff.
430
:But I think probably can at least
appreciate that we need to do it.
431
:So, so I guess my question would
be: what are some of the ways...
432
:Uh, well, first, actually firstly, how
easy is it for somebody to differentiate,
433
:and what are some of the ways that
people can help to pull out some of
434
:these maybe more opinionated views
that might help them to stand out?
435
:David Newman: Sure.
436
:So the answer is, it
is, uh, it is easier...
437
:So here's my saying about this.
438
:It's easier than, uh, it looks, but
it's harder than you're making it.
439
:making it too hard.
440
:You're making it too hard.
441
:I think the biggest obstacle, the
reason that some people think this is
442
:really, really hard, is coming up with
a contrarian viewpoint, that's simple.
443
:You and I can do that
in 10 seconds, right?
444
:Leadership is important.
445
:Leadership is completely unimportant.
446
:That would be a contrarian viewpoint.
447
:Two things wrong with that to
that before you go and plaster
448
:that on your website, people.
449
:Number one, you have no idea what
that means because you haven't really
450
:processed it, you haven't come up
with a point of view or a belief
451
:system or a methodology that supports
that in some way, shape, or form.
452
:A- and, uh, obviously these contrarian
viewpoints, they are extreme, but
453
:they're extreme to make a point.
454
:They're extreme to get people
to think differently about
455
:the problem that they have.
456
:So that's problem number one is that you
haven't done the intellectual work of
457
:supporting that, uh, contrarian view.
458
:The second thing is what you point out.
459
:It's scary.
460
:It's scary.
461
:It's like, "Well, who am I gonna turn off?
462
:Who am I gonna push away?
463
:Who will never hire me?"
464
:And the way I would attack both of those
challenges is let's reverse engineer this.
465
:Let's number one, figure out who
you would never wanna be hired by,
466
:and let's just go piss them off
because they're not gonna buy anyway.
467
:These are all the nightmare
clients from hell.
468
:These are the audiences that don't
listen, don't want what you have, don't
469
:need it, don't want it, don't get it.
470
:So I'll give you an example.
471
:I was working with a speaker, this
was a couple years ago, and she was
472
:all about building a, a corporate
culture of entrepreneurship, right?
473
:Entrepreneurial thinking, when you
work in a big organization, right?
474
:Not a new concept, so
it's intrapreneurship.
475
:It's being an internal entrepreneur.
476
:And I said, "Shop this around with
a couple of clients and a couple
477
:of people that, friendly folks that
might be in a position to hire you."
478
:So she has one meeting with one particular
gentleman And she comes back, she goes,
479
:"Oh, David, this was a terrible idea.
480
:This guy hated my idea.
481
:He said, to pick something else.
482
:I have to go in a different direction.
483
:I'm rethinking my entire business.
484
:This is not something that
corporate America wants to buy."
485
:And I said, on.
486
:You, you had one conversation?"
487
:She says, "Yes."
488
:I said, "What did he say?"
489
:He said, "Corporate entrepreneurs,"
you know, innovative spirit,
490
:bold, decisive, right?
491
:He says to me, "That is not
what I want my employees to do.
492
:That is not what I want my team to do.
493
:You know what I want my team to do?
494
:I want my team to sit down, shut
up, and do what I tell them to do."
495
:A- and I said to her, "Okay.
496
:So let me repeat that back to you.
497
:This guy said he wants his
team to sit down, shut up, and
498
:do what he tells them to do.
499
:Do you think he'd be a
good client for you?"
500
:She says, "What?"
501
:I said, "Do you think
he'd be a good client?
502
:Would he be receptive to this
whole corporate intrapreneurship?"
503
:"No.
504
:Oh my God, he'd be a nightmare client.
505
:He'd, against everything I believe
in, everything I stand for,
506
:everything I've written my book about.
507
:He would be, he would be
the, the anti-client."
508
:And I was like, "Exactly.
509
:Uh, did he get upset?"
510
:"Yeah, he got very upset."
511
:"Did he say that, that..."
512
:"No, he said he would,
the last thing he wants."
513
:I said, "Great.
514
:So now you've know, you know that
you've turned off your enemy.
515
:You've turned off the enemy.
516
:So now your mission is find three more
executives who love this idea, who embrace
517
:this idea, who would warmly welcome you
in to come in and speak and train and
518
:coach and consult and help them build this
organization of corporate intrapreneurs."
519
:And I said, "You, you, you talked to
the enemy, and I love that you have an
520
:enemy, and I love that you kinda pissed
him off because he's not your buyer."
521
:So it's like, okay, let's
reverse engineer, right?
522
:So, so one of, my presentations, I have
a slide that has this, like, really
523
:angry old man face, and the headline of
the slide is, " Who are you disturbing?
524
:Who are you disturbing with your content?
525
:Who are you disturbing
with your keynote topic?"
526
:Right?
527
:Who are you pissing off?
528
:Who are you getting really mad and upset?
529
:Because that person, number one, they
would never buy from you, and I would
530
:say your homework and your assignment
from listening to this podcast right now
531
:with me and John Is go post something, go
share something, go write something that
532
:would piss that person off even more.
533
:Because the more that you push away the
clients and the audiences that you don't
534
:want, the more strongly you're gonna
attract all of the great fits that are
535
:waiting for you to show up to help them.
536
:John: Yeah.
537
:Yeah, I, I love that and would
probably even add to that.
538
:one of the things I had fed back to
me, by a prospect, had read one of my
539
:articles and got in touch wanting to,
wanting to work with me, was that he
540
:was, offended and upset by the article
that I wrote But he knew it was right.
541
:So it is sometimes even better.
542
:So sometimes you know it's okay to,
to be like that because you actually
543
:are provoking an emotional response
rather than just being the sort
544
:of, bland, you know, milquetoast
kind of responses that probably...
545
:Well, you see them all over
the LinkedIn feed, right?
546
:Like most of it is, is pretty much drivel.
547
:I'm curious to get your
take on, something here.
548
:What, in your opinion, is maybe, maybe the
number one or maybe at least one of the
549
:top reasons why speakers don't get booked?
550
:David Newman: Because they
are sharing how-to content.
551
:How-to content is done.
552
:How-to co- As of November 2022, when
ChatGPT became publicly available, how-to
553
:content, the world is now filled with
billions of terabytes of how-to content
554
:that is better, smarter, more accurate,
even though AI is still not very accurate,
555
:uh, more useful, more valuable than
what any human could ever put together.
556
:It can program, an iPhone app.
557
:It can build your corporate,
human resources handbook.
558
:AI can do everything
in the how-to category.
559
:Where humans and where human speakers have
an advantage that needs to be exploited
560
:in a very, very significant way, so please
start doing more of this immediately.
561
:Forget about the how-to content.
562
:That's done.
563
:That era is over.
564
:Humans, speakers, us, we need
to focus on how to think.
565
:How to think is a higher level, strategic
kind of content that is based on insight
566
:and experience and expertise and war
stories and battle scars and things
567
:you've seen and things you've done and
things you've learned, you personally.
568
:AI can't crank that out, at least not yet.
569
:So number one is move away from how
to and move towards how to think.
570
:Number two is content that shifts
beliefs So this is where you're
571
:separating the wheat from the chaff.
572
:This is where you're sharing what
to believe, what not to believe,
573
:separating the myths from the
truths or the myths from the
574
:half-truths, or the outdated truths.
575
:And again, this is also based
on your personal experience,
576
:the world according to you.
577
:You don't need to research this.
578
:You don't need footnotes.
579
:You don't need a bibliography, right?
580
:'Cause again, now we're in AI territory.
581
:We're not in what makes John Ball
uniquely John Ball, what makes
582
:David Newman uniquely David Newman.
583
:So second category is separating the
wheat from the chaff, the signal from
584
:the noise, belief shifting, uh, content.
585
:The third thing that speakers
need to get better at, I think the
586
:first two some of the more advanced
speakers are pretty good at.
587
:The third one, I think, is
uncharted territory for many of us.
588
:It is how to get ready for what's
coming next or where to focus to
589
:get ready for what's coming next.
590
:So we need to be a little
bit more of a trend spotter.
591
:We need to be a little bit more of a
future caster of figuring out where
592
:is this industry going, w- what's it
gonna look like three months or six
593
:months or 12 months down the road?
594
:How can we be the early warning system
for our clients and audiences, where
595
:we're telling them how to see around
corners, how to get ready, how not to
596
:get ambushed, sideswiped, or surprised,
and/or how to take advantage of emerging
597
:opportunities and new trends and
things that they should be aware of.
598
:Because I will tell you, what
every high-level executive really
599
:hates is they hate being surprised.
600
:They hate being ambushed.
601
:If, if they could've seen something
three or six months ago, if they
602
:could've seen something coming,
good or bad, and their team or their
603
:advisors failed to show them or point
this out, they get very, very upset.
604
:So they also value very, very much,
here's something to look out for.
605
:Here's something that's w- working
its way towards being obsolete.
606
:Here's a new opportunity that you need to
be one of the first ones to grab ahold of.
607
:So what can you do in your content?
608
:What can you do in your speech to do a
little trend spotting or future casting?
609
:And again, you don't need research.
610
:You don't need ChatGPT.
611
:This is the world according to you,
based on your work, based on what
612
:you're seeing, based on you being
an active catalyst in the industry
613
:and the environment that you're in.
614
:By the way, even if half of what you
predict is wrong, and it probably
615
:will be, you know, we're recording
this right now in February of:
616
:I can make 10 predictions right now.
617
:incredibly amazing.
618
:So powerful, this David Newman, man,
he's got a handle on what's coming next.
619
:Who in August of 2026 is gonna go back
and re-listen to this episode with
620
:a pen and paper and say, "You know,
Newman was wrong about number three.
621
:He was totally wrong about number seven.
622
:Number eight hasn't happened yet"?
623
:No one's gonna go back and,
and check your homework.
624
:So please be a future caster, be
a trend spotter, help people get
625
:ready for what's coming next.
626
:If you focus your entire speaking business
and your entire messaging and content and
627
:visibility and keynote and seminars and
everything on those three areas, number
628
:one, how to think, not how to; number
two, what to believe and what not to
629
:believe; number three, how to get ready
for what's coming next, watch what happens
630
:to your business in the next 90 days.
631
:You will be totally amazed.
632
:John: I think that's really valuable,
and that's definitely a different
633
:way of thinking, certainly many
speakers really who are looking, to,
634
:these sort of elements, particularly
635
:David Newman: That's right.
636
:John: And, and you're absolutely right
what you said, because if people did go
637
:back and check on people's predictions, we
would never listen to economists, right?
638
:We,
639
:David Newman: It's literally
wrong at least 50% of the time.
640
:John: Yeah.
641
:It's, it's, it's fair enough.
642
:I think it's very valuable.
643
:Um, so I, I'm taking from what you're
saying there that the, the speaking
644
:industry isn't going anywhere soon,
but you may have heard similar
645
:voices that I have sometimes sort
of predicting doom for the speaking
646
:industry that it's all gonna go under.
647
:Or what, what would be your take on that?
648
:David Newman: I think humans, for
the last 50,000 years, have really
649
:valued face-to-face, belly-to-belly,
around the campfire, breathing
650
:the same oxygen as each other.
651
:So will the type of speaking change?
652
:Will we all at some point be holographic
images walking around or, robots, with,
653
:permanent bodies and our AI organic brains
somehow downloaded into these AI robot...
654
:Maybe.
655
:Maybe.
656
:But I think for the foreseeable future,
speakers and experts who genuinely add
657
:value, change the conversation, shift the
frame around some of the problems that
658
:our clients and audiences are having,
those speakers will have completely
659
:unfair advantage in the marketplace.
660
:So I don't think speakers or speaking
is gonna be obsolete anytime soon.
661
:I do think speakers that are playing
it safe, speakers who are in the middle
662
:of the road, speakers who are sharing
information and not so much insight-
663
:Uh, those speakers are at peril.
664
:Those speakers are at peril.
665
:But again, so are those companies,
so are those business book authors.
666
:is moving away from commoditized,
easily AI replaced information.
667
:And what AI cannot replace, and again,
I say that with a caveat, not now,
668
:not today, is your personal expertise,
experience, battle scars, war stories.
669
:Um, I'll, I'll give you a little quick
example of this with my, second book,
670
:the, which is Do It Speaking book,
which was a traditional publisher.
671
:It was Harper Collins.
672
:I submit this, like, 50,000-word
manuscript and, my editor comes back
673
:to me and says, "David, we're gonna
need some footnotes and references."
674
:And I said, "Footnotes
and references for what?"
675
:She goes, "Well, you quote, there's
the Apple commercial about,:
676
:Steve Jobs said," right?
677
:All of these kinds of things.
678
:I'm just using Apple
examples for a minute.
679
:But she pointed out like three
or four areas of the book.
680
:And I said, "Well, number one,
that's, that's common knowledge.
681
:That doesn't really need a footnote."
682
:And she said, "Well, how about
some of your other data points?"
683
:I love that she calls them data points.
684
:I said, "There's no
data points in my book.
685
:This entire book, this 50,000 words
of the world according to Newman.
686
:This is the world according to..."
687
:I, I have no references.
688
:I'm not quoting other people other
than the:
689
:about 1984, with the sledgehammer
being thrown against the screen and...
690
:And what I said to her, I said,
"Show me one area of the book.
691
:Show me one specific passage
that you feel needs a footnote."
692
:And she, showed me lit- literally
one, and then I rewrote that passage
693
:so it no longer needed a footnote.
694
:But it's like, it's like everyone,
wants the, the research book, right?
695
:It's like, well, what are the notes?
696
:What are the references?
697
:What do you back that up with?
698
:Up here.
699
:I back this up with my brain, my
expertise, my experience, my past
700
:jobs, and my past lives, every expert
I've talked to, every client I've
701
:worked with, every podcast guest that
has shared their brilliance with me.
702
:what I'm saying is there's so much
pressure to, well, write the research
703
:report, write the book report,
have a long list of references and
704
:bibliography and citations You don't
need to do that anymore, my friends.
705
:It's 2026, AI can handle that.
706
:What the world is hungry for is the
kind of books that I write, which
707
:is the world according to me, right?
708
:And you need to write about and
speak about and keynote about
709
:the world according to you.
710
:Now, again, this is not to
say that it's self-centered.
711
:It's audience-centric.
712
:It is meant to, offer value, uh, help
people with thorny, difficult, challenging
713
:problems, but do that based on your own
expertise, experience, and what you've
714
:done and what you've seen and what
you've learned, no footnotes required.
715
:John: Yeah.
716
:Yeah.
717
:That's great.
718
:I'll ask one thing.
719
:I think, I think my listener, especially
my listeners who, who do know your work
720
:might be upset with me if I didn't ask
you at least one question about marketing.
721
:we have touched on those things as well,
and, and the, the positioning advice
722
:you've given of ways to think about your
speaking and everything, I think that's
723
:actually great marketing stuff as well.
724
:But for those speakers who, don't
really know where to be focusing with
725
:their marketing, with their promotion.
726
:David Newman: Yeah.
727
:John: Are there particular channels
or areas that, if someone comes
728
:to you and said, "No, I'm, I'm..."
729
:They're throwing all the spaghetti at
the wall, they're doing all of that, but
730
:they're not getting anywhere with it.
731
:What do you see maybe currently or
in general as being the most valuable
732
:way that a speaker particularly
could use their time to help promote
733
:themselves and, and their work?
734
:David Newman: I'm gonna answer with
the way my friend Cory Pearlman, who
735
:is a social media expert, answers.
736
:He says, "Everything I see online about
you," including social media, LinkedIn,
737
:Facebook, Instagram, "I need to see you
in action doing what you're selling."
738
:So if I go to your Instagram
right now, will I see pictures
739
:of you speaking on stages?
740
:your YouTube, will I see virtual
presentations, webinars, videos of
741
:you sharing your brilliance on video?
742
:Or will I see you, you know,
sharing funny memes about, "Hey,
743
:who's on their 17th cup of coffee?"
744
:will I see, "Hey, I'm
coaching this client"?
745
:And again, speakers can do
coaching, consulting, training,
746
:et cetera, but remember, buyers
are lazy, busy, and befuddled.
747
:So the context in which they see you in
a split second is the context in which
748
:they set you, and I've made this mistake.
749
:So the majority of my business
is not speaking right now.
750
:It is coaching and consulting
and training and so forth.
751
:Um, I used to have a lot of
speaking stuff, and so people
752
:think, "Oh, he just speaks.
753
:There's no way we can hire him."
754
:Which of course is ridiculous, 'cause I
make 80% or 90% of my revenue today with
755
:coaching and consulting and seminars
and private events for companies.
756
:Um, so in a boardroom
with, like, 12 people.
757
:I'm not on a big stage doing this.
758
:So is your social media and is your
website organized in such a way
759
:that the thing that you wanna do the
most of is also the most prominent?
760
:Is that what I'm gonna see
you writing about on LinkedIn?
761
:Is that what I'm gonna
see on your website?
762
:So even have a client right now who
does a lot of MC and hosting work,
763
:but he wants to do more keynoting.
764
:So you go to his homepage,
and yes, the homepage, his
765
:hero image is him on a stage.
766
:But then I go to the services page.
767
:First, and this is how subtle it
is, first menu item that drops
768
:down under services, event host.
769
:Second thing, MC.
770
:Third thing, keynotes.
771
:I said, "Didn't you tell me that
you wanna do more keynoting?"
772
:Right.
773
:"So why is keynoting a third-class
citizen on your services menu?"
774
:It's like, "Oh, but it's on my home..."
775
:But no, every signal is a signal, right?
776
:You're either moving towards
or you're moving away from.
777
:I wanna see keynotes first.
778
:I wanna see keynotes first, and
maybe if you're really brave,
779
:take off the MC menu item.
780
:Take off the event host menu item, right?
781
:Let that be on your secret menu
where if you're prospecting, maybe
782
:there's a secret unlinked page on
your website, draw people to that
783
:when you're after that kind of work.
784
:But when I go to your website,
I wanna see speaker, speaker,
785
:speaker, speaker if you wanna be a
speaker, speaker, speaker, speaker.
786
:And then the worst offense on this,
John, is when I go to someone's
787
:website and they say, "Oh, I'm
really doubling down on speaking.
788
:I really wanna be a speaker.
789
:I really wanna get more speaking revenue.
790
:I wanna build up my speaking
profit center this year."
791
:And I look at their, you know, menu
item on their, their menu, uh, bar
792
:rather, on their website, uh, home,
about, services, books, contact.
793
:There's no speaking menu.
794
:There is no top-level menu for the
main thing they want to be doing.
795
:So again, these things are simple, but
the devil is in fact in the details.
796
:And so because buyers are lazy, busy,
and befuddled, they're not gonna
797
:hunt around for your speaking, right?
798
:So they're not gonna hunt
around to find your video.
799
:They're not gonna...
800
:You need to put everything front
and center so that it is easily
801
:found, easily referenced, easily
shared, and, uh, the primary service
802
:that you wanna offer should be
showcased on all of your platforms
803
:John: Yeah.
804
:And that's, that's great advice, and
I think far too few people do it.
805
:And we was, with the new LinkedIn
algorithm, absolutely requires this
806
:sort of alignment between what you're
posting and what your profile says, and
807
:to not have too too many things in there
that are gonna confuse the algorithm.
808
:So I think, see LinkedIn doing it,
but probably seeing everywhere else
809
:is great advice generally as well.
810
:Sadly, we don't have time to go
into every aspect of your knowledge
811
:'cause you've just got so much of it.
812
:I feel like we,
813
:David Newman: I could
just read all four books
814
:John: Yeah.
815
:That
816
:David Newman: like a 14-hour episode.
817
:It would be amazing.
818
:John: I, I would love that.
819
:But, but sadly that's not what
we've, uh, set things up for today.
820
:I, I do think that even for this,
this is one of those episodes that
821
:I will be referring back to again
'cause you packed it with value.
822
:There, there were, stuff in there
today that wasn't even in your books
823
:that really sunk in for me today.
824
:So I found it very, very valuable, and
know my listener will have as well.
825
:Um, you've given us some tasks to
do, but for our listener, who I
826
:recommend check out your books because
I think your books are amazing.
827
:I, read "Market Eminence,"
"Do It Speaking."
828
:I will get round to your
other books as well.
829
:Um- What, what's the best way for,
uh, for my, for our listener to find
830
:out more about you and what you do?
831
:David Newman: Sure.
832
:So two easy places to go.
833
:Everything we talked about today
as far as "Market Eminence," you
834
:can simply go to marketeminence.com
835
:and you will get all the companion
resources, tools, downloads, training.
836
:You can also buy the book there,
but you don't have to buy the
837
:book if you don't want to.
838
:You can.
839
:Um, no problem, do it if you buy the book.
840
:But get the free resources in
either case, marketeminence.com,
841
:and then all the rest of my
empire is the main website, which
842
:is simply doittmarketing.com.
843
:So there's a blog there,
podcast, some other downloads.
844
:There's some free training.
845
:There's, Do It Marketing
Manifesto is there.
846
:But, uh, as far as the content
from today, I really recommend
847
:start with marketeminence.com.
848
:Grab all of those resources and that
will serve you really, really well.
849
:John: Absolutely.
850
:David, it's been such a pleasure
speaking to, you today and, I, I'm
851
:gonna have to go and absorb everything
we've talked about and, uh, and
852
:we'll be looking forward to sharing,
sharing this episode with my audience.
853
:But thank you once again for coming
on The Professional Speaking Show.
854
:David Newman: Thank you, John.
855
:This was tremendous fun.
856
:I appreciate you
857
:John: I really loved this chat
with David, and if, if it blew your
858
:brain, well, welcome to the club,
and that gives you some idea what
859
:it's like to read David's book.
860
:But you know what they say,
how do you eat an elephant?
861
:One bite at a time.
862
:The books may be dense with
information, and it can feel a bit
863
:like a fire hose coming at you, but
you can take them at your own pace.
864
:In fact, his books are incredibly
well-designed in such a way
865
:that it's very easy to do that.
866
:Learn something and implement it.
867
:Learn something and implement it.
868
:It's a very practical way of doing it,
and even though it'll take you a while
869
:to learn everything and implement it
all, it will absolutely be worth it.
870
:I am currently listening to the audiobook
of David's Do It Marketing, and I will
871
:be moving on to Do It Sales as well.
872
:The books are incredibly good value.
873
:He gives you a ton of bonuses as well
on top of all that amazing information.
874
:Oh boy, you've gotta check it out.
875
:No doubt we will have David back
on the show sometime soon, but
876
:this was a spectacular episode,
one of my absolute favorites.
877
:Now, if positioning is something that
you're working on, and, uh, if you're
878
:wondering why the bookings aren't coming
through or why people don't seem to be
879
:connecting with what you're offering the
way you hoped they would, these could be
880
:signals that your positioning is not quite
right and isn't hitting the market the way
881
:you would hope it would, in which case you
may want to come along to a workshop that
882
:I'll be running at the end of this month.
883
:It'll be May the 27th.
884
:It's gonna be 1:30 Central European time,
:
885
:you're in the US, kind of late in the day
if you are on the other side of the world.
886
:But if you can't make it live
to the event, do join anyway.
887
:It's gonna be very low cost,
and I will make the replay
888
:available to anyone who wants it.
889
:We're gonna be diving deep into your
positioning, how to make it work best,
890
:connecting with the market in the right
way, and helping you be on track to be
891
:one of the must-book speakers rather
than just a nice-to-have speaker.
892
:If that sounds good to you, do
check out the link in the show
893
:notes and come and join us.
894
:Now, if you like the show, and I hope
you do, I hope you'll come back and
895
:join us, maybe even check out some of
our past episodes with amazing guests.
896
:But there is one thing you
can do that would really help.
897
:Now, if you're not already following the
show, or even, even if you are, please
898
:make sure you're following us on Spotify.
899
:Spotify is one of the main platforms
that actively recommend shows if
900
:it's receiving the right signals.
901
:So giving us a five-star review and a
follow on Spotify, as well as listening
902
:to some episodes there, will mean that
this show will go out to far more people.
903
:Right now the show's really
big on Apple Podcasts.
904
:I'd like it to be just as big, if
not bigger, on Spotify as well.
905
:So if you can do that,
that would be amazing.
906
:You'll have my eternal
undying love for doing so.
907
:Do join us for the positioning event.
908
:Wherever you're going, whatever you're
doing, have an amazing rest of your week.
909
:Go and do something worth speaking about.
910
:See you next time.
