Episode 290

How to Write a Business Book That Builds Authority | Ginny Carter

Do speakers need a book to get booked? No. Can a relevant book be a powerful authority asset, often called your best business card and a useful tool when negotiating speaking engagements? Hell yes.

In this bonus episode from the archives, John Ball speaks with ghostwriter and book coach Ginny Carter, author of Your Business, Your Book. Recorded in early 2022, the conversation is still useful for speakers and other experts considering a business book.

They discuss how to decide what your book is for, when you’re ready to write it, how to keep it engaging and persuasive, and how to make it part of the marketing you already do. They also explore publishing choices, formats, editing, and the role podcasts can play in helping authors share their expertise.

At the end, John shares the fast book strategy behind his forthcoming book, Serious About Speaking: The Business of Becoming Known, Booked & Paid. He explains how he’s using his existing LinkedIn newsletter articles, podcast transcripts and programme materials to build a useful, coherent book, with AI helping to compile and organise the material. It isn’t a case of asking AI to write a book and publishing the result: the process includes reviewing, editing and shaping the work.

John will release a wait list for Serious About Speaking with next week’s episode.

Ginny Carter’s book, Your Business, Your Book, is available at all major retailers. Find Ginny and her work at ginnycarter.co.uk.

Frequently asked questions

Do speakers need a book to get booked?

No. You can build a professional speaking career without writing a book. A book is an asset, not a requirement.

How can a book help a speaker get booked?

A relevant book can demonstrate your expertise, strengthen your authority and give event organisers a tangible sense of your ideas. It can also be a useful negotiating tool when discussing a speaking engagement, if it connects to the talk, audience and client’s needs.

Is a book really a speaker’s best business card?

It can be. A book gives potential clients a deeper view of your expertise than a business card can. The more clearly the book relates to your speaking work, the more useful it is as an authority asset.

When should an expert write a business book?

When they have enough experience, examples and insight to offer readers, and they know what they want the book to achieve. Ginny advises getting clear on the book’s purpose before making decisions about its content or publishing route.

How can speakers market a book without creating more work?

Ginny recommends incorporating the book into marketing that’s already working, such as a podcast, blog or existing online presence, rather than automatically building separate channels just for the book.

What makes a business book persuasive and readable?

Stories, examples and the author’s personality help keep readers engaged. Ginny also discusses a “why, what, how, what if” structure: explain why the topic matters, what it is, how to act on it, and what could happen as a result.

What is John Ball’s fast book strategy?

John is developing Serious About Speaking from existing material, including LinkedIn newsletter articles, podcast transcripts and programme resources. AI helps compile and organise relevant content; John then reviews, edits and shapes it into a coherent book.

Chapters

Times are approximate. Check against the final published audio/video before posting.

  • 00:00 Why this archive conversation is being released now
  • 02:40 Introducing Ginny Carter and the value of an engaging business book
  • 05:20 Why people struggle to start and finish books
  • 07:40 Making book marketing part of your existing marketing
  • 10:00 How books build authority
  • 12:20 Is it the right time to write your book?
  • 14:00 Book as an asset: cache, not cash
  • 19:00 What writing a book can do for your expertise and business
  • 24:00 What makes a business book effective?
  • 27:00 Traditional publishing and self-publishing
  • 29:00 Book design, production and first impressions
  • 32:00 Print, ebook and audiobook formats
  • 34:00 Podcasts as a way to reach relevant audiences
  • 35:00 Writing persuasively: the “why, what, how, what if” structure
  • 38:00 Editing, grammar and reader trust
  • 42:00 How authors can use podcasts
  • 44:00 Ginny’s book recommendations
  • 47:30 John’s fast book strategy and Serious About Speaking

Recommended next episode

Why Great Speakers Are Often Broke

Listen next for a related conversation about the business skills and assets speakers need alongside their stage craft: https://player.captivate.fm/episode/0f56e6d2-15f1-4c21-8a5b-96d44ab8c67b/

Upcoming episode

Next week: Why Aren’t You Getting Booked as a Speaker? We’ll look at what may be standing between your expertise and the bookings you want.

Connect with John:

Discover the bottlenecks in your speaking business with the Applause Vs Invoice Quiz

For speaking/podcast enquiries or to connect with me directly, you can email john@presentinfluence.com or find me on LinkedIn

You can find all our clips, episodes and more on the Present Influence YouTube channel

If you know a speaker who would enjoy this show, let them know. Thanks for listening.

Transcript
John:

Welcome to a bonus episode of Professional Speaking,

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known, booked, and paid.

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This conversation with ghost writer

and book coach Ginny Carter has

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unfortunately been sitting in my archives

for longer than I would've preferred.

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Now, I'm not sure why it never went out.

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I think maybe I thought I had

published it and it got overlooked,

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and I could only apologise to

Ginny and to you for that as well.

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But I'm glad to bring it to you now

because I really loved Ginny's book.

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It's called Your Business,

Your Book, and she was terrific

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company, a great guest as well.

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So it is still worth listening

in to this episode.

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You will see if you're watching

this on YouTube, that, um, this was

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from early 2022, which is why I look

considerably less grey in that video.

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Also was a time when I was using

virtual background, and this show

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was more focused on influence

and persuasion than professional

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speaking, all of those things.

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But I have edited the show as

best I could to make up for and

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taken out bits that just perhaps

weren't so relevant right now.

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So a quick thank you as well to

everyone who's listening in the USA,

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Singapore, Japan, Canada, Australia,

and of course the UK and across Europe.

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These are where most of the

show's downloads come from.

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And thank you.

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If you're in the places and listening

in, we're, I'm delighted that

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you're here and if you are somewhere

else listening in, let me know.

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I would love to know which

other countries are listening

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are watching the show as well.

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The question this episode asks is, do

speakers need a book to get booked?

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Save you some time.

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The answer is no.

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But is a relevant book, a great

authority asset for a speaker?

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Hell yes.

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It's often being called the best

business card, and it can be even

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a useful negotiating tool when

you're discussing speaking contracts

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as long as the book connects with

the talk and the client's needs.

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Now, Ginny and I talk about how to know

when you are ready to write a book,

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how to make it persuasive and readable,

what the book needs to be about as well.

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You need to know that upfront and

how to use it in your business.

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Please do stick around to the

end because I'll tell you why.

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I'm gonna share with you the fast book

strategy that I'm now using for my own

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book, which is coming up very soon.

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It's called Serious About

Speaking the Business of

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Becoming Known, Booked and Paid.

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This is building from what that

I've already created rather than

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starting with a blank page or

just telling AI to write me a book.

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So that's all coming at

the end of the episode.

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I'll catch up with you back then.

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Right now.

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Let's get into it.

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Welcome to the show, and today we

are going to be talking about a topic

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that really anybody who wants to be

thinking about building authority and

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extending their influence should be

considering, which is about having

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your own professional business book.

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Now I have read a fair few books on this

topic, and I'm getting today to chat

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to the author of one of my favourite

books that I've read on this topic.

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Ginny Carter, welcome to the show.

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Ginny Carter: Thank you

very much for having me.

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John: I've been so looking forward

to speaking to you, and the book has

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been an absolute delight to read.

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And one of the things I really liked

about it is that it is engaging, it's

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funny, and there's a lot of, you come

through in the book as well there.

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I feel like there were times

where we don't always hear the

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author's voice, especially in

NonFiction's books and yours.

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We, we do, it's light, it's easy to

absorb and really nicely structured.

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So I had a lot, I've had a lot of

fun reading the book and now I've

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decided that I also wanted to have

that on audio book format as well.

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So I only had to congratulate

you on a job well.

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Ginny Carter: Oh, thank you.

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That's just really nice to hear.

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And I did actually put a lot of effort

into making the book a good read as well.

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'cause I think a lot of how to guide can

end up reading a bit like instruction

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manuals, if, if you're not careful.

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We don't, I think we always, as

authors, we always have to remember

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that our readers don't always anything,

they don't owe us our attention.

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And, so we have to keep earning it.

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We have to keep them engaged.

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And I really think it's important

that when people write a book that

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their invoice comes through as well.

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it's a really important aspect of it

because when you're writing a, a business

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book, one of the, the outcomes that

most people want for it is to attract

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new business, to attract new clients,

to new people, to work with them.

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And of course, if they don't get a,

a good idea of who you're from, your

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book, you are losing an opportunity

to, put yourself in front of people.

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John: frankly, if a book's too dry,

and I have read a few of these sort

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of writing books that are very dry,

very like teaching manual kind of

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books with very little personalities

or data, information driven stuff.

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it's hard going.

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if you really want the

information, you'll go through it.

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But if you can actually make it more of

a, I like to use the word edutainment.

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I know more people are, familiar

with that expression now.

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I dunno if it's been officially made

a word yet, but a bit more educating

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and entertaining at the same time.

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it's a much nicer experience, and

also is gonna be more memorable

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for the reader and the learner.

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I feel that having read your book,

there's a lot of inspiration in there for

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everybody who would want to be thinking

about having a, a nonfiction book.

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And it is one of those things

that I know I've been there

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myself where everybody says it.

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I think especially in business, if you

are, a coach, a speaker, a trainer,

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if you're in personal professional

development or consultancy in any

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way, you've at least said about

having a book and thought about it.

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And yet, probably very few people

actually follow through and do that.

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So why is it so many people talk

about having a book, but so few

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people actually go ahead and do it.

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Ginny Carter: Yeah, I've heard writing

a book described as the hardest

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thing you can do is sitting down.

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That's a really good way of describing it.

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I wish I'd thought of that.

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It wasn't me.

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I, I think it's because writing

involves thinking and thinking

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is hard work and writing a book

involves prolonged thinking.

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and it can be, it can evolve a

lot of self-reflection as well.

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you gotta really dig into what you

and try and write about it in a way

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that other people will understand.

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I think so much of the value in writing

a book actually comes from the way that

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you structure your own expertise to

you come up with frameworks, theories,

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there's all sorts of things that you can

create aside from the actual book itself

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in terms of how you go about writing it.

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and I guess I know I do speak

to a lot of people who want to

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write a book, as you can imagine.

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and some of started, some of

them have got to chapter to

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and just can't get any further.

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and the reasons are that, people,

it is really hard work and it's

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just not something for everyone.

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And that's fine because I don't

think everyone needs to a book.

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but I think if you do want to

write one, it would be a shame.

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it'd be a shame to let

lack motivation stop you.

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And I think also actually another reason

that people find it hard to write a book

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is that they don't really fully understand

why they want to do it in the first place.

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So as they come across any problems,

get too busy or whatever, if you

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don't really know your why, it's

easy to just let things get in the

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way and slowly it all just drift

away and other things take over.

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John: you do a great job of helping people

who are wanting to write the book and get

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some ideas and structure and thoughts.

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and there were, from having read your

book, there are three key parts of it.

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One of it is the sort getting

started and the inspiration.

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The other is the, the know, the writing

process, making sure have everything in

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and structured and things in a nice way.

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And the other part then is the

marketing bit that comes afterwards.

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So there, there's those

three main elements.

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And I wonder if also that might be one

things that sometimes puts people off

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when they realise that writing the book

is really just one part of a big process.

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Ginny Carter: Yeah.

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yes, that's right.

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And and actually one of the great

things about my work as a ghost

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writer book coach, is that I

don't have to do the marketing.

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It's great.

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I just have from, I just

have to create the book.

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But when it came to my own book,

of course, and, this wasn't enough.

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And, and I think talking about our

expertise and our books is something

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that can, feel uncomfortable for people.

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one of the things I think is really nice

about having a book is that actually what

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you're doing is talking about your book

and you're not talking about yourself.

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So if you go on a podcast, for

example, to talk about your book,

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you don't have to make you.

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You can make it just

about what you've written.

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So it makes it a little

bit one step removed.

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It doesn't feel quite so self-promotional

and icky for some people to.

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John: Oh yeah.

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I hadn't really, I hadn't

really ever thought about it.

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I quite like that.

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Yeah.

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okay.

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It's all about one, one step

removed, a little bit of

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detachment, a little less personal.

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It's almost like going on stage,

playing a character rather than

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going on stage as yourself.

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Ginny Carter: Yeah, I guess so.

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Yeah, I guess in a way, and I

think also a lot of people get put

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off by the marketing because they

think it has to be the marketing.

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Their book is something that's completely

out outside of all of the other

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marketing they do for their business.

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But the fact is, if you are a speaker

or coach consultant or someone,

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you, you're gonna have marketing that

you already do to promote your work.

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And I, I, what I always say

is, just add the book into it.

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Really, it doesn't need, you don't

need to create a new website for the

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book or a new Twitter account or,

that's just gonna be one more job

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John: Yeah.

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Ginny Carter: in your endless to-do list.

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So to maintain, do what, look at what

works for you, whether it be your

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blog, podcast, whatever, whatever,

whatever marketing you do that's

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working for you, use that for your book.

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And actually, when you think a bit like

that, then becomes a bit less daunting.

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John: Ho, hopefully, right?

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I, I was lucky enough to have Chris

Ducker agreed to be on my show recently.

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I dunno if Chris, but he's a

pretty well known entrepreneur.

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A and he's, certainly right now, one of

my key business mentors who I've been

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learning so much from, and I asked him

what has been, all the things that he

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does with a podcast and public speaking

events various different activities,

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what has had their biggest impact

on his own influence and authority.

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He said, without a

doubt, it was his books.

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that has been the main thing for you and

me to ask you as someone who is on both

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sides of this, why you think that is?

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Ginny Carter: I think

there's various reasons.

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I think we this huge respect for

books that we're brought up with

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from our earliest days at school.

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that's one of the first things we do

is to learn how to read from books.

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And I remember as a child, being

told the books were valuable and that

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you shouldn't mess around with them.

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I'm sure all kids are, told by

their teachers and their parents,

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they must look after their books.

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And, so I think we're brought up to have

this respect for books, that kind of

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is a, that's just a timeless reality.

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but also I think there's

something hugely impressive in

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somebody who's written a book.

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I mean, people have respect for

authors because they know how hard

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it is to do, which of course goes

back to saying before, doesn't it?

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About why it's so hard to write a book.

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So we are always impressed by people

who've done something that's difficult.

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and I think the fact that you are

able to fill a book with what you

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know is, impressive in its own right,

because not everybody could do that.

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Not everybody could write 40,

50,000 words their expertise in a

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way that's helping other people.

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so I think Books have this sort

mythical appeal, and they're very,

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but there are very sound and solid

reasons why they are so impressive.

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and I think all of that goes into

why people, why are so influential.

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John: Yeah.

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other than that, that's key.

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And in, in the earlier days of this

show, I had a long chat with Daniel

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Priestley, who I know that you know,

because mentioned him in your book.

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and, and Daniel said on that show

something I said a number of times

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there, and he's one of the people

who, inspired me to write a book as

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well, is that, the, the book that will

have the biggest impact on your life

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is the one that you write yourself.

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I might be paraphrasing a bit there, but

it's along those sorts of genuinely think

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he's right, but people who I have come

on the show who talk about having written

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their books or the importance of will

often say things like, it's the, it, it's

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the best business card you could have.

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It's the thing that will get higher

rates or more speaker bookings.

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And then this is something that you

talk about quite a lot in the book.

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one of the things you're saying about the

difference between, so I think there's

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a story in there about someone going to

an event, and I think this is maybe a, a

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hypothetical, I'm not sure, but so someone

going to an event and seeing somebody

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on the stage I'm wondering, I know all

that, or maybe I know more than them, but

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how come they're up on the stage and then

out and you see their book and you think,

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ah, that's why they're up on the stage.

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So this is a significantly important

thing to have in your business arsenal.

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I would say, as part of your business.

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But it may not always be, and this

is something I ask Chris about, but

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it may not always be that now is the

right time for your business book.

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so let's have a bit of a chat about

how, just how important business books

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are for people, and when is the right

time to write your business book.

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Ginny Carter: Yeah, well,

that's a good question.

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I think, some people make a mistake

of writing a book before they've

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really had enough experience in what

they do, because they know it's this

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thing that you're supposed to have.

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And, and sometimes I get approached by

people who just started working as a X,

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Y, Z and want to write a book about it.

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and they probably do know a fair

about their area, but they don't

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really have all the case studies

and the experience and the stories.

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So stories are just so important, when,

when you're writing a book, because they

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bring it to life in many different ways.

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But I think most powerful sometimes

are the stories of your own experience

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work, because that's kind of, like

proof that you, you know, that

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you are a success in what you do.

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So I think, the ride time is the

time when you feel that you've got

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enough credible material, for a book.

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I also think, when you're just

starting out, you're probably

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better off focusing on other things.

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getting your website up and running your

social media, developing an email list or

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whatever, you know, whatever you, whatever

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John: Get some income right?

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Ginny Carter: know, getting it.

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Yeah, general, I mean, you know, you

won't generate income from a book for

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time because it takes a long write it,

then it takes a while to publish it.

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it's a long term.

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Yeah, it's a long term project, as you

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John: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Chris, Chris said something along the

lines of, you know what, imagining

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you got your, you got your book or, or

your podcast, whatever it is that you

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do something like that and you bring

people into your ecosystem with that.

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But you, that's been the first thing

so what else have you got for them?

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Nothing.

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If that, if, if that's where you started,

haven't got anywhere else for them to go.

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So maybe it's not the best place to start.

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unless, unless perhaps you're planning

to become a business author and

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that's, that's what you want to do.

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I mean, I, I guess you

could go in that direction.

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I'm not all together.

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Sure.

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Why you would though.

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Ginny Carter: Yeah, I mean, you, most,

most business stores don't make money

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from selling copies of their book.

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They make money, by through what

the book gives them, through the

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way it raises their status, their

profile, gets them found as well.

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I mean, I've, I've had people find me

because they did a search on Amazon

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for how to write a business book

and came up with my book and then

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read it and, and then came to me for

help with writing their own book.

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it's another place, you know,

another place for you to be found.

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But yeah, I mean, you, I think you do

have to have something behind before

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you, before you write the book about it.

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somebody wants put it to me as like, it's

for the, you for the cache, not the cash,

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which I

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John: That's clever.

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Ginny Carter: of describing it.

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John: Yeah.

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I, I I like that.

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That's, that's a good way

to be thinking about it.

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and, you know, kind harking back to stuff

I, I talked about Chris a bit, but, this

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is one of those things that often people

will try and run before they can walk,

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and and get to the high level stuff

they've got the foundational things.

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And, and yet the importance, and I've

learned this as an entrepreneur, as a

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business owner, the importance of those

foundational things is so easily missed

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that you can't skip all those levels.

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You really do have to build up

to them and build ecosystem.

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I think, again, this is something

you do talk about book about

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saying how important it is to build

things up one level at a time,

308

:

and do it over time rather than

try and have everything at once.

309

:

Especially when it comes to like trying to

be on social media platforms and all this.

310

:

I wrote, I always wrote a blog article

not that long ago about, about all this

311

:

stuff of, of somebody who contacted

me on LinkedIn saying, you know,

312

:

I'm really struggling with this.

313

:

I'm trying to, I'm do this.

314

:

I've just started my second podcast.

315

:

I'm trying to be on all these platforms,

trying to do all these live events.

316

:

Like, what the hell are

you trying that for?

317

:

Ginny Carter: how anyone with one podcast.

318

:

John: No, I tried it.

319

:

It's a bad idea.

320

:

It's a bad idea.

321

:

unless you've got someone else to take

care of all these things like this,

322

:

this is a certainly important thing.

323

:

and if have, for example, with the book,

if have somebody like you supporting

324

:

in writing a book or, or maybe even

helping to ghost write the book, then

325

:

yeah, maybe you can do that and you're

probably gonna get some good advice

326

:

about the right way to get started.

327

:

If have a team in your

business who can help you to be

328

:

everywhere and do all this stuff.

329

:

So all have to do is turn up

and deliver the magic, then yeah,

330

:

you can probably do all of that.

331

:

But if you are it all yourself,

like most entrepreneurs are when,

332

:

especially when they're getting started

off, they might have one assistant.

333

:

If they're lucky, it's not gonna happen.

334

:

You just have to be a bit

more realistic about all this.

335

:

Ginny Carter: Yes.

336

:

Exactly.

337

:

Exactly.

338

:

And I think prioritising is

where, what it all comes down to.

339

:

and it's the same when you're promoting

and marketing your book as well.

340

:

I mean, you can, I, I always say

pick a couple of couple of key things

341

:

you're gonna do, you know, two social

media platforms or maybe, an email

342

:

list or maybe a podcast or what,

you know, whatever works for you.

343

:

And just really kind of narrow

it down to, to the key areas

344

:

that are gonna make a difference.

345

:

and I, but I do at the same

time, think it's kind of nice to

346

:

try the odd wild card as well.

347

:

You know, if you, don't, normally try

something, maybe you get the opportunity

348

:

to give a talk and it's not something

you normally do that it's often

349

:

worth trying these things, isn't it?

350

:

'cause you, you never really

know what's gonna work.

351

:

but, but generally speaking, yeah.

352

:

Make, make your, make your

priorities and stick to them.

353

:

John: I think, you may, may agree with

this, think, from an entrepreneurial

354

:

point of view, one of the things that

I maybe took far too long to realise,

355

:

but certainly have learned now, is that

your, where you invest your time and your

356

:

activity is important as where you invest

your money into your business as well.

357

:

And so you should probably view it in

that sort of respect as view everything

358

:

put in time, energy, money into your

business as something that you need to

359

:

get a return investment for, or that

you should at least be aiming for that.

360

:

And if you don't see that these

things are gonna bring you a return

361

:

on your investment, then you should

be re reevaluating where you're

362

:

spending your time and, and what,

what you're actually working on.

363

:

Ginny Carter: Yes, exactly.

364

:

And time is money as they say.

365

:

And I think one of the, the great

things about writing a book is

366

:

yes, it does take a lot of time,

but actually you do get something

367

:

out of it while you are doing it.

368

:

So you start to get your

return on the investment in the

369

:

process of writing your book.

370

:

'cause you're starting to think about

what you in, in a completely new way.

371

:

and also actually I think one of the nice

things that I know some speakers have told

372

:

me about writing a book is that it gives

you new ways of talking about what you do.

373

:

Because the, the very act of writing

a book about it gives you kind of

374

:

just words to use that might not have

come if had to have actually written

375

:

them down and try to find ways to put

across what you know in a way that's,

376

:

as you say, edutaining, if that's,

377

:

John: doesn't trip off

the tongue well, does it?

378

:

But it does express, it does

express that mixture of education

379

:

entertainment quite well.

380

:

maybe, maybe we'll get more comfortable

with that word if we keep using it.

381

:

Who knows?

382

:

but yeah, I, I, I do,

I do agree, definitely.

383

:

and I know my own process of

having now written a book, which

384

:

is currently going through, I,

I'm in an editing process with it.

385

:

Ginny Carter: congratulations.

386

:

You've got, you've got

further went along then.

387

:

Have you found it?

388

:

John: you know, when I, when I

spoke to people like Daniel Priestly

389

:

and Mike Michalowicz, who both had

very successful books, I was, I was

390

:

feeling very embarrassed about never

having, I of those people who had

391

:

started several business books and

had never actually writing one.

392

:

And, and again, you talk that, as to

people losing steam partway through,

393

:

and right way, for me it was because, I

was being very perfectionistic about it.

394

:

and one book that I was trying to

write was probably three books that

395

:

I was trying to write as one book.

396

:

And, and the task of trying to

do all that research and putting

397

:

all together, I built the Mount.

398

:

I, you know, I stacked the mount in

too high that I was really probably

399

:

never going to reach the top of it.

400

:

And so now I feel that now I've done this,

I can go, probably go and revisit some of

401

:

those things in the future and come it.

402

:

So it's not time wasted necessarily.

403

:

but I'm, I can be a bit more, let's

just done, get it, get it written,

404

:

on the research, do all the stuff.

405

:

and I know also what it

takes now to actually follow

406

:

through get a book completed.

407

:

And whilst that feels like an, an

achievement in itself, I would say

408

:

on top of that, which I, I, I know

mentioned is, it gave me more structure

409

:

for my course, my own programme.

410

:

It's given me more, maybe a bit

more outlining and guidance for my

411

:

own coaching, working with people

in terms of how they can leverage

412

:

podcasting and improve their own

authority and influencing the world of

413

:

so, you know, there, there is a lot

that it's given back to me as well.

414

:

But yeah, following on from what you said.

415

:

Ginny Carter: And, that, that thing you

talked about, about being perfectionist

416

:

and never really wanting to, to the

n that that is a very common thing.

417

:

and, I this isn't something

I fully appreciated until I

418

:

wrote my own book actually.

419

:

I'd often have clients of got

all nervous towards the end of the

420

:

process about publishing it, and I

could never really understand it.

421

:

'cause it always seemed, I thought,

well, this looks great and you've

422

:

got loads of really good ideas

and lots of amazing content.

423

:

Why wouldn't you, you know, why would

you be feeling worried about insecure?

424

:

and then when it came to the point

where I was gonna press publish my

425

:

o book, I was like, oh, then I

don't think I can do this well.

426

:

and, and actually what I found really

helpful there was to, use some beta

427

:

readers who, who just gave me feedback

on it because, not only obviously did

428

:

that gimme me some helpful information

to, to improve but also it was

429

:

bit like a soft publish in a way.

430

:

It was like I sent it out into the

world to, few trusted people to look.

431

:

And that gave me, that was a bit of a

kind of trial dry run, I suppose for,

432

:

for actually publishing it properly.

433

:

And when I got feedback, that was largely

positive, a few comments here and there

434

:

that things I could improve and I, I put

them in I just felt so much more relaxed

435

:

about publishing it and going public with

it, or it was amazing what the difference

436

:

so, yeah, that's something

people could think about.

437

:

John: I, I, I am the kind of person

that I don't necessarily people

438

:

reading stuff that's in draught

439

:

Ginny Carter: he does.

440

:

John: and, and like is I, I've put

together a group of beta readers

441

:

for, for the book, but, they're not

getting it until I've gone through

442

:

that process and, and that's not been

happening quite as quick as I'd like.

443

:

So I know it's something I

have to put my foot down on.

444

:

so I am doing and I'm ti I'm tying

myself to the must I I'm giving myself

445

:

a a, a Ulysses contract on this.

446

:

And so I, I actually allowed myself

to be interviewed by another podcaster

447

:

about which meant I had to send him

the first very clear, this is a draught

448

:

of the book, not the first draught, but

it is a, an early draught of the book.

449

:

but it was great being

interviewed about it.

450

:

It was wonderful to hear he liked the

book and got a lot of value from it.

451

:

And I thought, oh, actually really

am enjoying talking about it.

452

:

you know, already taken myself after

that, thing of, nobody's seen it yet, and

453

:

no, I dunno if anyone's gonna like it.

454

:

I know one person who reviews a lot of

these kinds of books really likes it.

455

:

And so I thought that's

some good encouragement.

456

:

so I'm, I'm feeling ready.

457

:

And you know, one of the things that

you talk about is making sure that

458

:

your book is for somebody, not just

some self-indulgent, this is all I know

459

:

about and all I like, I like talking

about, but it's actually serving a

460

:

purpose for a specific a lot of books

get written that nothing really happens

461

:

with, and they don't really go anywhere.

462

:

And, and I'm just wondering, you know,

I, I certainly wanna make sure my book

463

:

isn't gonna be one of those, but why do

you and what should be done about it?

464

:

Ginny Carter: Well, I

guess there's two things.

465

:

There's, there's, whether it was the

right book in the first place and,

466

:

how, how successful the author was

with promoting it and marketing it.

467

:

So, I mean, I, I speak to people a

lot who have written the wrong book

468

:

and, and it's really heartbreaking.

469

:

I, I just really feel for them because

the time and effort they put into

470

:

it and they can't understand why

it's not doing anything for them.

471

:

And when I ask 'em all, well,

he's it for, and, you know, what

472

:

did you want to achieve with it?

473

:

And, and, what's, what's the

kind of main message in it?

474

:

And, you know, all these big strategic

questions that are so important

475

:

to get right at the beginning.

476

:

and they, they, they haven't

really kind of thought it through.

477

:

They just started writing it,

putting everything they know in a

478

:

book and, and that isn't necessarily

a people are going to want to read.

479

:

so that's one aspect of it.

480

:

And then the other is, of course,

marketing and, and, you do have

481

:

to put, put their effort in.

482

:

but I would say as well that, I

think we get overly obsessed with

483

:

sales figures, with business books

in particular, self-help guides, you

484

:

know, books that are, are designed to

promote the business of, of the author.

485

:

You know, that's to designed to raise

their profile and get their message

486

:

out, to a wider range of people.

487

:

And I think, this is kind of

comes from various things.

488

:

I mean, in the traditional

publishing world, of course,

489

:

book sales are very important.

490

:

'cause that's how publishers make

their money by selling lots of books.

491

:

And so that's the model of publishing

that many first are most familiar with.

492

:

and so they're used to seeing like

bestseller lists, you know, New York

493

:

Times bestseller, you know, we've

heard all, all this sort of stuff.

494

:

Or you go into, you know,

bookstore and they've got 10 top

495

:

sellers and that kind of thing.

496

:

So they think that their book's

gotta somehow be a, a top seller.

497

:

same with best sellers, you

know, a, a category one bestseller

498

:

or rankings of sales and so on.

499

:

And yeah, so of course having

a bestseller, wonderful.

500

:

I mean, nothing against bad at all.

501

:

and it's a great marketing in

itself, but the same time, you

502

:

can actually write a book that

does very well for you as an author

503

:

without selling thousands of copies.

504

:

And so when we talk about, a book

that doesn't really deliver or

505

:

doesn't go anywhere, or doesn't

sort of achieve the sales sometimes

506

:

that's actually not a big problem.

507

:

especially if you've given away

copies to people, as, as a sort of

508

:

business card, or, you know, you've

used it in, in ways that aren't

509

:

necessarily to do with selling copies.

510

:

Like might give a talk and sell

some copies there and a discount

511

:

or, or give some away and you're

still spreading your message, you're

512

:

still spreading your influence.

513

:

So try not to obsessed with it,

is what I say, Lee, there's other

514

:

ways of focusing your energy.

515

:

John: I do wonder, people will

probably be thinking about this,

516

:

which is why, why I want to ask it.

517

:

and it's something I've discussed with

people who have, otherwise other people

518

:

who have businesses where they're

helping people to write business books

519

:

and get stuff in terms of publishing,

whether there are still benefits with

520

:

going out and traditional publishing

or whether you generally put people

521

:

on the path of self-publishing.

522

:

Ginny Carter: Yeah.

523

:

Well, I mean, there are pros and

cons and, and this is something

524

:

that I, that I go into in the book.

525

:

I think the, the, the benefit of

a, a traditional publisher is that,

526

:

some people feel that there's a

lot more prestige attached to that.

527

:

And I think there is a, a certain element

of truth in that, because they are very

528

:

selective about books they take on.

529

:

Course, we've all read

rubbish books that have been

530

:

traditionally published, I'm sure.

531

:

And also, I mean, what I always say

to people is think of the, the, the,

532

:

the latest book that you read that you

really enjoyed, and then now 10 mahu

533

:

published it, I can guarantee be able

534

:

John: Probably no idea.

535

:

Yeah.

536

:

Ginny Carter: publishers haven't

generally built up really strong

537

:

brands actually in that way.

538

:

and there are a lot of difficulties

in becoming traditionally published.

539

:

And plus, you, you won't have control

over your book in the way that

540

:

you do if you publish it yourself.

541

:

you, might have to change

things about it that to make it

542

:

suitable for a wider audience.

543

:

And that might actually mean that

it's not as useful for you as a,

544

:

as a professional you, you're not

aiming the, the tight audience that

545

:

your business might be aimed at.

546

:

The aims of traditional publishers

are not always aligned with the

547

:

aims of, of the author, and that

that can be where the problem lies.

548

:

But I mean, nothing against, it's just,

just think carefully about whether

549

:

it's for you, self-publishing it,

it allows you that control, that you

550

:

don't get with traditional publishing.

551

:

But I think you do have to be very

careful that your book ends up looking

552

:

credible and, and professional, which

not all self published books too.

553

:

John: Yeah, there's some very, interesting

book covers around, that's for sure.

554

:

Ginny Carter: Yeah, people try to cut

555

:

corners, that that shows, doesn't it?

556

:

John: I've even, I've even seen clip art

used on, used on fairly recent business

557

:

books, and I believe anybody in the 21st

century is still using clip art images,

558

:

but they are.

559

:

Yeah, it's

560

:

Ginny Carter: think what is is

really hard if you're not a book

561

:

publishing professional, you

don't really understand books.

562

:

It's actually really hard

to see objectively that your

563

:

book doesn't look that great.

564

:

I, again, I've, I I, I talk with quite

a lot of people about when I, when I

565

:

finished working on their books with

them and we talk gonna publish it.

566

:

And I always try and steer them away

DIY approach as I call it, because

567

:

I, I've just seen some awful results.

568

:

And, and the thing is that the

authors think they look great,

569

:

but they just can't see it.

570

:

They can't see it.

571

:

They, they don't see it from the of

somebody who's gonna buy the book.

572

:

'cause they're so, they're

so wrapped up in the book.

573

:

It is just, they just, they

just can't be objective it.

574

:

John: Yeah.

575

:

Yeah.

576

:

I was chatting with one of my friends

yesterday about there being a big

577

:

difference between, a business logo

that someone's bought on Fiverr

578

:

and, and one that somebody's paid a

professional designer to, to do, or, or,

579

:

or a self one self done, one on Canva.

580

:

Even for somebody who doesn't, doesn't

really, doesn't really know what

581

:

they're doing with this kind of thing.

582

:

So, you know, there, there's a, unless

you've got a real dab hand that it is

583

:

gonna show, I think it's gonna show.

584

:

it is all that professional look.

585

:

I don't know, I mean, I, one

of my earliest jobs was working

586

:

in Foils bookshop in London,

587

:

Ginny Carter: you've had experience

from your Earth Days books.

588

:

John: definitely.

589

:

And, that was back when Foils was one big

shop in Chaing Cross, and, now it's like

590

:

multiple bookstores all over the place.

591

:

but there was definitely something,

and I think it's still with me, it's

592

:

this prestige factor of having a, book

on a shelf rather than perhaps a book

593

:

on Amazon or something like that.

594

:

But when you think about where the

sales are happening, I would imagine

595

:

that the of book sales are happening

online rather than in bookstores.

596

:

But I, I, I could be wrong about

that, but do have any into,

597

:

into book sales in that regard?

598

:

Ginny Carter: Yeah.

599

:

Well, I think that one of the things

we have to remember is that not only

600

:

are there a lot fewer bookstores than

there used to be, but also they're

601

:

not all full of books anymore.

602

:

I mean, they, there are cafes,

they're toys that, you know, gift.

603

:

and, and so the number of books

that a stalk and is it's, you

604

:

know, it's fairly limited really.

605

:

and then what they tend to find the

books they sell, if they don't sell

606

:

in six weeks, if they haven't got

good high enough numbers of sales,

607

:

they, they just get rid of them and

put something else in its place.

608

:

You really don't get

much time make an impact.

609

:

And I think it's, the business

book section of most books.

610

:

So it's, I I, I think it's a shame

because I think they, they could,

611

:

they could really expand it, I think.

612

:

And there's a almost scope to sell

more business books, but, but,

613

:

but it's usually fairly small.

614

:

So yeah, I mean, it, it's, it, I, I can't

give you exact figgins, but I, I know for

615

:

sure that you, you, you'll get a lot more

sales online, and I think that's where

616

:

most people will target their marketing

as well, quite sensibly because, if,

617

:

if you could just click a link and get

it to the way you can buy your book,

618

:

then why, why wouldn't you do that?

619

:

John: No, I, I think

format matters as well.

620

:

And, and, I was chatting with, another

friend yesterday who, who's written

621

:

several books and talking about audio

books, and I am a big audio book listener.

622

:

I listen maybe to at least

two audio books a week.

623

:

And right now yours is one of

the ones that I'm listening to.

624

:

but, I, you know, I, I love audio books,

and know most of the time know some of

625

:

them are terrible, but, but very few.

626

:

The majority are good.

627

:

so format is a really

important thing as well.

628

:

How much of a difference do you think

it makes and someone who has your

629

:

book on audio, on audio, electronic

and formats, how much difference does

630

:

it make in the format of the book?

631

:

Ginny Carter: Yeah, I think it's

really important to have your book

632

:

in all formats if you possibly can.

633

:

I mean, ebook, there's no reason

not to have an ebook anyway.

634

:

I mean, have it in and in, in the

various different that it needs to be in

635

:

across those different kinds of devices.

636

:

paperback is an obvious one.

637

:

I mean, paperback is where

the bulk of sales still are,

638

:

especially for nonfiction.

639

:

eBooks a, a, a big chunk

of it, but not as high.

640

:

And then audio is, is in huge growth,

because we're all listening to podcast

641

:

carts and we're, we're listening

to stuff on our phone, on the go,

642

:

in a way that we never used to.

643

:

so audiobook makes complete sense.

644

:

I mean, it is worth remembering.

645

:

There's small proportion of the

sales, even if it's so it might

646

:

not be as important from that

point of view, as the other format.

647

:

But then I think the way, the it is

you've only gotta have, you know, a very

648

:

small number of people, listen to your

audiobook and enjoy it, and then want

649

:

to work with you as a result, or ask you

to speak at their events or whatever.

650

:

And you've, you've gained your

return on investment on that

651

:

audiobook in its in itself.

652

:

So, yeah, definitely spread your,

spread yourself as wide as possible.

653

:

John: There's probably only, only so

much business we can manage to work with.

654

:

We can't take it, or we need to,

need to share some of it around

655

:

with, with other people as well.

656

:

But yeah, it is, in terms of, people

will say this with podcasts and I, I,

657

:

I do sometimes across people who are

big names, consider big names in their

658

:

industry, and they won't come on podcasts

this amount of downloads, this amount

659

:

of audience, so, well, fair enough.

660

:

But, know, I think generally, and, and

my friend Alex and Felipo from Pub Match,

661

:

put it this way, if, if you are invited

to speak to a ring of 50 people, are

662

:

you likely go to that event where you

can potentially pick up an, even 10% of

663

:

that audience or maybe even more, from

an audience of 50 people as clients?

664

:

Yeah, probably you will.

665

:

So why would you not do that with

podcasting where you don't really, most of

666

:

the time you don't have to travel with it.

667

:

and you, you may be going out to

smaller audiences, but they're also

668

:

more likely to be audiences that are

specifically interested in you you

669

:

talk about if you're being selective

about the kinds of shows that you go on.

670

:

So, yeah, I do think it's, important to

consider this from, from those sides.

671

:

And I think a lot of people do.

672

:

You know, think I'd be getting people

like, Dan Priestly and Mike Mcic and Chris

673

:

Ducker and, and on the show, if, if it

wasn't for people recognising that there's

674

:

value in, in speaking to smaller audiences

675

:

Ginny Carter: Yeah, sure completely.

676

:

It's the same with box for sure.

677

:

John: I, I have a favourite chapter of

your book and, and I'm wondering if you

678

:

can, if you can guess what part it is.

679

:

You, you wrote, a wonderful chapter

about writing persuasively, and I

680

:

know, it's my favourite chapter.

681

:

You know, I'm a big influence and guy.

682

:

What inspired this show?

683

:

And, so I'd like to, and since

influence and persuasion is one of

684

:

the big things of everything that

I like to talk about, let's have a

685

:

little bit of a chat about writing

what does it, what does it look like?

686

:

What, what do people need

to be considering to be

687

:

writing more persuasively?

688

:

Ginny Carter: Yeah.

689

:

Well, I suppose before that, it's worth

reminding ourselves about why we want

690

:

to be persuasive in our book at all.

691

:

The whole purpose of writing a nonfiction

book is to, is to bring people over to

692

:

your point of view and to help them to see

new things, new ways of thinking, really.

693

:

And, people, people won't do

that just by you telling them.

694

:

they, they won't, we don't change

our minds about things just 'cause

695

:

somebody tells us that we're wrong and

we need to do it this way and that way.

696

:

It, that that's not the

way the human brain works.

697

:

so, writing persuasively can

take many different there's

698

:

many different ways of doing it.

699

:

And I'm sure one of the, the, I think

one of the things that's really nice

700

:

to do if you read a book that you,

that has been persuasive for you is

701

:

for you to take a step back from it and

think, well, how, how did they do that?

702

:

What, what did they do that,

that led me down that path?

703

:

And I think the leading on a idea

is, is a very strong one, because

704

:

what you're trying to do is

take your readers on a journey.

705

:

The the end result of which is,

is, is like the is really kind

706

:

of the, the only place that that

could make sense to them to end up.

707

:

So, being persuasive involves, for

a start being, being entertaining.

708

:

You know, this, this entertainment

that we talked about, so people

709

:

were, be if they're bored.

710

:

So including stories, anecdotes, lively

writing, being personal, bringing,

711

:

you'll bring your own personality out.

712

:

all of that is know, adds to the

entertainment value of the book.

713

:

but what I think is really helpful is

to have a kind of structural persuasion

714

:

that goes all the way through.

715

:

So, and I didn't, I didn't

come up with this framework.

716

:

It is something that already exists.

717

:

but it's, why, what, how, what if.

718

:

And so, what you need to do first

is explain to people why, why what

719

:

you're about to tell 'em is important.

720

:

Then you tell 'em what it is,

then you tell 'em how to do it.

721

:

And then what if is kind of, well,

what would happen in the real

722

:

world if you did all of this?

723

:

And what you're doing is you are

taking them on that journey there.

724

:

and what I, what some people do, I've

seen when I work with coaches, when I

725

:

coach people to write their books, is

it's quite a, a kind of common thing to

726

:

just kind of write stuff as it occurs

to you, or the, then there's this,

727

:

then there's that, then there's that.

728

:

Oh, and then there's another thing.

729

:

and what you're not doing is then

joining the dots for your reader

730

:

and leading them on that journey

that ends up in the place that.

731

:

John: Yeah.

732

:

Yeah.

733

:

I mean, now I've come across that same

structure for public speaking training.

734

:

I remember my very first public

speaking official training.

735

:

we were taught that as the, the

format structure for, for, for public

736

:

speaking and, I think it's lady

called Be McKeen, be Denise McCowen

737

:

Ginny Carter: Okay.

738

:

You right, I should.

739

:

John: she, she, she, she,

that, she that, that formula.

740

:

And I think it was based on

the cold learning styles that.

741

:

But even though there's a lot of

dispute over whether those learning

742

:

styles mean anything much, the structure

actually works really, really well.

743

:

And so that's, I of indisputable in

terms of how you structure information.

744

:

That's just a really,

really useful tool to have.

745

:

And, and if have that in mind, you can

probably write about, just about anything.

746

:

You can probably get up and speak about,

just about anything if you go through

747

:

those four different elements, which

is a, which is a great way to do it.

748

:

One, one of the things you did mention,

just quickly hit on mention a bit about,

749

:

about grammar, spelling, and punctuation

in that writing persuasively bit as well.

750

:

And I, I certainly find, and maybe I'm

a bit of a grammar Nazi, I don't know,

751

:

but I, I certainly sometimes when I'm

reading books that if they are spelt

752

:

badly, if the punctuation is terrible,

it takes me out of it for a moment.

753

:

I can't help but focus on the mistakes.

754

:

And I know it's human nature, that we

focus more on what's wrong than what's

755

:

but, what impact does that

have on people's, authority

756

:

and impact as an author, do you

757

:

Ginny Carter: oh, well, hugely because

it, it, I, I know some people might

758

:

think this is a bit snobby, but it kind

of makes you look uneducated, I think.

759

:

and, and the reason that people

respect authors is because they have

760

:

the intellect to, to write a book.

761

:

So it kind of just takes away from that.

762

:

But I think more importantly actually,

thing that you just referred to about

763

:

that it takes you outta the book.

764

:

it's a bit like, I think in the book I

describe it, I give it analogy a bit.

765

:

Like, if you're watching a film and

you notice that, that there's, there's

766

:

a, that the continuity isn't quite

right or there's a bit, there's a

767

:

bit that doesn't see quite, or you

notice there's a plot, a hole in the

768

:

plot that you just spotted all that.

769

:

And it, all it does is it, it, instead

of you kind of almost believing you're

770

:

in this, movie, know this story, you

suddenly realise you're outside of

771

:

it and you're critiquing it, and then

you just lost all engagement with it.

772

:

You, you're not being persuaded, you're

not, and you're not being influenced.

773

:

You, you are just kind of turned

into a sort of a book critic really

774

:

for, for, for a second or two.

775

:

So, so I think that's important,

but at the same time, if people feel

776

:

a bit insecure about their grammar

and spelling and so on, you know,

777

:

you kind of just have an editor

to help you with that side of it.

778

:

So it's something that's

completely get over.

779

:

It's have to be prepared to invest in

the help, you know, you get it right.

780

:

But I mean, I think everyone does that.

781

:

Even professional authors.

782

:

John: And even then, people still

gonna find some grammatical errors or

783

:

spelling errors somewhere along the line.

784

:

I mean, you know, I don't think anyone

demands perfection, but if you start

785

:

seeing a lot of it, it's a bit like for

me, you know, most of my work and, and

786

:

Macron over the last, 10, 12 years has

been a lot of public speaking work and

787

:

helping people present themselves better.

788

:

And, and so if somebody goes up on a

stage all ums ahs, it's like, well,

789

:

you could still be a good speaker

with a lot of ums and ahs, but if it's

790

:

too much of it, it does start to look

like you don't really feel confident

791

:

about what you're saying and that you

don't really know it because you are

792

:

having to really pull it out from the

deepest, darkest recesses of your mind.

793

:

And so being able to at least reduce

that or perhaps eliminate those,

794

:

sort what those little glitches

in our speaking does make us sound

795

:

professional, more confident, and

being able to put those sort of pauses

796

:

in whilst you're speaking as well.

797

:

And that you are, I guess this

is important as a writer as well.

798

:

The important conversation going on is

the conversation in the audience's mind.

799

:

Ginny Carter: Yeah, I, I think it's a

great, that the professional approach

800

:

to speaking and the professional

approach to writing that the, the,

801

:

the, the, the kind of glitches in

the writing of the equivalent of the

802

:

ums and ahs in the, in the speaking.

803

:

Yeah.

804

:

That's interesting.

805

:

We're putting it.

806

:

John: It's, it's a nice

way to think about it.

807

:

Well, thank, thank you in, in indulging

me for talking about my, my favourite,

808

:

my favourite chapter of your book as

somebody who, likes to think of himself

809

:

as a, as a bit of a, pro in influence

and persuasion and, and know we don't, we

810

:

don't have all day to talk like this, but

I, I, I do really, really enjoy your book.

811

:

And I'm wondering, just, just

quickly, I'll ask you about podcasts.

812

:

Like, this is, you appearing on a podcast

now, but is that something you see

813

:

value in as an author and say, oh, this

is a good way to be talking about your

814

:

Ginny Carter: oh, completely.

815

:

I mean, I, I've been on various podcast

shows to, to talk about my book, but

816

:

of talking about my book, talking

about my expertise, and, which is in

817

:

the book, it's, you know, nobody wants

to hear a sales pitch for somebody's

818

:

book from beginning to end of a podcast.

819

:

I, I've really enjoyed it and

I think for me, I mean, I'm,

820

:

I'm not a speaker as such.

821

:

I mean, I, I've done a little bit,

but I'm not a speaker and I don't

822

:

really aim to do a lot of speaking.

823

:

For me, being interviewed on a podcast

is a really nice being able to have

824

:

a verbal conversation with somebody,

get, get my message out there, without

825

:

having to feel like I'm standing on the

stage, being the centre of attention.

826

:

For some people like me, you know, it's

a really, really good thing to do.

827

:

but I think as well, podcasts and

books are just very complimentary.

828

:

I mean, you're about your expertise, and

it, it's all just kind of, it's all just

829

:

all part of the overall mix, isn't it?

830

:

It's there's, you don't separate

out all the different things you do.

831

:

They're not put into pods.

832

:

They all kind of merge together.

833

:

And podcasts a part of

834

:

John: I think it's becoming a much

more common part of people's book

835

:

marketing plans now than perhaps it had

been even just a couple of years ago.

836

:

So, for me that's, that's great to

see it, and I, and I welcome it.

837

:

I, I love talking about these

sorts of things on the show.

838

:

I, I wonder, and we, people can go

and check out your book certainly,

839

:

and there's gonna be a link

to that in, in the show notes.

840

:

And I wonder how else they could get

in touch with you if they want to know

841

:

more about you, what you do, how you

can help them, what's the best way

842

:

for 'em to find out more about you?

843

:

Ginny Carter: Well, the best way

really is to go to my website,

844

:

so that's ginny carter.co

845

:

uk.

846

:

that's GINY, Carter.

847

:

blog on there.

848

:

So I know quite a lot of people who,

go to my website, enjoy reading my

849

:

blog, and, gives people a sense

for what I think and how I ride, you

850

:

know, which I is important for people.

851

:

and then you can connect with

me on, on LinkedIn and Twitter.

852

:

I got the links on there as well.

853

:

John: Yeah, if you want to see our,

our Wordle successes and failures,

854

:

check in with us both on Twitter,

855

:

Ginny Carter: probably got more

interesting to things to do.

856

:

John: we, we, we post, we post, a

bit more than just Wordle results

857

:

on, on Twitter for sure, but we

certainly have some fun there.

858

:

but fantastic.

859

:

I, aside from your own book, I know

you read a lot of books about writing,

860

:

another books as well, so I'm wondering

if I came to you and asked for a book

861

:

recommendation, one or two, what are the

books that you would recommend as being

862

:

ones that have had a, a big impact on you?

863

:

Ginny Carter: Yeah, sure.

864

:

Well, I've got a couple here,

which I've just got on my desk.

865

:

so the first one is I, I love

reading books about storytelling.

866

:

Storytelling is an endlessly

fascinating topic for me.

867

:

I'm sure lots of speakers,

would share that.

868

:

and there's a woman called Lisa Cron,

that's CRON, and she's written a couple of

869

:

books on storytelling, the most recent is

Story or Die, which sounds quite dramatic.

870

:

and it's really talking about, why

stories are so important, but talking

871

:

about 'em as ways of persuading and

changing people's points of view, which is

872

:

obviously very relevant to this podcast.

873

:

And, she, what she does is she talks about

how you can, how you can target people's

874

:

inner resistance to changing their about

something through the creation of the

875

:

kind of story that's told in the right

way, whether verbally, through film,

876

:

video speaking or, or in the written form.

877

:

I just found it absolutely

fascinating really well.

878

:

So, so that's the book I'd recommend.

879

:

and then the other one, which

is more of a classic, but one I

880

:

often recommend to people is, Made

To Stick by Chip and Dan Heath.

881

:

And the reason I love that

is because, reasons really.

882

:

One, I think, again, it's very

relevant to all authors if you're

883

:

wanting to people and change

their point of view through a book.

884

:

the whole topic of the book is about

ideas that stick and what makes them stick

885

:

and, and, and what makes them powerful.

886

:

but also the book is written

in a really great way.

887

:

It's just full of stories.

888

:

Really engaging.

889

:

I mean, they practise what they preach in

terms of the way they've written the book.

890

:

So if you want a great example of a

book that's highly readable, both in

891

:

terms of emotional engagement, but

also, you know, credibility in terms of

892

:

research the hard stuff that the hard

facts and feeders they put into it.

893

:

that's a really good, good one to read.

894

:

John: I recommend both myself.

895

:

Amazing and, let, let me ask you

then, what is your superpower?

896

:

What is your superpower?

897

:

Ginny Carter: Oh.

898

:

I think, I think my superpower is that

I write, clearly and persuasively,

899

:

uh, about that.

900

:

That's.

901

:

the, that's the offer

902

:

to people, you know,

that's my gift, I guess.

903

:

John: A great, a great superpower to have.

904

:

Well, I, I'm gonna hold up your, your book

here for people who want to see the cover.

905

:

It may be a bit close your business,

your book is, is your book and I

906

:

highly to go and check it out.

907

:

And, there'll be a link for you to

go and buy it in the show notes.

908

:

I, I've thoroughly enjoyed it.

909

:

I'm pretty sure you will too.

910

:

And you get a lot of value from

it, especially if you are thinking

911

:

about it or those failed attempts

at trying to write a book.

912

:

This is gonna be the one that makes

the difference for you, I reckon.

913

:

I, I really enjoyed this conversation

with you and I wanna ask you, if there's

914

:

one thing about everything else that hope

people will take away from conversation

915

:

today, what would you like that to be?

916

:

Ginny Carter: I think it's that

before you write book, think about

917

:

what you want to achieve with it.

918

:

It's such a kind of basic and obvious

question, but it's one that many people

919

:

don't ask themselves because the answer to

that question will then guide you in all

920

:

the other that you make about the book.

921

:

so it's very important to know what

do I wanna get out of this book?

922

:

What do I want to do?

923

:

John: Fantastic.

924

:

Well, great, great advice.

925

:

And Ginny Carter, I just wanna

say a big thank you for coming

926

:

and being my guest today.

927

:

I really

928

:

Ginny Carter: you.

929

:

I really enjoyed it.

930

:

John: Well, thanks for tuning into

the show for this bonus episode.

931

:

I hope it's been useful with Ginny Carter

and I have to say I did love her book,

932

:

your Business, your book, and I hope

that you've come away with a clearer

933

:

sense of what a book can do for you and

your speaking business and what to think

934

:

through before you even get started.

935

:

I do recommend getting hold of

your own copy of Ginny's book.

936

:

You can get it in paperback on

ebook or in audiobook as well.

937

:

And you can find out more about

GI and her work@ginnycarter.co.uk,

938

:

gi, with a g Ginny Carter, two

Ns, G-I-N-N-Y-C-A-R-T-E-R . co.

939

:

Uk.

940

:

And I'll put the book in the website

links into the show notes for you as well.

941

:

Now, I said that I would share with you

my fast book strategy and I have been

942

:

putting together a book and I didn't

just want to say to chat GPT or Claude

943

:

or whatever, Hey, write me a book.

944

:

But I will also wanted

something a bit hands off.

945

:

The, the short story of this is I was

already working on a book, but I, I was

946

:

realising it was a much bigger exercise

than I thought it was going to be.

947

:

And so that's gonna take

months, maybe even a year or

948

:

so to get that book written.

949

:

And I'm planning to work on that too.

950

:

It's already started, but I wanted

something out quicker, something that

951

:

could be more hands off because I've

already got lots and lots of content and

952

:

having come across some strategies, I

things work with Taki Moore and, building

953

:

up my coaching side of my business, I

recognised that there was a Wealth of

954

:

Knowledge in podcast episodes and in

my newsletters and other places that I

955

:

could pull from to put together enough

information to make a valuable resource

956

:

of a book that would also relate into

the programme and experience that

957

:

I've already created for people with

the Known, Booked & Paid Blueprint.

958

:

And so Serious about Speaking Book

was born, it is called Serious About

959

:

Speaking the Business of Becoming

Known Books and Paid, and it is

960

:

gonna be available pretty soon.

961

:

Right now it's going out to some

pre-readers to make sure that is gonna be

962

:

well worth your time to check out as well.

963

:

'cause I don't just want to turn

out any odd rubbish, but the

964

:

process has simply been this.

965

:

Chat, GPT at least is now in a stage where

it was able to go through pretty much all

966

:

of my LinkedIn newsletter articles and

all of my podcast transcripts and pull out

967

:

all the relevant information and integrate

that with programme materials and other

968

:

stuff that I've already created for the

known, booked and paid blueprint to make

969

:

sure that I have a coherent and expansive

book about becoming known, booked,

970

:

and paid as a professional speaker.

971

:

And I didn't just want to write the

same sort of speaking books that

972

:

people have written before either.

973

:

I wanted this to have value, but to

use the knowledge that I already have

974

:

and have already shared that, you

know, is mostly just sitting around

975

:

in articles that people may, may or

may not ever go back and revisit and

976

:

podcast episodes similarly as well.

977

:

Putting all of that into

something now means that that

978

:

stuff is actually more usable.

979

:

I might even give people more reasons

to go and check out that order

980

:

material as well to get the full

specific articles and podcast episodes.

981

:

It took a fair bit of compiling and

then I was able to get chat g PT to

982

:

create a Google Doc for me, which

I was able to then go through the

983

:

chapters and the elements within

that and start proofreading it.

984

:

I did get chat GPT to try and create

some diagrams for the book for me,

985

:

some frameworks, they were awful, so

I had to go Google Gemini to do that.

986

:

But this is the process.

987

:

I'm gonna be talking about it a bit more

in an interview with my friend James.

988

:

It's like we're doing a quick

30 minute live stream this week.

989

:

If you wanna tune into that, it's

gonna be on LinkedIn on Friday.

990

:

That's Friday, the 2nd of October.

991

:

If you miss that, I'm probably gonna

put it out here on the podcast as well

992

:

as a little extra bonus for you so you

can get more information about the book

993

:

and my process in writing it as well.

994

:

But if you are an expert who already

has a wealth of material in maybe in

995

:

newsletters, maybe in emails, maybe

in podcasts, episodes, maybe that

996

:

you've been a guest on, or maybe

in interviews that you've done with

997

:

your own show or YouTube videos,

998

:

there's a good chance as an expert,

you already have a wealth of material.

999

:

If you do, and it's not currently really

being used for anything, why not make

:

00:51:35,214 --> 00:51:41,454

that more accessible to your audience

right now with examples of your knowledge

:

00:51:41,454 --> 00:51:47,934

and experience and expertise that could

become more relevant to them using what

:

00:51:47,934 --> 00:51:52,404

you've already created, rather than

having to keep reinventing the wheel

:

00:51:52,954 --> 00:51:56,554

and meaning you don't have to do

quite so much work in getting a book

:

00:51:56,554 --> 00:52:00,244

out because I say this to speakers

all the time that it's a really great

:

00:52:00,244 --> 00:52:03,424

thing to have a book, especially one

that's relevant to you and your work.

:

00:52:04,054 --> 00:52:06,094

But, uh, there's no point in

just getting a book out for

:

00:52:06,094 --> 00:52:07,414

the sake of getting a book out.

:

00:52:07,464 --> 00:52:11,334

And so it's not just a case of having

a book because you could just get AI

:

00:52:11,334 --> 00:52:15,384

to write that for you and self-publish

it, and you then have a book.

:

00:52:15,384 --> 00:52:19,944

But I think having a bad book is

not the kind of business card that

:

00:52:19,944 --> 00:52:21,744

you want to be leaving with people.

:

00:52:21,924 --> 00:52:25,704

Having a book that's at least worth

reading and contains your voice,

:

00:52:25,704 --> 00:52:29,574

your expertise and experience

far more valuable for them.

:

00:52:29,904 --> 00:52:32,224

So it's not a completely

hands off process.

:

00:52:32,224 --> 00:52:37,354

I will share that with you, but it's a

damn site quicker than writing a whole

:

00:52:37,354 --> 00:52:40,444

book from scratch and building out

all the chapters and everything else.

:

00:52:40,444 --> 00:52:44,674

So I highly recommend doing

something along those lines.

:

00:52:45,044 --> 00:52:48,854

If you are an expert right now and you

don't have a book to your name that's

:

00:52:48,854 --> 00:52:53,744

related to your topic and you have all

that content, you could start putting

:

00:52:53,744 --> 00:52:56,504

it to work for you right now and at

least maybe have an initial book.

:

00:52:56,504 --> 00:53:01,364

It doesn't need to be the authority

book, but it is gonna be something that

:

00:53:01,364 --> 00:53:07,404

potentially is gonna help you get booked

and build your credibility as a speaker.

:

00:53:08,649 --> 00:53:12,519

With all that said, if you are an

expert speaker who's building a more

:

00:53:12,519 --> 00:53:15,639

consistent speaking business, you can

find out more about known, book than

:

00:53:15,639 --> 00:53:20,222

paid at presentinfluence.com/kbpb

:

00:53:20,229 --> 00:53:23,799

and if you found this conversation

useful, do follow the show and

:

00:53:23,799 --> 00:53:26,409

share it with someone who's

thinking about writing a book or

:

00:53:26,409 --> 00:53:27,879

developing their speaking business.

:

00:53:28,479 --> 00:53:31,959

So until next time, go and do

something worth speaking about.

:

00:53:32,079 --> 00:53:32,539

See you then.

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About the Podcast

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Professional Speaking: Known. Booked. Paid.
Speaker Coaching for Expert Positioning & Keynotes with John A Ball

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About your host

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John Ball

John Ball is a keynote coach and professional speaker on a mission to help upcoming leaders master their communication, create impact and stand out as experts in their field.
John left the high life of his flying career to do something more meaningful to him and has since worked with several leading personal and professional development organisations as a lead coach and trainer.
The heart of everything John does involves helping people shift to personal responsibility and conscious awareness of how they show up and perform in every situation, whilst equipping them with the tools to be exceptional.
John also co-hosts The Coaching Clinic Podcast with his great friend and colleague Angie Besignano.
He lives in the beautiful city of Valencia, Spain with his husband and often visits the UK and US for speaking and training engagements. When he's not speaking or podcasting, he's likely to be out swimming, kayaking or enjoying time with friends.

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